The Energon Pub

Once again, yhis forum is not to debate IF Transformers can reproduce, but HOW they would.

Interesting, but I still don't think they'd be on a first name basis if it were a parent-daughter thing. And Whintertron, it can't be a debate on how it happens if it can't happen in the first place, kinda of like 'What would happen if Paris Hilton shuts her legs.'

Damolisher wrote:Interesting, but I still don't think they'd be on a first name basis if it were a parent-daughter thing. And Whintertron, it can't be a debate on how it happens if it can't happen in the first place, kinda of like 'What would happen if Paris Hilton shuts her legs.'

As far as the premise of this discussion goes, it can happen, and there is enough evidence to support it being possible, and that is the basis of this discussion.

And there's even more references to prove it can't, most of them having been written by the author of the Ultimate Guide, which you use as a reference often, Simon Furman.

Damolisher, if people want to ponder and debate about this sort of thing let them, there is not really any solid evidence either way, at least none that's not contradicted by something else. So it's still open for debate, even if there was solid evidence people are still going to talk and theorise about it anyway. It's doing you no harm.

OK, this is beginning to get on my nerves. Stop telling me there's no solid evidence either way, because there's plenty of evidence that they don't, the fact they're machines being reasons numbers one through ten. I'm simply pointing out it's illogical that they would have babies, and that's all I was saying. I'm not saying they're not allowed, I"m just saying it's rather silly.

Maybe it is, that is purely subjective. Being machine based really isn't proof though. It might be proof enough for you, but not for many others. As far as most of us here are concerned Cybertronians being robotic is completely irrelevant. Logically, if they have males and females and engage in activities and rituals strictly revolving around the choosing of a mate, and there are examples of them being parents of small children, then we can conclude that they have the capacity for sexual reproduction. Whether it is a common method used is another matter all together. So, can we please lay this debate to rest?

Tramp, the reason the debate is still going is you see males and females, and conclude they must have sex, even though they don't need to, and even though they're robots with nothing organic in them. Dude, honestly, you're looking at it from a science POV when it's nothing more than a cartoon designed to sell toys.

Regarding Chromia and Moonracers, while I don't think they are related I can see how you can say that they are. (I always assumed that if Prime and Elita had a child, she or he wouldn't call them Mom or dad in front of other members of the crew, rather they would address them as the others did.)

Wouldn't there be a way to convert the sillicon based dna? We know that a human can be transfered into the head of a tranformer, and we know that a human's brain pattern can be put inside an autobot. So how much conversion would it take from Headmasters to making dna compatable to humans?

Damolisher wrote:Tramp, the reason the debate is still going is you see males and females, and conclude they must have sex, even though they don't need to, and even though they're robots with nothing organic in them. Dude, honestly, you're looking at it from a science POV when it's nothing more than a cartoon designed to sell toys.

That may be. but it still doesn't disprove the possibility. They don't need to be organic. They just need to have males and females, genetics, engage in the activities that strictly revolve around mating andthe choosing of a mate, and there be evidence of children and parenting, all of which exists. No one is saying that they must be capable. What we are saying is that it is not impossible for them to be capable, and it isn't just me who sees this.

Ah, hang on, you said it HAD to be in the last topic about this going by these 7 criteria or whatever.

And I stick by my guns: relations are based on what building schematics are used. And Night Striker, of course you couldn't use bloody human DNA, that's just sick. What kind of disgusting mutant would that cause? Another Steven Hawking?

Night Striker wrote:Regarding Chromia and Moonracers, while I don't think they are related I can see how you can say that they are. (I always assumed that if Prime and Elita had a child, she or he wouldn't call them Mom or dad in front of other members of the crew, rather they would address them as the others did.)

Wel, I really don't know for certain that they are, it's just my theory ans something I decided to add to the bio of my custom Chromia figure.

Wouldn't there be a way to convert the sillicon based dna? We know that a human can be transfered into the head of a tranformer, and we know that a human's brain pattern can be put inside an autobot. So how much conversion would it take from Headmasters to making dna compatable to humans?

The only way is could even be theoretically possible would be if you could digitize the genes from silicon based chemical code into pure data and then engineer that into a carbon based chemical code. Even then, it won't be identical because you'd be replacing one element with another. In this case Carbon for Silicon. It is these basic elements that make the process virtually impossible, not the code sequences themselves.

Damolisher wrote:Ah, hang on, you said it HAD to be in the last topic about this going by these 7 criteria or whatever.

And I stick by my guns: relations are based on what building schematics are used. And Night Striker, of course you couldn't use bloody human DNA, that's just sick. What kind of disgusting mutant would that cause? Another Steven Hawking?

Yes, I did, but here is the kicker, none of those seven criteria include being carbon based. None of them include being organic.

Yeah, it also doesn't say it applies to cartoon characters either, especially robots created for children.

Yet AGAIN, this thead is for HOW, not IF.

Damolisher wrote:Yeah, it also doesn't say it applies to cartoon characters either, especially robots created for children.

