The Energon Pub

I've always wondered this and it is probably why I don't do so well with stepping out of my shell with women.

When you meet a guy would you rather he act really self-confident and showy about himself or would you rather he just act normal?

I know it probably is a stupid question to ask, but it is better to finally ask someone.

A guy should only act showy if he has something to show off. And even then it should be somewhat tempered. And there's a big difference in confidence, which is sexy, and arrogance, which is a turn-off. But then, even if you have a great car or job, which is fantastic, you shouldn't just be like, "hey, look at my car!". It's enough to just have it be there. Trust me, a woman will notice what you have.

Anyway, if you have natural confidence, then you are being your normal self. If you are a bit shy, than any "confidence" you are exuding will probably be anxious and insincere. In that case, being friendly and courteous is all you need. As a shy man gets to know a woman, he'll come out of his shell.

That's easy, act normally, no-one likes people who show off or seem rather full of themselves. Often guys who show off too much can appear to be rather arrogant, even when they are not normally.

It's also far easier to talk to someone who is being honest with you, and I would think that you would be more relaxed and comfortable talking to someone without trying to impress them too much at the same time.

Besides, if you are acting normally and being yourself and they dont like it, then why bother trying to impress them? They obviously arnt worth your time.

Moonbase2, that does address some parts of my question. I guess I wasn't being as specific as I needed.

To be honest, there is a girl at a store that I bought decor for my apartment that seemed to be flirting with me. I'm wondering if, in a general woman's opinion, it is distasteful for a guy to go back in the store and ask her out.

If she says no, I'm thinking that it is no big deal because it isn't a store that I am at all the time (like Best Buy is), but I was just wondering if an average woman would view a guy that does that as a creep or not.

Predaprince wrote:Moonbase2, that does address some parts of my question. I guess I wasn't being as specific as I needed.

To be honest, there is a girl at a store that I bought decor for my apartment that seemed to be flirting with me. I'm wondering if, in a general woman's opinion, it is distasteful for a guy to go back in the store and ask her out.

If she says no, I'm thinking that it is no big deal because it isn't a store that I am at all the time (like Best Buy is), but I was just wondering if an average woman would view a guy that does that as a creep or not.

No. Unless she flirts with every male customer in there, it was obvious she liked you enough to flirt. It's worth a try. Go in and buy some little thing, ask her what she thinks of it. Then just have a conversation from there (if she isn't very busy). Just smile a lot, don't look at her chest (if a woman isn't showing them off, don't look!), and be friendly. If all goes well, ask if she'd like to go to a movie or dinner. The worst she can say is no, and you can never go back.

Go for it. It's not a stupid question. I feel that way all the time myself. It feels unnatural to you to just go back and ask her out, so it seems like it would be creepy to her.

Well, not if you walk in there, look her right in the eye with a smile and say "Hey how are you?" Then start in the small talk and then ask her out, balls to the wall.

"What are you doing Friday night? Why don't you come [do such and such thing] with me?" BAM. Don't say "Can I take you out?" That's too 20th century.

It's all about body language too. Lean on the counter a little bit. Relax.


And most importantly, don't hang out in the sidelines waiting for the line of customers to go away. That is creepy. Even if you pretend to be looking at stuff. You better get used to it right now. You may have to do this thing in front of people. If they're all guys, you'll be a hero. If they're not, don't worry about it. You never have to see them again.

If you're in line, you can see how she treats everyone else.

If she's busy, don't do it. Buy your thing, make small talk, and then come back later. How later? Not too soon, not too late.

Good luck.

Predaprince wrote:I've always wondered this and it is probably why I don't do so well with stepping out of my shell with women.

When you meet a guy would you rather he act really self-confident and showy about himself or would you rather he just act normal?

I know it probably is a stupid question to ask, but it is better to finally ask someone.

First rule of women, they don't know what it is they want, they only know it when they "feel" it.

You ask them what they like in a man, and consciously or sub-consciously, they will try to manipulate you, it's just the way they're built.

I want you to compeltely ignore everything that anyone claiming to be female tells you about women or relationships.

Now, if you have to ask, then you're over-thinking it.
If you're doing that, then you may very well need help.

The best thing you can do is to go google "David De Angelo" and subscribe to his newsletter.
Don't buy the book, or the DVDs, or anyting else. Just subscribe to his newsletter, read a few of them, and then decide what you want to do at that point. (feel free to buy his stuff at this point, I just recommend waiting for a few emails so you have a good idea what he is selling)

homelessjunkeon wrote:

Predaprince wrote:I've always wondered this and it is probably why I don't do so well with stepping out of my shell with women.

When you meet a guy would you rather he act really self-confident and showy about himself or would you rather he just act normal?

I know it probably is a stupid question to ask, but it is better to finally ask someone.

