The Energon Pub

G1 Legacy wrote:Discharge wrote:

Well, your buying 3rd party eliminates you as their customer base.
You are supporting off brand companies, not Hasbro.

Oh no,no,no your not getting away with that, it's not as cut and dry as that and I suspect you know better. I have an entire stash of HASBRO products going back decades. ALOT of third party items are designed to enhance or improve Hasbro's existing stock figures and actually encourages sales of said figures by the lure of customization options etc.
Beezleboss replacement heads for BumbleBee/Cliffjumper for example. FansProject Superion and Bruticus Upgrades....Ultra Magnus, HotRod Parallax upgrades....Optimus Prime Trailer + accesories. Any of the numerous items that Venksta puts out through his Renderform company....all of these afformentioned items are third party but are designed to coinside with existing HASBRO TAKARA products.....Soooooo YES, I am their customer base! If they would pay more attention and show clear outward willingness to listen to customer feedback and the wants and needs of the people who pay for their salaries, their might not be such a need for 3rd party accesories now would there?
The bottom line is it's human nature to want to customize stuff, human beings have been doing it from the begining (just look at society, automotive, fashion trends etc etc). Hasbro knows this and yet their still choosing to go this route to cut off their nose just to spite their face and its not wise. Yes time will tell, yes we "the hardcore fanbase" will adapt either way, and yes its dumb to pull the rug out from under people that signed up expecting "A" and then serving them "B". Thats not good business ethic and it demonstrates a lack of patience and acceptance of this hobby and how its expanding outsiide of the control of HAS/TAK.
(and I'm aware that I'm impatient and intolerant myself on the film franchise, thats just my opinion as a person that grew up with G1).
Yes its a HASBRO's Transformers Botcon, not Gobots or Gundam etc, but they know that its grown to become more than just a simple TF convention, I mean people's vacations and social lives revolve around this event now...do you think that these people who take this hobby this seriously are just gonna let HASBRO call all of the shots over this hobby that many of us are passionate about? I dont think so...

So, "WELL" excuse my angst.

The majority of the add-on kits are announced well after the toy has spent it's time on the store shelves. The only ones profiting are ebay sellers and the like. Honestly, if things hadn't progressed past add-ons and extra weapons building up to full on figures like Hercules\Scouting Force\Minions, Hasbro might have looked the other way.
Anyone complaining these won't be at Botcon in the dealer spaces is confounding.
Just buy em online, it's not that big a deal. The fact that Battle Tanker isn't sold out(at least last time I checked) means there are more pieces than demand.
One would think people would have multiples being bought to use on SG Magnus.
I really think less people will feel impacted, so all those complaining just want to complain about something inconsequential.

Hasbro has the full right to not allow third parties to have a place at their show. Select audience or not (open-minded adult collector fans with piles of money to burn), there is the fact 3rd parties have been stealing the limelight as of late with huge mega-projects. Now, let's be clear: Hasbro has nothing to fear financially, the multiple runs of most 3rd party toys probably don't come close to the numbers Hasbro ships out in a single wave.

I will be horrified if Hasbro starts leaning on retailers, but for now I see no harm in Hasbro sending a little "know your place, boy"

What's really funny is the talk of 3rd parties going full indie. Sure, the big ones like Fansproject and TFC could go that road NOW, but if they came out with that initially, would any of us had noticed or cared? This is a TF site, powered by TF fans, zeroing in exclusively on TF related stuff. Unless it happened to resemble a TF character anyway (which at this point in the franchaise is actually easier than avoiding it), there wouldn't have been any reason to point out that these talented people existed.

Burn wrote:Ridiculous? How? These guys obviously have talent, but what, they can't come up with something on their own?

Of all the Transformers fans out there, there's not a bunch of people who couldn't create original characters, original stories, an original universe?

The amount of talent in this fandom and the 3rd party companies is there, but it's all just about basing off existing characters. That to me, is unoriginal.

But hey, that's just my opinion, don't expect you to agree with it, don't care if you do or don't actually. I just think these guys could be doing so much more and avoid attracting the attention of Hasbro.

