The Energon Pub

Mmmmm.....Fudge;;)

Sonray wrote:

Burn wrote:
Exactly. It's impossible to compare Transformers to Spider-Man or Batman.

Yes, there's been different takes on Spidey and Bats, but however the core titles and core story have remained the same.

Transformers hasn't.

How hasnt it?

errrrr various post G1-series perhaps? (Which I was referring to)

At the core of those series though things have remained the same, TF's come from Cybertron, they transform, Prime's an over-sensitive fleshbag loving leader and Megatron is a maniacal evil bastard hell bent on power.

But with each series a different story is told, the characters look different, some characterisations are similar but are tweaked to fit in with the story.

Batman/Spider-Man haven't had different series, they've had different takes on them (like Ultimate Spider-Man, Batman cartoon) but they haven't gone through changes on the scale Transformers have.

The movies can remain faithful to the comics because those guys have essentially only had one core mythology.

Some could say Transformers has G1 as a core mythology, but contrary to popular belief, it's not. G1 was just the first in a series of different TF universes. G1 it's self has had the cartoon mythology, the Marvel comic mythology, the DW comic mythology and now the IDW mythology.

So how can any TF movie expect to remain faithful to the core TF mythology when there's so many different mythology's?

From what i've seen I think they've done a pretty good job of incorporating some of the constant core components of mythology as well as changing things enough for it to be a new universe that will appeal to more than just a bunch of fans.

Do I expect this movie to be perfect? Nope. But then again, i've yet to encounter a perfect TF mythology. There's always going to be something I don't like about each take on TF's. I just learn to look past those flaws and appreciate the really good bits.

But to compare this movie to the likes of the Batman and Spider-Man movies? Not fair at all.

Sonray wrote:stupid camaro

That's an oxymoron. There's no such thing as a stupid Camaro.

Camaro's are fueled by KICKASS.

Shadowman wrote:

Sonray wrote:stupid camaro

That's an oxymoron. There's no such thing as a stupid Camaro.

Camaro's are fueled by KICKASS.

Thats why we don't have Camaro's in Australia... We don't have any KICKASS fuel bowsers at our petrol stations

Why is it everytime someone voices dislikes something about the movie they are called names and derided as an idiot? So someone disagrees with you, big deal. Let whoever they are voice their opinion and let it be. Damn.

Emperor Galvatron wrote:Why is it everytime someone voices dislikes something about the movie they are called names and derided as an idiot? So someone disagrees with you, big deal. Let whoever they are voice their opinion and let it be. Damn.

As a "movie supporter" i've been called some pretty good names simply because I didn't jump on the hate wagon.

So don't presume it's just the haters getting called derogatory things.

the movie hate baffles me, sure I wish Prime was faceplate only but it not the first time (BW, BM, Cyb. hell probably more) and Megatron is an alien jet (better than a batmoblie mode) Transformers has changed constantly over the years and this is no different, Its not a G1 film we had that, its a live action Transformers film.

As for the Bay factor, so what if its going to be a stupid action movie, I wouldn't have it any other way, remember Hulk? yeah taking an action orientated franchise and turn it into a character study worked real well on that one.
Plus it can hardly be worse than Spidey 3

I agree it's not quite fair to expect Transformers to be as "easy" to translate into a movie as the more core-consistent Spiderman or Batman franchises, but christ... is it not safe to say that deviating this far from the original deal wasn't the way to go?

When you think "Megatron", does the dominant image which pops into your head look like a green alligator?
Does it look like a purple and black, Robots in Disguise bat/jet/dragon/car thing?

Or do you see big-chested ol' Megatron?

Granted, there's a decent amount of reasons he's no longer a tiny human hand weapon, but what in the hell is he now?

When you think of Starscream, is your first mental vision that of a purple&silver jet, a cybernetic shark, a black bomber?

Or do you see a red, gray and blue jet?

Why? Why don't you relate those names to those images?
Because they were good the first time around... which is why those initial core designs and character makeups are CONSTANTLY revisited, more than 20 years later.

It doesn't matter if there's been a few dozen craptastic, toy-selling incarnations out there... I fail to see how that fact warrants absolutely unfaithful crap to torment all that which made the original source enjoyable.

You know what also gets me?
Fine, it's a new generation, a new audience must be addressed who live inside a different era & public mindset... you could still just take the initial origin episodes of the cartoon, THOUGHTFULLY update it, and it would, if done by people who aren't morons, become godly.
Would someone be able to take this movie 25 years from now & update it so anyone could give a rat's ass?

Gutsman Heavy wrote:Plus it can hardly be worse than Spidey 3

Spiderman 3 was a total riot!

There's hate but then there's criticism. Big difference there, particularly in that criticism is merely another form of caring. Sure, there's been some nasty slagging out there that easily qualifies as hate, but is it fair to label someone with a critical view a 'hater?' Common people let's not be so narrow!

Look at this whole argument on a human level...

A man can be a successful entrepeneur, a self-made millionaire, CEO of a large corporation.

BUT, just because his son harbors a similar character trait or two and has the same last name... they could be wife-beaters, crackheads, or people who think MTV's Real World is fine art.

Point is, they're NOT the same person as their father.
At some point in their developement, something clearly went wrong... almost certainly because someone at some point didn't give a damn about their proper developement.


Too abstract, or does anyone else see what I mean?

I see what you mean, but the son could still be a person who is both different and good. In such an instance, nothing would have been wrong with their development. There would be no problem.

Why can't that be applied to Transformers, as well?

