The Energon Pub

News Credits: 1 · by **JetfireUK** » Thu May 31, 2007 5:16 am

This is such a fan-boy debate, I love it.

If we go by the colourschemes the toys were released in doesn't that make Rumble red and Frenzy blue? Rumble has the pile-drivers and Frenzy has a high-frequency attack - yes?

I just recall a UK comic issue (Robo-Buster?) that had Buster in an exo-suit and he took on Frenzy. I still remember the expression Frenzy as he wanted to pummel Buster. I took it as Frenzy as the casseticon was blue and used noise rather than his fists to pummel the fleshling.

Ultimately, this isn't a life or death issue, but it's interesting to see the debate for each way. Keep it up folks!

News Credits: 1 · by **Leonardo** » Thu May 31, 2007 5:20 am

JetfireUK wrote:If we go by the colourschemes the toys were released in doesn't that make Rumble red and Frenzy blue? Rumble has the pile-drivers and Frenzy has a high-frequency attack - yes?

That's what I thought. As for the UK comics, I don't remember them too well, so I can't comment.

I wonder why all these old debates are coming up again. Just recently we had that "Is there any evidence Wheeljack died?" thread.

News Credits: 1 · by **spiritofcat** » Thu May 31, 2007 5:25 am

I grew up with the toys and though I watched the cartoon a bit I didn't see a lot of it. I never had the toys of Rumble and Frenzy, and I didn't watch the show enough to form a strong association either way.
I'll go with Rumble is Red because most of the homages are Red. Particularly the Alternator.

News Credits: 1 · by **JetfireUK** » Thu May 31, 2007 5:36 am

Leonardo wrote:I wonder why all these old debates are coming up again. Just recently we had that "Is there any evidence Wheeljack died?" thread.

Maybe the fan base is either dropping off or the longer serving Seibertronians have moved on? :???:

Then again I'm seeing a lot of these Zombie-like threads making a comeback?

by **Lycantendencies** » Thu May 31, 2007 6:16 am

Bonger wrote:But why would this be the only instance where the cartoon consistently labeled a bot with the wrong name?

Someone will correct me if wrong, but there is a story that, unsure the toys would sell, they were told to give him one bot's colours and the other's name, therefore making kids want both.

Bonger wrote:However, in the toy line, they confused Rumble and Frenzy's names on the packaging just as they confused the tech specs for Skywarp and Starscream.

If that was true, if the packaging was mixed up and the bibles that the fiction used were right, why was comic Rumble red?

Also, as well as mixing up Starscream and Skywarps tech's, it's believed that Sideswipe and Sunstreaker got mixed tech's too, but we don't call them the opposite names because the techs were taken as canon, so why should Rumble and Frenzy be any different?

Rumble is red, G1 cartoon Rumble is blue. It's that simple.

Phenotype wrote:I don't even understand how this is an issue, all you have to ask yourselves is which came first?

Which came first, toy Bumblebee or cartoon Bumblebee?
Brawn? Ratchet? Ironhide?

The toy every time, but it is the cartoon versions that everyone considers the defining proper versions, with their human bodies and faces.
So you can see why people will credit the show and treat it as the defining version.

However, these things were dominant in ALL G1 fiction, blue Rumble was not, he's like blue helmet Megatron from the comic; like that since day one, but only in one format.

Not enough to define it in all aspects.
Unless Hasbro wanted to, which they didn't.

News Credits: 1 · by **Leonardo** » Thu May 31, 2007 6:22 am

Lycanthropictendencies wrote:Someone will correct me if wrong, but there is a story that, unsure the toys would sell, they were told to give him one bot's colours and the other's name, therefore making kids want both.

[...]

If that was true, if the packaging was mixed up and the bibles that the fiction used were right, why was comic Rumble red?

Also, as well as mixing up Starscream and Skywarps tech's, it's believed that Sideswipe and Sunstreaker got mixed tech's too, but we don't call them the opposite names because the techs were taken as canon, so why should Rumble and Frenzy be any different?

Good, interesting points.

Rumble is red, G1 cartoon Rumble is blue. It's that simple.

It is that simple!

by **Bonger** » Thu May 31, 2007 6:26 am

Good point. They did give Sunstreaker's jetpack to Sideswipe in the cartoon and stuck with it. However, that is not as big of an inconsistency.

On the alternater issue, ofcourse the homage is red, as the orginal toy was red as well.

However, look at the abilities Rumble had in the toon. He uses the Pil drivers. That was his primary ability. Not noise as Frenzy's wou;d have been. Not only did they use Rumble's coloring, but his abilities as well. The toon version was definatly ment to be Rumble and not Frenzy.

