The Energon Pub

How well did the new figure (Generations or any other line) capture/represent/depict the character in their new toy?

Who got it right and who got it wrong? Who is right on? Who is in need of a new Generations figure?

The goal of the Masterpiece line is G1 cartoon accuracy. But the Generations line has a different goal. The goal of the Generations line seems to be to update the designs of characters that we know of from previous lines. It could be said that the goal is to capture the spirit of the character. The character should feel like the character but it doesn’t have to be exactly the same as an earlier version.

The discussion is not limited to the Generations line, since some figures show up in other lines that fit well on a Generations/Classics shelf.

Here are some of the ones that I have been thinking about:

Classics Prime – 95% That is Prime, but I am docking him a few points because the character doesn’t have arm shields.
Jazz RTS– 100%
Jetfire Classics – 100% He’s no Valkyrie and he’s no MP, but that is are great toy and that is Jetfire. It is a very nice blend of cartoon and toy Jetfire.
Blaster FOC – 95% MP Soundwave and Blaster should be tape players, but I have no problem with them turning into trucks for Generations.
Kup – 95%
Wheelie 3DO – 35%

Grimlock Classics – 65% He had the colors and the face, but that was not Grimlock.
Grimlock FOC – 90%
Grimlock MP –100%


Megatron WFC – 90%
Cyclonus – 100%
Starscream – 100%
Other seekers – 100%

Shockwave BH – 85%
Shockwave FOC – 70%

All of my Classics+ figures represent their respective characters very well. I think Megatron, however, is one of the weaker ones I can think of. The wings kind of kill it, plus the white coloring.


Universe Galvatron looks okay, but he's probably one of the more obvious choices for "needing a new figure" per-say.

TK415 wrote:Shockwave BH – 85%

But...Beast Hunters isn't a Generations line.

PrymeStriker wrote:All of my Classics+ figures represent their respective characters very well. I think Megatron, however, is one of the weaker ones I can think of. The wings kind of kill it, plus the white coloring.


Universe Galvatron looks okay, but he's probably one of the more obvious choices for "needing a new figure" per-say.

TK415 wrote:Shockwave BH – 85%

But...Beast Hunters isn't a Generations line.

I know, but the Terrorcons are being released under the Beast Hunters line, aren't people going to put them on their Classics shelf? They are straight G1 updates. Energon Shockwave was Classics Shockwave for many people for years, including myself. I guess it just depends on how exclusive your classics shelf is. But that is sort of what I am curious about. I don't separate my figures by line, I mix and match. For me I want a Classics Shockwave. Gen FOC Shockwave is too small for me, he looks good with all of the other FOC toys, but I didn't buy all of them (or maybe I did now that I think about it, but I didn't put them all togehter). For my collection Shockwave needs to be a Voyager. BH Shockwave is a great Classics Shockwave for me. Even if he isn't someone's Classics Shockwave it is interesting to see how close he is to your idea of Shockwave. I'm not saying let's rate every figure with the same name from different lines. But, if you were in search of a Classics Grimlock over the years how well did the different versions from different lines work for you?

TK415 wrote:
I know, but the Terrorcons are being released under the Beast Hunters line, aren't people going to put them on their Classics shelf? They are straight G1 updates. Energon Shockwave was Classics Shockwave for many people for years, including myself. I guess it just depends on how exclusive your classics shelf is. But that is sort of what I am curious about. I don't separate my figures by line, I mix and match. For me I want a Classics Shockwave. Gen FOC Shockwave is too small for me, he looks good with all of the other FOC toys, but I didn't buy all of them (or maybe I did now that I think about it, but I didn't put them all togehter). For my collection Shockwave needs to be a Voyager. BH Shockwave is a great Classics Shockwave for me. Even if he isn't someone's Classics Shockwave it is interesting to see how close he is to your idea of Shockwave. I'm not saying let's rate every figure with the same name from different lines. But, if you were in search of a Classics Grimlock over the years how well did the different versions from different lines work for you?

