The Energon Pub

What/Who are the 13 original Transformers?

i know the fallen, vector prime, and the leige maximo were among them

fromwednesday747 wrote:i know the fallen, vector prime, and the leige maximo were among them

What about Alpha Trion? I have a few that I think would be good ones. First off Optimus Prime cannot be Orion Pax with a better body. There's something fishy about that, so I vote Optimus. Megatron keeps turnning into Galvatron, alot of power there, so he must be another. Starscream can't die. Soundwave has a bunch of super powered midget bots that live inside him. Shockwave, the first to awaken. He's a huge freakin gun ( for a God perhaps ). Omega Supreme. Massive protector of Cybertron. More were made in his likeness, but only he had a spark.
Just my thoughts.

well, i guess it all depends on which story you're considering. If you're going to go with the idea of there even being 13 originals, then you're right, Optimus wasn't Orion Pax, he was Optronix, and became Optimus Prime after he received the Matrix from the dying Sentinel Prime. Alpha Trion is a possibility. I really don't think that Soundwave is, especially not just because of the cassettes... cause by that logic Blaster would be one too, and i hate to think of the Transformers version of a racial stereotype as one of the first created. I'm doubtful of Omega Supreme... and this is kind of not in the same vein, but if you're going by the cartoons, the Constructicons created Megatron. Its a whole big time traveling thing, just like how the Aerialbots had a hand in creating Optimus. I'm just going to stick with the three we know for now.

Of the 13 original Cybertronians first created by Primus, the only ones named are Vector Prime, Alpha Trion (possibly), Liege Maximo, and the Fallen. The others have not been identified as of yet.

Isn't Vector Prime basically Cybertron's version of Alpha Trion? Seems to me they stole the name from Vector Sigma, the computer that gave the TF's personalities

it is stated in the fiction that vector prime is a part of the universe and teleports thru the time/space continuum.

What about Unicron and Primus?

Megatron's spark was not created by the constructicons however, it was by Primus and maybe Unicron that the Transformers came to be.
Blaster is just his body, maybe he was cloned after Soundwave, or maybe they are actually one spark that was separated because of Power or jealousy of the other 12 originals.
Maybe Vector Sigma is actually named after Vector Prime.

Who is in charge of the story line? We as fans should pitch in our help since the people in charge can't seem to get around to telling anyone.
Oh yeah Grimlock the King, the leader of the toughest group around, A loner, and obviously one of the top 13 Strongest and most intelligent.

Hobbyist Prime wrote:What about Unicron and Primus?

Unicron and primus are not mambers of th Original 13. The Original 13 are the first thirteen transformers ever created by Primus From them came all of the rest of the Cybertronian race. Primus and Unicron are primordial gods of Order and Chaos respectively.

if i remember correctly, Vector Sigma is what contains the allspark, which is what sparks come from. Megatrons spark wasn't around until Megatron was created. And Grimlock was made by Wheeljack (or Ratchet, i can't remember)... once again, depending on which story you're going by. At any rate, the original 13 are all much, much more powerful than your average transformer, so it wouldn't really make sense for any of the characters we've been introduced other than the Fallen, Leige Maximo, and Vector Prime to be one of them. I think it'd be more interesting to create your own TF and just call him one of the original 13, kind of like they were doing with Eternus for Paradise Lost.

Picking your own is just too easy. If all sparks return to the heart of Cybertron, or the collective, then would it not stand too reason that those who made the bodies for Optimus, Megs, Grimlock and such were creating those bodies knowing who they were creating them for, and knew the power these beings had?
Just brainstorming here. I'd like to know who else could be considered in our quest for the 13. Any suggestions who should be added to the list?

Wheelie is in fact on of the 13, he is however the annoying little brother of the group and they jsut keep killing him over and over again and respawning him into new annoying little forms.

fromwednesday747 wrote:if i remember correctly, Vector Sigma is what contains the allspark, which is what sparks come from. Megatrons spark wasn't around until Megatron was created. And Grimlock was made by Wheeljack (or Ratchet, i can't remember)... once again, depending on which story you're going by. At any rate, the original 13 are all much, much more powerful than your average transformer, so it wouldn't really make sense for any of the characters we've been introduced other than the Fallen, Leige Maximo, and Vector Prime to be one of them. I think it'd be more interesting to create your own TF and just call him one of the original 13, kind of like they were doing with Eternus for Paradise Lost.

