The Energon Pub

by **wmpyr** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:58 am

HOLY!!!!!

skywarp2 that is the best looking TF I've ever seen and I don't even like OP. I don't like trucks. WOW, that makes everything I own look like turd of a maggot's earwax.

by **AlienQuiksilver** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:00 pm

rpetras wrote:
AlienQuiksilver wrote:Don't get me wrong, MP Prime is just insanely awesome. The truck mode just has noticable flaws. Bot mode, not 1 flaw to be found IMO.

I agree with Autobot when he said that the figure was designed with perfecting the bot mode in mind. It just had to be, it can't look any better.

Also, the transformation is even cartoon accurate.

I'll buy that.

IMO the MP line *should* strive towards toon accurate bot modes, with close approximations in alt mode. The seeker mold, has a pretty good balance between the alt and bot modes, with a few compromises on each, while the megatron has a very accurate gun mode and a lot of compromise in the bot mode. But I digress ...

With the G1 toys, they had much more accurate alt modes. They all looked like toy cars (or whatever) and then flip, flip, flip ... Oh look it can be a robot too. Very often the bots had only a passing resemblance to their on screen counterparts.

Those are very different design philosophies.

AlienQuiksilver wrote:With all of that accuracy going on ... something has to suffer.

Here's where I start to disagree I don't think anything really suffers, but when designing a transforming toy you generally need to pick one of the 2 modes to be the more accurate.
Movie leader prime is kind of the opposite of MP prime. A pretty dead on alt mode, but the bot mode (while still pretty cool) is more of an approximation of Prime's on-screen bot mode appearance.

AlienQuiksilver wrote:The wheels suck, but the suspension is freakishly awesome. The red flap on each side of the truck (lower/rear portion of the cab) is obviously there just to complete the box shape.

I don't have an issue with the wheels. Too small? look at the comparison images from the prev page. They look OK to me And the red flap, the one behind the wheels, does complete the cab, in the same way the lights or windows complete the cab.

If I had to tear apart one bit of MP prime, the black shoulder hinge really annoys me. They tried to disguise it, kind of as a window, but it just looks bad. Maybe they could have had an extra red flap 'o plastic over that, I dunno.

AlienQuiksilver wrote:The lone chair in the center of the cab, what's that all about? If you saw that in real life ... wouldn't you be like "WTF? Something is strange here!"

Alright, agreed, but it is still a toy, or at least a scale model. It also doesn't have an engine, but I'm not docking points for that either.

AlienQuiksilver wrote:Since the truck was an actual production model, they should've designed it to look exactly like it. (nod to MP Starscreams F-15 mode) If they did that, Freightliner has blueprints that Hasbro/Takara could've worked with ... instead of making it kinda look like the model. This idea is very arguable, because the G1 cartoon truck pretty much had the same flaws. They just transferred over to a newer figure.

Looking at MP Skywarp w/o his stickers applied ... looks just like a near perfect scale model to me. Anybody not knowing any better wouldn't even think it was a transformer.

Prime was never a production model truck. He may have been based on a real truck, but like BB, Jazz or any of those G1 toys they weren't exactly the same as the real world counterparts (licensing reasons and whatnot). He was a generalization of a cab-over truck, and not a specific peterbilt or freightliner or whatever.

Once you get to the toon, all the autobots get even more generic looking. Again, take a look at the ref pics on page 1 of this thread. The prime truck has differences from frame to frame. LOL Trying to build a real world toy from that reference is tough.

But I see your point, they could have used a specific truck as a guide. Personally I'm kind of glad they didn't.

Speaking of the MP seeker mold, he is awesome, but he to has compromises. The maligned leg kibble in bot mode, and even the underneath of the plane in alt mode are compromises to the "real world" look.

AlienQuiksilver wrote:With that said, Prime was the 1st of the MP line ... so they really just fine tuned it over the years.

If that were true Megs, as the latest MP design, would be better than prime. While better is a relative term, I don't think most folks would agree that he is.

AlienQuiksilver wrote:In conclusion, the crappy truck mode is still worth the awesomeness of bot mode ... easily. Ignore the truck flaws if you want, but they're still present.

The only flaw I see in the truck mode is the shape of the upper chest/front windows. (OK, and the shoulder thing I harped on earlier) In order to be more accurate to the toon's bot mode, the chest comes forward in the middle. Mostly noticeable right over the grill. Anyway, this kind of kills the smooth, flat "lines" normally associated with a cab-over truck's normal appearance.

Someone else mentioned that the legs need to retract closer to the body in truck mode. They do! It can be a bee-yatch to get them to retract, but in truck mode, the thigh should be retracted into the lower legs. Yea, there is still a little of the pelvis showing (ha ha, I said pelvis) but it should look like this: http://www.seibertron.com/toys/fullsize ... 1&image=33

WOW, that's a lot of typing! But in the end, I think this is all just nitpicking. LOL

Could improvements be made? Yea, I guess, sure. But the flaws are so very, very minor IMO (and judging by what you wrote, I think yours too, AQ).
MP prime, in both modes is still one bad@$$ motha trucker!!!

Great additions to what I wrote. Just a couple things. Prime was based on a production model.(It's what I meant, but you took my statement which lacked details ... literally)

He was a hodgepodge of the late 70's/early 80's COE. Peterbilt had them, Kenworth, Freightliner as well. Very popular body style for that time period.

As for trying to figure out which model he is most like ... I exclude the Kenworth, because the shape of the front bumper is square. Peterbilt and Freightliner have the correct shape bumpers. What do you think?

Now movie prime IS a Peterbilt, so they could have used that brand for a reason? Who knows ... it's just my deductive reasoning kickin' in.