No, I understand that someone would use Beast Hunters Shockwave & Terrorpreds as their Neo-G1 characters, but I thought the topic was gearing towards the Generations line itself, which did not include Beast Hunters, and as such I was confused by your listing. Then I read the end of the OP.

Here's the thing with guys like Universe Cyclonus, he isn't a Classics character. I just noticed while checking his packaging, he's listed as Generation 1, in fact all the show accurate Universe figures are listed as Generation 1, while updated designs like Galvatron are listed as Classics.

Kinda cool, but also kinda useless considering they could have just made them part of the same subline since nobody really noticed (hell I didn't) just makes it too hard and weird for the OTT collectors.

Dead Metal wrote:Here's the thing with guys like Universe Cyclonus, he isn't a Classics character. I just noticed while checking his packaging, he's listed as Generation 1, in fact all the show accurate Universe figures are listed as Generation 1, while updated designs like Galvatron are listed as Classics.

Kinda cool, but also kinda useless considering they could have just made them part of the same subline since nobody really noticed (hell I didn't) just makes it too hard and weird for the OTT collectors.

Universe (1.0) was the 2003 update line.

Classics was the 2006 update line.

Universe (2.0) was the 2008 update line. The Universe 2.0 line made mention of which continuity the characters came from. So, for example, Universe Cheetor and Dinobot's packaging said Beast Wars, while Hot Shot's said Armada.

Generations (and subsequent sub-brandings thereof) have been the running update lines since 2010.

What with all the different lines, people just tend to lump them all into "Classics," even if that's not the line they originate from, that's the place they take (as an update to the G1 character).

By the way, if you'd read the OP, you'd have noticed that he specifically mentions that this thread is about taking any figure you like and comparing it to an 'ideal' of how you want to fill G1-universe the character's spot in a collection, regardless of what line they are from.

RAcast wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Here's the thing with guys like Universe Cyclonus, he isn't a Classics character. I just noticed while checking his packaging, he's listed as Generation 1, in fact all the show accurate Universe figures are listed as Generation 1, while updated designs like Galvatron are listed as Classics.

Kinda cool, but also kinda useless considering they could have just made them part of the same subline since nobody really noticed (hell I didn't) just makes it too hard and weird for the OTT collectors.

Universe (1.0) was the 2003 update line.

Nope, not an update line, just a line that took place in a weird new universe that was populated with abducted characters from different universes and eras represented with strange repaints of old molds.

Classics was the 2006 update line.

I know.

Universe (2.0) was the 2008 update line. The Universe 2.0 line made mention of which continuity the characters came from. So, for example, Universe Cheetor and Dinobot's packaging said Beast Wars, while Hot Shot's said Armada.

The correct title would be Universe 2008, 2.0 would imply that it's a continuation of the original Universe line. It was also not really an update line, it was an umbrella line which consisted of updates and new figures for almost all lines till that point, some of which where reinterpretations (RID Bruticus), attempts at show accuracy (Beast Wars Cheetor, Dinobot, Generation 1 Starscream, Cyclonus), modern day updates (Classics Galvatron, Sunstreaker/ Sideswipe), and repackings (Galaxy Force Optimus Prime vs Crumplezone) and the Legends Class Animated toys.
And, I know that, that's what I said, Cyclonus's packaging said Generation 1, Galvatron said Classics, Inferno said Generation 2, Overload said Armada, etc..

Generations (and subsequent sub-brandings thereof) have been the running update lines since 2010.

Not quite, some are updates ala Classics (Perceptor, Coneheads, Skulgrin), and then there are the ones that are based on a specific incarnation (the first wave was mostly WFC, then there was until recently FOC and currently it's the idw comic incarnations).
What with all the different lines, people just tend to lump them all into "Classics," even if that's not the line they originate from, that's the place they take (as an update to the G1 character).
[/quote]
Yea I know, that's what I also do, or did since I've stopped collecting "Classics".

