The Energon Pub

How differnet G1 is compared to Beast Machines, and the only reason I bring this up is because the sequel to G1 is Beast Wars, and the sequel to Beast Wars is Beast Machines so they are like a trilogy.




Its almost like if this happened!

It's an interesting point but it's easily accounted for.

Transformers are directly related to real-world technology. As our technology changes, so does our expectation of what technological things should look and be like and be capable of.

The 80's had an optimistic view of technology, but it was still diskettes and cassettes, all very clunky and space-consuming.

Nowadays, we see a very small world when it comes to technology. So small, we talk quite plainly of nano-technology, the kind the writers used to explain the Beasties fur coats and such. And thus, our ideas for technology changed.

Remember that technology bought today is obsolete within a few months, it moves so very fast.

However, lets compare to something else: He-Man. Humans haven't changed so much over the last twenty years, so the main protagonist hasn't changed much. Then theres Skeletor (I hope I'm in the right fiction). Ghosts and ghoulies have been pretty much the same since the dawn of the horror story, so he too has remained largely unchanged.

This may account for Transformers being rebooted every other minute, also.

By G1 do you mean the original series, or from 1984 all the way through the end of Masterforce? Or the end of the G2 comics? If you mean the original series only, then Headmasters or Masterforce would be the sequels. Beast Wars and Beast Machines have tie-ins to G1, and BM is the direct sequel to BW, but story-wise, they're not really connected that much, other than basic elements like the home planet, the main characters, anda few other things.

fowlowl2626 wrote:How differnet G1 is compared to Beast Machines, and the only reason I bring this up is because the sequel to G1 is Beast Wars, and the sequel to Beast Wars is Beast Machines so they are like a trilogy.

Wrong.

Beast Wars is anything but the sequel to G1. Beast Machines is definitely the sequel to Beast Wars, but Beast Wars is not the sequel to G1.

Beats Wars is a spinoff of G1. It is not directly connected to G1 as Beast Machines is to Beast Wars (and other sequels like how Energon is to Armada).

Beast Wars was made twelve years after G1 was made, and aired on TV nine years after G1 ended. And it was made by a completely different group of people from those who worked on G1 (though, only a handful of those who worked on G1 also worked on BW). When the first season of BW was made, nowhere was it even implied that it was connected to the 80s Transformers cartoon (aside from a few passive nods and fanwank references). Its connection to G1 wasn't made evident until the final episode of the second season.

Beast Wars and Beast Machines aren't meant to be direct sequel to G1. They're "spinoffs" of G1 instead.

Sabrblade wrote:

fowlowl2626 wrote:How differnet G1 is compared to Beast Machines, and the only reason I bring this up is because the sequel to G1 is Beast Wars, and the sequel to Beast Wars is Beast Machines so they are like a trilogy.

Wrong.

Beast Wars is anything but the sequel to G1. Beast Machines is definitely the sequel to Beast Wars, but Beast Wars is not the sequel to G1.

Beats Wars is a spinoff of G1. It is not directly connected to G1 as Beast Machines is to Beast Wars (and other sequels like how Energon is to Armada).

Beast Wars was made twelve years after G1 was made, and aired on TV nine years after G1 ended. And it was made by a completely different group of people from those who worked on G1 (though, only a handful of those who worked on G1 also worked on BW). When the first season of BW was made, nowhere was it even implied that it was connected to the 80s Transformers cartoon (aside from a few passive nods and fanwank references). Its connection to G1 wasn't made evident until the final episode of the second season.

Beast Wars and Beast Machines aren't meant to be direct sequel to G1. They're "spinoffs" of G1 instead.

Chronologically however, it's all the same.

Chronologically Beast Wars is the sequel, because it proceeds G1 in the timeline. Sort of. A lot of fans view it in this regard, as opposed to in its place as a title within the franchise.

And seeing as, I think, the original poster was considering the timeline more than the franchise, he'd in fact be correct in saying Beast Wars was the sequel.

