The Energon Pub

GetterDragun wrote:I don't understand what you are saying? How can you compete in the real world with figures? The only example you gave was a board, which I am assuming is a message board on-line? I think forums are the real world of collecting, I've had no exposure to non-forum collecting, is there one? I mean, I can see meet-up groups, but most of these you find out about on-line through fourms.

The other collecting I do is cars and while we meet up at Racetracks, the forums play an important role in organizing the events, getting guests to attend, and just providing the news of the event to people who couldn't go. So I don't really see adifferentiation between the real world and posting about it?

I'm just confused how those you listed can differ so much from what we do?

Is there a non-forum collecting? You had better believe it.
Some years ago well before internet forum boards were around people actually got up, left their houses and occasionally ran into other collectors in their toy hunt travels to their favorite "toy stores". Sometimes you would meet up with others that shared the same interests as you.
There used to be local Hot Wheels collectors club where people got together to discuss, trade and some would gloat in what they had found (treasure hunts and such) as far as Hot wheels are concerned. anyway it got members through word of mouth and fliers in certain retail stores. Not the internet.

How can you compete in the real world with figures? It is simple.
Here is an example
When I used to collect mcfarlane sportspicks there was a couple of local guys that when I would run into them (and they made the rounds frequently so I ran into them alot) and during conversations the more recent figure releases would be brought up (or they would fish for info to see what you knew) and then they would ask "oh did you find this or that" And if I (or as I have heard them ask other people) answered no to something that they had found first a comment would be passed like "you better hurry I am almost finshed the current wave of figures and you are not" like it was some sort of competition.

I know a local that collects Marvel Legends and he is a completest. He has on more than one occasion passed the comment to me "if you don't collect the whole series then why bother collecting any of them at all".

A competition can be as simple as waiting outside a TRU before it opens, there being other collectors also waiting and when the store opens they have a mad rush to get whatever new figures off the pegs before you.
I have witnessed fights break out because someone grabs all of a certain new figure not allowing anyone else to get them (saw this with Star Wars a couple of times).

Through the years and through toy collecting I have made some good friends, hell me and 4 other guys help each other out by calling each other when we find something Star Wars, DC or Marvel related. And we met by bumping into each other in stores not over the internet.

The same kind of competition can be done over the internet, someone could know that you want a certain figure and they could have it and "rub it in your face" that you don't.

But like everyone else has said I don't compete with anyone. I just buy what I like and am happy with that.

If a person is collecting as an investment...then he who dies with the most toys... well... Enjoyed them?

As a collector I like to enjoy my toys, so collecting as an investment is not my prioraty. In all honesty, I doubt most of them will be worth much in the end. But to me, they are worth something.

Sunstar wrote:As a collector I like to enjoy my toys, so collecting as an investment is not my prioraty. In all honesty, I doubt most of them will be worth much in the end. But to me, they are worth something.

Same here, I collect because I enjoy collecting..
If I did not collect I would most likely hang in bars, drink alot and get into trouble.
My wife says at least she knows where my money is going with me collecting.

I think there definatley becomes a point where it gets very competitive. Most of what I want for my collection is also highly covetted by others...many with MUCH deeper pockets than my own. Look at cases like the G2 Stunticons...did I want them...HELL YES, and I pushed the envelope far beyond the "good lord Julie is going to hurt me if I win these" point...and still lost. Ditto for the G2 Laser Cylces Jazz & Soundwave and a number of other G2 and Universe. It was the same with the Japanese cassettes, sure I wanted them, but so do more collectors than I care to count.

Cyber Bishop wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:I don't understand what you are saying? How can you compete in the real world with figures? The only example you gave was a board, which I am assuming is a message board on-line? I think forums are the real world of collecting, I've had no exposure to non-forum collecting, is there one? I mean, I can see meet-up groups, but most of these you find out about on-line through fourms.

The other collecting I do is cars and while we meet up at Racetracks, the forums play an important role in organizing the events, getting guests to attend, and just providing the news of the event to people who couldn't go. So I don't really see adifferentiation between the real world and posting about it?

