The Energon Pub

Tramp wrote:

Whiner-tron wrote:I'm sorry, I really think that a body being constructed outside the body is more fisable.

Are you talking like in an "egg" pod or factory built bodies?

Neither, I think that the nano-bots would join outside both bodies, use the materials at hand (dirt, trees, rocks, ext.) and create a new Transformer body right their and then. The body would be fully matcher, but the ‘bot would likely have the mind of a 5 year old (enough mental capacity to learn and survive semi-independently)

As proof of this, take BW Cheetor. On numerous occasions we see him do and say things that would be appropriate for a pre-adolescent, while his body appears to be that of an adult.

I’m sure people will punch holes in this argument eventually, but I think it is sound.

Whiner-tron wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Whiner-tron wrote:I'm sorry, I really think that a body being constructed outside the body is more fisable.

Are you talking like in an "egg" pod or factory built bodies?

Neither, I think that the nano-bots would join outside both bodies, use the materials at hand (dirt, trees, rocks, ext.) and create a new Transformer body right their and then. The body would be fully matcher, but the ‘bot would likely have the mind of a 5 year old (enough mental capacity to learn and survive semi-independently)

As proof of this, take BW Cheetor. On numerous occasions we see him do and say things that would be appropriate for a pre-adolescent, while his body appears to be that of an adult.

I’m sure people will punch holes in this argument eventually, but I think it is sound.

The problem there is that the examples of Wheelie and the children of the Dinof Force showthem as children, physically as well as mentally.

Tramp wrote:

Whiner-tron wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Whiner-tron wrote:I'm sorry, I really think that a body being constructed outside the body is more fisable.

Are you talking like in an "egg" pod or factory built bodies?

Neither, I think that the nano-bots would join outside both bodies, use the materials at hand (dirt, trees, rocks, ext.) and create a new Transformer body right their and then. The body would be fully matcher, but the ‘bot would likely have the mind of a 5 year old (enough mental capacity to learn and survive semi-independently)

As proof of this, take BW Cheetor. On numerous occasions we see him do and say things that would be appropriate for a pre-adolescent, while his body appears to be that of an adult.

I’m sure people will punch holes in this argument eventually, but I think it is sound.

The problem there is that the examples of Wheelie and the children of the Dinof Force showthem as children, physically as well as mentally.

Frankly, for every example you can find for anything in the Transformers universe, you can find something to disprove it.

Whiner-tron wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Whiner-tron wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Whiner-tron wrote:I'm sorry, I really think that a body being constructed outside the body is more fisable.

Are you talking like in an "egg" pod or factory built bodies?

Neither, I think that the nano-bots would join outside both bodies, use the materials at hand (dirt, trees, rocks, ext.) and create a new Transformer body right their and then. The body would be fully matcher, but the ‘bot would likely have the mind of a 5 year old (enough mental capacity to learn and survive semi-independently)

As proof of this, take BW Cheetor. On numerous occasions we see him do and say things that would be appropriate for a pre-adolescent, while his body appears to be that of an adult.

I’m sure people will punch holes in this argument eventually, but I think it is sound.

The problem there is that the examples of Wheelie and the children of the Dinof Force showthem as children, physically as well as mentally.

Frankly, for every example you can find for anything in the Transformers universe, you can find something to disprove it.

Well, there really is nothing to disprove. Cheetor was "born" from a protoform in a stasis pod, hence his Adult form.

Tramp wrote:Well, there really is nothing to disprove. Cheetor was "born" from a protoform in a stasis pod, hence his Adult form.

Where do you get that?

Whiner-tron wrote:

Tramp wrote:Well, there really is nothing to disprove. Cheetor was "born" from a protoform in a stasis pod, hence his Adult form.

Where do you get that?

All of the maximal crew, save the main characters were in protoform form in stasis pods.

As for Cheetor, he's a teenager, not a child, as someone else said, he's about the equivalent of a fifteen year old. Immaturity comes with the territory.

Cheetor is one of the main charectors, we see him in the first episode, as one of the Axalon's original crew.

Whiner-tron, I like your idea. It makes sense. I can't see any real physical way for a fem to carry around a child in her.

As for Wheelie, you notice that he was a smaller bot, and never did get a bigger body. He, like cheetor, had features on him that made him child like. That didn't mean that he started out in a small body.

Night Striker wrote:Whiner-tron, I like your idea. It makes sense. I can't see any real physical way for a fem to carry around a child in her.

As for Wheelie, you notice that he was a smaller bot, and never did get a bigger body. He, like cheetor, had features on him that made him child like. That didn't mean that he started out in a small body.

