The Energon Pub

The lack of good story telling in AEC, and the lack of good art in Animated.

I don't know what qualifies as cosmically bad, but Beast Machines (not Beast Wars) had bad toys for most of the characters. Armada was pretty cool, it was Energon that sucked (at least for the deluxe toys, some are ok). Oh, and the Quintessons blew up their whole planet just to destroy a few Autobots, all of whom survived! (in Five Faces of Darkness)

Nekoman wrote:Easy.

Animated.

Animated so far has been from what I can tell a general failure, like it or not. First, the show sucks bad, one of the worst television programs I have ever seen. Its getting moved to six in the morning on a Monday which screams ratings drop to me. Then the toys, they look like they’ll be decent but they’re coming out seven months after the show first started airing? That’s more than half a year!

To me it feels like “Hey guys, have you seen that Ben Ten? Kids love that crap! Which gives me the idea… Transformers + style of popular kids show + ??? = big success!”

I think animated is easily the worst transformers related thing ever. With the combination of some backwards marketing and a horrible concept, I get the feeling we’ll be seeing some dusty cards out there…

WOW! Speak for yourself. I personally really, really like all of animated. The show is legit, its not just random crap. It's a story advancing as it should be and also about the toys, the toys from what I hear are really good quality. In all the advanced reviews and other things, the figures were pretty much praised. And c'mon, the Dinobots are badass. And that Animated Deluxe Lock Down is like as tall as voyagers. It's not a failure. Speak for yourself.

But for me, the biggest failure is having tons of movie figs that weren't in the movie. I mean, a few were ok, like Arcee and Wreckage, but they got carried away with the Allspark stuff (I guess Sam ran around Mission city pegging every car he saw with the Allspark. They must not have shown that part in the movie) Some might be good toys, but you look at them and you can tell that most of them were from past toy-lines and to me, the toys themselves are ok, but they just don't fit into the movie.


Look at Swindle. What a sh**y robot.

Beast Machines...That is all. =]

every "3d" transformers cartoon. BW would be twice as good if it was animated the way it was meant to be in he first place.
g2.
any megatron apart from g1 and animated were crappidy crap.

Killing off Optimus Prime and that whole Rodimus Prime thing...

The decline of G1 as caused by Hasbro -

1) Introduction of gimmicks that got more desperate as G1 went on - Headmasters, Duocons, Ultra Pretenders, Clones, Firecons, etc.

2) The rejection of the line's core concept (Robots disguising themselves as recognisable vehicles), and creating wave after wave of character who just transformed into some crummy abstract futuristic vehicle (Autobot Headmasters, Pretenders, Clones), or some really bad mechanical animal/monster mode (Decepticon Mini-Headmasters, Monsterbots, Firecons).

3) The slow dumbing-down of transformations. For me, the best Transformers are those with the cleverest Transformations. Compare early G1 figs like Jetfire, Megatron, Grimlock, Sandstorm etc. with later efforts such as Slugslinger, Fastlane and Fangry (who is, in my view, one of the all-time worst Transformers ever).

We are currently in the middle of a golden age, if we did but know it. We still have simpler toys for the younger fans (like Fast Action Battlers and Activators), but the core lines combine fantastic articulation with engaging transformations and good alt modes (Deluxe Movie Bumblebee is a shining example of this). And then we also have Alternators and Masterpieces - the pinnacle of Transformers - plus lines like Classics and Encore keeping even the most nostalgic fans sated. It could be a lot, lot worse... it could be 1988!

JustinRODimus wrote:

Nekoman wrote:Easy.

Animated.

Animated so far has been from what I can tell a general failure, like it or not. First, the show sucks bad, one of the worst television programs I have ever seen. Its getting moved to six in the morning on a Monday which screams ratings drop to me. Then the toys, they look like they’ll be decent but they’re coming out seven months after the show first started airing? That’s more than half a year!

To me it feels like “Hey guys, have you seen that Ben Ten? Kids love that crap! Which gives me the idea… Transformers + style of popular kids show + ??? = big success!”

I think animated is easily the worst transformers related thing ever. With the combination of some backwards marketing and a horrible concept, I get the feeling we’ll be seeing some dusty cards out there…

WOW! Speak for yourself. I personally really, really like all of animated. The show is legit, its not just random crap. It's a story advancing as it should be and also about the toys, the toys from what I hear are really good quality. In all the advanced reviews and other things, the figures were pretty much praised. And c'mon, the Dinobots are badass. And that Animated Deluxe Lock Down is like as tall as voyagers. It's not a failure. Speak for yourself.

With episodes like Nature Calls, Nanosec, ect how is it the story is advancing? I often found that most of the first season episodes went absolutely no where.

