The Energon Pub

The way I see it,all the super tiny TF toys for DOTM ruined the toy line sales in stores world wide.

It seems like DEJA-VU of the 1989 micromasters & play sets. the 1990 action masters & their transforming vechicles. from my stand point these put the final nails in the coffin for the TF G-1 USA Toy line in America.

From my Opinion,the DOTM toy line is literally being over run by super tiny TF toys & play sets. in the Lengends robot sizes,scout/basics robot sizes. play sets that can interract with the legends & basic/scout/commanders/ha basics sized TF toys. I'm not referring to Deluxes as being super tiny TF toys.

The problem I see here is their just wasn't enough room in the DOTM toy line budget for that many new mold deluxes,new mold voyagers,new mold leaders & new mold $29.99 HA toys.

Getting a entire DOTM Toy line of only 6 new mold voyagers is just pure awful & a nightmare for various TF fans that collect the bigger sized TF toys & don't like thus don't buy the tiny TF toys.

I suspect the DOTM Toy lines sales are doing bad in stores. because the majority like the bigger sized TF toys more. the 2007 movie & ROTF TF toy lines sales were stronger & sold better in stores because we got less tiny TF toys & more bigger sized TF toys.

Actually, the so called tiny TF is doing better sales than the bigger one here. Parents like it because it's cheaper (for the children), and the children like it because well, it's transformer!

I myself prefer the smaller size because of how easy I can set the battlefield to display them

The micromasters had the unfortunate bad timing of getting released at the series' tail end of popularity. Though G1 had many issues concerning their size reference, the Micromasters fit perfectly with the bigger figs.

I kind of agree with deathy about all the size types being released.....kind of dilutes the series though if you reference the G1 series, Optimus, being the most popular character, ironically kind of was a slow mover in sales due to his price point back then.Again a clash of the bottom line over quality.

They do be doing well.I dont think it ruined the toyline sales.

id have to agree deathy.
with multiple price points at or around 10 bucks the smaller scout "commanders" and ha basics meant more purchases for sure but their inclusion limited the sale of their larger counterparts. example ive got most of the movie line in cb form but very few in other scales.

for parents its a matter of price 45 dollars for leader bb,ih, and sentinel or a $5-$7.99 version the little guys tend to win out.

the only thing id disagree with is worldwide sales numbers as we just dont know.

No, they've existed since the Cybertron line and they've been doing great. The one thing that ruined the DOTM toyline is the fact that it's a DOTM toyline. Children's parents have already gone through the Transformers phase with '07 and ROTF, making DOTM sort of redundant. Didn't help that the majority of figures are subpar.

I think the way you see it is incorrect, deathy.

Blurrz wrote:No, they've existed since the Cybertron line and they've been doing great. The one thing that ruined the DOTM toyline is the fact that it's a DOTM toyline. Children's parents have already gone through the Transformers phase with '07 and ROTF, making DOTM sort of redundant. Didn't help that the majority of figures are subpar.

Yes,the tiny legends existed since the cybertron toy line. but never in these high volume new molds doses before. for the dotm toy line 80% of the toys are super tiny legends/basics/scouts/commanders/$29.99 HA basics & cyberverse play sets.

Yes,I agree that the DOTM new mold deluxes & voyagers are inferior to the new molds deluxes & voyagers that the 2007 movie & rotf toy lines had.

I suspect all the available resources,talent & money went into making the super tiny DOTM toys as awesome as they could make them. leaving next to nothing left to create the bigger sized DOTM Toys with.

GuyIncognito wrote:I think the way you see it is incorrect, deathy.

Thats your opinion.

I never said what I wrote in this thread was fact. it's my mere opinion based of me being a veteran TF fan since Generation one in the 1980's.

I was just citing a few failed examples Hasbro did in the past & comparing them against the failed hasbro Dotm toy line. my examples were 1989 micromasters & action masters were a sales failure just like all the super tiny DOTM toys are in 2011 like the Dotm legends,cyberverse,commanders,scouts,basics,HA Baics,play sets.

This is why I want this abonomation of the DOTM TF toy line to end & stop making anymore new molds starting in January 2012. I'm ready to embrace the TF Prime new molds in 2012. I want all the available resources,money,time,energy,man power,artist & talent solely involved in making the TF Prime toys as awesome & full blown toys as they can be.
I Also want the 2012 year see the return of new mold generations TF toys in the basics,deluxes,voyagers,ultras & leader sized toy levels.