I just meant in regards to the fact that no one else is really doing anything "original" in Transformers, so to call the 3rd party guys unoriginal seems kind of unfair and not giving them enough credit, especially since they're doing such a good job of being unoriginal (theres obviously a ton of originality in the redesign, and toy engineering and such).

But I do understand what you are saying, and I agree that it would be awesome to see more stuff like the creation of "Drift"...but.. not drift, and instead a new bunch of transforming robots that are from some other planet or even from cybertron, but aren't in any of the lore at the moment of conception.

Armarauders is a good example of what you want, yes? (except that it isn't really 3rd party)

GetRightRobot wrote:And just a general comment, PERSONALLY, I don't collect cool transforming robots. I collect TRANSFORMERS and most of my buying decisions are based on the character, not the toy. If it is a Character (or not-character) I really don't care who makes it. I want to throw 100% support to Has/Tak, but right now, they just aren't selling me. Now the new MP Sideswipe, most of the WFC, ofcourse, sold.

Well said, sir.

I uh, wanted to jump into the bandwagon, but you guys already said pretty much all of the points so I'll just shut up and contribute nothing to this thread

However~

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:And I'll leave with this quote:

"Never bite the hand that feeds you"

Up to you to figure it out.

QFT. And to elaborate, here:

T-Macksimus wrote:This isn't crossing the line unless Hasbro starts throwing their weight around at all the other conventions. It's a Hasbro event, they call the shots, the rules are spelled out and any of you who think the 3rd party guys aren't messing with Hasbros IP are delusional. It's ALL their stuff on a basic level, theirs and Takaras. Without their stuff as a basis there would be no need for "upgrades", "improvements" or whatever else we get from our 3rd party guys that vastly improves our collections. Don't play dumb folks, it's not very becoming. We just accept it and move on. I happen to love the 3rd party stuff myself and I would hate to see it go away, and that's not a fear of mine. It won't go away. We just won't see it at BotCon. This may be the biggest show but it's not the only show out there and Hasbro can't say sh** or confiscate anything at the other shows. BotCon is "their house" and you don't screw with someone in their own house, at least not if you have an ounce of respect or common sense which, sadly, means that a portion of our fan base is in trouble.

A fair argument.

Burn wrote:

MINDVVIPE wrote:I think calling 3rd party figures unoriginal on the basis that they did not create the character it is based off is kind of ridiculous.

Ridiculous? How? These guys obviously have talent, but what, they can't come up with something on their own?

I think it would be because they are run by fans. Kind of like TFCC, except not complete ****. But hey, I agree they should try being original once in a while, even if it clearly will not be good business for them. Many great singers raise quickest to fame by singing someone else's song. Honestly it may seem ridiculous, but if Hasbro is so bothered by it they should buy them out.

If I were in Hasbro's position, I simply would not care about someone using my IP, as long as they were not tearing into my profits. Fan companies equate to a small speck of dirt on one of Hasbro's trimmed toenails. I realize that they may want to protect their IP simply on principle, but honestly it is just BULLSHIT.

Also I agree with MINDVIPE, Hasbro has done nothing but spew the same unoriginal bullshit since the beginning. Still Optimus, Megatron and Cybertron, nothing ever changes except the setting.

You know, no matter what excuses you lay out, theres only one thing that matters. And its the fans, which we all know Hasbro doesn't care about. Or there wouldn't be 48 repainted BumbleBees on my wall, (not on mine, just sayin), or the other 200 repaints of maybe 15 separate characters..
They would be giving the fans what they want, and for the most part, its high quality, full articulation of the beautiful G1 figures we love. "As well as other branches of the TF fandom."
If the 3rd parties can do it, then don't give me the B.S. about safety standards, thats the biggest damn set of lies Ive ever heard. As you can have them shoot real pellets out if youd like as long as the package reads for ages 18 and over.
It works for Matty Collector, and I know their sells are impressive!
So stop bashing the real fans out there that just want what they desrve, awesome toys/collectibles. Because every person I see bashing another fan for supporting 3rd parties in my book, is not a fdan, but a Hasbro employee.
Or maybe even something more hideous, a Paypal employee!!!! Ughhhhh..
Last time I checked this site was for fans, thats why I even gave a look. So you pretend lawyers, an old collectors who have been out of it for 20 years as well as the just plain annoying arseholes that want to put someone else down so they can feel that small shred of importance... Give it a rest..
Hasbro can hang themselves, because we're gonna get what we want one way or the other, and I will always be around to help other fans get theirs as well. They closed KO toys, but ya know what Hasbro, I'm not going anywhere!
But I am starting a boycott on Hasbro, and I will be spending an obscene amount of money on 3rd party toys this year! I-Gear Impossible Toys TFC and so on!!
Agree with me or not, it doesn't matter, because we all have opinions, and whats good for me, might not be good for you. But that doesn't make you wrong or me. It just makes us different, and last I checked, that at least was still legal.
Till All Are One, guys!!