Lalala.

Scatterlung wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

fowlowl2626 wrote:How differnet G1 is compared to Beast Machines, and the only reason I bring this up is because the sequel to G1 is Beast Wars, and the sequel to Beast Wars is Beast Machines so they are like a trilogy.

Wrong.

Beast Wars is anything but the sequel to G1. Beast Machines is definitely the sequel to Beast Wars, but Beast Wars is not the sequel to G1.

Beats Wars is a spinoff of G1. It is not directly connected to G1 as Beast Machines is to Beast Wars (and other sequels like how Energon is to Armada).

Beast Wars was made twelve years after G1 was made, and aired on TV nine years after G1 ended. And it was made by a completely different group of people from those who worked on G1 (though, only a handful of those who worked on G1 also worked on BW). When the first season of BW was made, nowhere was it even implied that it was connected to the 80s Transformers cartoon (aside from a few passive nods and fanwank references). Its connection to G1 wasn't made evident until the final episode of the second season.

Beast Wars and Beast Machines aren't meant to be direct sequel to G1. They're "spinoffs" of G1 instead.

Chronologically however, it's all the same.

Chronologically Beast Wars is the sequel, because it proceeds G1 in the timeline. Sort of. A lot of fans view it in this regard, as opposed to in its place as a title within the franchise.

And seeing as, I think, the original poster was considering the timeline more than the franchise, he'd in fact be correct in saying Beast Wars was the sequel.

Lalala.

PWND!!!

Don't forget that in the time of the Beast Era, all the G1 stories are treated as Arthurian legend, making them more of a vague mythology rather than exact history to the Maximals and Predacons.

And if you really want to get technical, the setting of Beast Wars was roughly 3 million B.C., so that would actually make it a prequel, chronologically, to G1 (sure, the characters were from the future, but that future was not the setting of the story till Beast Machines).

Sabrblade wrote:Don't forget that in the time of the Beast Era, all the G1 stories are treated as Arthurian legend, making them more of a vague mythology rather than exact history to the Maximals and Predacons.

And if you really want to get technical, the setting of Beast Wars was roughly 3 million B.C., so that would actually make it a prequel, chronologically, to G1 (sure, the characters were from the future, but that future was not the setting of the story till Beast Machines).

No, if you want to get technical this is still a sequel. The franchise context is in the future, the character's aren't. It's also a sequel in that is proceeds G1. So on both the franchise and context fronts, it's a sequel.

It being set before G1 isn't 100% true. In the broadest view, it is a story about the future of the G1 universe that just so happens to take place, using plot devices, in the past, but the characters operate as denizens of the future, knowing about the world around them in the context of a historical event, not a presently unfolding instance, despite Rhinox's sentiments.

The difference is that in a prequel, the universe exists ignorant of its future and obviously leads straight into it. Beast Wars had the choice to, knowingly, alter the future and thus rewrite the history of the Transformers timeline (in both franchise and context senses) and cannot be a prequel therefore.

There are two pictures, that of the overall event (Future characters being sent back in time) and the smaller instance (being on prehistoric earth). If it was JUST on Prehistoric Earth, then it'd be a prequel as it takes place prior to G1 on the timeline. However, the very beginnings of the Beast Wars spawned on future Cybertron (unless you want to talk Grandfather Paradox but that isn't relevant as Beast Wars doesn't acknowledge the possibility) as is, overall, a sequel.

I'm just trying to find a few ways to explain the same thing.

Well, there was one more main franchise that succeeded G1 but preceeded Beast Wars: G2. Many consider that to be the proper sequel to the G1 franchise.

Sabrblade wrote:Well, there was one more main franchise that succeeded G1 but preceeded Beast Wars: G2. Many consider that to be the proper sequel to the G1 franchise.

Um, okay, but that doesn't really add anything to the discussion. G2 was pretty much just as blocky as G1.

