The Energon Pub

by **decepta-scott** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:56 am

The bots in question are wheeljack, wind charger and brawn. I believe that they were all supposed to be viewed as dead. I would like to get some opinions on this from as many as I can. Now, Id ask that you leave a simple dead or alive (with only a brief reason of why if you insist) to keep debates to a non issue. Im not after a debate here I simply want to know where people stand on the simple question of are they dead, or not as far as your opinion is concerned.
Thanks all have a good one! :grin:

News Credits: 2 · by **Tekka** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:03 am

Dead.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:09 pm

decepta-scott wrote:It has been drawn to my attention that some believe that a few of the bots in the animated movie are infact not dead. The bots in question are wheeljack, wind charger and brawn.

If your going to refer to our debate you should quote me correctly.

I never claimed they were "IN FACT" not dead.

I like to think they are dead, but theres no solid evidence from within the narrative that they died.

by **dinojack86** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:18 pm

Alive! My imagination is running wild with all kinds of possibilities about where they ended up.

News Credits: 1 · by **MightyMagnus78** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:33 pm

Dead! Dead! They're all dead! Such a senseless waste...

by **Treetop Maximus** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:57 pm

Dead.

News Credits: 1 · by **adamassc** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:17 pm

Alive and well.

Brawn refuses to die from a shoulder wound.

Prowl's dead though. He died Hardcore.

Website · by **RK_Striker_JK_5** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:23 pm

Brawn, dead simply for the fact that the Decepticons probably finished him off after securing the shuttle.

Wheeljack and Windcharger, though, I feel were eventually repaired.

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:09 pm

Oh brother. Decepti-Scott, you completely missed what Sto was trying to say to you. He DOES think that they are all dead, but that's because there has been outside material to confirm it. The movie by itself, however, bears NO such confirmation, giving NO answer to say whether they were dead or alive.

I'll just quote what I wrote there before:

Sabrblade wrote:Decepti-Scott, you're not understanding what Sto means when he says, "There's no solid evidence from the film's narrative to confirm that they died." By this, he is NOT saying that they DIDN'T die, but rather, just that the film does not openly declare their deaths. It IMPLIES that they died, but does not verbal SAY so.

Sto's claim of a lack of evidence to the confirmation of their deaths in just the film alone is a general statement. You are misinterpreting this as though he were instead saying "They did not die," which he is not saying at all.

Sto's claim of "There's no solid evidence from the film's narrative to confirm that they died," only means that we can't say yes or no either way without consulting external material--meaning info from stuff outside of the movie.

The statement that you think he's saying (but isn't) of, "They did not die," gives a definite answer to their fates. Sto, however, is merely saying that there is NO definite answer to the fates. He's not saying that they did or didn't die, but that we cannot say for certain what their fates were from just watching the film alone. We can IMPLY that they died, but we cannot say that they DID die and take it as a fact from the movie alone.

Long story short, Sto is not saying one way or the other about whether or not they died, but instead that the movie is simply AMBIGUOUS on this matter, giving NO answer one way or the other at all.

There is no right or wrong answer. There's just NO answer period.

It is true that they are dead, yes, but not becuase the movie said so. The movie did not say so. Other things outside of the movie did. The movie itself gave no definite answer.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:33 pm

Sabrblade wrote:Oh brother. Decepti-Scott, you completely missed what Sto was trying to say to you.

thats a fact :grin:

He DOES believe that they are all dead, but that's because there has been outside material to confirm it. The movie by itself, however, bears NO such confirmation, giving NO answer to say whether they were dead or alive.

Actually I dont "believe" either.The film didnt give us a solid answers so anything is possible.

But I do like to think they died.

When it comes to figuring out what happen "in side a story" I dont use outside materials or sources.

For example, some like to point to the story boards and early script to say it PROVES" Brawns death because it has more details that suggests he died.

But if you are going to use the script and storyboards tBrawn [and others] died then you have to also say Wheeljack did not die because the storyboards have him alive well after the scene he's on the floor.

Outside sources just cant be used because things change from what was written/intended to the finished product.

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:09 am

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Actually I dont "believe" either.The film didnt give us a solid answers so anything is possible.

But I do like to think they died.

Edited. Changed the word "believe" to "think".

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:16 am

Sabrblade wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Actually I dont "believe" either.The film didnt give us a solid answers so anything is possible.

But I do like to think they died.
Edited. Changed the word "believe" to "think".

by **decepta-scott** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:22 am

Do ypu people run arouind deliberately screwing up peoples threads or what?
I wanted to find out just how many people share your theory to see just how bad you were or were not in the minority with your thinking.

You know one could argue that...ahem... " I never refered to our other post and I never quoted anyone. Theres no proof from within the narrative that I was referring to the other post"
If you think them dead then why do you attack people who refer to them as dead? You make no sense. If you wanna stand out as an individual paint yourself purple, get a peg leg what ever but for gods sake abandon your whole "theres no PROOF that a toon character died or didnt" crap

Since stovokor and sarblade have deliberately ignored what I humbly asked in my opening post the mods may as well close this one up.

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:55 am

Look, there's a difference between a fact and a guess. We can guess that they died, but we can never say that they did as a fact.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:20 pm

decepta-scott wrote:Do ypu people run arouind deliberately screwing up peoples threads or what?
I wanted to find out just how many people share your theory to see just how bad you were or were not in the minority with your thinking.