I'm just confused how those you listed can differ so much from what we do?

Is there a non-forum collecting? You had better believe it.
Some years ago well before internet forum boards were around people actually got up, left their houses and occasionally ran into other collectors in their toy hunt travels to their favorite "toy stores". Sometimes you would meet up with others that shared the same interests as you.
There used to be local Hot Wheels collectors club where people got together to discuss, trade and some would gloat in what they had found (treasure hunts and such) as far as Hot wheels are concerned. anyway it got members through word of mouth and fliers in certain retail stores. Not the internet.

How can you compete in the real world with figures? It is simple.
Here is an example
When I used to collect mcfarlane sportspicks there was a couple of local guys that when I would run into them (and they made the rounds frequently so I ran into them alot) and during conversations the more recent figure releases would be brought up (or they would fish for info to see what you knew) and then they would ask "oh did you find this or that" And if I (or as I have heard them ask other people) answered no to something that they had found first a comment would be passed like "you better hurry I am almost finshed the current wave of figures and you are not" like it was some sort of competition.

I know a local that collects Marvel Legends and he is a completest. He has on more than one occasion passed the comment to me "if you don't collect the whole series then why bother collecting any of them at all".

A competition can be as simple as waiting outside a TRU before it opens, there being other collectors also waiting and when the store opens they have a mad rush to get whatever new figures off the pegs before you.
I have witnessed fights break out because someone grabs all of a certain new figure not allowing anyone else to get them (saw this with Star Wars a couple of times).

Through the years and through toy collecting I have made some good friends, hell me and 4 other guys help each other out by calling each other when we find something Star Wars, DC or Marvel related. And we met by bumping into each other in stores not over the internet.

The same kind of competition can be done over the internet, someone could know that you want a certain figure and they could have it and "rub it in your face" that you don't.

But like everyone else has said I don't compete with anyone. I just buy what I like and am happy with that.

Wow, that's crazy! I guess I'm just spoiled by e-bay and the forums. But still, I don't see the point of talking like that to someone (I got more figures than you), unless you based your whole life on that, it just seems pointless to compare. Besides, if someone said that to me, I'd just laugh and tell them their car sucked or something personally insulting to them.

GetterDragun wrote:Wow, that's crazy! I guess I'm just spoiled by e-bay and the forums. But still, I don't see the point of talking like that to someone (I got more figures than you), unless you based your whole life on that, it just seems pointless to compare. Besides, if someone said that to me, I'd just laugh and tell them their car sucked or something personally insulting to them.

I have never been able to understand it either..
I guess I just figured things like this must have happened to someone else..

Sometimes I really do miss the old pre-Internet, pre-Ebay days. There used to be toy shows nearly every weekend and swap meets where there really was a "thrill of the hunt" mentality. The collectors here were all freindly. Then there was Toy Shop which was like Master Collector but still relevant because there was no online ads to compete with I dislike what Ebay has done to that old freindly mentality and the utter death of toy shows and collectible shops...as one of my old dealers said when he closed "why pay rent and sell to the same couple dozen guys when I can get a global community to compete and give me 10x what I thought I'd get".

I don't collect to show anybody up, my collection is simply what I do...I went public with my pics only after my local sources dried up and many of the dealers simply didn't know my name. I could fire off an e-mail and say "I'm looking for Noizu" and I'd get a reply along the lines of "You and everybody else buddy" I show my pics off and suddenly those responses turned into "I'll get right back to you". Showing off had nothing to do with my fellow collectors or showing off, it was about building up my sources for toys

I wouldnt say that i am in competiton with other collector's...saying so would imply a degree of spite when somebody obtains one of there grails. I do not feel that way, even if it is something that i would care for myself.

However, I do often find myself falling prey to the "get it now or never be able to find it mentallity." Which in most circumstances is an extreme. This i suppose is more of a personality quirk than a collector's mentallity, as it stems into every hobby that i have. I buy cars as quickly as I can because i "may not be able to find one that nice again at that price"...yeah i can probably find one cheaper. "I have to buy this guitar now because its a gibson custom and may be hard to obtain later"...not if u actually try to find it...etc, etc, etc...

rant over

Hey Dragonclaw,
THANK YOU for reminding me of Toy Shop. God what a great magazine. I remember the first year I had a subscription it was just standard 3rd class mail and ANY TIME you inquired about something cool to buy it was usually already sold. Next year I bumped it up to first class. It was a pretty thick read too. Majority of my collection came from that magazine. God, when the sh*t was cheap...