Sabrblade wrote:Beats Wars is a spinoff of G1. It is not directly connected to G1 as Beast Machines is to Beast Wars (and other sequels like how Energon is to Armada).

Beast Wars was made twelve years after G1 was made, and aired on TV nine years after G1 ended. And it was made by a completely different group of people from those who worked on G1 (though, only a handful of those who worked on G1 also worked on BW). When the first season of BW was made, nowhere was it even implied that it was connected to the 80s Transformers cartoon (aside from a few passive nods and fanwank references). Its connection to G1 wasn't made evident until the final episode of the second season.

Beast Wars and Beast Machines aren't meant to be direct sequel to G1. They're "spinoffs" of G1 instead.

Wait, what?

The points you are making are entirely disjointed. The axis on which Beast Wars spins is the existence of G1.

Perhaps at its onset, Beast Wars wasn't meant to be a tie in to G1 (because it was meant to be a DIRECT sequel), but you can't say that Beast Wars is anything BUT directly tied to G1.

Scatterlung wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Don't forget that in the time of the Beast Era, all the G1 stories are treated as Arthurian legend, making them more of a vague mythology rather than exact history to the Maximals and Predacons.

And if you really want to get technical, the setting of Beast Wars was roughly 3 million B.C., so that would actually make it a prequel, chronologically, to G1 (sure, the characters were from the future, but that future was not the setting of the story till Beast Machines).

No, if you want to get technical this is still a sequel. The franchise context is in the future, the character's aren't. It's also a sequel in that is proceeds G1. So on both the franchise and context fronts, it's a sequel.

It being set before G1 isn't 100% true. In the broadest view, it is a story about the future of the G1 universe that just so happens to take place, using plot devices, in the past, but the characters operate as denizens of the future, knowing about the world around them in the context of a historical event, not a presently unfolding instance, despite Rhinox's sentiments.

The difference is that in a prequel, the universe exists ignorant of its future and obviously leads straight into it. Beast Wars had the choice to, knowingly, alter the future and thus rewrite the history of the Transformers timeline (in both franchise and context senses) and cannot be a prequel therefore.

There are two pictures, that of the overall event (Future characters being sent back in time) and the smaller instance (being on prehistoric earth). If it was JUST on Prehistoric Earth, then it'd be a prequel as it takes place prior to G1 on the timeline. However, the very beginnings of the Beast Wars spawned on future Cybertron (unless you want to talk Grandfather Paradox but that isn't relevant as Beast Wars doesn't acknowledge the possibility) as is, overall, a sequel.

I'm just trying to find a few ways to explain the same thing.

PWND!!! again!

Actually, hold on...

Sabrblade wrote:Beast Wars was made twelve years after G1 was made, and aired on TV nine years after G1 ended.

Aired.. before it was made?

Sabrblade wrote:And it was made by a completely different group of people from those who worked on G1 (though, only a handful of those who worked on G1 also worked on BW).

Means nothing. It's not Sunbow or Mainframe's franchise, it's Hasbro's.

Sabrblade wrote:When the first season of BW was made, nowhere was it even implied that it was connected to the 80s Transformers cartoon (aside from a few passive nods and fanwank references).

"Nowhere it was implied, except where it was." Sorta, anyway. The series did start out not knowing whether or not it was G1-related.

Sabrblade wrote:Its connection to G1 wasn't made evident until the final episode of the second season.

Questionable, with Starscreams two appearances in the first season, but yeah, it wasn't until The Agenda that the team decided to tack it onto G1.

Yeah, I just wanted to point out the 'twelve/nine' years thing. That confused me.

fowlowl2626 wrote:PWND!!! again!

Kindly stop that.

Scatterlung wrote:Actually, hold on...

Sabrblade wrote:Beast Wars was made twelve years after G1 was made, and aired on TV nine years after G1 ended.

Aired.. before it was made?

Yeah, I just wanted to point out the 'twelve/nine' years thing. That confused me.