And I did say the toys look decent, but my point is they’re coming out seven months after the show premiered, wouldn’t you say that was a pretty big mistake?

Nekoman wrote:
And I did say the toys look decent, but my point is they’re coming out seven months after the show premiered, wouldn’t you say that was a pretty big mistake?

I must admit.....I do agree on that statement u jus made. Hasbro really drop the ball on that one and now mad that ppl overseas are profiting off their mistake

StryderPrime wrote:

Nekoman wrote:
And I did say the toys look decent, but my point is they’re coming out seven months after the show premiered, wouldn’t you say that was a pretty big mistake?

I must admit.....I do agree on that statement u jus made. Hasbro really drop the ball on that one and now mad that ppl overseas are profiting off their mistake

Right, my point wasn’t that animated is a failure because I don’t like it, my point was that animated is a failure or mistake because Hasbro either didn’t get the toys out soon enough or they didn’t work a deal with CN to not air the show until the toys were out.

Hasbro is making a good decision releasing the toys in June, its something many people here don’t seem to understand is that toys don’t sell in January. Mainly because it’s the month after Christmas and I would think it could be harder for little Jimmy to convince Mom and Pop that he needs more toys just briefly after getting a but load of them. That is probably why Hasbro releases repaints at the first of the year so if they don’t sell well, Hasbro doesn’t lose much.

Summarizing my basic point, June was a good month to get Animated to a start. Here is where Hasbro fell short.

It is my thinking that they should’ve made a better deal with CN along the lines of “you can not air this show until ____ date” thus the show would be on and just begin airing as the toys come out, then Jimmy would have the money and hear about the toys off TV or see the toys at the store and watch the show.

However Hasbro didn’t make this deal or worse CN didn’t hold to their end of the bargain, which could affect how the toys sell. It is a known fact that having some source of media added to a toy line will help how the toys sell, but by the time these toys are out the show will be nearing the end or even be into reruns. Kids might even get bored and forget since they don’t really have any toys to go along with it or just be sick of it when the toys are finally out.

My point, Hasbro messed up by not making CN wait to air the show, so they could instead have one big launch for Animated, rather than a show and then more than half a year later the toys.

Thinking about it, at what point did Transformers almost die?

That's right - Generation Two.

So I guess it could be said that G2 was the biggest mistake Hasbro made, mainly by the bulk of the line being purely repaints of "famous" G1 figures, and the new molds being (mostly) new characters nobody had heard of, with no form of Kid Entertainment besides an aborted comic book four issues long.

"I dunno, Mom. I already have Sideswipe and Starscream. And I dunno who that orange jet guy is. Oooh, a new Optimus Prime with an oil tanker trailer!"

"No, Jimmy, he's too expensive."

Valandar wrote:Thinking about it, at what point did Transformers almost die?

That's right - Generation Two.

So I guess it could be said that G2 was the biggest mistake Hasbro made, mainly by the bulk of the line being purely repaints of "famous" G1 figures, and the new molds being (mostly) new characters nobody had heard of, with no form of Kid Entertainment besides an aborted comic book four issues long.

"I dunno, Mom. I already have Sideswipe and Starscream. And I dunno who that orange jet guy is. Oooh, a new Optimus Prime with an oil tanker trailer!"

"No, Jimmy, he's too expensive."

G2 was a failure 2 me do 2 poor marketing on Hasbro poart. Also our overseas friends how a better selection then we did in the US since they had a lot more new molds that was release over there rather then the reissues we had here.

BUT...........I did convince my dad at the time 2 get me a G2 inferno and Jazz which i was happy but didnt know no better at the time.


I surprise nobody didnt mention the Machine Wars line which Hasbro intents 2 release some molds in the US that places like the UK had but that fail miserable 2



But 2 Animated, my only worry about the late release is that its running with the big franchise movies like Batman and Ironman, Hulk, Wall-e, Speed racers and etc tat kids might get sidetrack and 4get about that Bumblebee they wanted

starfish wrote:The decline of G1 as caused by Hasbro -

1) Introduction of gimmicks that got more desperate as G1 went on - Headmasters, Duocons, Ultra Pretenders, Clones, Firecons, etc.

2) The rejection of the line's core concept (Robots disguising themselves as recognisable vehicles), and creating wave after wave of character who just transformed into some crummy abstract futuristic vehicle (Autobot Headmasters, Pretenders, Clones), or some really bad mechanical animal/monster mode (Decepticon Mini-Headmasters, Monsterbots, Firecons).