First off, thank you Night Striker.

Second, Wheele is a very good example. While he acts like a child, he looks to be physically mature. Just because he is small doesn’t mean he is young. Look at G1 Bumblebee, or BW Rattrap. In both cases the ‘bots are the smallest of their group, and they are obviously adults.

In short, (no pun intended) small dose not mean young.

(I'm sorry if I sound condesending, that wasn't my intention.)

Of course Wheelie didn't get a bigger body. Why would he? For one thing we really don't know how long it takes for a Cybertronian child like Wheelie to grow up. I was watching some subtitled episodes of Headmasters last night (I got up through episode 3) and not only did the older Autobots tell Daniel to "babysit" Wheelie, but on Cybertron itself, Wheelie made comments about the "grown-ups", once again confirming his status as being a child. I would probably say why we don't see him actually growing is because, for starters, Season 3 is only on e year in length, and Headmasters is also only one year's span. Secondly, the rate of growth is probably a lot slower than a Human child's especially once a Cybertronian reaches a certain age. Thus, it could take decades or even centuries for him to reach even adolescence, much less adulthood. Beast Wars (before the Maximals and Predicons travel back into the past) is supposed to start about 300 years after the events of G1. Thus, most of these characters can't be much older than 200 years old. Thus, we can probably surmise that fromk infancy to adulthood, for any "naturally born" TFs would probably take about 150 to 200 years give or take. Given Wheelie's physical body, and his maturity level, I would probably age him at about 75 years old (equivalent to a 10-12 year-old). BW Cheetor is supposed to be the equivalent of a 15 year old or so. Thus, chronologically, he should be about 120. Rat Trap is about 200, Primal about 250, and Rinox easily well over 300. He could very easily have been alive during the Great War, just not a participant. Most of the BW cvharacters though, were most likely born or created well after the end of the Great War.

Whiner-tron wrote:

Night Striker wrote:Whiner-tron, I like your idea. It makes sense. I can't see any real physical way for a fem to carry around a child in her.

As for Wheelie, you notice that he was a smaller bot, and never did get a bigger body. He, like cheetor, had features on him that made him child like. That didn't mean that he started out in a small body.

First off, thank you Night Striker.

Second, Wheele is a very good example. While he acts like a child, he looks to be physically mature. Just because he is small doesn’t mean he is young. Look at G1 Bumblebee, or BW Rattrap. In both cases the ‘bots are the smallest of their group, and they are obviously adults.

In short, (no pun intended) small dose not mean young.

(I'm sorry if I sound condesending, that wasn't my intention.)

Wheelie definately does not look, sound, nor act phyiscally mature. He looks and sounds just like a kid, and as stated and described in canon stories, he is a kid, not an adult.

Doesn't look like a child to me.

(Also, his tech spec describes him as a barbaric little savage.) Wheelie being a child is a cartoon concept only. As for Headmasters, that series only counts in JAPAN. Wheelie and Daniel are dumbed down to appeal to Japanese children. Hence Wheelie's popularity in Japan, compared to his scorn. As I said- maturity and age in Cybertronians is akin to the aging and outdating of technology. Take Kup- Old processors etc, old broken down car mode. Same with Ironhide. I take Kup as being the Cybertronian Equivalent to DOS, whereas Wheelie is Vista. (Wow, I can't believe I just compared Wheelie to Windows Vista. I feel so dirty.)

Since I don't know how to do multiple quotes, I will just mention and reply to a couple of interesting suggestions made earlier by others....

About humanXTransformers crosses/hybrids: It was asked earlier if humans and Tfs could ah, reproduce together and maybe create a viable offspring. I think it may be possible. I might have heard somewhere that (correst me if I heard wrong) that there had been born/created? a Transformer/Headmaster-alien hybrid in Headmasters. I have only heard of it, I don't know if its true.
Also the reason I think its possible is that theoretically, if a Tf nanite is programmed in most cases to complete its DNA, it might use the DNA of a human as a substitute for the "normal" DNA. That doesn't mean they both have to be made of the same chemicals. As a part of the "DNA" of the nanite could just latch on, copy the other DNA, and combine with the copy. The new copy of the human's DNA would be the human's own genetic code, just made out of the same substances as the Tfs. Same information, differant materials its made from. A lot of the guts of the Tf have equivelents in a human's, so a hybrid wouldn't automatically be mismatched biologically. Plus, the nanite could "decode" the DNA as it was scanning it and put appropriate genes in the right places.

But giving birth to this creature would hurt, and the parent would have to consume soluble metals for the body materials.