By the way, if you'd read the OP, you'd have noticed that he specifically mentions that this thread is about taking any figure you like and comparing it to an 'ideal' of how you want to fill G1-universe the character's spot in a collection, regardless of what line they are from.

Oh I read the OP, the OP starts talking about the Generations line, and then talks about the "Classics-esq" toys he then mentions in his second post toys from different lines, one of which was Universe, sorry, Universe 2008 25th Anniversary Generations 1 series Cyclonus and how accurate they are to the G1 version of the character. All I did was mention a possibility for why Universe 2008 25th Anniversary Generations 1 series Deluxe Class Cyclonus and Nightstick was such a perfect fit.

Right. Sorry for the confusion gentlemen.

So, to get back on track. Here is one of the ones that I was wondering about. How happy are you with Onslaught? He has a Universe release and a FOC release. Kup, WFC Megatron, and FOC Blaster are all right on for me, changed and different, but I like them. But I can’t decide about Onslaught. I can’t decide on a grade for him like I could for the others. I guess I feel like: change the alt mode or design but keep the iconic pieces. FOC Onslaught doesn’t have the back cannon. Universe Onslaught does but his face doesn’t look like Onslaught to me.

Also, what about Powerglide and Sea Spray? Are you okay with the minibots going from mini to Ultra/Voyager size?

Onslaught is a weird case, since there's no perfect option. Personally, I'd never display FoC Onslaught as anything other than a torso, the mold is kind of...awkward. And while Ultra Onslaught looks different in the face, he's a big bulky guy with that iconic backpack, and he looks great.

For me, I'd give them:
FoC Deluxe:
70% alone (Take a pick on your favorite deco, the colors are good, but it poses somewhat awkwardly, and lacks that iconic backpack)
90% as Bruticus (points knocked off more for the lack of quality on the set, I really do love it, I just wish Hasbro hadn't dropped the ball there)

Universe Ultra:
85% alone (reasons stated above)

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As for Powerglide and Sea Spray, I think it's great that they got an upgrade. Powerglide's proportions are a bit awkward, but he looks nice and the heart in his chest is just a really nice touch; something they didn't have to do, but it's really endearing.

Universe Ultra Powerglide (Hasbro Red ver.): 85%

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And as for our friend with the gurgling voice, I'd always though Seaspray deserved more than being a minibot back in the early 90s, so I'm glad he got an upgrade. And the Voyager mold is just great, with perfect proportions, the fans, and nice weapons (he's even got flippers!). However, I'm not a huge fan of the color layout (particularly the head). I could have gone for more yellow on the head and legs instead of blue and gray respectively.(I regret to admit I STILL haven't snagged this mold for myself)

Transformers 2010 Sea Spray: 90%

Well, the Combaticons work well as representations of their in-game characters, at least when viewed from the front. Brawl's a bit too small and Vortex's feet are HUGE, but otherwise they work well capturing the aesthetics. Onslaught is probably the worst, being both too short and too skinny, rather than the beefy bruiser he is in-game.

All the WFC/FOC designs work pretty well, but Bumblebee is too large both in height and his massive backpack. Shockwave is a bit too short, but it's not completely damning. The second Optimus figure gets a lot of flack for how small it is, but the first deluxe model from the original Generations wave is tall and looks good leading the 'Bots. Both are very accurate to the in-game depiction of Optimus, save for the scale issue.

The Legends cassettes are fun for a while but after you realize they have no poseability at all, the gimmick wears thin. I also prefer the Deluxe Soundwave to the Voyager.


I see a lot of Classics and Universe figures in there too. Should we include Timelines with this list? Because they pulled off Thrust better than Generations did, and I think everyone loved the BotCon 2006 "Dawn of Future Past" set.

We need an earth mode soundwave and blaster.