3) The slow dumbing-down of transformations. For me, the best Transformers are those with the cleverest Transformations. Compare early G1 figs like Jetfire, Megatron, Grimlock, Sandstorm etc. with later efforts such as Slugslinger, Fastlane and Fangry (who is, in my view, one of the all-time worst Transformers ever).

We are currently in the middle of a golden age, if we did but know it. We still have simpler toys for the younger fans (like Fast Action Battlers and Activators), but the core lines combine fantastic articulation with engaging transformations and good alt modes (Deluxe Movie Bumblebee is a shining example of this). And then we also have Alternators and Masterpieces - the pinnacle of Transformers - plus lines like Classics and Encore keeping even the most nostalgic fans sated. It could be a lot, lot worse... it could be 1988!

Truer words have rarely been typed.

I noticed the upswing of the "new golden age" when I got back into the whole TF thing after a long hiatus (thanks HASBRO! )...they brought back lines of toys that did not have that Playskool look to them..Takara toys got easier to get a hold of in the US(thank you internet!)...Was SO glad to see it I might have shed a tear! I missed the hobby/obscession of my youth!

G2 was good for me also. I got Jazz, Side Swipe, Inferno, Optimus, Bumblebee, Grimlock, Slag, and others that I missed being only four in 1985. I somehow ended up losing all of Starscream's missiles and breaking off his tailfins, making me understand why they changed the seekers for season 2 and killed off the originals. I also got some of the new ones. The color changer didn't impress me, but the cyber jets (ball joints before Beast Wars) are awesome! I also collected the twelve non-transparent "Go-Bots" and use them as small, fast soldiers in my TF battles. I never saw the show, though, except for a few episodes years later.


I also agree about Machine Wars. I have tried to forget about the lack of paint detail making the toys look like overly simplistic lumps of plastic. The only Machine Wars toy I got was Starscream. It has only two points of articulation: the arms. It also is too big to play with my other toys, and mine didn't come with the missile launchers that were on the package! At least the RID repaints of the small toys look good.

StryderPrime wrote:G2 was a failure 2 me do 2 poor marketing on Hasbro poart. Also our overseas friends how a better selection then we did in the US since they had a lot more new molds that was release over there rather then the reissues we had here.

BUT...........I did convince my dad at the time 2 get me a G2 inferno and Jazz which i was happy but didnt know no better at the time.


I surprise nobody didnt mention the Machine Wars line which Hasbro intents 2 release some molds in the US that places like the UK had but that fail miserable 2


But 2 Animated, my only worry about the late release is that its running with the big franchise movies like Batman and Ironman, Hulk, Wall-e, Speed racers and etc tat kids might get sidetrack and 4get about that Bumblebee they wanted

Is the word "to" that difficult to type?


Back on topic, I feel that G2 was a big mistake in execution. Instead of returning to the roots of the toys with a new storyline and new toy designs, there was little supporting marketing (no show, comic cancelled early on) and they just repainted/retooled existing figures with garrish paint designs.

Beast Machines is a close second. I suppose I should attempt to watch more of the show, but I had a really hard time watching the first few episodes.

I still feel that the Star Wars/Transformers crossover was also an abominatio but people seem to like it.

Lapse Of Reason wrote:

StryderPrime wrote:G2 was a failure 2 me do 2 poor marketing on Hasbro poart. Also our overseas friends how a better selection then we did in the US since they had a lot more new molds that was release over there rather then the reissues we had here.

BUT...........I did convince my dad at the time 2 get me a G2 inferno and Jazz which i was happy but didnt know no better at the time.


I surprise nobody didnt mention the Machine Wars line which Hasbro intents 2 release some molds in the US that places like the UK had but that fail miserable 2


But 2 Animated, my only worry about the late release is that its running with the big franchise movies like Batman and Ironman, Hulk, Wall-e, Speed racers and etc tat kids might get sidetrack and 4get about that Bumblebee they wanted

Is the word "to" that difficult to type?

Not really but since I not writing a resume or a test paper I jus lik shortcuttin wordz as much as I can

Dragonoth wrote:
I also agree about Machine Wars. I have tried to forget about the lack of paint detail making the toys look like overly simplistic lumps of plastic. The only Machine Wars toy I got was Starscream. It has only two points of articulation: the arms. It also is too big to play with my other toys, and mine didn't come with the missile launchers that were on the package! At least the RID repaints of the small toys look good.

Yea I remember that odd looking white Starscream on the shelf 2 but it didnt have tat bomb scope gimmick which was a total letdown

Nekoman wrote:

JustinRODimus wrote:

Nekoman wrote:Easy.

Animated.