Whiner-tron is right. It is a question of "how", not "if".

While Transformers is a cartoon, that doesn't make a difference. The story and characters aren't that simplistic and two-dimensional. Just because a story is for kids doesn't mean that it can't be more. and diffeent people enjoy a stroy differently. Some simply like to take it for what it is on the surface, others like;like to look deeper. To each his own.

No, it's a question of if. You can use all the would-be scientific laws you want, but at the end of the day, they're robots. And Whinertron, for the umpteenth bloody time, you can't have how if there IS NO HOW! AND THERE ISN'T! OK, do I need to show you the internal scan of Optimus Prime from the Armada comic? Because I see NOTHING even remotely suggesting genitals.

Damolisher wrote:No, it's a question of if. You can use all the would-be scientific laws you want, but at the end of the day, they're robots. And Whinertron, for the umpteenth bloody time, you can't have how if there IS NO HOW! AND THERE ISN'T! OK, do I need to show you the internal scan of Optimus Prime from the Armada comic? Because I see NOTHING even remotely suggesting genitals.

Would you even know what they would look like? More than likely, they would be very different than ours. The point is that as far as this discussion is concerned it is possible. there is canon evidence to support it. Yes, they are robotic, but in the end that makes no difference. What makes the difference is they're being living beings. What they are made of is irrelevant.

Yes, it does matter.Only organic creatures can sexually reproduce, obviously. There's nothing organic about Transformers. They're machiens. And ones who clearly DON'T need to reproduce. We've been told they're all made by either Vector Sigma in the G1 Cartoon, Beast Wars and Beast Machines, or all created with the Creation Matrix in the G1 Comic. It doesn't get much more open and shut than that.

Damolisher wrote:Yes, it does matter.Only organic creatures can sexually reproduce, obviously. There's nothing organic about Transformers. They're machiens. And ones who clearly DON'T need to reproduce. We've been told they're all made by either Vector Sigma in the G1 Cartoon, Beast Wars and Beast Machines, or all created with the Creation Matrix in the G1 Comic. It doesn't get much more open and shut than that.

What makes you so certain that only organic life can sexually reproduce? All sexual, reproduction takes is two sexes. All it is is reproduction involving the union of two gametes. This can be accomplished by organics life or non-organic life. For a mechanoid life form like TransFormers, those gametse would simply be nanite-based. rather tnan organic cells. All each would need to contain is half of each parent's genetic data, and merge together, then start replicating. Self-replicating nanomachines is already theroetically possible in real life. The advantage of it is also pretty simple. No need to devote massive amounts of resources to factories and such.

Yeah, I'm not buying it. They're robots, pure and simple. Not fancy sex machines, just freakin' robots that Transform and fight. Oh, and Neutrals, but who the slag cares about neutrals? There are no genetics with robots. They are all programmed by the Matrix or by Vector Sigma. This is what we are told, this is what we are shown. There is NO OTHER WAY. END. OF. DEBATE.

Damolisher wrote:Yeah, I'm not buying it. They're robots, pure and simple. Not fancy sex machines, just freakin' robots that Transform and fight. Oh, and Neutrals, but who the slag cares about neutrals? There are no genetics with robots. They are all programmed by the Matrix or by Vector Sigma. This is what we are told, this is what we are shown. There is NO OTHER WAY. END. OF. DEBATE.

We are also told that imbuing protoforms using the Matrix or Vector Sigma is not the only possible method. So, yes, there are other ways, and yes, they do have genetics. They are more than just robots.

Then wouldn't the tagline be "More than Robots in Disguise?" And yes, those ARE the only ways, hence the quotes:

Megatron: Vector Sigma, the computer which gave us ALL life.

Pincher: The Creation matrix's flame burns within US ALL. The bloody end. Far out, man, admit defeat already. You're virtually saying you know more than Simon Furman and whoever wrote the Key to Vector Sigma.

Not all sexual activities is done in the way we are accustomed to.

Some varieties of sea creatures do it without physical contact. The female lay the eggs. The male swim by to spray the sperms over them. Something like that.

Who knows what sort of activities is involved in robotic sex?

Damolisher wrote:Then wouldn't the tagline be "More than Robots in Disguise?" And yes, those ARE the only ways, hence the quotes:

Megatron: Vector Sigma, the computer which gave us ALL life.

Pincher: The Creation matrix's flame burns within US ALL. The bloody end. Far out, man, admit defeat already. You're virtually saying you know more than Simon Furman and whoever wrote the Key to Vector Sigma.

The "Creation Matrix's flame" is the Allspark. The Spark of Primus.

Secondly, you are ignoring the quote from MtMtE #8 which specifically stated that they had other untapped potential aside from relying on protoforms imbued with the Matrx. You are also ignoring that even using Protoforms, the matrix is not competely necessary because Decepticons manage to create new life wthout access to either Vector Sigma or the Matrix. These are both in the book.Not only that, there were numerous examples even in the cartoon wherer neither the Matrix nor Vector Sigma was used, including the Dinobots, for starters.