And if I recall it correctly, the toon version was blue. :-P

Hence, Rumble is blue.

News Credits: 1 · by **JetfireUK** » Thu May 31, 2007 6:31 am

Rumble was purple in the cartoon

Anyway, so it looks like we have a wide divide here - I guess it's all down to the individual collector now

News Credits: 1 · by **Leonardo** » Thu May 31, 2007 6:35 am

Bonger wrote:However, look at the abilities Rumble had in the toon. He uses the Pil drivers. That was his primary ability. Not noise as Frenzy's wou;d have been. Not only did they use Rumble's coloring, but his abilities as well. The toon version was definatly ment to be Rumble and not Frenzy.

But in the cartoon continuity they both had the piledrivers. I don't remember if the high-frequency attack was ever used by either of them.

by **Bonger** » Thu May 31, 2007 7:05 am

Leonardo wrote:
Bonger wrote:However, look at the abilities Rumble had in the toon. He uses the Pil drivers. That was his primary ability. Not noise as Frenzy's wou;d have been. Not only did they use Rumble's coloring, but his abilities as well. The toon version was definatly ment to be Rumble and not Frenzy.

But in the cartoon continuity they both had the piledrivers. I don't remember if the high-frequency attack was ever used by either of them.

Same here. I don't believe it ever was.

Let me put it another way. If someone sold you a Red G1 18 wheeler and called it Jazz, what would you have? IDC what name is on the package. A red 18 wheeler is prime, Meister?? he is Jazz to me, and so on and so forth. And oh, Rumble is blue.

News Credits: 1 · by **Leonardo** » Thu May 31, 2007 7:10 am

Bonger wrote:
Leonardo wrote:
Bonger wrote:However, look at the abilities Rumble had in the toon. He uses the Pil drivers. That was his primary ability. Not noise as Frenzy's wou;d have been. Not only did they use Rumble's coloring, but his abilities as well. The toon version was definatly ment to be Rumble and not Frenzy.

But in the cartoon continuity they both had the piledrivers. I don't remember if the high-frequency attack was ever used by either of them.

Same here. I don't believe it ever was.

Let me put it another way. If someone sold you a Red G1 18 wheeler and called it Jazz, what would you have? IDC what name is on the package. A red 18 wheeler is prime, Meister?? he is Jazz to me, and so on and so forth. And oh, Rumble is blue.

I'm not sure that example works! A red 18 wheeler is entirely different to a white Porsche. Rumble and Frenzy were identical. Even Prowl, Smokescreen and Bluestreak had little differences besides the colour, but Rumble and Frenzy were exactly the same, save for the colour schemes.

by **NightScream** » Thu May 31, 2007 12:14 pm

Yep, they were identical. Just like Rewind and Eject. But those two werent as popular as Rumble and Frenzy.
Gotta love these re-hashing of old little differences. Either way its fun being a transfan, even though some of you on here are way ahead of me. I dont even have one toy..lol

by **Bonger** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:06 am

Well, here is my last reason for Rumble being blue. I was saving this one for the end as this is a doozie.

Would you have ever gotten any Transformers if there was no cartoon? For me, personally, the cartoon is the be all and end all for everything Transformers. I plan on slimming down my G1 collection soon, to only those seen in the show as I have realized over time that all others, as cool as they may be, mean nothing to me.

So Rumble is blue as he was in the cartoon. It may be an error in the animation, or the error may have been in the toy packaging, it is irrelevant in a way as imo, without the cartoon, this website probably would not exist. And if it did, I most certainly would not be here right now.

Besides, just cause Hasbro labeled the red tape Rumble means little to me. Since when has Hasbro been reliable or mildly intelligent in anything it has ever done. Well, besides the initial importing of the TF concept. ;-)

And in the end folks, Rumble is blue.

by **UnitedJazz** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:26 am

Nujevad wrote:In the original toyline, Rumble was always Red while Frenzy was blue, when the cartoons cam, they did the old switcheroo and called Frenzy Rumble and vice versa.

Well actually I like the reversefault from the G1 animated series.

News Credits: 349 · by **Bed Bugs** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:41 am

I'm surprised no body brought up Swoop yet with the toy being red and the cartoon being blue. It's obvious that at the time, the left hand did not know what the right hand was doing.

News Credits: 33 · by **Glyph** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:17 am

Bonger wrote:However, look at the abilities Rumble had in the toon. He uses the Pil drivers. That was his primary ability. Not noise as Frenzy's wou;d have been. Not only did they use Rumble's coloring, but his abilities as well. The toon version was definatly ment to be Rumble and not Frenzy.