_Dragonclaw_ wrote:Sometimes I really do miss the old pre-Internet, pre-Ebay days. There used to be toy shows nearly every weekend and swap meets where there really was a "thrill of the hunt" mentality. The collectors here were all freindly. Then there was Toy Shop which was like Master Collector but still relevant because there was no online ads to compete with I dislike what Ebay has done to that old freindly mentality and the utter death of toy shows and collectible shops...as one of my old dealers said when he closed "why pay rent and sell to the same couple dozen guys when I can get a global community to compete and give me 10x what I thought I'd get".

I don't collect to show anybody up, my collection is simply what I do...I went public with my pics only after my local sources dried up and many of the dealers simply didn't know my name. I could fire off an e-mail and say "I'm looking for Noizu" and I'd get a reply along the lines of "You and everybody else buddy" I show my pics off and suddenly those responses turned into "I'll get right back to you". Showing off had nothing to do with my fellow collectors or showing off, it was about building up my sources for toys

Excellent post.. I remember days like that as well.

My favourite time collecting was probably the late 90s and 2000. I managed to find two or three shops which had some really nice Gen 1 transformers.

I think that back then it was more the thrill of the chase - I had to find the figure. Recently it got to a stage where I'd simply pre-order online or via people I know and the figure would arrive a little while later. It seemed that the challenge to find the figure had gone and was replaced by the daft notion to get a figure 'first'.

Ebay has simply changed the manner in which collectors get their fix. In some ways it enables anyone to be a collector but the flipside are the bloody scalpers.

Personally I miss the stories attached to finding a figure I own.

JetfireUK, as a Brit do you know many 'real-life' (for lack of a better phrase) Transformers collectors? If so, did you chance upon them prior to SEIBERTRON.com or after?

Leonardo wrote:JetfireUK, as a Brit do you know many 'real-life' (for lack of a better phrase) Transformers collectors? If so, did you chance upon them prior to SEIBERTRON.com or after?

Back in the late nineties I thought that I was the only one! The shops I used to frequent had TF stuff but the guys in the shops weren't collectors - they just bought and sold what they had.

It wasn't until a couple of years ago that I met Timban via a trade deal on a separate site. Simply we lived 40mins away from each other and it made sense. Since then I've briefly met a couple of other fans (again via trades) and on other sites.

Anyone I've met has been (relatively ) normal and enjoys the hobby. Of course everyone asks what figures do they collect and what their best/most expensive figure is - I guess it's just a habit.

JetfireUK wrote:My favourite time collecting was probably the late 90s and 2000. I managed to find two or three shops which had some really nice Gen 1 transformers.

I think that back then it was more the thrill of the chase - I had to find the figure. Recently it got to a stage where I'd simply pre-order online or via people I know and the figure would arrive a little while later. It seemed that the challenge to find the figure had gone and was replaced by the daft notion to get a figure 'first'.

Ebay has simply changed the manner in which collectors get their fix. In some ways it enables anyone to be a collector but the flipside are the bloody scalpers.

Personally I miss the stories attached to finding a figure I own.

I dunno, the number of times I've had to search for Titianium Rodimus, followed by the drama of my card running out of date the day he did arive in my area, and me running home like a crazed schoolboy when I finally did manage to lay my hands on him...

The stories are still there.

And I went through phaze of ebaying, I bought a lot of random tfs, and I (again) was like a crazed schoolboy when each and every one arived. For some tf, you still have to hunt, even on ebay you know.

And I'd trade the hunt for the knoladge Im actully gonna get that TF I really want anyday.

Leonardo wrote:JetfireUK, as a Brit do you know many 'real-life' (for lack of a better phrase) Transformers collectors? If so, did you chance upon them prior to SEIBERTRON.com or after?