Vicalliose wrote:I agree they should try being original once in a while, even if it clearly will not be good business for them.

Never know, if they do it right it might be good business.

I'm not saying they'll reach a point where they'll be competing with Hasbro, but as a smaller exclusive market it could pay off.

Burn wrote:

Vicalliose wrote:I agree they should try being original once in a while, even if it clearly will not be good business for them.

Never know, if they do it right it might be good business.

I'm not saying they'll reach a point where they'll be competing with Hasbro, but as a smaller exclusive market it could pay off.

Heart Master is being met with mixed feelings. I'm sure allot of people, vocal about it or otherwise, are going to avoid it simply because it appears to be based on nothing. I admire them for taking the risk, but it is still a risk.

Armarauders is pretty much set from the get go. They've got better finances, a promotional strategy and a serious company backing the project. The 3rd party companies are comprised of people who specifically want to make Transformers and have enough talent and experience with the toys themselves to know how. I like FP, they are not the most competitive in the market (that would probably be iGear sadly) but I still always like their products the most, but my hope is that they can actually make it in a legit market someday.

Vicalliose wrote:

Burn wrote:

Vicalliose wrote:I agree they should try being original once in a while, even if it clearly will not be good business for them.

Never know, if they do it right it might be good business.

I'm not saying they'll reach a point where they'll be competing with Hasbro, but as a smaller exclusive market it could pay off.

Heart Master is being met with mixed feelings. I'm sure allot of people, vocal about it or otherwise, are going to avoid it simply because it appears to be based on nothing. I admire them for taking the risk, but it is still a risk.

Armarauders is pretty much set from the get go. They've got better finances, a promotional strategy and a serious company backing the project. The 3rd party companies are comprised of people who specifically want to make Transformers and have enough talent and experience with the toys themselves to know how. I like FP, they are not the most competitive in the market (that would probably be iGear sadly) but I still always like their products the most, but my hope is that they can actually make it in a legit market someday.

I know my situation may not apply to everyone, but with 1400+ Transformers, I'm not about to start collecting other transforming toy lines. I'd be knee deep in Macross, Brave, Mugen and all type of other great toy lines. When I decided to get serious about collecting Transformers (roughly 3 years ago) I sold off any other toy collectibles and a few collectable surfboards and focused. I simply have no inclination for an orignial, non TF universe character with little to zero fiction. The heartmaster would be an exception if it turns out to be a unique character, but only because I hold Fansproject in such high regards.

BUT KEEP IN MIND FANSPROJECT, I for one, will not follow you far from the TF Universe. You know what I'm talking about.

GetRightRobot wrote:I know my situation may not apply to everyone, but with 1400+ Transformers, I'm not about to start collecting other transforming toy lines. I'd be knee deep in Macross, Brave, Mugen and all type of other great toy lines. When I decided to get serious about collecting Transformers (roughly 3 years ago) I sold off any other toy collectibles and a few collectable surfboards and focused. I simply have no inclination for an orignial, non TF universe character with little to zero fiction. The heartmaster would be an exception if it turns out to be a unique character, but only because I hold Fansproject in such high regards.

BUT KEEP IN MIND FANSPROJECT, I for one, will not follow you far from the TF Universe. You know what I'm talking about.