I really don't see how this movie has deviated that far from the original. Sonray listed a few elements that have been kept over from G1. There's perhaps stuff from other lines I'm not as familiar with that has been translated, as well. Even Starscream is an F22 Raptor in the film, the contemporary equivalent of his original F15 form, just in realistic colours.

Riotflea wrote:When you think "Megatron", does the dominant image which pops into your head look like a green alligator?
Does it look like a purple and black, Robots in Disguise bat/jet/dragon/car thing?

Or do you see big-chested ol' Megatron?

I tend to think of a T-Rex Megatron first. Then the rest.

When you think of Starscream, is your first mental vision that of a purple&silver jet, a cybernetic shark, a black bomber?

Or do you see a red, gray and blue jet?

I just hear a whiney voice and remember his mad desire for power.

Why? Why don't you relate those names to those images?
Because they were good the first time around... which is why those initial core designs and character makeups are CONSTANTLY revisited, more than 20 years later.

If by constant you mean the use of the names then yeah, wanting to hold onto the copyright will do that.

If by constant you mean Classics and a smidgen of A/E/C, 'cause I really don't recall many other appearances, then yeah. Probably constant.

Personally though I don't see a constant revisiting. I just see Hasbro re-using names to maintain copyrights.

It doesn't matter if there's been a few dozen craptastic, toy-selling incarnations out there... I fail to see how that fact warrants absolutely unfaithful crap to torment all that which made the original source enjoyable.

I've found flaws in every series but have still managed to enjoy them. And I do see enough of what's been before in this movie to make it Transformers for me.

You know what also gets me?
Fine, it's a new generation, a new audience must be addressed who live inside a different era & public mindset... you could still just take the initial origin episodes of the cartoon, THOUGHTFULLY update it, and it would, if done by people who aren't morons, become godly.
Would someone be able to take this movie 25 years from now & update it so anyone could give a rat's ass?

If they wanted to base it on G1 yeah sure.

But you must have missed the memo where this isn't based on G1. New universe, new start. I really don't get why people have trouble with that. It's been the same with every series, why get up in arms now? Why didn't people jump up and down with the origins in Armada?

I really don't see how this movie has deviated that far from the original. Sonray listed a few elements that have been kept over from G1. There's perhaps stuff from other lines I'm not as familiar with that has been translated, as well. Even Starscream is an F22 Raptor in the film, the contemporary equivalent of his original F15 form, just in realistic colours.

Well technically, if you're saying it's "faithful enough"... can it not be said the nightmarish American Godzilla film was "faithful"?

But it didn't work. It was a joke and the unsold toys nearly (did?) kill Trendmasters.

Why did it fail so bad? You had the human hero, the military, the monster, the secret weapon... so why'd it blow?

Ah... poopy script.
Far too great a deviation from original designs. (But they were more realistic and CGI-heavy!)

Why didn't people jump up and down with the origins in Armada?

Because it wasn't an original work like G1 or Beast Wars.
It was Digimon with robots... and REALLY annoying, less realistic brats than Spike had been.
Besides, Transformers DIED for alot of us back when Monstercons, Throttlebots, Pretenders and Microbots started popping up.
We were still in our shells, not yet realizing there was a true commitment being made to seriously revive the vehicle franchise.

And this movie? It's just a CGI fest, like Armada it's also not an original work. (cookie-cuttered crap)

Riotflea wrote:

I really don't see how this movie has deviated that far from the original. Sonray listed a few elements that have been kept over from G1. There's perhaps stuff from other lines I'm not as familiar with that has been translated, as well. Even Starscream is an F22 Raptor in the film, the contemporary equivalent of his original F15 form, just in realistic colours.

[...]

Ah... poopy script.
Far too great a deviation from original designs. (But they were more realistic and CGI-heavy!)

But we don't know that the final script for TF is going to be poopy. It might be good.

Also, I've said why I don't think that this movie deviates from original ideas (as you yourself quoted).

Riotflea wrote:Because it wasn't an original work like G1 or Beast Wars.
It was Digimon with robots... and REALLY annoying, less realistic brats than Spike had been.
Besides, Transformers DIED for alot of us back when Monstercons, Throttlebots, Pretenders and Microbots started popping up.

Beast Wars wasn't original. It was a good cartoon, but its premise and execution still borrowed from G1. BW wasn't any more original than Armada.

The G1 cartoon wasn't terribly original, either. It was a generic Eighties cartoon. It was poorly written and used story elements or plots used in various other cartoons and comics.

Leonardo wrote:But we don't know that the final script for TF is going to be poopy. It might be good.

Beast Wars wasn't original. It was a good cartoon, but its premise and execution still borrowed from G1. BW wasn't any more original than Armada.

... ... ...yeesh. I think I'm done arguing with you, about anything.

Riotflea wrote:

Leonardo wrote:But we don't know that the final script for TF is going to be poopy. It might be good.

Beast Wars wasn't original. It was a good cartoon, but its premise and execution still borrowed from G1. BW wasn't any more original than Armada.

... ... ...yeesh. I think I'm done arguing with you, about anything.

Why? Because I'm right?

Why? Because I'm right?

Riotflea wrote:

Why? Because I'm right?

Are you going to elaborate? I can't view that link at work.

It's a guy in a Megatron costume using a Megatron sword to stab another guy in the groin.

From the looks of things, you won Leo. How else can you explain someone resorting to cheap tacky pictures?

i want to say a couple of things

one: this thread has gotten way out of hand really fast

two: can someone close this thread please