The Energon Pub

Howdy. I came across a website which spoke of the leadership skills of Ultra Magnus once possessing the Matrix of Leadership. I decided to respond with the below. Please let me know your thoughts as I believe any doubts to his leadership ability should be put to rest.

Regards,

Autobot-69






Autobot-69, on November 13th, 2007 at 3:12 Said:
I would like to express my understanding of the whole “Ultra Magnus was a dissappointment with the Matrix of Leadership” view that many may have.

Consider this…. Compare Ultra Magnus to Hot Rod prior to any exposure to the Matrix. Who would you have considered to have better Leadership qualities? For me it’s easy… Ultra Magnus.

If you watch Season 3 and Season 4 of Transformers it appears that Ultra Magnus had more confidence and was more of a Leader than Rodimus Prime… in my opinion. Due in fact mainly to Rodimus Prime’s self doubt. Magnus did more for Autobot self confidence in battle than Rodimus did.

However, I believe that we have never truly seen Ultra Magnus as a leader with the Matrix. When the Matrix is passed on to a new Leader by the previous host, the new Leader undergoes a transformation. Essentially becoming bigger, stronger and wiser. This happened to Hot Rod. He became Rodimus Prime. Why didn’t anything happen to Ultra Magnus? Because of one event that happened in the movie.

When the Matrix is transferred from Optimus to Ultra Magnus with Optimus Prime’s intention of Ultra receiving it to become the new leader…. the Matrix becomes charged… sensing it’s leaders intentions for the new receiver.

However, in the movie Optimus dropped it and Hot Rod caught it before giving it to Ultra Magnus. This is why when Ultra Magnus put it in his chest.. no transformation happened. Because the Matrix did not consider him the rightful new bearer of it. The Matrix was inteneded to be passed to the new bearer hand to hand from the old leader.

Hot Rod was the first to touch it after Optimus therefore it recognized him as it’s new bearer. So I would like to point out that I truly believe that we have never seen Ultra Magnus…. as the bigger, stronger, wiser leader that he could have been.

Could you imagine him bigger, stronger, and wiser?!!!! For sure it would be the end of the decepticons. What would his name be? Magnus Prime? Ultra Prime? That poses another question… if all new leaders receive a new body, mind, and name… then why didn’t Ultra Magnus’s name change. Because of what was described above.

Oh and for the hardcore.. you’re probably saying… then why did Scourge transform when Rodimus Prime lost the matrix to him if it wasn’t Rodimus Prime’s intention to pass it to him for Leader ship? I couldn’t tell you… but perhaps it reacts different if the host is a decepticon.

Later.

Y'know, that's the best analysis of Ultra Magnus vs Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime for leadership of the Autobots after Optimus Prime dies that I've come across in a long time. You brought up some good pointers on the whole scenario.

Wouldn't Hotrod have changed the moment he touched the Matrix? How did Optimus get the Matrix? No transformation there, Orion was rebuilt into Prime. I dunno. I like Hotrod/Rodimus but you're right, Magnus would have done a better job and I'd love to see 'Ultra Prime'. Guess I'll have to track down RID OP and go for Omega Prime.

I would assume that Hot rod didn't change right there on the spot because he hadn't inserted the matrix into his chest or held it appropriately for any significant amount of time.

Orion was rebuilt into Prime no doubt. However, perhaps the incorporation of the Matrix into prime during reconstruction was all part of the rebuilding. After all we didn't see an Optimus before and after the Matrix. His reconstruction and being given the matrix all happened at the same time.

Autobot-69 wrote:Orion was rebuilt into Prime no doubt. However, perhaps the incorporation of the Matrix into prime during reconstruction was all part of the rebuilding. After all we didn't see an Optimus before and after the Matrix. His reconstruction and being given the matrix all happened at the same time.

Yeah, I guess that covers it. Makes me wonder where Alpha Trion got the Matrix from though, he didn't revert to A3 when Prime was built.

Yes it makes me wonder as well. He did at some point turn from A3 to Alpha Trion however he never had Prime as part of his name. I have always been led to believe that the Autobot leader always became a Prime.

