The Energon Pub

Sportimus Prime wrote:

Starscreams bad comedy wrote:

its not my fault I can't go this year, and get stuff at a cheap rate just by being there.. I have a company to run..most of us have to work or are just unable to afford to go.. then they charge over 200.00 for the repaint sets, and expect us to just abide by it, because of production costs?? how much does Paint cost these days!!!!???

Ya, I mean its not like the guy in the sweat shop in china who is air brushing them makes a ton of money.

Be careful there. In our standards, they don't. But over there, it's a great gig. If it weren't, they wouldn't be doing it otherwise.

Not so long ago (maybe a couple of months ago), there was a news story about jobs going overseas. A lot of the workers are thrilled since they can now afford a lot more things in their country because of those "sweat shops". What we percieve is different than what they percieve. I personally wish none of our products were made in other countries, but that's simply not going to happen.

Thats because Americans are greedy as a whole. Look at the companies running this country.... Were guilty of it to. We want higher pay and want to do less work for it! It's a sign of the times. Like all great nations before us we too will fall it is only a matter of time. Hell the chinese are secretly buying parts of our banks all across the US is anyone concerned about this of course not. Well be speaking chinese soon... I the end it all comes down to the almighty dollar and how much can I make and that in turn will be are downfall....To bad because we are the greatest country on earth and we could fix the problem but know one cares or wants to.... so sad in my book!!!!
Before I get flammed about this I am American just to let everyone know that.....

Counterpunch wrote:

skywarp-2 wrote:Defend it all you like Counterpunch

hrm?

me?

I don't have to defend anything. I have two sets.

Boxed! with all the exclusives! for the low, low price of $280 per box. I even got to go to the convention for free with that purchase.

I'm shocked, capital 'SHHH', that these are selling for more now.

It's inconceivable!

I got two of the souvenier sets too. I hope they go for more too, wouldn't that be a hoot?

oooo, you sir are just the worst kind of person


I so want that set. It's killing me not having it.

I'm just gonna blow my years pay on the coneheads and TC.

The Master Blaster wrote:oooo, you sir are just the worst kind of person

I've been told that 5 times thus far at BotCon.

(and there's two more days to go!!!)

It would be extremely hilarious if Hasbro ended up releasing the seekers in classics somehow. I'm sure they won't do it, but it would be really funny for all those who paid over $300 for a set only to see all their peers who couldn't afford them or didn't want to have similar toys for a fraction of the cost. They'd probably be complaining much more or worse than those who didn't get the sets.

But really there's nothing more I can't stand than someone coming into a thread going "STOP YOUR BITCHING I HATE COMPLAINING"... You knew what this thread was going in.

tacogrande wrote:It would be extremely hilarious if Hasbro ended up releasing the seekers in classics somehow. I'm sure they won't do it, but it would be really funny for all those who paid over $300 for a set only to see all their peers who couldn't afford them or didn't want to have similar toys for a fraction of the cost. They'd probably be complaining much more or worse than those who didn't get the sets.

Nice!!! i like the way you think!!!

tacogrande wrote:But really there's nothing more I can't stand than someone coming into a thread going "STOP YOUR BITCHING I HATE COMPLAINING"... You knew what this thread was going in.

Finally!!! someone put into words what needed to be said all along!!! Don't like the heat, then don't come into the kitchen in the first place!!!!

skywarp-2 wrote:

tacogrande wrote:It would be extremely hilarious if Hasbro ended up releasing the seekers in classics somehow. I'm sure they won't do it, but it would be really funny for all those who paid over $300 for a set only to see all their peers who couldn't afford them or didn't want to have similar toys for a fraction of the cost. They'd probably be complaining much more or worse than those who didn't get the sets.

Nice!!! i like the way you think!!!

tacogrande wrote:But really there's nothing more I can't stand than someone coming into a thread going "STOP YOUR BITCHING I HATE COMPLAINING"... You knew what this thread was going in.

Finally!!! someone put into words what needed to be said all along!!! Don't like the heat, then don't come into the kitchen in the first place!!!!

Is the kitchen the place they send you when you can't pay the bill?

As I said before it isn't the cost that is bothersome but rather the choice of characters. Lets be realistic here people. Are we really complaining about the cost of Botcon exclusives? No, no one complained last year. Why? Because those that couldn't or wouldn't pay didn't want the characters offered.

Yep I brought this up before. Though last years botcon set was really awesome the ones before were always just repainted toys with new character names. Like packrat the blue rattrap or apelinq the purple primal figure. People still bought them, maybe not as in demand as these but it still brought people and made money. Plus it was their own thing. It was also totally different because it didn't complete a set of figures that were started and retail and finished as exclusives, like the seekers.

