The Energon Pub

by **Pyrostrata** » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:25 pm

Stormer wrote:I liked Drift from the start, and has quickly become one of my favorites. I really like the whole third/non-faction idea - it gives the TF universe a whole different dimension.

The one thing about the Drift haters that just drives me crazy is this statement: "He's a cliche character." If you want to get really technical about it, there's LOTS of characters who could be described that way. Never did really understand what was meant by that...don't wanna open up a can of worms or anything - just sayin'.

I'm waiting very very patiently (arg!) for the toy to come out in the stores -and I'm not really a big toy buyer.

I too have liked Drift since his first appearance in AHM, and was unaware til fairly recently that there was such a thing as "Drift-hate"...I could not wrap my mind around the idea of how such a thing can be for such a character so full of win it cannot be measured! Spotlight: Drift filled in many holes as to some whens and wheres about the character, and I am sure the Drift-centric miniseries will fill in the rest! I cannot wait for it either!

Then there was talk last year of a toy, which then seemed to be firmly denied by all sorts of credible sources. All of a sudden, near the end of last year, the first pics of a Drift figure started oozing onto the net...I nearly fainted with joy! I got a first look at one with my very own eyes at BotCon (and the repaint into Blurr..also high-levels of awesome, which kinda shocked me..I couldn't see how that would work...til I saw it). He is now number One on my "OMG! Must Have This" list.

by **Loki God Of Mischief** » Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:43 pm

Prime Evil wrote:Oh, why can't so and so get a Spotlight. It's great how it's soo cool for a fan to create characters, but when a company like IDW tries to do something new, it's hate hate hate hate. Guess what, there isn't an original character left to write about in ANYTHING.

News Credits: 23 · by **Prime Evil** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:10 am

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:
Prime Evil wrote:Oh, why can't so and so get a Spotlight. It's great how it's soo cool for a fan to create characters, but when a company like IDW tries to do something new, it's hate hate hate hate. Guess what, there isn't an original character left to write about in ANYTHING.

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Category:Fiction-only_characters
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Category:Cartoon-only_characters
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Category:Profile-only_characters
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Category:Charact ... ut_visuals
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Category:Nameless_unconfirmed
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Category:Japanes ... characters
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Category:Europea ... characters
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Scrash
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Jet_Corps
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Battle_Gaia

Sure about that? 'Cause my point still stands. There are literally hundreds of canon characters with little or no fiction internationally or in the US.

Oh, sorry. I should have worded that better. I meant that there are only so many personality types that can be written anymore. Yeah, Drift is an uber ninja, and I think that's why some people hate him. So it comes down to how the story is told. Like James Cameron's Avatar. It's a very typical story, but it's how the story is told that makes people like it. How many stories of "the one" have we seen in Hollywood. But they keep on telling them in different ways. Star Wars, Matrix, even Eragon the story about the boy and his Dragon. All same archtype stories but told in different methods and fashion. So I didn't mean that there aren't new or other TF characters, but there are only so many personality types to begin with in any fiction and only so many stories that can be told. We have seen it all, and read it all...for the most part. So all this complain about Drift is silly. I could complain that Prowl is pretty much the Autobot's version of Shockwave (which has been mentioned in fandom) and no one seemed to care about the repeated personality. So one is good and one is bad. Still the same basic premise of how logic dictates that character. BTW, I'm a big Shockwave fan and meh on Prowl, not how he is written, just the character himself.

by **Stormer** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:02 pm

Pyrostrata wrote:I too have liked Drift since his first appearance in AHM, and was unaware til fairly recently that there was such a thing as "Drift-hate"...I could not wrap my mind around the idea of how such a thing can be for such a character so full of win it cannot be measured! Spotlight: Drift filled in many holes as to some whens and wheres about the character, and I am sure the Drift-centric miniseries will fill in the rest! I cannot wait for it either!

Hee hee! Me neither! I'm just dying for a good story!

by **Loki God Of Mischief** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:48 pm

Prime Evil wrote:
Loki God Of Mischief wrote:
Prime Evil wrote:Oh, why can't so and so get a Spotlight. It's great how it's soo cool for a fan to create characters, but when a company like IDW tries to do something new, it's hate hate hate hate. Guess what, there isn't an original character left to write about in ANYTHING.