I suppose it helps that I'm not interested in going after vintage G1 figures or the unbelievably massive movie lines. Honestly I've been choosy about the TFPrime figures and I may decide just to sell/trade them off in the end, it's a horrid addiction I admit. But if Fansproject (they'll likely change their name by then) grew to the point where they had a decent fiction and collectable figures series of their own design I might abandon Hasbro altogether.

DISCHARGE wrote:

Dude, if Hasbro gave me Stormtrooper gear you better bet I would wear it.

It's about time. I love it. I'm so tired of 3rd party **** popping up every two hours, I was about to barf.
Keep your fake G1 'reissues' and your overpriced broken toys.

Rated X wrote:

DISCHARGE wrote:

Dude, if Hasbro gave me Stormtrooper gear you better bet I would wear it.

Not quite sure how to take that.
You know I meant that as a general statement that wearing an official Stormtrooper costume made by Hasbro would be fun, right, those helmets are just so cool.

Although I support 3rd party companies I am not at all surprised by this. It makes sense actually.

I take it youre not a WWE fan ???

This video should clue you in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-4HPPChTLk

UltraMason wrote:It's about time. I love it. I'm so tired of 3rd party **** popping up every two hours, I was about to barf.
Keep your fake G1 'reissues' and your overpriced broken toys.

KyleHudson1996 wrote:

God ppl, stop backing up Hasbro b/c we all know they can do better.

Yea, I don't think their pulling their weight here. They have such a potential market for growth through good product production and their just not meeting up to their potential...period. And now to be all big and bad and c__k block 3rd party stuff like this just wreaks of desperation on their part.

THANK YOU! Finally someone agrees with me!

Rated X wrote:I take it youre not a WWE fan ???

This video should clue you in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-4HPPChTLk

Stumpybot wrote:some of the comments ive been reading really make me chuckle.

HASBRO ARE DOING THIS BECAUSE THEYRE JEALOUS, THIRD PARTY COMPANIES PRODUCE BETTER STUFF THAN THEY DO - No they arent, they dont give a **** at all. Theyre a multi-billion company that has to follow safety restrictions and budgeting concerns for the hundreds of different toys they make each year, third parties arent restricted and produce a handful of high end toys so the system is totally different

ITS A HASBRO CONSPIRACY - No it isnt and thats just stupid

ITS THE DEATH OF BOTCON - No it isnt, you just have to order your stuff online and not in the dealer room, hardly the end of the world


Long and short of it is Transformers is a Hasbro IP and Botcon is a hasbro licensed event. Selling toys from companies that have wholesale ripped off their property, allowing them to make money and be promoted at a Hasbro event is taking the piss. Engineering be damned, box art be damned, they are making transforming plastic robots based on Hasbro owned characters. Its their party and they are entitled to do this. there wont be jackbooted stormtroopers with hasbro logos confiscating third party toys at the event, its just saying the sales and promotion of third parties is not allowed.

I know its the in thing to call them Hasblow (which is seriously moronic) and act like theyre the evil corporation, but theyre a business (and please point me to a toy company that doesnt come across as a bunch of arseholes some of the time) and theyre sick of being ripped off and the companies rubbing it in their faces, i dont blame them. And this is coming from a self confessed whore for third party stuff

You sir, get a free beverage of your choice on me if we ever have the opertunity to meet. Very well said.

You know, why doesn't some of these 3rd party compaines do the right thing and contact hasbro and get PERMISSION to use the name and design? Personally, i think that's the right thing to do. Now i don't blame them for seeing a market and going after it. But many of the 3rd party figures (like Hercules) are blannt copies of Has/tak property. The fact that their small and in compared to hasbro is irrelevent. (sure their small NOW, but in 5yrs time...) Its their property thats being used without permission. Its not about being assholes, jerks, being scared or not caring about the fans. Its about protecting whats theirs at their show. I honestly can't see anything wrong with that and to be honest, have yet to see any aurgument other than..
"Hasbro are just being jerks and are scared" (There's nothing that can prove either)

One thing Hasbro doesn’t realize is that Botcon is the one time of year that KIDS DON’T MATTER. Botcon is for collectors. Collectors like Hasbro stuff, but they also like 3rd party stuff. Why hold a convention for collectors if you are going to insult them? 3rd party stuff has been sold at Botcons for years. So why stop now? Is it Hasbro’s way of protesting? Maybe Hasbro should set up tents outside of the hotel and occupy Botcon.