Have we seen sales figures yet for DOTM? I can't remember seeing any.

Mkall wrote:Have we seen sales figures yet for DOTM? I can't remember seeing any.

Various TF fans who live in all the states of america & Around the world are reporting they visit their stores that sell DOTM toys. and the dotm toys aren't selling that great,their major pegs & shelf warmers--->THIS IS ALL THE PROOF I need.

deathy wrote:

Mkall wrote:Have we seen sales figures yet for DOTM? I can't remember seeing any.

Various TF fans who live in all the states of america & Around the world are reporting they visit their stores that sell DOTM toys. and the dotm toys aren't selling that great,their major pegs & shelf warmers--->THIS IS ALL THE PROOF I need.

Personally, I prefer numbers over anecdotes.

Mkall wrote:

deathy wrote:

Mkall wrote:Have we seen sales figures yet for DOTM? I can't remember seeing any.

Various TF fans who live in all the states of america & Around the world are reporting they visit their stores that sell DOTM toys. and the dotm toys aren't selling that great,their major pegs & shelf warmers--->THIS IS ALL THE PROOF I need.

Personally, I prefer numbers over anecdotes.

This. Toys not moving from pegs or shelves does not equal low sales, it could just as well be over-ordered stock moving at a decent pace, without anything new showing up.

Mkall wrote:

deathy wrote:

Mkall wrote:Have we seen sales figures yet for DOTM? I can't remember seeing any.

Various TF fans who live in all the states of america & Around the world are reporting they visit their stores that sell DOTM toys. and the dotm toys aren't selling that great,their major pegs & shelf warmers--->THIS IS ALL THE PROOF I need.

Personally, I prefer numbers over anecdotes.

Personally I'd trust the fans anytime over the big corporations.

whose to say,those corporate sales numbers are accurate. since their not being researched by others,who's to say their accurate or true.

deathy wrote:

Mkall wrote:

deathy wrote:

Mkall wrote:Have we seen sales figures yet for DOTM? I can't remember seeing any.

Various TF fans who live in all the states of america & Around the world are reporting they visit their stores that sell DOTM toys. and the dotm toys aren't selling that great,their major pegs & shelf warmers--->THIS IS ALL THE PROOF I need.

Personally, I prefer numbers over anecdotes.

Personally I'd trust the fans anytime over the big corporations.

whose to say,those corporate sales numbers are accurate. since their not being researched by others,who's to say their accurate or true.

They have to be accurate by law. Period. You wouldn't lie to the IRS about your income, now would you? And it's fans with their rumors and especially their assumptions that are less reliable.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

deathy wrote:

Mkall wrote:

deathy wrote:

Mkall wrote:Have we seen sales figures yet for DOTM? I can't remember seeing any.

Various TF fans who live in all the states of america & Around the world are reporting they visit their stores that sell DOTM toys. and the dotm toys aren't selling that great,their major pegs & shelf warmers--->THIS IS ALL THE PROOF I need.

Personally, I prefer numbers over anecdotes.

Personally I'd trust the fans anytime over the big corporations.

whose to say,those corporate sales numbers are accurate. since their not being researched by others,who's to say their accurate or true.

They have to be accurate by law. Period. You wouldn't lie to the IRS about your income, now would you? And it's fans with their rumors and especially their assumptions that are less reliable.

you gotta be kidding me,people cheat on their IRS income taxes all the time. until thet eventually get caught & get audited.

The big corporations are the biggest offenders & cheaters on their IRS income taxes.

Corporate greed has run wild & that's why we currently have huge protest groups assembling all around america like on wallstreet,DC & it's gaining force around the world.

CAPITALISM IS WORSE THAN COMMUNISM. At the very least communist russia gave you a job when you reached a certain age of maturity. un-like america where you can go months/years without finding a job or someone willing to hire you.

deathy wrote:you gotta be kidding me,people cheat on their IRS income taxes all the time. until thet eventually get caught & get audited.

The big corporations are the biggest offenders & cheaters on their IRS income taxes.

Corporate greed has run wild & that's why we currently have huge protest groups assembling all around america like on wallstreet,DC & it's gaining force around the world.

CAPITALISM IS WORSE THAN COMMUNISM. At the very least communist russia gave you a job when you reached a certain age of maturity. un-like america where you can go months/years without finding a job or someone willing to hire you.

So you're willing to put the word of a bunch of people who are grumpy because they aren't getting the figures they want from shelves over that of the toy's manufacturer?