I could have bought the set this year, I even started a thread asking if I should. Ultimately I decided not to, because as I was about to fax my order I realized I was spending an amount on one set of toys that most people could use as grocery money for months. I didn't want to be like that. Though I am a hippocrite becuase I did just spend $250 on MP Megatron and Prime, but I'll admit I hated losing that money too, I debated with myself like I had dual personalities. At least in that case I felt the quality matched the price, whereas here it's the same offerings as the $10 counterparts at retail.

Whatever, I'm really glad for those who did bite the bullet and buy them!

I don't see why one should be deprived of the chance to experience the characters they love simply because of nationality.

Why not offer worldwide shipping at an increased price?

skywarp-2 wrote:ok so in what 5 years, judging by the state of inflation, the Botcon sets are going to be like what a Grand!!!!

On ebay the 2007 Botcon set, bid starting at $520.00!!!!! Loose Bagged version.. not even the real boxed set!!!!

Screw that f-ing Shite!! What a f-ing ripp off, see this kinda F-ing Shite is why i can't stand crap like this!!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/BotCon-2007-Transfo ... dZViewItem

Defend it all you like Counterpunch, I still say the Botcon exclusives are too freakin Expensive, and should have been made for all fans.. this bites!!!!!

Those prices have nothing to do with Botcon and everything to do with scalpers. Don't bash Hasbro or Botcon because some one bought a set and then started reselling it for a higher price. The fact that sets are selling for those prices however proves that Botcon could have charged even more then they did and still sold them. Botcon prices have actually remained mostly unchanged for hte last five years. In fact price per unit has actually gone down some since 2003.

Rip offs like this on ebay really piss me off.. and not only that its what a sign of the times nowadays!!!! I hope this crap brings the franchise to its knees and causes serious changes to occur, like with what happened in the comics industry when in the 1990s there were too many exclusive covers and such and it became a hobby that was tiring and expensive and not worth it anymore, thats another reason i quit comics, and this stupid Botcon stuff is sending me that way with this hobby..!!!

Thats not going to happen here though, because there aren't enough exclusives to go around. The prices are the result of the items truly being "Exclusive" as opposed to be mass produced and jsut having that label stuck on them. They are exactly what Botcon wants them to be. Its proving to be a sound business decision for them, which as a club member I applaud since more profits means better stuff for us in the future.

Defend this crap all you like, it still doesn't negate the fact that there are like a Bazillion exclusives being released this year and on top of that the Hot Rodimus alternators figure also became an exclusive for the SDCC comic con, and sells on eBay for like 55.00 MISB.. what a rip off considering it'll be available to order from Hasbro's own toyshop!!!...

You complain about it being sold for $55 by an Ebay seller, then mention that it will be sold by HTS. Well then skip the ebay seller and buy it from the store. Its only a rip off if you let yourself be ripped off. To blame the seller because you were stupid and paid the price when you knew it would be available cheaper is simply shifting the blame to the wrong the person.

Forget the Disgruntled Brits, what about us disgruntled Non-Botcon Attendees??

its not my fault I can't go this year, and get stuff at a cheap rate just by being there.. I have a company to run..most of us have to work or are just unable to afford to go.. then they charge over 200.00 for the repaint sets, and expect us to just abide by it, because of production costs?? how much does Paint cost these days!!!!???

At least with the Masterpiece line up i can get a decent and pretty detailed figure at like what 88.00 to 100.00... While a repaint box set that includes figure originally sold in US stores for like 10.00 a piece, which have been repainted are now 50.00 a piece!!!

First its more then jsut repainting on a few of them. Second when producing a smaller batch ( in this case 1400 as opposed to several hundred thousand as Hasbro does) the costs per unit goes up dramatically. Add in re sculpting some parts, repainting, and shipping costs and the price per figure is significantly higher then a retail release. A fact that you and others continue to ignore. The Masterpiece figures are mass produced, and the repaints have no remolding which makes them even cheaper to produce then the first run since the price per unit get spread over both runs.

Also look at Classics Starscream, who now goes for 25-30 bucks a pop. He was a retail release, and now his price is inching up to match the price for the Botcon figures.

This is stupid!!! I really wanted those Botcon sets, and yeah i didn't jump at the chances to buy one because of the price.. you know not all us fans out here in the world have the money to save up to buy stuff like that!!!!!

I'd rather shop around and forget Botcon exclusives even exist!!! but it does bite though because the stories and expanded content are cool..

but too damn rich for my Blood, I'll Pass!!!!!!!

my rant is over!!! Don't like what I just wrote, sorry..and if you feel my pain, then feel free to rant as well!!!