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Category:Fiction-only_characters
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Category:Cartoon-only_characters
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Category:Profile-only_characters
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Category:Charact ... ut_visuals
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Category:Nameless_unconfirmed
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Category:Japanes ... characters
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Category:Europea ... characters
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Scrash
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Jet_Corps
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Battle_Gaia

Sure about that? 'Cause my point still stands. There are literally hundreds of canon characters with little or no fiction internationally or in the US.

Oh, sorry. I should have worded that better. I meant that there are only so many personality types that can be written anymore. Yeah, Drift is an uber ninja, and I think that's why some people hate him. So it comes down to how the story is told. Like James Cameron's Avatar. It's a very typical story, but it's how the story is told that makes people like it. How many stories of "the one" have we seen in Hollywood. But they keep on telling them in different ways. Star Wars, Matrix, even Eragon the story about the boy and his Dragon. All same archtype stories but told in different methods and fashion. So I didn't mean that there aren't new or other TF characters, but there are only so many personality types to begin with in any fiction and only so many stories that can be told. We have seen it all, and read it all...for the most part. So all this complain about Drift is silly. I could complain that Prowl is pretty much the Autobot's version of Shockwave (which has been mentioned in fandom) and no one seemed to care about the repeated personality. So one is good and one is bad. Still the same basic premise of how logic dictates that character. BTW, I'm a big Shockwave fan and meh on Prowl, not how he is written, just the character himself.

Respect.

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:05 pm

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:Recolor of a canon design? Check.
Used to work for the other faction but turned for his own morals? Check.
Mysterious past? Check.
Japanese for no good reason? Check. (He plays Go before ever getting near Japan, as well as having Kanji all over himself.)
Never lost a fight? Check.
Unique fighting style? Check.
Last ditch uber weapon that he never uses because it's ZOMG powerful and may or may not be cursed or some ****? Check.
Has the personality of a character from another fiction? Check. (He's Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow fused together.)
No flaws at all? Check.
Gives advice to canon characters? Check.
Is better at something than other canon characters? Check.

I haven't been following...whatever Drift is supposed to be in. I only know what I hear from others, but ultimately my opinion boils down to the above quote. He's very clearly a Mary Sue fanfic character and at the same time everyone is getting taken in by this.

by **Loki God Of Mischief** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:10 am

Drift's a Canon Sue bro. Canon characters can't be Mary Sues. Mary Sue is a fan fiction term. A Canon Sue is a relatively new canon character to a fiction that comes off as fan fiction Mary Sue. I hate to correct you but it's one of my peeves to see someone misue that phrase.

People do it so often, and sometimes for canon characters that are protagonists. I wanted to digitally bitchslap this one kid for calling Batman a Mary Sue on another site I go to. Mary Sue can only be applied to fan fiction or original characters. It doesn't mean "Canon character I don't like."

by **Shadowarp** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:15 am

I'm super new to adulthood TF fandom (uh, that makes it sound like a disease) and have only read through IDW up through the first hardcover collection so feel free to disregard my opinion on the matter BUT the character seems pretty damn cool to me. I especially like the comparison to Snake Eyes, which strikes me as more relevant than a term like "Canon Sue" (maybe because I don't know much about Shane McCarthy). Snake Eyes has been ridiculously awesome since the eighties. I know that even as a kid who favored the redundantly flawed (bumbling, cowardly, arrogant, and on and on) Cobra Commander, Snake Eyes's complete asskickery did not come across as cheap to my young mind. It was simply cool. And it has remained cool ever since (disclaimer: I did not see the recent movie). As OP mentioned, no one makes a big deal about some of the G1's being nigh invincible. But Loki's response hits the nail on the head:

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:They've been around for 25+ years and are canonically tough. He's been around for what? 3?

In other words, fans already accepted that those older characters are awesome--more often than not, when their priority was having fun playing with toys rather than engaging in character analysis and deconstruction--and their awesomeness has become a matter of "fact" rather than opinion. In that light, it's easy to see why some people would accuse IDW (or McCarthy more particularly) of trying to force their (his) opinions on the fanbase as if they were "facts" of canon, as it were. Maybe the real issue is that fans often see themselves as the legitimate "guardians of canonicty" and see Hasbro and their licensees as constantly launching threats against that canon. I mean, look at the explanation of the anger: people don't like that IDW puts Drift on par with G1 characters (the "factually" awesome); they see his development as stealing from the rightful inheritance of other characters (as if there were a line McCarthy had Drift cutting through); his story/personality is hackneyed (compared to which totally original, non-archetypal TransFormer?) . . .