First rule of women, they don't know what it is they want, they only know it when they "feel" it.

You ask them what they like in a man, and consciously or sub-consciously, they will try to manipulate you, it's just the way they're built.

I want you to compeltely ignore everything that anyone claiming to be female tells you about women or relationships.

Now, if you have to ask, then you're over-thinking it.
If you're doing that, then you may very well need help.

The best thing you can do is to go google "David De Angelo" and subscribe to his newsletter.
Don't buy the book, or the DVDs, or anyting else. Just subscribe to his newsletter, read a few of them, and then decide what you want to do at that point. (feel free to buy his stuff at this point, I just recommend waiting for a few emails so you have a good idea what he is selling)

Sounds like you just copied and pasted one of his newsletters right there.


And I hate that additude, that all women are manipulative, even if they don't know it.

The reality is that men and women have different biological instincts, and also feel pressure to fit into different social molds. Clashes are inevitable.

And people of both sexes are manipulative. One of my good friends from college was openly manipulative to me, mostly toward the end of our time living together. Two straight dudes. I have a submissive personality. We were both under stress and he turned into a complete dick. It just happened. We didn't speak for a long time after.

It's bound to happen in relationships as well. And they say the same thing about us.


Women aren't manipulative bitches. However, it has been scientifically proven that guys are actually more emotionally sensitive than women, but we are all afraid to show it.

Dark Zarak wrote:And I hate that additude, that all women are manipulative, even if they don't know it.

It's not an attitude, it's a fact. Women are programmed to dole out silly tests to determine the worthiness of a potential mate.

Okay that just rubs me wrong. First, a woman knows what she wants just as often as a man does, we just tend to express it in different ways. Second, men are also just as manipulative as women so the pot shouldnt be calling the kettle black.

You obviously want to ask her out. Make sure she isnt wearing a wedding ring first. If she is then its definatly just professional flirting. Try and start up conversation to see if you share some similar interests. Common ground can go a long way. Be yourself, honesty goes a lot farther and longer than a show. But try not to start conversation or ask her out when shes busy. All that will accomplish is to annoy her. If she seems nervous about going out alone with you, try for a more public setting. Meeting at the mall or a coffee shop after work. Somewhere she can easily walk away from if things go bad.

homelessjunkeon wrote:

Dark Zarak wrote:And I hate that additude, that all women are manipulative, even if they don't know it.

It's not an attitude, it's a fact. Women are programmed to dole out silly tests to determine the worthiness of a potential mate.

David D. is all about teaching you how to attract the alpha females who can have everything they want and any guy. Of course they would test.

Meanwhile, back on Earth, everyone else is more or less equal.

It's programmed in women to test out mates, of course! Back in caveman days, if we didn't select a proper mate we might die. And now, it's still there, the need to find a suitable mate. I find nothing wrong with it, because most of the time it's the man that is the breadwinner, and you have to look out for yourself and your babies.

I looked through some of the deAngelo guy's stuff. Eh. He was talking about how you can take a woman out to do something that is free, so you can avoid expensive dates. Well, if you're wanting to attract an alpha female, good luck with that if you're gonna be cheap. When my husband and I were dating, he spent a fortune on dinners and movies, even though he didn't make a lot of money. It showed that he valued me enough to show me a great time, without being a complete cheapskate. I didn't really care about him spending money on me; it was something he wanted to do for me. And because he was generous and showed that I was worth more than money, I have remained with him for five years and counting. And believe me, we are FAR from rich. Money didn't buy this broad; his generousity did.

I'm not saying that money should buy you a woman, I'm saying that she has to be more important than your damn wallet. If you are gonna ask a girl on a date, I believe you should pick up the tab because you asked her out.

Sorry, I went on a rant there. But I can't stand that crap. And no man knows how to pick up EVERY woman. Women are difficult for men, and men are difficult for women.

Moonbase2 wrote:It's programmed in women to test out mates, of course! Back in caveman days, if we didn't select a proper mate we might die. And now, it's still there, the need to find a suitable mate. I find nothing wrong with it, because most of the time it's the man that is the breadwinner, and you have to look out for yourself and your babies.

Now, I do need to point out that I never said there is anything wrong with it. It's how we evolved.
I intended my previous statement to be taken as a matter of fact, not as some kind of judgement on women.

homelessjunkeon wrote:

Moonbase2 wrote:It's programmed in women to test out mates, of course! Back in caveman days, if we didn't select a proper mate we might die. And now, it's still there, the need to find a suitable mate. I find nothing wrong with it, because most of the time it's the man that is the breadwinner, and you have to look out for yourself and your babies.

Now, I do need to point out that I never said there is anything wrong with it. It's how we evolved.
I intended my previous statement to be taken as a matter of fact, not as some kind of judgement on women.

You're cool. And some "tests" can be really dumb.