It makes perfect sense to me. G1 started 12 years before and ended 9 years before Beast Wars. So it was bound to look different. Just look at the difference between Season 2 and Season 3 of G1. There is a huge difference in the look between them in my opinion. And the looks of Beast Wars at the start and the look of the upgrades when Beast Wars was in it's final stages is very different. If the technology can change so much in so short of a time then it is only expected to be different when G1 era is known as legend in the Beast Wars era.

It is a sequel. It would only be a spin off if it is set at the same time. Technically it is later in the timeline. The technology of the Preds and Maxis is an advancement on the technology that was in use by 'Cons and 'Bots.

Mkall wrote:

fowlowl2626 wrote:PWND!!! again!

Kindly stop that.

I call um' as I see um'

fowlowl2626 wrote:

Mkall wrote:

fowlowl2626 wrote:PWND!!! again!

Kindly stop that.

I call um' as I see um'

Protip: When a mod like Mkall says to stop doing something, it's best to just do it and not say anything. Life on Seibertron will go easy that way, trust me.

When the writers were first creating Beast Wars, they honestly did not know a lot about Generation 1. They DID, however, originally plan for the planet that the Maximals and Predicons landed on to be prehistoric Earth.

When they started doing research... and found that the Autobots and Decepticons had also landed on prehistoric Earth, THEN they started writing in connections. And those connections were not just "tacked on" to the end of Season 2. They were connections that were a long time coming. The writers left clues in abundance.

In Beast Wars, Starscream shows up, Ravage shows up, and even Prime himself wakes up for a little bit. Unicron's head makes an appearance. There's talk of the Great War, and the Transformers connections with the humans. We see, via flashback, the crew of the Ark crashing.

None of these are "re-imagined" versions like Armada, RID, or such. We're suppose to be seeing THE Generation 1 Starscream, Prime, and such. Ravage is different, but he's given a backstory as to why he's different. They are on THE Generation 1 Ark.

Beast Wars Megatron even shoots Generation 1 Optimus Prime in the head in order to change the future.

I don't know how it could be any more clear that Beast Wars is a sequel.

There were even plans (though the writers disagreed on using it, and so it wasn't implemented) that the Vok were going to be revealed to be the Swarm from the Generation 2 comic books.

Chronologically speaking, it also comes after Generation 1, as Generation 1 BEGAN millions of years ago. Yes, they crash in the first episode, but by the time the Beasties have crashed, the Ark has already been there for some time. So, no worries about it being a prequel either

Black Bumblebee wrote:When the writers were first creating Beast Wars, they honestly did not know a lot about Generation 1. They DID, however, originally plan for the planet that the Maximals and Predicons landed on to be prehistoric Earth.

When they started doing research... and found that the Autobots and Decepticons had also landed on prehistoric Earth, THEN they started writing in connections. And those connections were not just "tacked on" to the end of Season 2. They were connections that were a long time coming. The writers left clues in abundance.

In Beast Wars, Starscream shows up, Ravage shows up, and even Prime himself wakes up for a little bit. Unicron's head makes an appearance. There's talk of the Great War, and the Transformers connections with the humans. We see, via flashback, the crew of the Ark crashing.

None of these are "re-imagined" versions like Armada, RID, or such. We're suppose to be seeing THE Generation 1 Starscream, Prime, and such. Ravage is different, but he's given a backstory as to why he's different. They are on THE Generation 1 Ark.

Beast Wars Megatron even shoots Generation 1 Optimus Prime in the head in order to change the future.

I don't know how it could be any more clear that Beast Wars is a sequel.

There were even plans (though the writers disagreed on using it, and so it wasn't implemented) that the Vok were going to be revealed to be the Swarm from the Generation 2 comic books.

Chronologically speaking, it also comes after Generation 1, as Generation 1 BEGAN millions of years ago. Yes, they crash in the first episode, but by the time the Beasties have crashed, the Ark has already been there for some time. So, no worries about it being a prequel either

We kinda settled this already but... Good to see you're participating.