You know one could argue that...ahem... " I never refered to our other post and I never quoted anyone. Theres no proof from within the narrative that I was referring to the other post"
If you think them dead then why do you attack people who refer to them as dead? You make no sense. If you wanna stand out as an individual paint yourself purple, get a peg leg what ever but for gods sake abandon your whole "theres no PROOF that a toon character died or didnt" crap

Since stovokor and sarblade have deliberately ignored what I humbly asked in my opening post the mods may as well close this one up.

A] you did indeed refer to our debate, and I'm not the only one who sees it
B] I attacked no one.If thats how you see it then maybe your too sensitive.

by **decepta-scott** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:24 pm

The fact of the matter is I asked people not to post anything but a dead or alive answer but you and your pal deliberately ignored that request. Is it a law that you have to do as the thread starter asks? No, but it is respectful. Though I should have known better than to expect anything more than complete disrespect from you.
If you wanted to continue our debate, you and sarblade should have kept it in the other thread. Your comments have no place here. :-x

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:27 pm

decepta-scott wrote:The fact of the matter is I asked people not to post anything but a dead or alive answer but you and your pal deliberately ignored that request.

The FACT is this is an open fourm.

All members have a right to voice their opinions, regardless of the threads starters desires.

This is nmot YOUR cite.You do not control or govern how others choose to post.

This is an open topic, free for all to choose how to reply.

Is it a law that you have to do as the thread starter asks? No, but it is respectful.

it was you that started the disrespect by refering to our debate.

If you didnt want it to carry over you shouldnt have made any mention of it in any way.

Though I should have known better than to expect anything more than complete disrespect from you.

this coming from the guy that resorts to insults when his argument fails.

by **decepta-scott** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:50 pm

My arguement never failed. You never proved me wrong .
I know that I dont run it. Youll know If I ever do because you will be removed.

I know its an open thread and that I dont have the right to make anyone do anything. Thats why I ASKED people to respond a certain way.You ignored that. because You are disrespectful. TA TA.

by **Collectorbot** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:01 pm

Crikey, not this again

decepta-scott, please try and understand:

A. Stovokoor does NOT state Windcharger and Wheeljack ARE ALIVE, he is merely saying that because there is no evidence to the contrary, it is POSSIBLE, and i stress possible, they may be alive, but HE LIKES TO THINK THEY ARE DEAD. As do i.

B. He hasn't attacked you at all, not once, and i've been following the animated thread.

For the purpose of this thread

Brawn: Alive
Prowl, Ratchet, Ironhide: Dead
Windcharger and Wheeljack: Dead

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:21 pm

decepta-scott wrote:My arguement never failed. You never proved me wrong .
I know that I dont run it. Youll know If I ever do because you will be removed.
I know its an open thread and that I dont have the right to make anyone do anything. Thats why I ASKED people to respond a certain way.You ignored that. because You are disrespectful. TA TA.

I ignored it because you referred to our debate.

As for your argument, I did indeed prove you wrong on a few points, and I'm not the only one to have told you that.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:22 pm

ScoutSi wrote:Crikey, not this again

decepta-scott, please try and understand:

A. Stovokoor does NOT state Windcharger and Wheeljack ARE ALIVE, he is merely saying that because there is no evidence to the contrary, it is POSSIBLE, and i stress possible, they may be alive, but HE LIKES TO THINK THEY ARE DEAD. As do i.

B. He hasn't attacked you at all, not once, and i've been following the animated thread.

thank you very much

by **decepta-scott** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:26 pm

O.K. Now you try and understand.
As long as he follows me around the board telling me that it was never proven they died over and over every time I refer to them as being dead and delebratly trying to annoy me by force feeding me his "points", I am going to argue my points right back.
Also, He most certainly DID jump down my throat for telling him where to find the scene with wheeljack when I thought Hed overlooked it. I guess he couldnt believe that anyone had challenge the knowledge of stovokor! He had a few people give him a copmliment ya know? There right under his pictures for all to see.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:29 pm

decepta-scott wrote:O.K. Now you try and understand.
As long as he follows me around the board telling me that it was never proven they died over and over every time I refer to them as being dead and delebratly trying to annoy me by force feeding me his "points", I am going to argue my points right back.
Also, He most certainly DID jump down my throat for telling him where to find the scene with wheeljack when I thought Hed overlooked it. I guess he couldnt believe that anyone had challenge the knowledge of stovokor! He had a few people give him a copmliment ya know? There right under his pictures for all to see.

This is childish behaivor.

All I did was ask you to back up your claims of FACTS.But since you couldnt you chose to launch insults and make it personal.

And following you around??? :lol:

Please, if you hadnt refered to our debate I wouldnt have ever replied.

by **Treetop Maximus** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:37 pm

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
decepta-scott wrote:O.K. Now you try and understand.
As long as he follows me around the board telling me that it was never proven they died over and over every time I refer to them as being dead and delebratly trying to annoy me by force feeding me his "points", I am going to argue my points right back.
Also, He most certainly DID jump down my throat for telling him where to find the scene with wheeljack when I thought Hed overlooked it. I guess he couldnt believe that anyone had challenge the knowledge of stovokor! He had a few people give him a copmliment ya know? There right under his pictures for all to see.

This is childish behaivor.

All I did was ask you to back up your claims of FACTS.But since you couldnt you chose to launch insults and make it personal.

And following you around??? Please, if you hadnt refered to our debate I wouldnt have ever replied.