Maybe Alpha was never a bearer of the Matrix... simply someone who stored it under lock and key until he came across someone he felt suitable to bear it? Who knows.

Autobot-69 wrote: Maybe Alpha was never a bearer of the Matrix... simply someone who stored it under lock and key until he came across someone he felt suitable to bear it? Who knows.

Further to this statement... I don't believe Alpha would have given Prime the Matrix if Alpha was in fact the Autobot leader simply because it is always passed along to a new leader upone the death of the old leader. And when Alpha Trion built Optimus Prime he didn't die. This would possibly indicate that Alpha never was a bearer simply someone storing it?

Anyhow Later.

Hot Rod changed to Rodimus Prime because he was "the chosen one." He shares an afinity with the Matrix. It doesn't mean he's wise, or strong, or even "cool." It just means that he was the one fated to be in the right place at the right time to destroy Unicron, and the Matrix shared a part of its power with him.

Magnus would have been a better leader, hands down, but he did not have Matrix affinity. In time, Magnus would have learned how to tap into "the wisdom of the ages" as I'm sure all the other Autobot leaders in the past did. I do not, however, think that he would have gone through a "growth spurt."

Optimus did not grow with the Matrix. His transformation from Orion to Optimus was due to being rebuilt--there is no indication that the Matrix was given to him at that time.

However, back on point--Magnus was pretty much "the leader" of the Autobots for season 3. Yes, Rodimus was the barer of the matrix, but Magnus was the voice of reason behind him.

If one goes by the Japan cartoon continuity, Rodimus was so much of a wuss that he let Cybertron itself get blown up and then resign as leader of the Autobots. Magnus, on the other hand, is shown in a more heroic light, staying for an additional 14 episodes afterwards and dying in a one on one battle with Sixshot. He gets an episode named for his departure from the show, Rodimus does not.

Which G1 continuity are we talking about?

You've made some interesting obsevations but I feel that your not getting some key points.

Autobot-69 wrote:Consider this…. Compare Ultra Magnus to Hot Rod prior to any exposure to the Matrix. Who would you have considered to have better Leadership qualities? For me it’s easy… Ultra Magnus.

If you watch Season 3 and Season 4 of Transformers it appears that Ultra Magnus had more confidence and was more of a Leader than Rodimus Prime… in my opinion. Due in fact mainly to Rodimus Prime’s self doubt. Magnus did more for Autobot self confidence in battle than Rodimus did.

This would be the fault of the writters not being very consistent with the characters protrail.Rodimus alone went from being a confedent leader to one with seld doubt every few episodes in season 3.

I agree that Ultra Primus would have made a better leader but his character underwent a major change too after the movie.

Autobot-69 wrote:However, I believe that we have never truly seen Ultra Magnus as a leader with the Matrix. When the Matrix is passed on to a new Leader by the previous host, the new Leader undergoes a transformation. Essentially becoming bigger, stronger and wiser. This happened to Hot Rod. He became Rodimus Prime. Why didn’t anything happen to Ultra Magnus? Because of one event that happened in the movie.

When the Matrix is transferred from Optimus to Ultra Magnus with Optimus Prime’s intention of Ultra receiving it to become the new leader…. the Matrix becomes charged… sensing it’s leaders intentions for the new receiver.

However, in the movie Optimus dropped it and Hot Rod caught it before giving it to Ultra Magnus. This is why when Ultra Magnus put it in his chest.. no transformation happened. Because the Matrix did not consider him the rightful new bearer of it. The Matrix was inteneded to be passed to the new bearer hand to hand from the old leader.

This explaination would make sence if it werent for one thing....by Primes own words he knew that Ultra Magnus was not the leader phofitized in the leagen.He agree's with UM when he says that he's not worthy.Which means that Optimus's intention was that UM hold on to the Matrix till someone more worthy come around.

Autobot-69 wrote:Hot Rod was the first to touch it after Optimus therefore it recognized him as it’s new bearer. So I would like to point out that I truly believe that we have never seen Ultra Magnus…. as the bigger, stronger, wiser leader that he could have been.