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:54 am

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:Drift's a Canon Sue bro. Canon characters can't be Mary Sues. Mary Sue is a fan fiction term. A Canon Sue is a relatively new canon character to a fiction that comes off as fan fiction Mary Sue. I hate to correct you but it's one of my peeves to see someone misue that phrase.

People do it so often, and sometimes for canon characters that are protagonists. I wanted to digitally bitchslap this one kid for calling Batman a Mary Sue on another site I go to. Mary Sue can only be applied to fan fiction or original characters. It doesn't mean "Canon character I don't like."

I see what you mean, but I think it's splitting hairs considering both terms mean the exact same thing. The only difference is one is in a professional work and the other is fanfiction.

by **Dagon** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:30 pm

Shadowman wrote:
Loki God Of Mischief wrote:Recolor of a canon design? Check.
Used to work for the other faction but turned for his own morals? Check.
Mysterious past? Check.
Japanese for no good reason? Check. (He plays Go before ever getting near Japan, as well as having Kanji all over himself.)
Never lost a fight? Check.
Unique fighting style? Check.
Last ditch uber weapon that he never uses because it's ZOMG powerful and may or may not be cursed or some ****? Check.
Has the personality of a character from another fiction? Check. (He's Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow fused together.)
No flaws at all? Check.
Gives advice to canon characters? Check.
Is better at something than other canon characters? Check.

I haven't been following...whatever Drift is supposed to be in. I only know what I hear from others, but ultimately my opinion boils down to the above quote. He's very clearly a Mary Sue fanfic character and at the same time everyone is getting taken in by this.

Yeah, I agree with pretty much every above-quoted word. I don't mind Drift, but I generally chaf at any character, new or fan-made or official or OG or otherwise, being deus ex machina-style characters. I hate G1 Optimus Prime for the self same reason. I don't like when someone gains uberabilities in more or less any circumstance, so when a brand new guy comes around and is suddenly better than everything else, I tend to keep a distance.
Again, I don't feel one way or the other about Drift, but I think that Loki has been making valid points. Some of them may be too confronational or negative sounding or whatever (I dont think so....) but he's still got some valid points. I like/d Sunstorm, but Sunstorm didn't seem as made up as we go along as Drift does (stopped with the onset of the new Ongoing series, just for reference), like he was alright in AHM and his Spotlight is a formula piece and not terribly interesting. I just don't like the way Drift exploded onto the scene and we were told by IDW how much we'd love him before we'd even seen him. If anyone remembers, weren't we told Drift wasn't going to be the AHM deus ex machina after people had been raising that concern on the IDW board, and he wasnt the deus ex machina in AHM.....at least. But that felt like IDW purposely scaled him back becasue they said they would.....

Again, don't care strongly or otherwise, but I just think he's kinda alright.

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:42 pm

Dagon wrote:I hate G1 Optimus Prime for the self same reason. I don't like when someone gains uberabilities in more or less any circumstance, so when a brand new guy comes around and is suddenly better than everything else, I tend to keep a distance.

With Optimus it's forgivable when he kicks more ass than any other bot because, well, he's Optimus Prime. He's Superman, Jesus, and John Wayne all rolled into one. It's the same with Megatron. Skywarp said it best in Spotlight: Ramjet, "Always bet on the Leader." Because you don't get to be leader of the Autobots or Decepticons without being able to kick ass and take names.

by **Dagon** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:50 pm

Shadowman wrote:
Dagon wrote:I hate G1 Optimus Prime for the self same reason. I don't like when someone gains uberabilities in more or less any circumstance, so when a brand new guy comes around and is suddenly better than everything else, I tend to keep a distance.

With Optimus it's forgivable when he kicks more ass than any other bot because, well, he's Optimus Prime. He's Superman, Jesus, and John Wayne all rolled into one. It's the same with Megatron. Skywarp said it best in Spotlight: Ramjet, "Always bet on the Leader." Because you don't get to be leader of the Autobots or Decepticons without being able to kick ass and take names.