And if I recall it correctly, the toon version was blue.

Hence, Rumble is blue.

Great argument, except... as was said last time this 'debate' came up, and probably every time before, the character in the 'toon was clearly Rumble, not Frenzy. He was just the wrong colour (whether deliberately or accidentally), because the reference work done by Marvel for the comic and afterwards used by the cartoon makers specified Rumble as red.

The robot in the toon wasn't meant to be Frenzy and just given the wrong name. He was meant to be Rumble and just given the wrong colour.

Bonger wrote:Would you have ever gotten any Transformers if there was no cartoon? For me, personally, the cartoon is the be all and end all for everything Transformers.

Yes, I would, because I hardly saw any of the cartoon as a kid. I got the comic instead, where Rumble was given the right colours.

This is also a point I've made before, but I consider it an interesting demographics perspective so... It's notable that the 'cartoon purist' attitude ("the cartoon is the be all and end all", Rumble is blue, Quints created the Transformers, etc) is a primarily US-based one, because the main source of TF fiction and indirect advertising there was the cartoon. The stereotypical US fan aged around 25-30 grew up with the cartoon, and considers it the primary canon for the whole of Transformers.

By contrast, the stereotypical European fan - and other non-US fans? I'm not entirely sure - refers to the comics (if they collected them) or the toyline (if they didn't), because the cartoon didn't achieve the same level of penetration here and the weekly UK comic was generally far superior to both the cartoon and much of the US material (another reason why the stereotypical US fan was more likely to be into the cartoon than the comic). Hence non-US fans are much more likely to subscribe to the Rumble Is Red viewpoint.

Overall though, I find it easiest to not worry too much about cross-continuity 'definitives' and just follow what was said above: Rumble is red, except in the cartoon, where he's purple.

News Credits: 1 · by **Leonardo** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:02 am

Bonger wrote:Well, here is my last reason for Rumble being blue. I was saving this one for the end as this is a doozie.

Would you have ever gotten any Transformers if there was no cartoon? For me, personally, the cartoon is the be all and end all for everything Transformers. I plan on slimming down my G1 collection soon, to only those seen in the show as I have realized over time that all others, as cool as they may be, mean nothing to me.

Yes, I would have done. I never liked the cartoon much until Rodimus Prime and Galvatron entered the fray. I didn't read the comics that much as a child, but I did prefer the toys over the cartoon.

Again I refer to what lycanthropictendencies and Glyph said: he's red, except in the cartoon.

by **Bonger** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:13 am

Fair enough.

I tried reading the comics, and it wasn't happening. Comics just don't do it for me, never have.

However, without the cartoon, I definately would never have gotteninto this whole thing. Also, I don't think I fit the mold for the stereotypical collecter. It is the only toy line that I buy, I don't read comics, and have never had any onterest in any other toy li9ne or carton series. Somehow the TF cartoon just did it for me.

It really does come down to what ones first association to TFs was.

However, I thought I read that the comic never specified which was which?

News Credits: 1 · by **Leonardo** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:18 am

Bonger wrote:However, I thought I read that the comic never specified which was which?

I think that was only the Dreamwave comics. I only remember one scene with the pair in it, though, and while they didn't specify which was which in that scene, I can't in good conscience tell you they never specified in later issues.

I've only really been interested in the comics since Dreamwave started their run, and the only ones I've truly liked are the newer ones from IDW. I've read the Marvel Titan reprints, both US and UK, but only once or twice when borrowed from the library. Since I've had such little contact with them, the Marvel comics haven't defined my personal outlook on Transformers. I do believe, however, that Marvel may have specified which was which in there TF profile books.

News Credits: 33 · by **Glyph** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:58 pm

Leonardo wrote:
Bonger wrote:However, I thought I read that the comic never specified which was which?

I think that was only the Dreamwave comics. I only remember one scene with the pair in it, though, and while they didn't specify which was which in that scene, I can't in good conscience tell you they never specified in later issues.

While I don't think they were specified in the issue they appeared in (War Within vol 3?), they were very definitely specified in Dreamwave's MTMTE series, which was an attempt to document every single G1 character within DW's new, heavily cartoon-influenced continuity. Rumble, for the record, was specified as red.

News Credits: 7 · by **Zeedust** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:06 pm

I'm personally of the opinion that the two are more or less interchangeable. Or possibly that they sawap color schemes every once in a while just to confuse people. Possibly, they themselves have forgotten

Anyway, there's really no answer to this. Call 'em what you darn well please.