Now, you did mention all of this ... I know. My qualm is with the lack of doors and detail of the truck. No hiding of the shoulder joint. Think of MP Starscream, and how he has a cockpit, radar. Prime doesn't have that level of detail. He doesn't accurately represent a real truck like the jet mold represents an F-15.

Like I said, MP's have been fine tuned as time went along. I can't complain too much because of this fact.

Cascadia stated this on page 1 and she was right. I'll attach a pic of a 1979 Peterbilt COE. If prime wasn't designed with that truck in mind ... hmmm ...

Also, notice the wheels in comparison to the front grill ... then compare it to the MP prime pics from page 1. MUCH taller. The toys wheels are maybe a 65% representation of what they should be.

But hey, then the fig would look funny in bot mode ... with that added bulk. They are close enough. BUT, lol ... I can't help the fact that it bothers the piss out of me.

And the red plastic flap. You are correct. Something has to be there to complete the truck. The little red flap they came up with wasn't all that ingenius if you ask me.

Very good discussion.

News Credits: 4 · by **Bumblethumper** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:57 pm

Some people are quite certain Prime is supposed to be a Freightliner.

But this Kenworth looks pretty close to me:

The differences between the various models all seem minor enough that for practical purposes, it could be either of them, and it's hard to find a solid match. It would be very cool if to see one up in the right colours with Autobot markings.

Here's a few I found that seem close:

A Freightliner COE (with sleeper)

A Peterbilt 352 'Pacemaker'

News Credits: 1 · by **Sherade** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:27 pm

Bumblethumper wrote:Flat nosed trucks are the norm pretty much everywhere else. You won't see many long-nosed trucks outside the U.S.

Actually, I didn't kmow that. I thought they were standard almost anywhere. good little tidbit there.

News Credits: 4 · by **Bumblethumper** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:51 pm

Well in Europe and probably Asia anyway, everything tends to be a bit smaller. - We just don't have the space.

Long nose trucks like Movie Prime are supposed to be better to drive, but apparently there used to be some sort of length restrictions which made cabovers were more common across America back then.

by **wmpyr** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:16 pm

that infamous black OP repaint sc... should have been the truck from
the speilberg movie the duel

and OP could have been a truck from the Sly movie...

Over the Top

pssst btw, have you heard of BumbleBees long lost alcoholic sister?

BUMBLEBUHT

she's a cutey :grin:

by **Auto Bot** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:37 am

The MP toy's gas tank is way too small, and moved too far to the back.

Imagine that size of a gas tank for a real truck. He'd probably go 20 miles, and he'd have to go fill up again.

News Credits: 1 · by **rpetras** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:17 pm

Bumblethumper wrote:Some people are quite certain Prime is supposed to be a Freightliner.

But this Kenworth looks pretty close to me:

The differences between the various models all seem minor enough that for practical purposes, it could be either of them, and it's hard to find a solid match. It would be very cool if to see one up in the right colours with Autobot markings.

Here's a few I found that seem close:

A Freightliner COE (with sleeper)

A Peterbilt 352 'Pacemaker'

Ooooo good pics!!!

I think AQS is right, Prime's an amalgam of trucks, but dang if the Peterbilt isn't reallllllly close.

The other 2 have a slightly longer sleeper cab. But, yea, they are all close too.

I also have the pic of MP prime from page 1 for comparison:

See what I mean about the little "point" to his chest area above the grill? Then the lights are indented a bit.

These are the bits I noticed. I forgive them a bit, because, as I said somewhere, you need to design one of the modes, bot or alt, make it look right, and design from there. G1 prime had a more convincing truck mode, but his bot mode wasn't as defined as his on-screen appearance. It's a trade off.

Side by side I see what you guys mean about the wheels. A quick bit of measuring shows they are about 75% of the height from the peterbilt.

Now I see the gas tank too. D@MM!+ Now that's gonna bug me :-)

I'll pretend he's got more tank storage in those massive legs. Yea, that's it!

But the ladder flap thingy behind the front wheel is present on the Kenworth. Yup, he looks like a mash-up of trucks alright!

AlienQuiksilver wrote:Now, you did mention all of this ... I know. My qualm is with the lack of doors and detail of the truck. No hiding of the shoulder joint. Think of MP Starscream, and how he has a cockpit, radar. Prime doesn't have that level of detail. He doesn't accurately represent a real truck like the jet mold represents an F-15.

Like I said, MP's have been fine tuned as time went along. I can't complain too much because of this fact.

It's a good point, but with only 3 MP molds out there, it's tough to say if this is a trend. Megs doesn't contain any of this type of thing, though some of his early prototype drawings show he was supposed to have opening panels and stuff.

And the Jet design has some otherwise wasted space in the nosecone, though the airbrakes are an especially nice touch! And Prime does have the communicator panels and matrix chamber, so that's something, right?

But the original point is well taken, he is clearly designed to look better in Bot mode.

AlienQuiksilver wrote:Very good discussion.

Agreed, good discussion. I learned some fun facts too!!!

News Credits: 4 · by **Bumblethumper** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:33 pm

I should note that searching through images on the net, there are so many variations on these trucks that things like sleeper compartments can be present or absent on any of them. I picked the ones that to me seemed closest. 2 of them are models, so I don't know about accuracy.

Just now, looking at my old G1 Prime, and comparing the detailing with the grill of the Freightliner, I can see why people feel it is the closest. But I'm not a stickler about these things, any of them would make a fantastic Prime as far as I'm concerned.

Perhaps for the Masterpiece, they chose to go with an amalgam to avoid licensing. Details like how the windows stick out over the grill I haven't seen in any real-life trucks though.