I mean really? This is how they plan to impress collectors? This is how they plan to win them back? All of you who back up Hasbro keep saying they don’t give a crap what collectors want? That is partially true. But why do they hold a Transformers convention every year? Why do they have an official Transformers Collectors Club? Trust me, to a certain extent they do care about fans. But right now they feel embarrassed in front of the fans. And they can’t take it anymore. I’m beginning to think this is not about “intellectual property”. I think this is about egos. This is about Hasbro feeling like they are just an afterthought when it comes to collectors. Sure we buy their stuff, join their fan club, but when we attend Botcon we look them in the eye and be like “meh”. And then we run to the TF Source booth to look at the latest 3rd party prototypes and ask a s**t load of questions like if they were holding a press conference. And this all happens during a Hasbro sponsored convention and they look like a bunch of chumps.

I can’t blame Hasbro for being embarrassed. But they shouldn’t turn that frustration into anger. They need to remember that they are holding a collectors convention. This is not the Romper Room. We are not kids. DO NOT PUNISH US!!!

If you want the collectors respect, try getting it the old fashioned way: EARN IT!!!

Hasbro, make better toys that rival your competition. Give us a Hasbro booth full of prototypes that puts the TF source booth to shame. A booth full of combiners, triple changers, headmasters, Dinobots, etc. STEP UP YOUR GAME!!!

WE DON’T WANT TO SEE A TEN FOOT TALL BUMBLEBEE MADE OUT OF LEGOS!!!

And if you really don’t give a s**t about collectors, than stop acting like you give a s**t about what we do or don’t buy at your convention. You got our $340 admission. Now let us get our moneys worth. F**K CENSORSHIP!!!


Hasbro, I got two words for you:

Stumpybot wrote:some of the comments ive been reading really make me chuckle.

HASBRO ARE DOING THIS BECAUSE THEYRE JEALOUS, THIRD PARTY COMPANIES PRODUCE BETTER STUFF THAN THEY DO - No they arent, they dont give a **** at all. Theyre a multi-billion company that has to follow safety restrictions and budgeting concerns for the hundreds of different toys they make each year, third parties arent restricted and produce a handful of high end toys so the system is totally different

ITS A HASBRO CONSPIRACY - No it isnt and thats just stupid

ITS THE DEATH OF BOTCON - No it isnt, you just have to order your stuff online and not in the dealer room, hardly the end of the world


Long and short of it is Transformers is a Hasbro IP and Botcon is a hasbro licensed event. Selling toys from companies that have wholesale ripped off their property, allowing them to make money and be promoted at a Hasbro event is taking the piss. Engineering be damned, box art be damned, they are making transforming plastic robots based on Hasbro owned characters. Its their party and they are entitled to do this. there wont be jackbooted stormtroopers with hasbro logos confiscating third party toys at the event, its just saying the sales and promotion of third parties is not allowed.

I know its the in thing to call them Hasblow (which is seriously moronic) and act like theyre the evil corporation, but theyre a business (and please point me to a toy company that doesnt come across as a bunch of arseholes some of the time) and theyre sick of being ripped off and the companies rubbing it in their faces, i dont blame them. And this is coming from a self confessed whore for third party stuff

All true. But in the end it makes Hasbro actually come off as a bit whiny and infantile themselves. Because once again, it does not hurt them in any way. BotCon is a club-only fan based event intended to appeal to the collectors, it's not like Toy Fair where it's an actual big business gathering. In fact, the problem with Hasbro's logic in this is that they have indeed pissed people off, which encourages even fewer people to want to go to this already meaningless event. It really just seems like little more than Hasbro waving their over-sized c**k around and saying "we're still the boss". They're in their right to do it but it's still pointless BS.