I can understand if they are out of your price range. But bitching and complaining because they aren't catering to your budget demands isn't going to help. Hasbro and Funpub are companies, they need to make a profit, thats the bottom line. They are producing toys in order to sell them at a profit. The only way they are going to lower prices is if they aren't selling well enough and they are getting stuck with back stock. Considering that this year sold out, last years is now sold out, and most of 2005s figures are sold as well means that they are apparently doing their job right and that means prices aren't dropping any time soon.

what would be damned decent of Hasbro would be to release the Botcon sets at a fair and reasonable price, one per month, available from their website with a wide release, so everyone could get them!!!!

That way those of us who can only muster enough cash from paycheck to paycheck after our bills are paid can afford to get those sets one at a time, instead of flooding the stupid cons with exclusives and expecting everyone to have saved their tax return money to buy all that crap up!!! its insane, ridiculous, and greedy!!!!

its not fair to the fan community, and is completely and utterly Capitalistic to a fault!!!

Which is exactly why they are doing it. Like I said, Hasbro and Funpub exist to make a profit. They aren't here to make you happy, they aren't here to make the fandom happy, they make and sell toys to line their own pockets. And everyone knew the rough estimate of the Con set cost last year, we all knew that the con set this year would cost around the same as last year. We also knew that the SDCC exclusive would probably be in the same price range and would likely have a HTS release as well. Its not like they jsut sprung this all on us two days before the con.

If you couldn't afford it I'm sorry, but guess what, thats life. We can't always afford everything we want. I managed to get the Botcon figures this year, I'm skipping the SDCC ones. But to pull that off I had tighten my budget substantially. I did that because it was worth it to me.

this is not a way to build a loyal fanbase, and certainly bolsters animosity for those sets and exclusives!!!There are those of us, who may never be able to afford to attend a Botcon, or afford to get these stupid sets!!! thats the reality of the situation...

With all the merchandise that is being released, and the previous toys that we have to hunt down, plus the Botcon exclusives, SDCC exclusives, ect,, ect,, its a wonder why any of us are still here collecting!!!!

Again pleasing the fan base is not their priority, nor should it be. We are a small fraction of their market. The Botcon set is targeted at the small 15-20% of the market that adult collectors fill. Thats what exclusives in general are set up for. And you know what, they could always go back to the old club/con concept where you could literally only get them at the con. In which case they'd be even more limited and probably be selling for even more then they already are.

As to why people are still collecting. Because as you said, there is so much to collect, this is a great time to be a TF fan. We've got so many toys to choose from that their is literally something for every taste. And stuff is in every price range so people from pretty much any tax bracket can afford to by a little TF merchandise.


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Hmm... anyone that thought that Ebay would be the place to find "cheaper" sets kinda already set themselves up for the fall.

Man I'm glad I have no desire to collect the Classics figures. Heh at 600 bucks for the boxed set, I'll be able to buy all six MP seekers should they ever be released... and not as con-exclusives... I suppose.

About the only thing I would change about the convention exclusives would be that anyone willing to attend the convention should have access to the sets. If you buy a Primus package Hasbro should make the effort to supply each package with the boxed/bagged sets even if it means reproducing the figures after the Convention and shipping them at a later date.

The same for the attendance required figures. It shouldn't be first come/first serve but rather "well, we've run outta the stock we were able to produce before the convention, however, put your name on this list and we'll get the sets shipped to you as they're produced." You'd still have to attend to get your name on the list, but if you've paid for the Primus Package you should be treated with the respect that amount of money implies. Yes it'll change the value after market value of the figures [slightly], but it'll promote the sale of more Primus Packages I would think. And the increase in sales would certainly justify the cost in producing more figures after the convention.

CyberTooth wrote:Hmm... anyone that thought that Ebay would be the place to find "cheaper" sets kinda already set themselves up for the fall.

Man I'm glad I have no desire to collect the Classics figures. Heh at 600 bucks for the boxed set, I'll be able to buy all six MP seekers should they ever be released... and not as con-exclusives... I suppose.

About the only thing I would change about the convention exclusives would be that anyone willing to attend the convention should have access to the sets. If you buy a Primus package Hasbro should make the effort to supply each package with the boxed/bagged sets even if it means reproducing the figures after the Convention and shipping them at a later date.