It would make sense for Alpha Trion to be one of the Original 13. He is pehaps the oldest transformer on Cybertron. Much older than Kup or Ironhide by a long shot. It is implied, though not stated in MtMtE that he might be.

As for Vector Prime. Transformers.com confirms that he is indeed one of the first 13 in their Ask Vector Prime Q&A section. Also, given that Vector Prime knew Alpha Trion from many years back, He too would likely be as well. These are the questions and responses form there:



Q: What are the names of the first TRANSFORMERS?

A: Of course, there is me- Vector Prime. Another of the original 13 was called ?The Fallen?. We never speak of his evil...I cannot reveal too much of this information...it is the hidden lore of Cybertron.



Q: Is Vector Prime really actually old?

A: Yes, I am almost as old as the universe itself. I was one of the first Transformers ever created.



Q: Are you really one of the first 13 Transformers?

A: Yes

Q: How old are you?

A: I am almost as old as the planet Cybertron. That is over 9 billion years old!



Q: Do you know Alpha Trion?

A: Yes, from many years ago.

Here is a couple of questions about Primus and Unicron:

Q: Who created Primus and Unicron?

A: Primus and Unicron were created by the "Source" - an ancient and powerful force.


Q: Who is Primus?

A: You might occasionally hear the Autobots mention ?Primus.? Primus is one of the first two Transformers, and is Unicron?s total opposite and brother. Primus is the ultimate force of good in the universe just as Unicron is the ultimate evil.

Q: Who was Unicron?

A: Unicron was an Evil Transformer that is the size of a planet who constantly threatens the Transformers universe. He has been destroyed several times, but always seems to come back. No one knows how.

fromwednesday747 wrote:if i remember correctly, Vector Sigma is what contains the allspark, which is what sparks come from. Megatrons spark wasn't around until Megatron was created. And Grimlock was made by Wheeljack (or Ratchet, i can't remember)... once again, depending on which story you're going by. At any rate, the original 13 are all much, much more powerful than your average transformer, so it wouldn't really make sense for any of the characters we've been introduced other than the Fallen, Leige Maximo, and Vector Prime to be one of them. I think it'd be more interesting to create your own TF and just call him one of the original 13, kind of like they were doing with Eternus for Paradise Lost.

According to current lore, and the original toys (not the cartoon), Grimlock and the rest of the Dinobots came from Cybertron. They were not built on Earth by Wheeljack. Also, given Alpha Trion?s connection with Vector Sigma, this gives further credence to his being one of the Original 13.

Tramp wrote:

fromwednesday747 wrote:if i remember correctly, Vector Sigma is what contains the allspark, which is what sparks come from. Megatrons spark wasn't around until Megatron was created. And Grimlock was made by Wheeljack (or Ratchet, i can't remember)... once again, depending on which story you're going by. At any rate, the original 13 are all much, much more powerful than your average transformer, so it wouldn't really make sense for any of the characters we've been introduced other than the Fallen, Leige Maximo, and Vector Prime to be one of them. I think it'd be more interesting to create your own TF and just call him one of the original 13, kind of like they were doing with Eternus for Paradise Lost.

According to current lore, and the original toys (not the cartoon), Grimlock and the rest of the Dinobots came from Cybertron. They were not built on Earth by Wheeljack. Also, given Alpha Trion?s connection with Vector Sigma, this gives further credence to his being one of the Original 13.

Hence why i added the disclaimer "depending on which story you're going by". If you're going by the cartoon, then they were made on Earth. Since the continuity being used seemed to be jumping around, i figured it was worth mentioning. I actually don't think, if we're using that Q&A as the reference, that Alpha Trion is one of the original 13. I feel like they would have had VP mention him when they asked him who the originals were. But who knows... since so many of these stories were written by so many different people, with different ideas, i think its impossible to know unless, in a canonical medium, a TF is stated as one of the first. Maybe originally they meant for Alpha Trion to be one of the first, but things may have since changed.