The generations one probably set that back a few years, but I feel it's needed.

Not necessarily SW being a casset player, but maybe something like a truck. The cybertronian mode sticks out a bit too much with other earth vehicles.

We need a new classics Shockwave and Scorponok too. I'll be happy if they re-released remolds of their Energon molds with G1-accurate colours.

Generations/Classics figs

Ok, here we go...

Springer - 100% (hands down my favorite figure)
Grimlock - 75%
Blaster - 95%
Soundwave - 95%
Kup - 85% (could have been better with less arm kibble and those shoulder wheels)
RTS Jazz - 100%
Hound - 98% (the missing gun and shoulder cannon dropped it from a solid 100)
RTS Tracks - 100%
Warpath - 100%
Windcharger - 100%
Prowl/Bluestreak/Smokescreen - 85%
Optimus Prime - 80%
Megatron - 75%
Cyclonus - 100%
Scourge - 95%
Blitzwing - 100%
Thunderwing - 90% (could have been bigger)
Starscream/Thundercracker/Skywarp - 100%
Thrust/Ramjet/Dirge - 100%
Straxus - 80%
Galvatron - 50% (worst figure in the line IMHO)
Wheeljack - 90%
Ironhide/Ratchet - 75%
HotSpot - 100%
Inferno/Grapple - 100%
Wreck Gar - 95% (all the arm kibble kills it for me)
Jetfire - 100%
Bumblebee - 90%
Cliffjumper - 75% (the head thing kills me)
Sideswipe - 100%
Sunstreaker - 100%
Mirage - 100%
Blurr - 75%
Astrotrain - 60% (definitely needs to be bigger)
Octane - 50% (needs a bit of a retool and to be made larger)

TK415 wrote:Also, what about Powerglide and Sea Spray? Are you okay with the minibots going from mini to Ultra/Voyager size?

Given the awesomeness of Sea S. P. Ray he is easily forgiven.

Also he's from the HftD subline. So technically a movie toy.

RhA wrote:
Also he's from the HftD subline. So technically a movie toy.

B...But... I display him with my classics figures.



I wouldn't mind if they made a legends Seaspray though.

TK415 wrote:Also, what about Powerglide and Sea Spray? Are you okay with the minibots going from mini to Ultra/Voyager size?

I am not a fan of Powerglide but I do like Sea Spray.

Definitely agree on Astrotrain and Octane. I thought they were ok when I got them because they were at least triple changers but that quickly faded once I put Blitzwing on the shelve next to them. Hopefully they will be remade someday.

Cyber Bishop wrote:Generations/Classics figs

Ok, here we go...
Astrotrain - 60% (definitely needs to be bigger)
Octane - 50% (needs a bit of a retool and to be made larger)

I'm a big fan of the Hound mold. Especially when you spiffy em up with some reprolabel action. They nailed his set outta the park.
With that being said, i think they captured the essence of the character expertly with that mold in both modes.
Nobody ever talks about that mold. It's a gooder.

MGrotusque wrote:I'm a big fan of the Hound mold. Especially when you spiffy em up with some reprolabel action. They nailed his set outta the park.
With that being said, i think they captured the essence of the character expertly with that mold in both modes.

I agree totally. I remember when he first came out an so many seemed not to like him.. I always dug him though.

gavinfuzzy wrote:

RhA wrote:
Also he's from the HftD subline. So technically a movie toy.

B...But... I display him with my classics figures.



I wouldn't mind if they made a legends Seaspray though.

It will be our little secret, okay?

RAcast wrote:Onslaught is a weird case, since there's no perfect option.