Animated so far has been from what I can tell a general failure, like it or not. First, the show sucks bad, one of the worst television programs I have ever seen. Its getting moved to six in the morning on a Monday which screams ratings drop to me. Then the toys, they look like they’ll be decent but they’re coming out seven months after the show first started airing? That’s more than half a year!

To me it feels like “Hey guys, have you seen that Ben Ten? Kids love that crap! Which gives me the idea… Transformers + style of popular kids show + ??? = big success!”

I think animated is easily the worst transformers related thing ever. With the combination of some backwards marketing and a horrible concept, I get the feeling we’ll be seeing some dusty cards out there…

WOW! Speak for yourself. I personally really, really like all of animated. The show is legit, its not just random crap. It's a story advancing as it should be and also about the toys, the toys from what I hear are really good quality. In all the advanced reviews and other things, the figures were pretty much praised. And c'mon, the Dinobots are badass. And that Animated Deluxe Lock Down is like as tall as voyagers. It's not a failure. Speak for yourself.

With episodes like Nature Calls, Nanosec, ect how is it the story is advancing? I often found that most of the first season episodes went absolutely no where.

And I did say the toys look decent, but my point is they’re coming out seven months after the show premiered, wouldn’t you say that was a pretty big mistake?

i'm talking more recently but even so, didn't nature calls have some foreshadowing at the end? i'm not quite sure but i think it did. i understand that they can't just introduce new bots every Saturday but from the original 5 autobots, we now have the dino bots and the elite guard. and they introduced soundwave and i could see where they could go with the headmaster. even if he's annoying as hell, is concept is good imo. and megatron just got revived so the story should go quick. i feel it's moving at a good pace, not too fast at least, but slow enough.

and ya, i have to agree with you on the delay. hopefully theyre worth the wait.

Biggest screw up?

Killing Optimus Prime and Rodmius Prime's greatest moment (destroying Unicron) being within the first minutes of his debut. They had a potentially great character and they chose to go the wussy route with him and have a crappy toy.

Primacron & the quintessons in the cartoon.
Primacron: Sure, an ape with a small space station constructed a planet-sized transformer that can devour planets. And don't forget that the Matrix that's supposed to be the autobots holy relic was the apes sidekick
Quintessons: The worst origin story. Ever.

starfish wrote:The decline of G1 as caused by Hasbro -

1) Introduction of gimmicks that got more desperate as G1 went on - Headmasters, Duocons, Ultra Pretenders, Clones, Firecons, etc.

2) The rejection of the line's core concept (Robots disguising themselves as recognisable vehicles), and creating wave after wave of character who just transformed into some crummy abstract futuristic vehicle (Autobot Headmasters, Pretenders, Clones), or some really bad mechanical animal/monster mode (Decepticon Mini-Headmasters, Monsterbots, Firecons).

3) The slow dumbing-down of transformations. For me, the best Transformers are those with the cleverest Transformations. Compare early G1 figs like Jetfire, Megatron, Grimlock, Sandstorm etc. with later efforts such as Slugslinger, Fastlane and Fangry (who is, in my view, one of the all-time worst Transformers ever).

We are currently in the middle of a golden age, if we did but know it. We still have simpler toys for the younger fans (like Fast Action Battlers and Activators), but the core lines combine fantastic articulation with engaging transformations and good alt modes (Deluxe Movie Bumblebee is a shining example of this). And then we also have Alternators and Masterpieces - the pinnacle of Transformers - plus lines like Classics and Encore keeping even the most nostalgic fans sated. It could be a lot, lot worse... it could be 1988!

WELL SAID!!!!!

Late G1 and then G2 had a lot of SUCK. Much like TF's brother line, GI Joe, they just didn't seem to know what to do with the properties and so they flailed around with gimmicks and neon colors.

Moving from solid, well designed and executed bots to garish playschool looking things was a step in the wrong direction. In large part, this was the beginning of the end for me in TFs.

I really liked Beast Wars and Beast Machines too, as shows, but the toys didn't do it for me.

RID did little to help. While there are some great figures in that line, Optimus being a Prime example (pun intended), even he failed in many ways. While he is a great toy, and a cool design, he looks a lot more like Inferno than Optimus.

A/E/C had crappy shows IMO, and that is a shame, because the lack of draw from the shows kept me away from TFs during the rise back to awesome. Those 3 lines just got better and better with Cybertron having some really outstanding figures. It's been expensive getting some of those on the secondary market. Especially when I remember them in the clearance aisle.

Then Alts and classics hit and I was re-hooked.

I really dug the movie and the toys, while not without some notable flaws, were pretty darn cool.

I like the new animated series. A lot! It's the first one I've liked in 15 years, and I can't wait for the toys for that.

You say Golden age, I say HELL YEA!!!