Don't get me wrong. I like DeAngelo. I've paid money for his ebook and many of the interviews he does with guys who are good with women and alpha women themselves.

Some of his advice makes a lot of sense, and it has changed the way I think about dating. For the better so far.


But it has to be taken with a grain of salt, like a lot of things. You can't make the mistake of "every woman this, every woman that". It's stupid. Men and women have varying IQ's and life experiences. They will have different reactions to different things.

Moonbase was impressed with her man's placement of her above his money. Fair enough. Some women of equal intelligence would be insulted or at least bothered by a man spending a lot of money on her. Neither is right or wrong. Just a small example of differences.

Moonbase2 wrote:And some "tests" can be really dumb.

Such as? (i.e. what should I look out for? )

Moonbase was impressed with her man's placement of her above his money. Fair enough. Some women of equal intelligence would be insulted or at least bothered by a man spending a lot of money on her. Neither is right or wrong. Just a small example of differences.

Right, some women don't want men to spend a lot of money on them, because women then feel obligated to sleep with the man, like she was bought. I completely understand that. But that's not how it went with me. Before my husband, no guy ever bothered to take me out for a nice dinner or movies, and he did. I have become quite the alpha female over the years, and I value money a lot, but people I care about always win out (as they should, duh)

Such as? (i.e. what should I look out for? )

Let me sleep on that, as my brain is about to shut down from meds I have to take. But I'll get back to ya on that!

I swear, reading all that advice they give to men about women sometimes makes me wonder if I'm entitled to be female.

I hate having anyone spend money on me, for instance. At best, I feel obligated to give an equal amount of gift in return, and at worst I feel guilty because I received something I didn't earn.

Plus, I want to be able to take care of myself; I shouldn't need someone else to take care of me. As long as the man can take of his own finances, he makes enough money.

And I am never, ever manipulative. I know I like knowing exactly where I stand with someone, so I give honesty as well.

(Then again, I am definitely not the sort of alpha woman who can get any guy I want, or any guy at all, for that matter, so... maybe that has something to do with it all. )

In any case, I agree with the advice of acting normally. As cliche as it might sound, if a woman doesn't love you the way you really are, then in the long run it's not going to be worth it.

Jeysie wrote:I swear, reading all that advice they give to men about women sometimes makes me wonder if I'm entitled to be female.

I hate having anyone spend money on me, for instance. At best, I feel obligated to give an equal amount of gift in return, and at worst I feel guilty because I received something I didn't earn.

Plus, I want to be able to take care of myself; I shouldn't need someone else to take care of me. As long as the man can take of his own finances, he makes enough money.

And I am never, ever manipulative. I know I like knowing exactly where I stand with someone, so I give honesty as well.

(Then again, I am definitely not the sort of alpha woman who can get any guy I want, or any guy at all, for that matter, so... maybe that has something to do with it all. )

In any case, I agree with the advice of acting normally. As cliche as it might sound, if a woman doesn't love you the way you really are, then in the long run it's not going to be worth it.

Back when had a gf, I would buy meals just because I'm a nice guy. I never thought of it as an obligation or as way to manipulate. Even if it is with friends, I might sometines buy just of a niceness.

Btw, back to the original topic, I stopped off at the store finally again today, but the woman in question wasn't working there. No big deal, I saw some stuff and purchased anyway so I'm not going to turn it into stalking or anything stupid. If I feel like going back a different day I will, but whatever.

I'm an alpha female, but I ain't paying for any dude's dinner. I'll cook dinner, but I'm not paying for anything. But I'm married, and don't have to worry about that anyway.

I can see paying for yourself if you both agreed to go out together, but not if the guy asked the girl. If that makes sense. Those are the dating rules according to me.

Moonbase2 wrote:I'm an alpha female, but I ain't paying for any dude's dinner. I'll cook dinner, but I'm not paying for anything. But I'm married, and don't have to worry about that anyway.

I can see paying for yourself if you both agreed to go out together, but not if the guy asked the girl. If that makes sense. Those are the dating rules according to me.

So what if you stepped up to a man? I personally find it odd we in society usually put the guy in the near-immutable chase position in society while the women just sit back and browse.

DesalationReborn wrote:

Moonbase2 wrote:I'm an alpha female, but I ain't paying for any dude's dinner. I'll cook dinner, but I'm not paying for anything. But I'm married, and don't have to worry about that anyway.

I can see paying for yourself if you both agreed to go out together, but not if the guy asked the girl. If that makes sense. Those are the dating rules according to me.

So what if you stepped up to a man? I personally find it odd we in society usually put the guy in the near-immutable chase position in society while the women just sit back and browse.