I think Seekers and ground-pounders are probably becoming new subspecies.. you can remake a Seeker into a ground pounder, but it may not be always compatible.. they might feel they are in the wrong body. They can breed together for now, but it is probably difficult to do so. They proprably don't "match" up as well then if they went with their own kind.

Actually, it isn't just a cartoon concept. DW also had him as a child. In essence, he is the stereotypical "wild-boy" like Mogli from Rudiard Kypling'sThe Jungle Book.

OK, why is it that once again someone needs to point out that Dreamwave borrow concepts from EVERYWHERE? If a certain character didn't have a character in a marvel comic, they genreally used their cartoon personality instead.

Damolisher wrote:OK, why is it that once again someone needs to point out that Dreamwave borrow concepts from EVERYWHERE? If a certain character didn't have a character in a marvel comic, they genreally used their cartoon personality instead.

Througout most of the cartoon, Wheelie was a "little Brother" character, not the true "wild Boy" he started out as in the movie, or in his toy bio. DW took him back to those origins as a savage little wild boy.

Tramp, OK, I know what I'm talking about here. I'm not denying the fact he has the mentality of a child. I'm just saying he's also a savage, and doesn't have the APPEARENCE of a child. In any case, he was programmed as a child, and his programming went postal. That's it, it's not like he's a kid mentally. Just like Jetfire in the Marvel comic was prgrammed into sentiency as an Autobot (He was created as a drone by the Decepticons), Wheelie was programmed as a child. Why do you think you never see any other Transformer act like a child, regardless of when they were made? Take the Aerialbots or Stunticons in the cartoon, for example.

Damolisher wrote:Tramp, OK, I know what I'm talking about here. I'm not denying the fact he has the mentality of a child. I'm just saying he's also a savage, and doesn't have the APPEARENCE of a child. In any case, he was programmed as a child, and his programming went postal. That's it, it's not like he's a kid mentally. Just like Jetfire in the Marvel comic was prgrammed into sentiency as an Autobot (He was created as a drone by the Decepticons), Wheelie was programmed as a child. Why do you think you never see any other Transformer act like a child, regardless of when they were made? Take the Aerialbots or Stunticons in the cartoon, for example.

And what i am saying is that yes he does have the appearance of a child. His proportions are child-like, his face is child-like. His entire form says "child". There is nothing "adult" in his appearance. He looks like a ten-year-old.

When the hell did you last see a ten year old with arms like that, coloured orange, with a face in the middle of their chest? Well, unless you live near like, a nuclear waste facility or something?

Damolisher wrote:When the hell did you last see a ten year old with arms like that, coloured orange, with a face in the middle of their chest? Well, unless you live near like, a nuclear waste facility or something?

When they're slouching.


His cartoon and comic appearance has him looking like a ten-year-old. < obviously, not exactly, because he isn't human, but you get my meaning. The shape and relative softness and smoothness of his face, even on the toy is very child-like as well. His gangliness, both as a toy and in the cartoons and comics is also attributive to a child. everything about him says "child".

Regardless, I can see no point or method for Transformers physicaly growing.

Whiner-tron wrote:Regardless, I can see no point or method for Transformers physicaly growing.

If, based upon Beast Wars, and DW both saying that TFs have, or are made up of Nanomachine "regenerative circuitry", then it stands to reason that the nanomachines would be what would allow them to grow similar to the way any other life form does. Given the hardness of their armored "skin", they might need to periodically "molt" in order to grow, but not change into new bodies.

Exactly. THAT would be ignoring the fact they're robots at all.

Why the HELL would robots molt? OK, honestly Tramp, you're starting to ignore the fact they're robots, and you're acting like they're actually organic. The difference between Transformers and other so-called life forms is that they're organic. It's armour. The only Transformer who's ever grown is Hot Rod, and that was because his body was altered by the Matrix. The nanomachines do REPAIRS. That's ALL. That's all their "regenerative circuitry" is.

Damolisher wrote:Exactly. THAT would be ignoring the fact they're robots at all.

No it wouldn't. Tow sources of canon say that Transformers are basically made up of smaller machines or circuitry. BW says the protoforms are basically nanomachines within a geletin solution. DW refers to protoforms as a skeletal mas of partially formed circuits in a nutrient soulution. Pretty much the same thing. Thus, nanomachines are the basic building block of a TransFormer, just as cells are the basic building block of our bodies. Their entire crystaline structure is made up of this self-replicating nanomachine "regenerative circuitry". If this system heals them and maintains them, wouldn't it also stand to reason that it would alLow them to grow?