I agree, and you're right, and Skywarp was right too. But I find it real boring when there's a character who's so awesome by themselves that they're Jesus and John and Superman at once. That's my personal view of things, but if Prime's that great then why does he need the rest of the gang? Becuase there are multiple Decepticons? He took out more than one or two on more than one or two occasions (86 movie, numerous G1 scenes, ROTF). so maybe Prime doesn;t need all the other Autobots then.
While you say the truth concerning Prime, does the same apply to Drift then? If Prime gets to be that awesome because he's Prime, then Drift should get to be that awesome just because he's Drift, and Ramjet should be that awesome just because he's Ramjet, and Octane and Gears and Spectro and.....
I know that's getting silly, but the idea is there. Drift is 'awesome' becuase he's Drift, at least Prime has had time to earn his awesome through what we've seen him do. Drift showed up fully formed and we were supposed to swoon over him.

News Credits: 9 · by **Editor** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:01 pm

Just a quick point about Sunstorm. Sunstorm, while we "never realized it" has been a G1 character since 1984.

He will always get more acceptance than Drift regardless of how the character was re-introduced to us by DW, purely because of his origin as a E-Hobby figure based on his two second appearance in the MTMTE Part 1.

by **Dagon** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:11 pm

Editor wrote:Just a quick point about Sunstorm. Sunstorm, while we "never realized it" has been a G1 character since 1984.

He will always get more acceptance than Drift regardless of how the character was re-introduced to us by DW, purely because of his origin as a E-Hobby figure based on his two second appearance in the MTMTE Part 1.

That's true, but as a converse arguement, nobody really gets worked up over "Acid Storm", and he was in the G1 cartoon for more seconds, and has a figure as well. I don't know your personal feelings on Sunstorm or Drift Editor, so please don't take me as being terrible, but that ^ seems like a Movieverse-style arguement, like "you don't like something just because it's different from G1". I'm Drift neutral, really, and I like DW Sunstorm for what they were doing with him, and I'm indifferent to Drift becuase of what IDW is doing with him. Drift fits as a G1 character and G1's my favorite, but that's not it. Maybe if IDW keeps developing Drift as a character, and doesn't just leave him as a super power, maybe then this 'hate' for him will diminish.

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:21 pm

Dagon wrote:
Shadowman wrote:
Dagon wrote:I hate G1 Optimus Prime for the self same reason. I don't like when someone gains uberabilities in more or less any circumstance, so when a brand new guy comes around and is suddenly better than everything else, I tend to keep a distance.

With Optimus it's forgivable when he kicks more ass than any other bot because, well, he's Optimus Prime. He's Superman, Jesus, and John Wayne all rolled into one. It's the same with Megatron. Skywarp said it best in Spotlight: Ramjet, "Always bet on the Leader." Because you don't get to be leader of the Autobots or Decepticons without being able to kick ass and take names.

I agree, and you're right, and Skywarp was right too. But I find it real boring when there's a character who's so awesome by themselves that they're Jesus and John and Superman at once. That's my personal view of things, but if Prime's that great then why does he need the rest of the gang? Becuase there are multiple Decepticons? He took out more than one or two on more than one or two occasions (86 movie, numerous G1 scenes, ROTF). so maybe Prime doesn;t need all the other Autobots then.
While you say the truth concerning Prime, does the same apply to Drift then? If Prime gets to be that awesome because he's Prime, then Drift should get to be that awesome just because he's Drift, and Ramjet should be that awesome just because he's Ramjet, and Octane and Gears and Spectro and.....
I know that's getting silly, but the idea is there. Drift is 'awesome' becuase he's Drift, at least Prime has had time to earn his awesome through what we've seen him do. Drift showed up fully formed and we were supposed to swoon over him.

You raise a good point, but Optimus DID get beaten on a few occasions (I can remember one particular event involving Megatron and Hot Rod...), so he's imperfect. He makes mistakes, he loses sometimes, but he still wins in the end because he's one of the good guys and you can't very well have the villains always win.

I have to say that I guess I'm also more or less Drift neutral, maybe leaning a bit towards hate. What I've heard about him, I don't like, but I haven't actually seen or read about him in anything, so I can't make a reasonable opinion of him.

News Credits: 9 · by **Editor** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:30 pm

Dagon wrote:
Editor wrote:Just a quick point about Sunstorm. Sunstorm, while we "never realized it" has been a G1 character since 1984.

He will always get more acceptance than Drift regardless of how the character was re-introduced to us by DW, purely because of his origin as a E-Hobby figure based on his two second appearance in the MTMTE Part 1.