For me, I'd give them:
FoC Deluxe:
70% alone (Take a pick on your favorite deco, the colors are good, but it poses somewhat awkwardly, and lacks that iconic backpack)
90% as Bruticus (points knocked off more for the lack of quality on the set, I really do love it, I just wish Hasbro hadn't dropped the ball there)

Universe Ultra:
85% alone (reasons stated above)
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And as for our friend with the gurgling voice, I'd always though Seaspray deserved more than being a minibot back in the early 90s, so I'm glad he got an upgrade. And the Voyager mold is just great, with perfect proportions, the fans, and nice weapons (he's even got flippers!). However, I'm not a huge fan of the color layout (particularly the head). I could have gone for more yellow on the head and legs instead of blue and gray respectively. (I regret to admit I STILL haven't snagged this mold for myself)

Transformers 2010 Sea Spray: 90%

I got his recolor, and I really like the mold, but I still long for that bright turquoise.

Onslaught is tough, both molds are close and have some cool things about them. I liked the breakdown.

Henry921 wrote:
I see a lot of Classics and Universe figures in there too. Should we include Timelines with this list? Because they pulled off Thrust better than Generations did, and I think everyone loved the BotCon 2006 "Dawn of Future Past" set.

Any line goes. Any figure that you want to discuss.

Trailcutter - 95%

I love this guy.. I could not give him a solid 100 due to the lack of his "missile" hand and the lack of making his backpack sit correctly with the silver visor thing pointing forward and the missiles pointing up..

The only way to get the missiles to point upward is to have the silver piece pointing up (for those that have him you get what I am talking about...

I'm coming into this thread a bit late... but I certainly have some opinions!

I think a big thing this thread is lacking... is pictures!

But before that...

Now, the way I understand things from the original post, the original poster said, "The goal of the Generations line seems to be to update the designs of characters that we know of from previous lines." To me, this has certainly been the case when it comes to "Classics" style figures, and how they are as updates of G1 characters. Now, we all know that there is a whole lot of confusion as to what falls into "Classics," or what even to call them as -- technically -- "Classics" would only refer to the short-lived line that came out in 2006.

To me, any toy that can be used as an update of a G1 character, even if it is repurposed from another line, as long as it is from the 2006 Classics toyline or a later toyline, is a "Classics" verson of a character.

So, with that said, how well do different toys work as an update?

We'll start with the leaders.

1. Optimus Prime

Straight off of the card, I'd give it a 90%. Many people are bugged by the arm kibble... and yes, the original Prime didn't have that. Yes, it'd be nice if the weren't there. But they're not the end of the world to me. What does knock the score down is the lack of a trailer. But I only knocked 10% off for that, as I understand that trailers aren't the most practical thing in the modern toy market.

But if we're allowed to include 3rd party add-ons in our scores, if you give Optimus his Fansproject trailer and some Reprolabels, I'd give him 100%!




2. Megatron

I want to be forgiving, as to me a "Classics" style Megatron needs to be a gun and it is obvious that it can't be a realistic type of gun. But that being said, I'm still only giving him a 70%. He'd move up to between 80% - 85% if he had the coloration of the Takara version.




3. Onslaught

There's been some talk in this thread about Onslaught. As far as the FOC figure, I'll admit I don't own it... but I'd give him a 0%. Why is he even being talked about in a thread about toys that are updates of earlier figures? He's not an update of an older Onslaught. He's a new Onslaught.

For updates... well, we have two mold options. There's the Ultra Class Onslaught.




I'd give him an 80%. He looks good. He's a good toy. He has quite a different vehicle mode, but it is still identifiable as Onslaught. He looses some points because, while identifiable, it is significantly different. He also looses points because, well... he's not a combiner torso.

The other mold option would be the torso from the Eneron Bruticus Maximus combiner. Not every version of that mold... The original version of it was a homage to Onslaught, but was a new and unique character. But some of the more recent uses of the mold have been intended to be updated versions of the G1 character. The one I have is the Asian Exclusive version.

Out of the box, I'd give him 80%. Yes, he homages the original version... but not terribly well. Both modes have at best superfluous resemblance to the original. If not for the fact that he was a combiner, I'd have scored him even lower.