The same for the attendance required figures. It shouldn't be first come/first serve but rather "well, we've run outta the stock we were able to produce before the convention, however, put your name on this list and we'll get the sets shipped to you as they're produced." You'd still have to attend to get your name on the list, but if you've paid for the Primus Package you should be treated with the respect that amount of money implies. Yes it'll change the value after market value of the figures [slightly], but it'll promote the sale of more Primus Packages I would think. And the increase in sales would certainly justify the cost in producing more figures after the convention.

Not really. Because unless they produce another run of the same size the price per unit actually goes up the smaller the run gets. If it cost 40 dollars per unit to produce 1400, then for another say 100 to meet the additional demand of people who went then the cost per figure is probably closer to 80-90 dollars. So they could actually loose money on that deal. Also people keep forgetting that Hasbro isn't producing these. Funpub goes directly through Takara for the actual production, Hasbro jsut signs off the designs.

I'd have to suspect that the run numbers would be the same if not greater than the original Release. Not to mention if the lines continue to produce during the convention the cost per unit would maintain it's price.

I suppose there is another alternative. Set a specific cut-off for the Convention Exclusives. You sign up by such date and you're promised a set; be it at the time of the convention or as the unit is produced after the fact. This would actually allow Hasbro to plan accordingly to and produce the largest quantity for those attending the convention so they can pick them up immediately while those who mail-in can wait a few weeks or two months for their sets to be produced. Production can run the whole time and the price per unit stays low.

As for "Must attend" Exclusives, a pre-registration can be set up for these units as well. People would have the option of buying these figures in the blind before the convention by a certain cut-off date or take the chance of purchasing them as quantities allow the day of the convention. You know die hard collectors such as Seibertron would buy in the blind and this would give Hasbro a rough idea of how demand might play out the day of the convention.

tacogrande wrote:Yep I brought this up before. Though last years botcon set was really awesome the ones before were always just repainted toys with new character names. Like packrat the blue rattrap or apelinq the purple primal figure. People still bought them, maybe not as in demand as these but it still brought people and made money. Plus it was their own thing. It was also totally different because it didn't complete a set of figures that were started and retail and finished as exclusives, like the seekers.

I could have bought the set this year, I even started a thread asking if I should. Ultimately I decided not to, because as I was about to fax my order I realized I was spending an amount on one set of toys that most people could use as grocery money for months. I didn't want to be like that. Though I am a hippocrite becuase I did just spend $250 on MP Megatron and Prime, but I'll admit I hated losing that money too, I debated with myself like I had dual personalities. At least in that case I felt the quality matched the price, whereas here it's the same offerings as the $10 counterparts at retail.

My thoughts exactly. I just couldn't justify it to myself.

What I think Hasbro should have done was offered the six seekers in trio sets respectively: The first classic trio in one package and then the cone-heads in the other. They could have offered these as exclusives, perhaps even through a site (similar to what Entertainment Earth did with the Clone Trooper 4-packs). Or, they could have just done their usual Wal-mart or Target or TrU exclusive route. This would have given more fans the chance to collect the seekers at a more reasonable price.
I'm not sure what to say about Botcon exclusives overall. Yes, they should be interesting, but I don't think they should be slap-in-the-face interesting, if ya'll get my meaning.

Here's how it is:

Classics was officially cancelled to make way for the movie. There were no wasted slots allocated to Classics that could have gone to the seekers instead. One seeker per wave and one store exclusive is acceptable.

The thing going against the six seekers release at retail is that there are six of them. Six near identical molds. No toy has ever been repainted that many times in such a short space of time for retail release.

So the remaining three were not on Hasbro's list of things to do. Botcon knew this and wanted to get these characters out to the fans otherwise they wouldn't have been released at all. Plus, why do characters nobody knows when you can do characters everybody wants?

Botcon exclusives are only so expensive because of the short production run. They are no where near the numbers of retail release.

CyberTooth wrote:I'd have to suspect that the run numbers would be the same if not greater than the original Release. Not to mention if the lines continue to produce during the convention the cost per unit would maintain it's price.

I suppose there is another alternative. Set a specific cut-off for the Convention Exclusives. You sign up by such date and you're promised a set; be it at the time of the convention or as the unit is produced after the fact. This would actually allow Hasbro to plan accordingly to and produce the largest quantity for those attending the convention so they can pick them up immediately while those who mail-in can wait a few weeks or two months for their sets to be produced. Production can run the whole time and the price per unit stays low.

As for "Must attend" Exclusives, a pre-registration can be set up for these units as well. People would have the option of buying these figures in the blind before the convention by a certain cut-off date or take the chance of purchasing them as quantities allow the day of the convention. You know die hard collectors such as Seibertron would buy in the blind and this would give Hasbro a rough idea of how demand might play out the day of the convention.