That's true, but as a converse arguement, nobody really gets worked up over "Acid Storm", and he was in the G1 cartoon for more seconds, and has a figure as well. I don't know your personal feelings on Sunstorm or Drift Editor, so please don't take me as being terrible, but that ^ seems like a Movieverse-style arguement, like "you don't like something just because it's different from G1". I'm Drift neutral, really, and I like DW Sunstorm for what they were doing with him, and I'm indifferent to Drift becuase of what IDW is doing with him. Drift fits as a G1 character and G1's my favorite, but that's not it. Maybe if IDW keeps developing Drift as a character, and doesn't just leave him as a super power, maybe then this 'hate' for him will diminish.

My views on Drift were stated on this thread early on, and while I like Sunstorm a bit more than Drift, I was only stating that some will always find him to be more geewun as the character can be traced back to the original cartoon, that is all.

News Credits: 1 · by **adamassc** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:59 pm

I'll be honest, I've only read the Spotlight issue, so past that I know very little about Drift. That being said, I treat Drift the same way I look at the PCC chars: If the toy is impressive, and the aesthetics of the character are solid, I like him.
His Uber-awesomeness in the comic doesn't bother me. He'll come across an opponent that his loner attitude cannot overcome.

A decepticon that stole what Drift earned. An equal devoid of honor.

Drift will meet his Sabetooth.

He'll fail, he'll learn, he'll become a better team soldier.

Ultimately, All this hatred of Drift makes me happy

Because people aren't hating RiD as hard :grin:

by **Torino_Prime** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:26 pm

Drift chafes at me because he was inserted into Gen One as if he had always been there, and he is looks kinda like a Gundam with that giant sword. I just don't see the need to add him into the Gen One lore. I am probably just too old to accept him now. His presence always disrupts my reading experience. I am glad he is getting his own mini series. If people like him, let them eat cake. Just don't put him in my Gen One continuity, because he is not Gen One. I know that comes off as purist, and maybe if he had been gently assuaged into the story I would have liked him better... but as it is now I just don't want anything to do with him.

News Credits: 668 · by **Autobot032** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:36 pm

Torino_Prime wrote:Drift chafes at me because he was inserted into Gen One as if he had always been there, and he is looks kinda like a Gundam with that giant sword. I just don't see the need to add him into the Gen One lore. I am probably just too old to accept him now. His presence always disrupts my reading experience. I am glad he is getting his own mini series. If people like him, let them eat cake. Just don't put him in my Gen One continuity, because he is not Gen One. I know that comes off as purist, and maybe if he had been gently assuaged into the story I would have liked him better... but as it is now I just don't want anything to do with him.

People felt the same way about Rodimus and crew. Lookit how that turned out.

Give it 20 years, Drift will be considered "t3h awesome".

by **Torino_Prime** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:59 pm

BTW I Hate Rodimus, Galvatron, the Quintessons, the Junkions, Unicron (sorry Orson), Scourge and the Sweeps, and most everything during and after the 86 movie. I can't believe I forgot Wheelie in that. I hate retarded Grimlock... I like him before the movie....
I like some of the other characters...

Ultra Magnus (whiny, but cool voice, love ya Robert Stack)
Springer
Blurr (annoying, but I can deal)
Arcee (no issues other than that weird Daniel mommy thing going on)
Cyclonus

I will say this I like when the alt modes were Earth based and not futuristic... but even in G1 I don't like the Alpha Trion, Primus, or anything psuedo-religious stuff. Just my tastes... I like to keep my fantasy and sci-fi seperate...just my opinion...

by **Catalyst Prime** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:20 am

I don't know a thing about Drift other than what people have posted here. But from what I gather he's basically a uber munch toon... Super Ninja...

I've never heard this term "Mary Sue" ect... before either so I'm kinda lost there.

As for the whole uberbot thing, I understand how ppl could not like him for that... I tend not to like any character that just appeares out of no where and is somehow more powerful than anyone else... But then that's a common thing in storytelling.

What's more, I can't think of a single transformers G1 Series where this dosn't happen. For example, In MTMTE, Optimus is toted as being the strongest of the Autobots, then you move into Headmasters and suddenly Fortress Maximus, who supposedly has been around just as long if not longer than Optimus is the strongest, then it comes the Masterforce series and God Ginrai is made and he's acclaimed to be the strongest, At the start of Victory One of the first things you hear is that Victory Saber is the Strongest of all Autobots...So what does that make the last 3? Rusted scrap?