Closest I have to real life tf collecting friends is one of my mates from close by who has a large collection of tfs left over from his childhood, though he cant really aford to buy new ones.

I suppose what I mean is the thrill of walking into a dusty shop, looking around the sci-fi figures and then spotting something such as a MISB Gen 1 Wheeljack (Classics) for a cheap price.

That was one of my favourites

Then again Red is right, if it wasn't for one of the predecessors of Ebay I wouldn't have my Jetfire

One thing I enjoy more now is buying figures of fellow Seibertronians. It's nice feeding each others' addictions

I know what you mean. I performed my first Seibs trade last week or so and it was so good to deal with someone who actually enjoys the hobby, rather than a scalper or Ebay user who found them in his closet.

Leonardo wrote:I know what you mean. I performed my first Seibs trade last week or so and it was so good to deal with someone who actually enjoys the hobby, rather than a scalper or Ebay user who found them in his closet.

I've only done trades with folks off the Disgruntled Brits forum, but everyone I've bought or sold figures too has been 100% honest. It's also been nice to sell my figures on to people who will actually appreciate them - rather than think 'I've got a good price for that - I'll sell it on for a profit'.

This is a good community and one I feel proud to be part of.

I echo Getter's sentiments, better safe then sorry. I buy what I want when I see it, which results in a rather large collection. Of course, being a single nonparent with a great job gives me an advantage.

Jokes aside, what I find frustrating about this fandom is the need to point fingers, period. It's all so polarized, all these pointless dichotomies: collector vs scalper, hardcore fan vs casual, MISB vs. Open, Play vs Display, Toy Collector vs "Canon" Collector, etc. It's a lost cause and can suck the life out of you if you let it. That isn't to say that we should all be the same, just focus on our similarities as collectors, not our differences.

I like to know other collectors for enjoyment, not endless badgering because I don't remember exactly what happened at 2:05 into the third segment of episode 40 of the G1 series. Or how I'm not a true fan because I didn't make it a point to learn Japanese so I could watch Zone without dubbing or subtitles. Or how I'm a selfish bastard because I ::gasp:: bought more than one of a figure!! I ripped some poor kid's heart out! These are the types to whom I will say plainly: Get a life. When what used to make you happy is now making you miserable, time to move on.

As for the competition discussion, I do think that collecting is competetive in the sense of poor case ratios and distibution. Look at what hell it was collecting the Energon line, and how bad Alt distribution was. Part of the rush of finding something that you have been looking for involves a sense of triumph, however pointless. That is healthy competition, and it makes collecting interesting.

But if you are honestly fretting about the fact that someone out there might have a bigger collection than you, then I won't bother explaining the Freudian psychology involved.

JetfireUK,
I've got a question for you. From my years around the block, I've noticed that TF stuff in the UK is hellashisly expensive. This applies more so to dealers selling older merchandise. My jaw would drop at some of the British dealers prices for stuff at Botcon. Is their a explanation for this? Is there more to it than just the VAT? Do you find it cheaper to purchase newer items online from US sellers?
Lastly, have you ever eatin' at a place in London called Mr. Au's All You Can Eat China Buffet?

transmetropolitan wrote:JetfireUK,
I've got a question for you. From my years around the block, I've noticed that TF stuff in the UK is hellashisly expensive. This applies more so to dealers selling older merchandise. My jaw would drop at some of the British dealers prices for stuff at Botcon. Is their a explanation for this? Is there more to it than just the VAT? Do you find it cheaper to purchase newer items online from US sellers?
Lastly, have you ever eatin' at a place in London called Mr. Au's All You Can Eat China Buffet?

Regular tfs are more expencive here in the UK, I suspect that's partly cuase everything is, we also get paid more than you guys too (I know a fair few peeps from the US who get way under our minimum wage). In the case of online shoping, it is often not really worth ordering from US sites, becuase even if the price is cheaper, the excesive shipping often makes the difference all but none-existent.