You are indeed a cynical person

Deathy, fans have been reporting that movie toys don't sell since 2007, and yet the movie lines are always the hottest toys of their year.
The giant toystore corporations say so, and the tiny little toystores say so too. If movie toys weren't selling, do you really think that giant corporations which only care about profits, would continually produce and offer them and then claim they where selling well? If you do, you have no idea of how busines works.

It's not ruining it....I'd say adding to or giving another option.

Can't buy a Powerglide or Hatchet in the bigger scale so I'll get one in the smaller scale.

It offers a few things.

Different Characters that are not available in the bigger scale.
Playsets.
Cheaper for the younger kids.
Scale works better w/ some of the TF's that are bigger but don't fit w/ the bigger ones. Example Demolisher....way out of scale w/ the bigger TF's, but fits about right w/ the legends. Stratosphere, and even Devy.....

Works the other way too though.... Legends Ravage and Wheelie were better scale then there deluxe counterparts.

But in no way ruins the series. Probably gives some of the lower income families an opportunity to give there kids a chance to own some, bargain hunters, ect. If people like the bigger size, there going to skip over these no matter what and vice versa.

dirk2243 wrote:It's not ruining it....I'd say adding to or giving another option.

Can't buy a Powerglide or Hatchet in the bigger scale so I'll get one in the smaller scale.

It offers a few things.

Different Characters that are not available in the bigger scale.
Playsets.
Cheaper for the younger kids.
Scale works better w/ some of the TF's that are bigger but don't fit w/ the bigger ones. Example Demolisher....way out of scale w/ the bigger TF's, but fits about right w/ the legends. Stratosphere, and even Devy.....

Works the other way too though.... Legends Ravage and Wheelie were better scale then there deluxe counterparts.

But in no way ruins the series. Probably gives some of the lower income families an opportunity to give there kids a chance to own some, bargain hunters, ect. If people like the bigger size, there going to skip over these no matter what and vice versa.

It ruined it because it prevented the bigger sized DOTM other new molds to get created. because the super tiny DOTM TF toys got created instead in their place.

deathy wrote:

dirk2243 wrote:It's not ruining it....I'd say adding to or giving another option.

Can't buy a Powerglide or Hatchet in the bigger scale so I'll get one in the smaller scale.

It offers a few things.

Different Characters that are not available in the bigger scale.
Playsets.
Cheaper for the younger kids.
Scale works better w/ some of the TF's that are bigger but don't fit w/ the bigger ones. Example Demolisher....way out of scale w/ the bigger TF's, but fits about right w/ the legends. Stratosphere, and even Devy.....

Works the other way too though.... Legends Ravage and Wheelie were better scale then there deluxe counterparts.

But in no way ruins the series. Probably gives some of the lower income families an opportunity to give there kids a chance to own some, bargain hunters, ect. If people like the bigger size, there going to skip over these no matter what and vice versa.

It ruined it because it prevented the bigger sized DOTM other new molds to get created. because the super tiny DOTM TF toys got created instead in their place.

I think your real issue lies w/ Hasbro, not these lil guys. Makeing these did not "STOP" the bigger ones from being made. Hasbro could very well have done these, but opted not too. Especially since these legends have been out since the 07 film and earlier.

It's not like Hasbro doesn't have the $$$, the Technology, and the resources to do so....just opted not to. And i'm not buying into any ....."they ran out of time" bs. They could run these into the ground if they wanted to.....

deathy wrote:

dirk2243 wrote:It's not ruining it....I'd say adding to or giving another option.

Can't buy a Powerglide or Hatchet in the bigger scale so I'll get one in the smaller scale.

It offers a few things.

Different Characters that are not available in the bigger scale.
Playsets.
Cheaper for the younger kids.
Scale works better w/ some of the TF's that are bigger but don't fit w/ the bigger ones. Example Demolisher....way out of scale w/ the bigger TF's, but fits about right w/ the legends. Stratosphere, and even Devy.....

Works the other way too though.... Legends Ravage and Wheelie were better scale then there deluxe counterparts.

But in no way ruins the series. Probably gives some of the lower income families an opportunity to give there kids a chance to own some, bargain hunters, ect. If people like the bigger size, there going to skip over these no matter what and vice versa.

It ruined it because it prevented the bigger sized DOTM other new molds to get created. because the super tiny DOTM TF toys got created instead in their place.