That is our nature. See, back in olden times men chased the women, and women chose the men. That's the way it's always been (except in some societies, where women are married off by parents). Now, in the case of a women coming up to a man and asking him out on a date, which is a bit against our nature, I still don't think a man should agree assuming she's picking up the tab for a lavish dinner. Hell, I'd make that clear upfront, unless that's just the woman's thing to pay for dude's dinners.

For one thing, men almost always make more than women, at least by a certain age. It's ridiculous if a girl that works as a secretary asks a guy that's maybe a software programmer (don't know what they make, but anyway) and is paid a lot less to pay for a date. It's just kind of icky and looks bad on the man's part. He should step up to the plate and at least pay for his damn self.

Hey, I love men (not literally, mind you!), when they aren't complete slack-offs and/or pervs, as you can see by my presence on this site, and there are some things that, while being so-called "outdated" just are best left as they are. An alpha I may be, at least when it comes to who I am as a person.

Moonbase2 wrote:

DesalationReborn wrote:

Moonbase2 wrote:I'm an alpha female, but I ain't paying for any dude's dinner. I'll cook dinner, but I'm not paying for anything. But I'm married, and don't have to worry about that anyway.

I can see paying for yourself if you both agreed to go out together, but not if the guy asked the girl. If that makes sense. Those are the dating rules according to me.

So what if you stepped up to a man? I personally find it odd we in society usually put the guy in the near-immutable chase position in society while the women just sit back and browse.

That is our nature. See, back in olden times men chased the women, and women chose the men. That's the way it's always been (except in some societies, where women are married off by parents). Now, in the case of a women coming up to a man and asking him out on a date, which is a bit against our nature, I still don't think a man should agree assuming she's picking up the tab for a lavish dinner. Hell, I'd make that clear upfront, unless that's just the woman's thing to pay for dude's dinners.

For one thing, men almost always make more than women, at least by a certain age. It's ridiculous if a girl that works as a secretary asks a guy that's maybe a software programmer (don't know what they make, but anyway) and is paid a lot less to pay for a date. It's just kind of icky and looks bad on the man's part. He should step up to the plate and at least pay for his damn self.

Hey, I love men (not literally, mind you!), when they aren't complete slack-offs and/or pervs, as you can see by my presence on this site, and there are some things that, while being so-called "outdated" just are best left as they are. An alpha I may be, at least when it comes to who I am as a person.

Meh. General inclination isn't all it's meant to be-- it can be overcome if wished. I could probably eat nothing but 5 boxes of ho-hos per day for the next 3 months, but I can fight the attraction to sugary goods. Nature and inclination doesn't define the right course of action. I would agree with actual biologicals and items where personality, however. For the first year at least, a child needs the woman to be a stay-at-home parent, and I personally know I'd have killed myself if my father had been a stay-at-home dad.

Don't really care about cost-- not all men make more than women. Having people of the lower wage pay isn't really that odd-- I've ended up on that side besides.

I dunno, I've never once been asked out on a date by a guy, though I've asked several guys out on dates. (Only one ever said yes, though.)

And I don't see why it's so horrible to ask a man out or pay for a date, especially if you're the "alpha female". My male best friend and I pretty much trade off... we go dutch when we can, or whoever has the most ready cash pays for the outing. One could argue that a woman who makes more money but insists that the man pay for her anyway is being a "slack-off".

And children don't need a "stay-at-home" mom, either. Due to my parents' work schedules, I was more or less raised by my dad, and I got along better with him than I did my mom (since my dad and I were both geeks, whereas my mom is rather clueless about techie stuff).

In short, I don't see why we should adhere tenaciously to the "old roles" regarding gender. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't; it all depends on the individuals involved.

Well, let me kind of explain my definition of "alpha female", or rather, how I see myself as one. And keep in mind that not all "alpha females" are exactly alike. For one, I did stay home with both children. In fact, until next week I've stayed home for over three years now. But I do not think that every woman should HAVE to do it. It is my opinion of that matter that makes me somewhat non-traditional, even if my actions were otherwise. (Also, I could not afford to put them in daycare til now, so it would've been a while back that I would've been working).

I think many women are too weak. They allow themselves to be controlled or manipulated by men or others, or sob at the slightest problem. Or they won't take responsibility for their own lives, or let another person, namely a man, become the complete focus of their lives. For example, we're in the army, and it seems that most army wives use their husband's profession as their own identity. I am married to a soldier, but I am my own person. I have my own interests and keep my husband's job out of it. Also, I have started my own business from utter scratch less than a year ago, and next week, I open for business. Most women don't have the, ahem, balls to attempt such a thing. Too scary.

But back to dating--I have had very few boyfriends, and of course back in high school there wasn't much money to speak of at all, but the first major boyfriend I had was a slacker and I very often paid for his meals. What a joke. My husband, as I mentioned, didn't ask that of me and refused to ever let me pay. And considering how poor I was, that was much appreciated.