Could you imagine him bigger, stronger, and wiser?!!!! For sure it would be the end of the decepticons. What would his name be? Magnus Prime? Ultra Prime? That poses another question… if all new leaders receive a new body, mind, and name… then why didn’t Ultra Magnus’s name change. Because of what was described above.

The reason that there was no name or body change for UM has nothing to do with Hot Rod touching it first because if it were Hot Rod would have been changed on the spot.

The reason there was no change for UM is because he had no afinity with the Matrix.Hot Rod did,Optimus did and even Scourge did to some degree.

Autobot-69 wrote:Oh and for the hardcore.. you’re probably saying… then why did Scourge transform when Rodimus Prime lost the matrix to him if it wasn’t Rodimus Prime’s intention to pass it to him for Leader ship? I couldn’t tell you… but perhaps it reacts different if the host is a decepticon.

Again this explanation does not really aply because Scourge wasnt the first Decepticon to try to use its power.Galvatron tried twice,in the movie and in the same episode that Scourge did use some of its power, and there was no Transformation for Galvatron.

The only logical reason for Scourge's transformatin is that he also shared an afinity with the Matrix.

Autobot-69 wrote:I would assume that Hot rod didn't change right there on the spot because he hadn't inserted the matrix into his chest or held it appropriately for any significant amount of time.

He didnt put it in his chest when he was transformed into Rodimus the first time....and the way he was holding the Matrix when he was changed was not all that diffrent the when he handed it over to Ultra Magnus.

Well, to be hoenst "Ultra Magnus" isn't a very good name to begin with, is it? I mean, come on, the dude's name in English is "Really Big." What kinda sad name is THAT?

Damolisher wrote:Well, to be hoenst "Ultra Magnus" isn't a very good name to begin with, is it? I mean, come on, the dude's name in English is "Really Big." What kinda sad name is THAT?

Damolisher wrote:....is "Really Big." What kinda sad name is THAT?

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But I get this.

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Damolisher wrote:Ah, so you got the e-mail about the penile enlargments being here too? You didn't? Ah crap...

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I hope this helps you guys

Over the hills, and off the rails, this thread has got to go!

Always been a good guy. Pro,......would take a shell
or demo out of the way. Rodimus..once looked similar..
There was a series,where they made him ....a double
agent,which I never seen the series...again.

If....always be tactical. Optimus,somewhere ..his brother,but as...never wanted big bot..though others
wanted. Optimus....took cause,... Whenever there was trouble...optimus was under...he lead.

Series comixs...quite guys,never let yas down...never
played favs..

GremlinGrimlock wrote:Always been a good guy. Pro,......would take a shell
or demo out of the way. Rodimus..once looked similar..
There was a series,where they made him ....a double
agent,which I never seen the series...again.

If....always be tactical. Optimus,somewhere ..his brother,but as...never wanted big bot..though others
wanted. Optimus....took cause,... Whenever there was trouble...optimus was under...he lead.

Series comixs...quite guys,never let yas down...never
played favs..

What????????

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:This explaination would make sence if it werent for one thing....by Primes own words he knew that Ultra Magnus was not the leader phofitized in the leagen.He agree's with UM when he says that he's not worthy.Which means that Optimus's intention was that UM hold on to the Matrix till someone more worthy come around.

Except that would mean that Optimus was not worthy either. And that's just wrong. He could tap and use the power of the Matrix. I don't think he meant that Magnus wasn't worthy, I think he was simply stating that he (Optimus) felt the same way when the Matrix was handed to him.

MagnusPrimal wrote:Except that would mean that Optimus was not worthy either.

Whats you point???

According to Optimus Primes words he [him self] WAS NOT worthy.

MagnusPrimal wrote: And that's just wrong. He could tap and use the power of the Matrix.

So could the Decepticon Scourge to some degree.Are you implying that he was worthy???

MagnusPrimal wrote:I don't think he meant that Magnus wasn't worthy, I think he was simply stating that he (Optimus) felt the same way when the Matrix was handed to him.

Thats an opinion and your welcome to it.

I kind of felt the same way back in the day till Scourge was able to use the power of the Matrix.

Then I came to the concuestion that ether the Matrix has an afinity with certin TF's [which Ultra Magnus was not one of] or the Matrix works when it wants to.