Also I could point fingers at third party companies which are completely blatant in their IP stealing and KO-ing, but then you have guys like Fans Project who do not use any of names or symbols that belong to Hasrbo's IP and generally try to do what they can to avoid the figures looking too exact to the characters they're based on. Also most of what they've done is upgrade sets which either increases sales for Hasbro or otherwise has no impact whatsoever. But it's all about the "broad strokes" I guess, it's not as if they can enforce against all the KO distribution which no-doubt goes on in there.

5150 Cruiser wrote:You know, why doesn't some of these 3rd party compaines do the right thing and contact hasbro and get PERMISSION to use the name and design? Personally, i think that's the right thing to do. Now i don't blame them for seeing a market and going after it. But many of the 3rd party figures (like Hercules) are blannt copies of Has/tak property. The fact that their small and in compared to hasbro is irrelevent. (sure their small NOW, but in 5yrs time...) Its their property thats being used without permission. Its not about being assholes, jerks, being scared or not caring about the fans. Its about protecting whats theirs at their show. I honestly can't see anything wrong with that and to be honest, have yet to see any aurgument other than..
"Hasbro are just being jerks and are scared" (There's nothing that can prove either)

That is the right thing to do. But have you ever seen the prices of the licenses and legal fees? I can imagine they're pretty high, too high for a small time company with small production runs to consider.

Rated X wrote:One thing Hasbro doesn’t realize is that Botcon is the one time of year that KIDS DON’T MATTER. Botcon is for collectors. Collectors like Hasbro stuff, but they also like 3rd party stuff. Why hold a convention for collectors if you are going to insult them? 3rd party stuff has been sold at Botcons for years. So why stop now? Is it Hasbro’s way of protesting? Maybe Hasbro should set up tents outside of the hotel and occupy Botcon. I mean really? This is how they plan to impress collectors? This is how they plan to win them back? All of you who back up Hasbro keep saying they don’t give a crap what collectors want? That is partially true. But why do they hold a Transformers convention every year? Why do they have an official Transformers Collectors Club? Trust me, to a certain extent they do care about fans. But right now they feel embarrassed in front of the fans. And they can’t take it anymore. I’m beginning to think this is not about “intellectual property”. I think this is about egos. This is about Hasbro feeling like they are just an afterthought when it comes to collectors. Sure we buy their stuff, join their fan club, but when we attend Botcon we look them in the eye and be like “meh”. And then we run to the TF Source booth to look at the latest 3rd party prototypes and ask a s**t load of questions like if they were holding a press conference. And this all happens during a Hasbro sponsored convention and they look like a bunch of chumps.

I can’t blame Hasbro for being embarrassed. But they shouldn’t turn that frustration into anger. They need to remember that they are holding a collectors convention. This is not the Romper Room. We are not kids. DO NOT PUNISH US!!!

If you want the collectors respect, try getting it the old fashioned way: EARN IT!!!

Hasbro, make better toys that rival your competition. Give us a Hasbro booth full of prototypes that puts the TF source booth to shame. A booth full of combiners, triple changers, headmasters, Dinobots, etc. STEP UP YOUR GAME!!!

WE DON’T WANT TO SEE A TEN FOOT TALL BUMBLEBEE MADE OUT OF LEGOS!!!

And if you really don’t give a s**t about collectors, than stop acting like you give a s**t about what we do or don’t buy at your convention. You got our $340 admission. Now let us get our moneys worth. F**K CENSORSHIP!!!

*CENSORED*

And Hasbro wants to keep their collectors' part of the market and not lose it to, in their eyes, some amateur businesses who base their toys off of their IP in some shape or form and thus are nothing more than common thieves. Allowing those "thieves" in would acknowledge Hasbro is giving up, paving the way for bootlegs, dissatisfied customers, loss of market share and in the long run, the end of Transformers as we know it.

And all because some "fans" keep asking "Why we not can haz them, why u not make them?" one too many times, therefore biting the hand that fed them since the very beginning.

Somehow I keep getting reminded of the times of the NES and its third party cartridges like Atari's Tengen, and Nintendo being able to do nothing...