Redimus wrote:

transmetropolitan wrote:JetfireUK,
I've got a question for you. From my years around the block, I've noticed that TF stuff in the UK is hellashisly expensive. This applies more so to dealers selling older merchandise. My jaw would drop at some of the British dealers prices for stuff at Botcon. Is their a explanation for this? Is there more to it than just the VAT? Do you find it cheaper to purchase newer items online from US sellers?
Lastly, have you ever eatin' at a place in London called Mr. Au's All You Can Eat China Buffet?

Regular tfs are more expencive here in the UK, I suspect that's partly cuase everything is, we also get paid more than you guys too (I know a fair few peeps from the US who get way under our minimum wage). In the case of online shoping, it is often not really worth ordering from US sites, becuase even if the price is cheaper, the excesive shipping often makes the difference all but none-existent.

off subject, but out of curiousity...what IS minimum wage around there?

Gutter Bunny wrote:

Redimus wrote:

transmetropolitan wrote:JetfireUK,
I've got a question for you. From my years around the block, I've noticed that TF stuff in the UK is hellashisly expensive. This applies more so to dealers selling older merchandise. My jaw would drop at some of the British dealers prices for stuff at Botcon. Is their a explanation for this? Is there more to it than just the VAT? Do you find it cheaper to purchase newer items online from US sellers?
Lastly, have you ever eatin' at a place in London called Mr. Au's All You Can Eat China Buffet?

Regular tfs are more expencive here in the UK, I suspect that's partly cuase everything is, we also get paid more than you guys too (I know a fair few peeps from the US who get way under our minimum wage). In the case of online shoping, it is often not really worth ordering from US sites, becuase even if the price is cheaper, the excesive shipping often makes the difference all but none-existent.

off subject, but out of curiousity...what IS minimum wage around there?

£5.10, i think... I know Im on a little more than minimum wage cuase I handle money (£5.50). I belive thats around $10us.

_Dragonclaw_ wrote:Sometimes I really do miss the old pre-Internet, pre-Ebay days. There used to be toy shows nearly every weekend and swap meets where there really was a "thrill of the hunt" mentality. The collectors here were all freindly. Then there was Toy Shop which was like Master Collector but still relevant because there was no online ads to compete with I dislike what Ebay has done to that old freindly mentality and the utter death of toy shows and collectible shops...as one of my old dealers said when he closed "why pay rent and sell to the same couple dozen guys when I can get a global community to compete and give me 10x what I thought I'd get".)

For me, it's stil the thrill of the hunt, but I try to see how little I can pay for some things, be it in store sales or scouring eBay, I love nothing more than seeing a figure in stores, and then getting it for half of the price a few months later off of eBay or off clearance. That's how I got my 20th anni. battle damamged Prime loose complete for 6 bucks and my Alt. Battle Ravage MIB for 7, just to name a few.

I still love to go to flea markets, yard/garage/tag sales and the occasional toy show to find stuff. You never know what you are gonna find.

transmetropolitan wrote:JetfireUK,
I've got a question for you. From my years around the block, I've noticed that TF stuff in the UK is hellashisly expensive. This applies more so to dealers selling older merchandise. My jaw would drop at some of the British dealers prices for stuff at Botcon. Is their a explanation for this? Is there more to it than just the VAT? Do you find it cheaper to purchase newer items online from US sellers?
Lastly, have you ever eatin' at a place in London called Mr. Au's All You Can Eat China Buffet?

Red's pretty much answered you there, but I'll add my two pence.

Brits to some degree do get a bum in respect of prices for figures. Roughly £5 equals $10 so if you went to a UK Toys R US you pay the same price but the value would be more for you Americans.

With regards to original figures prices vary. I've tended to sell my stuff here on Carbombya rather than on Ebay - so those who have bought off me generally would have got a better price than having a bidding war on ebay. The Disgruntled Brits thread is also a great way for us Brits to help each other out with harder to find stuff.

Edit: I should also mention that because there are a number of harder to find original figures (such as the Delux Insecticons, Shockwave, Jetfire, Roadbuster and Whirl) Brits may pay higher prices for these figures. I think that those I've mentioned were readily available in both the States and Jaapan.