TRANS+CRAZY wrote:Y'know, that's the best analysis of Ultra Magnus vs Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime for leadership of the Autobots after Optimus Prime dies that I've come across in a long time. You brought up some good pointers on the whole scenario.

I've been saying that for years! Why is it that everything sounds better when someone else gives my argument?

Screw it, I'm getting Don LaFontaine to record all my posts from now on.

"In a world where I don't update my crappy comics..."

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

MagnusPrimal wrote:Except that would mean that Optimus was not worthy either.

Whats you point???

According to Optimus Primes words he [him self] WAS NOT worthy.

MagnusPrimal wrote: And that's just wrong. He could tap and use the power of the Matrix.

So could the Decepticon Scourge to some degree.Are you implying that he was worthy???

MagnusPrimal wrote:I don't think he meant that Magnus wasn't worthy, I think he was simply stating that he (Optimus) felt the same way when the Matrix was handed to him.

Thats an opinion and your welcome to it.

I kind of felt the same way back in the day till Scourge was able to use the power of the Matrix.

Then I came to the concuestion that ether the Matrix has an afinity with certin TF's [which Ultra Magnus was not one of] or the Matrix works when it wants to.

That actually makes a lot of sense. It explains why Prime didn't have a non-Matrix form like Hot Rod. It'd basically make him a really good leader who happened to be holding an artifact of incredible power, waiting either for the right guy to come along, or for the moment where he drops dead, hands over the Matrix, and hopes it gets to the right place at the right time.

Sadly you're missing the point that Optimus WAS the "chosen one."

Sledge wrote:Sadly you're missing the point that Optimus WAS the "chosen one."

I wouldnt say I'm missing it.

It has occured to me.

It would them make the story more like the Story in Star Wars.

Where your lead to believe that the chosen one is Luke because it appears that his father [the profitazed chosen one] has turned.

But we then lurn that Anikin does fulfill's his chosen one task.

But I dont think that this is the case here since I dont give that much credit to the writters of the TF serries to have come up with a plot full of such depth.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

MagnusPrimal wrote:Except that would mean that Optimus was not worthy either.

Whats you point???

According to Optimus Primes words he [him self] WAS NOT worthy.

Except it's been shown he was. He used the Matrix to cure the hate plague, in 'Dark Awakenings' he mentioned the Matrix made him "too strong", and we don't know if the Matrix upgraded his physical form or not. How exactly is he actually 'not worthy?'

MagnusPrimal wrote: And that's just wrong. He could tap and use the power of the Matrix.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:So could the Decepticon Scourge to some degree.Are you implying that he was worthy???

I don't know. Were the circumstances the same? Was Optimus physically deformed from contact with the Matrix? He wasn't? Does that imply that the situations were the same to you?

MagnusPrimal wrote:I don't think he meant that Magnus wasn't worthy, I think he was simply stating that he (Optimus) felt the same way when the Matrix was handed to him.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Thats an opinion and your welcome to it.

Thanks. You're welcome to yours as well.

MagnusPrimal wrote:Except it's been shown he was. He used the Matrix to cure the hate plague, in 'Dark Awakenings' he mentioned the Matrix made him "too strong", and we don't know if the Matrix upgraded his physical form or not. How exactly is he actually 'not worthy?'

Useing the Matrix and being made stronger proves nothing.....As I mentioned Scourge was also made stronger by the power of the Matrix.

His body was also changed.

MagnusPrimal wrote:I don't know. Were the circumstances the same? Was Optimus physically deformed from contact with the Matrix? He wasn't? Does that imply that the situations were the same to you?

The "situations" dont matter.

As you said we dont know if Prime had any physical changes from the Matrix.

And if you chose to call it "deformed" of not Scourge had a physical change from contact with the Matrix.

There's obviously something special about Scourge because the Matrix had no effect on Galvatron when he put it inside of himself.

So this proves that its something other then "Worthiness" that determins who can use the power of the Matrix.

MagnusPrimal wrote:Thanks. You're welcome to yours as well.

Yayyyyyyyyyyy we agree on something.....Lets have a sexy party.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pikcQxO1e0g