But once again, some third party accessories come to the rescue. With those, I'd give this Onslaught a 90%. The vehicle mode becomes perfect! The robot still isn't the best... He could really use a new head sculpt. But he is bulked up and made sufficiently more bad-arse to the point where I do like it better.




(I don't want to get into Bruticus too much, since my version includes two figures that are completely third-party... But I'd give that Bruticus 100%!)

And to even things out, one more Autobot... Well, two, since they use the same mold.

4. & 5. Tracks and Wheeljack

This mold seems to get a lot of hate. Specifically, the use of this one mold to represent these two characters who had different molds in the G1 days. But you know what? I'm going to give them each a 95%... and bump that up to 100% when you add Reprolabels to them.



There's enough remolding to give each one unique details to the vehicle modes, and those mold differences plus differences in the transformation process give each robot their own look, too.



Suppose I'll end there for now.

Old title:
How well did the Generations figure capture/represent/depict the character in their new toy?

New title:
How well did the new figure (Generations or any other line) capture/represent/depict the character in their new toy?

Yotsuyasan, excellent idea about including pictures! Your pictures are awesome. I will try to add some when I get some time. Awesome breakdowns.

Yotsuyasan wrote:I'm coming into this thread a bit late... but I certainly have some opinions!

I think a big thing this thread is lacking... is pictures!

But before that...

Now, the way I understand things from the original post, the original poster said, "The goal of the Generations line seems to be to update the designs of characters that we know of from previous lines." To me, this has certainly been the case when it comes to "Classics" style figures, and how they are as updates of G1 characters. Now, we all know that there is a whole lot of confusion as to what falls into "Classics," or what even to call them as -- technically -- "Classics" would only refer to the short-lived line that came out in 2006.

I changed the title to better reflect the idea of the topic. Sabrblade started a good discussion, some time ago, about what these figures should be called. Many said call them Classics, but Classics seems to me to be trying for G1 accuracy (which I quite enjoy), but Generations is willing to make changes while still being true to the character (which is fun and exciting). It was also questioned why WFC and FOC are being included. The answer is because this topic is not searching for G1 accuracy but for character accuracy. WFC Prime, WFC Megatron, and FOC Blaster are superb re-imaginings that capture the characters extremely well. We are not grading them on G1 accuracy, we are grading them on character representation. It is a subtle difference. A different topic could be how well is the classic update, but this topic is how true to the character is the new figure.

I agree that Classics Megatron is 70-80% Megatron. To me, WFC Megatron is a solid 95-100% Megatron. He looks like Megatron right before he came to G1 Earth. I loved seeing the Transformers’ Cybertronian modes, and always wondered about the ones that weren’t shown. So whether it is IDW Springer, Trailbreaker, or a Cybertronian mode of a figure, they can look different just as long as it is still the same character and it is that character without a doubt.

Ill add some photos to this thread..
Ok some side by side pix of classics/generations Thunderwing next to his G1 counterpart.


Hasbro did a marvelous job in bringing this character back to life for a new age. The colors are nice and let you know exactly who this character is.. However the C/G one is so much smaller and not as imposing as his G1 counterpart. The articulation is superb on the new one as he can get into so many poses where the original is just a block that can move its arms up and down.


They streamelined his back kibble so he is not as "blocky".


Now to the jet modes

The only thing missing from the new one is the smaller robot. And to be honest the original could have been made as a stand alone character with no smaller robot. I know in the marvel comics you never saw his bot mode only pretender shell and to be honest that is all you need.



Combined with his smaller robot the original Thunderwing is pretty long and even with the drone on the newer one he still is no where near as long.







So in a nutshell yeah he is not as large and imposing as his original version but his articulation, accurateness (you look at him and know he is thundering) and menacing look make up for that., this is why I can only give him a 90%. If they remade this version that would be about 2 inches taller he would have been a solid 100% for me.