Actually, that is what they did. All Primus Package holders were guaranteed a set of the siuveneirs if picked up by Friday night. Then Sat morning Primsu holder got first crack at buying 2 more sets eachon a first come first serve. I was at the tail end of that line. As far as I could tell, everyne got one. Then the general public was let in on a first coem first serve.

Bass X0 wrote:Here's how it is:
The thing going against the six seekers release at retail is that there are six of them. Six near identical molds. No toy has ever been repainted that many times in such a short space of time for retail release.

Two words: Clone Troopers.
The basic Revenge of the Sith Clone Trooper mold was repainted and re-released at least 10 times between spring 05 and last winter. This is still excluding the various Clone Commander figures, quick-draw Clones, and removable helmet Clones, many of which used some of the same parts. Again, all within that time frame. So the real issue here is supply and demand. Star Wars fans were relentless in demanding more Clones and variations of Clones and Hasbro got the message loud and clear. Granted, the seeker mold is larger and more complex a toy than a Clone Trooper. However, weighing in six figures that are both repaints and slight retools against the sheer amount of Clone variants would seem even to me.
The thing really is just how bad ya'll want the seekers. If the demand for these at retail gets anywhere near what the demand for Clones was /is, then Hasbro would have no choice but to cave-in in some form or another.

Well I'm sure everyone heard the report from the Hasbro panel at Botcon regarding the seekers by now. It was said at the panel that the Classics line was not planned to be continued when the decision was made for this years Botcon 5-figure set. Fun Pub chose the figures that they did because they knew at the time Hasbro had no plans to Continue the Classics and they knew us fans wanted the three remaining seekers. Bottom line - smart move Fun Pub.

Hasbro also said they will absolutely not release TC, Thrust and Dirge because they do not want to devalue what people have paid for the convention set. I respect your position Skywarp-2 but based on what Hasbro said at their panel today anyone waiting for a retail release of those remaining seekers will be waiting for pigs to fly. As for the ebay scalpers, anyone who bids is contributing to their dirty deeds. So the scalpers can't shoulder the entire blame for inflated second market pricing.

There's is a bright side though. The fanbase did pull it off letting Hasbro know the Classics were a hit. Even though we are only a small portion of their consumer base we made enough of a impact that the decision has been made to continue the Classics. We now can say that after Peter Cullen getting casted as Prime due to fan outcry and the Classics getting continued due to fan support that we as a fandom can make a difference. That's kind of inspiring, isn't it?

Bonger wrote:Actually, that is what they did. All Primus Package holders were guaranteed a set of the siuveneirs if picked up by Friday night. Then Sat morning Primus holder got first crack at buying 2 more sets eachon a first come first serve. I was at the tail end of that line. As far as I could tell, everyne got one. Then the general public was let in on a first coem first serve.

Then... there you go. Seems fair enough to me. If you didn't ahold of the beloved seeker set by either walk-up or mail-in absentee then you simply didn't jump on the deal fast enough.

There's no one to blame but you. [Well, not you Bonger, the "you" of the general mass.]

Funkmaster Fleximus wrote:

Bass X0 wrote:Here's how it is:
The thing going against the six seekers release at retail is that there are six of them. Six near identical molds. No toy has ever been repainted that many times in such a short space of time for retail release.

Two words: Clone Troopers.
The basic Revenge of the Sith Clone Trooper mold was repainted and re-released at least 10 times between spring 05 and last winter. This is still excluding the various Clone Commander figures, quick-draw Clones, and removable helmet Clones, many of which used some of the same parts. Again, all within that time frame. So the real issue here is supply and demand. Star Wars fans were relentless in demanding more Clones and variations of Clones and Hasbro got the message loud and clear. Granted, the seeker mold is larger and more complex a toy than a Clone Trooper. However, weighing in six figures that are both repaints and slight retools against the sheer amount of Clone variants would seem even to me.
The thing really is just how bad ya'll want the seekers. If the demand for these at retail gets anywhere near what the demand for Clones was /is, then Hasbro would have no choice but to cave-in in some form or another.

Hmm... a mass army of clones in matching body armor would look... Identical. Therefore while a valid arguement it's almost a moot point.

A better arguement would be the Original Six set of Seekers. Three in the first wave and three more in the following year. Back then, the toy business didn't have near the following it does now and 20 years later the kids bac then are the collectors now. But even this doesn't matter now, Hasbro does as it wants and apparently Fun Publications is the only reason why the other three ever got to see production.

I shed a tear at the loss of the Alt Line.

We'll get dirge, thrust, and thundercracker when they do classics of the classics of the classics. My head hurts.