In Five Faces of Darkness they speak of how the Quintessions would use the first Transformers for consumer goods and military hardware, then a revolution broke out and they then learned to transform. Thus, they kicked the Quints' off Cybertron claimed it for themselves. (Shorty after Megatron was created by the Constructicons and blah blah blah) Where does all that fall into play since they decided to add all this new crap? And if Vector Prime is almost as old as Cybertron, why is all that not mentioned? They're screwin' it up, people!!

actually thinking back on the birth of the dinobots(cartoon),wheeljack and ratchet intially created them without personality components;a term used for the items used to give the combaticons life so you could go with the reasoning that personality components are spark cores(or something similar)and that the dynabots were resurrectted as the dinobots

The problem is that you guys are confusing G1 cartoon and comic/toy continuity. The "13" don't exist in the G1 cartoon continuity, they were a comic only concept. In the comic the Dinobots were not built by Wheeljack and Ratchet. They were created on Cybertron around the same time as all the other G1 Autobots. They are also far smarter in the comic then they are in the show. The Quintessions don't even exist in the comic world either. They are a cartoon only creation. The comic origins have nothing to do with them and everything to do with Primus, where as the G1 cartoon has no mention of Primus because the idea didn't exist when the show was made. Nore did the concept of sparks. Thats the problem with Retcons. You force new concepts into stories that weren't written with them in mind, which completely **** with continuity. Also Megatron wasn't built by the Constructicons. And the Constructicons have three different G1 cartoon origins of their own since the writers didn't pay attention to what had been done previousely.

Personally I find trying to come up with a solid ongoing continuity from G1 till now is ridiculous. G1+BW+BM cartoon are on universe. G1 comic is another. Japanese G1 cartoons through Victory are another, then you have the Armada trilogy, and in Japan Micron legend-Super Link with Galaxy Force being another universe where Cybertron is a follow on in the US. Dreamwave is another. IDW is another on top of that.

And not a single charater or concept other then that they are Transforming robots with a guy named Prime leading them is actually present in all series/universes. My opinion, pick your favorite and enjoy, but don't try to link them all, its pointless and impossible unless you start making **** up to fill the gaps and retcon the hell out of them till they are no longer the stories they were written to be.

well, i think it was an interesting question. If we're going to carry on with this topic, i think we should decide right now that the DREAMWAVE continuity is the one we should go with, since its the only one that mentions the "first 13" anyways. Sound good?

fromwednesday747 wrote:well, i think it was an interesting question. If we're going to carry on with this topic, i think we should decide right now that the DREAMWAVE continuity is the one we should go with, since its the only one that mentions the "first 13" anyways. Sound good?

Run with it! The problem is we only have 4 or 5. Dreamwave didn't give us the other 7. So. Who shall we say are these unbeforementioned others? (don't use that word in a scrabble game)

The others have never even been mentioned in any form. They are complete mysteries. Their identities lost to time so to speak. It goes without saying that none of the existing transformers are among their number.

I posted in Seibertrons forum and this is what I found.
http://seibertron.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 94&start=0
A ton of info.

Here's my list (some are certain, other aren't)

1. Prima (The First)
2. Fallen (Keeper of Transwarp Space)
3. Vector Prime (Keeper of Time)
4. Alpha Trion (Primus' Agent)
5. Maccadam (Owner of Old Oil House)
6. The Last Autobot (Creator of the Autobots)
7. Leige Maximo (Creator of the Dececpticons)
8. Nexus Maximus (Creator of Rarified Energon)


Other Possibilities

Sentinel Prime (Matrix Bearer)
Nova Prime (Matrix Bearer)
Guardian Prime (Matrix Bearer)
Alpha Prime (Matrix Bearer)
Boltax (Keeper of the Underbase)
Keeper (Keeper of the Slumbering Primus)

Lets see...

Confirmed

1. Prima
2. The Fallen
3. Vector Prime
4. Logos Prime
5. Nexus Maximus

Undecided but are strong possibilities

Alpha Trion
Liege Maximo
The Keeper
The Last Autobot
Boltax
Maccadam

Thats my opinion on the matter.