So the Cyberverse line ruined the DOTM toylike for you, not from a profits standpoint. You want bigger toys, but the smaller ones are selling. Knowing many parents, the smaller the toy's price point the better, so most do not get ther children anything bigger than a deluxe (and even deluxe's are a stretch).

They would rather buy the smaller toys because their children still find them fun, they are cheap enough to buy several of, and they have very few parts that can break. The smaller figures allow families to get more value for their money ... kids can own a bunch movie cast of characters to recreate battles without spending hundreds of dollars.

Not to mention, you're argument that the smaller toys got created instead of creating larger versions ... well what if they never planned to create a larger version of the toy at all?

deathy wrote:

Blurrz wrote:No, they've existed since the Cybertron line and they've been doing great. The one thing that ruined the DOTM toyline is the fact that it's a DOTM toyline. Children's parents have already gone through the Transformers phase with '07 and ROTF, making DOTM sort of redundant. Didn't help that the majority of figures are subpar.

Yes,the tiny legends existed since the cybertron toy line. but never in these high volume new molds doses before. for the dotm toy line 80% of the toys are super tiny legends/basics/scouts/commanders/$29.99 HA basics & cyberverse play sets.

Yes,I agree that the DOTM new mold deluxes & voyagers are inferior to the new molds deluxes & voyagers that the 2007 movie & rotf toy lines had.

I suspect all the available resources,talent & money went into making the super tiny DOTM toys as awesome as they could make them. leaving next to nothing left to create the bigger sized DOTM Toys with.

C'mon deathy, if you've been a fan since the 80's, then you should know much better than this. Big and small Transformers have co-existed peacefully since the existence of Transformers, and primarily bought to the front with Armada in '01. The commercial success of this and a good mix of big and small Transformers is the reason why Transformers has been as popular as it's been in the past decade.

Just because you don't like collecting small Transformers doesn't mean they're a detriment to this franchise. I've been reading your posts in the past few months and you're trying to fixate something as the cause of the decline of the DOTM toyline. First it was the economy, then it was the scalpers, and now it's small Transformers toys. No, just no. Your lack of patience in the grand scheme of things isn't what a fan since the 80's would have.

For every collector of bigger Transformers, there's another who collects the small ones. I've been collecting mini-cons since '01-Present, and I know more than hundreds who have a passion for not just the big, but the smaller Transformers too.

Your concept of smaller Transformers taking up the production space is a bit of a farce too. Sure they have more primary numbers than the bigger figures, but their longevity is outstanding, they keep getting repainted and repainted, and that in itself is 1/4th the cost of making a new figure... and it's already much cheaper for them to make smaller figures than bigger ones.

In all honesty, just wait it out. This line was released on the heavy side, we had the first three waves before the movie was even released.

I would say if anything did damage to the the deluxe and voyager class figures it was Mechtech. Love or hate the weapons, you can't deny that they downsized and cheapened the actual figures to make those weapons part of the pack. IMO this did more then the cyberverse figures did, as it was mentioned by Blurrz that the figures became subpar, mostly to accommodate those lumps of plastic I would guess.

@ Blurzz

Too many repaints. If that's another issue I want to raise against the legends class. I'd have wanted to start a new thread about this trend. It dilutes the brand imho.

For example, you have the original orange Wheelie. Why not keep releasing it in the same color. Why repaint it into another color, repackage it into another character( another set of "new" box pictures means additional costs and also a 50/50 chance it may or may not sell) and sell it again. Sure completists would go for it and the occasional casual consumer, but that leaves a lot of unsold stock (we have a lot of those in my country). Why not concentrate on an already established character?

Isn't that the same tack Hasbro is doing with their movie line? Slap in an already established name on some new ( various class size)unknown mold?

Unlike deathy who you mentioned as trying to explain why the movie toys are not selling well, I'm thinking of the entire line. Sometimes, too much of the same runs the risk of diluting the brand that it might make the consumer/fan barf on an overdose of TF and cause another CRASH in the brand( like that of 1991 ).

so, fenrir, too much of the same is bad, but repainting stuff to trick/persuade people into buying a toy they've previously passed on is also bad?

I don't hate repaints. Often they make sense, even when they're a bit wacky, I can usually live with them (or without them, or with them on shelves and not in my possession, whatever) but can see that people might prefer new designs, and that sometimes a repaint can feel like a let-down. Lets say an Optimus Prime, painted white with some blue, for example.