The Energon Pub

I just had a strange sort of realization today. Sumdac is a very odd last name. There is no logical reason for it. UNLESS...one has been reading a lot of DC comics or even watched Justice League or JLU would eventually figure out something very interesting.

Sumdac = CADMUS backwards. Wierd, no?

I say Kool

There's already a thread for this. I just don't know where it is.

Night Raid wrote:There's already a thread for this. I just don't know where it is.

but I do...

click Sumdac = Cadmus ? for the thread.

Thanks so much.

Hey my last name backwards is Sumlive, not if I have anything to say about it though.

Still I have the question, what the hell is CADMUS?

Liege Evilmus wrote:Still I have the question, what the hell is CADMUS?

Cadums

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Liege Evilmus wrote:Still I have the question, what the hell is CADMUS?

Cadums

You mean the "Evil Organization" at the end of Justice league.

I feel bad for that show, you know they wanted to do something real good, and tell the stories right, but I think they heard they where being canceled and rushed everything quick.

The whole Batman Beyond is Batman's clone deal was pretty stupid to me.

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But on a similar note, that guy Mophir in that one episode kicked ass

Liege Evilmus wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Liege Evilmus wrote:Still I have the question, what the hell is CADMUS?

Cadums

You mean the "Evil Organization" at the end of Justice league.

I feel bad for that show, you know they wanted to do something real good, and tell the stories right, but I think they heard they where being canceled and rushed everything quick.

The whole Batman Beyond is Batman's clone deal was pretty stupid to me.

-----------------------------------------

But on a similar note, that guy Mophir in that one episode kicked ass

Cadmus is a much larger player in the comics.

I didnt mind the Batman beyond clone thing all that much.But that might be because it surprised me a bit.I wasnt expecting them to go the route and I'm very rarely surprised by the plots of most cartoons and tv shows.

I only realy know them through the show.

Again, I can see that the whole deal with them was rushed though. I hate when the better showes get taken off the air to soon.

The whole Batman Beyond deal, I liked that it featured Phantasm, but it was rushed, that story could have been elaborated more. I think working it in as a side bar deal in regular episodes then doing the flash forward would have helped me with it.

But one thing I realy liked about JLU is that it worked in everyone. I was real happy when they even included Static Shock(that was another great show, that ended to soon).

I already mentioned this a while back when Animated came out, but Cadmus goes back a lot further than DC comics. It's ancient Greek mythology.

Go go wikipedia powers... activate!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmus

Some bits of possible relevance to animated "could" include:

By the instructions of Athena, he sowed the Dragon's teeth in the ground, from which there sprang a race of fierce armed men, called Spartes ("sown"). By throwing a stone among them, Cadmus caused them to fall upon one another until only five survived, who assisted him to build the Cadmeia or citadel of Thebes, and became the founders of the noblest families of that city.

Also this

At the wedding, whether celebrated at Samothrace or at Thebes, all the gods were present; Harmonia received as bridal gifts a peplos worked by Athena and a necklace made by Hephaestus. This necklace, commonly referred to as the Necklace of Harmonia, brought misfortune to all who possessed it.

Furthermore, Cadmus is famous for slaying a sacred dragon...

Coincidence? Perhaps... perhaps not. Only time will tell. But I believe the Cadmus name is a mythology reference, not a DC comics ref.

I pulled an essay out of my aft addressing this question and how the myth of the dragon's teeth related to TF:A. It's in the other thread. Should I put a copy of it here?

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Cadmus is a much larger player in the comics.

I didnt mind the Batman beyond clone thing all that much.But that might be because it surprised me a bit.I wasnt expecting them to go the route and I'm very rarely surprised by the plots of most cartoons and tv shows.

I'm amazed they did any Batman Beyond plots at all considering it creates a giant plot hole with the past Batman knowing about the future Batman and the simple fact the series itself was canceled before the crossovers were made.

They allso did a crossover on Static Shock and his future self allso appeared on Justice League but I belive in a slightly different costume.

Saber Prime wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Cadmus is a much larger player in the comics.

I didnt mind the Batman beyond clone thing all that much.But that might be because it surprised me a bit.I wasnt expecting them to go the route and I'm very rarely surprised by the plots of most cartoons and tv shows.

I'm amazed they did any Batman Beyond plots at all considering it creates a giant plot hole with the past Batman knowing about the future Batman

It wasnt all that much of a "plot hole" when you realalise that the "Beyond" future wasnt really the exact future that Batman and the rest of the JLU were heading towards.

The "present" of the JLU was in direct contradiction of the "past" of Batman Beyond.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Cadmus is a much larger player in the comics.

I didnt mind the Batman beyond clone thing all that much.But that might be because it surprised me a bit.I wasnt expecting them to go the route and I'm very rarely surprised by the plots of most cartoons and tv shows.

I'm amazed they did any Batman Beyond plots at all considering it creates a giant plot hole with the past Batman knowing about the future Batman

It wasnt all that much of a "plot hole" when you realalise that the "Beyond" future wasnt really the exact future that Batman and the rest of the JLU were heading towards.

The "present" of the JLU was in direct contradiction of the "past" of Batman Beyond.

Huh?

Saber Prime wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
It wasnt all that much of a "plot hole" when you realalise that the "Beyond" future wasnt really the exact future that Batman and the rest of the JLU were heading towards.

The "present" of the JLU was in direct contradiction of the "past" of Batman Beyond.

Huh?

What dont you understand about what I said????

If it was the last part then let me clear it up a little.......The JLU time line can not be the past of Batman Beyond......unless you want to factor in the excuse of animation error.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
It wasnt all that much of a "plot hole" when you realalise that the "Beyond" future wasnt really the exact future that Batman and the rest of the JLU were heading towards.

The "present" of the JLU was in direct contradiction of the "past" of Batman Beyond.

Huh?

What dont you understand about what I said????

If it was the last part then let me clear it up a little.......The JLU time line can not be the past of Batman Beyond......unless you want to factor in the excuse of animation error.

The whole thing of course I was really drunk when I read this before.

I think you're saying the Batman future scenes shown in the Justice League cartoon is from an alternate future than than the Batman Beyond cartoon that we seen previously.

If not then I'm completly lost.

Saber Prime wrote:The whole thing of course I was really drunk when I read this before.

I think you're saying the Batman future scenes shown in the Justice League cartoon is from an alternate future than than the Batman Beyond cartoon that we seen previously.

If not then I'm completly lost.

No not at all.The Batman Beyond timeline we saw in JLU was the same timeline we saw in the Batman Beyond serries.

But what I'm saying is the the "Batman Beyond timeline" itself can not be the future of the Batman we watched from his solo serries and trew out the JL serries.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:The whole thing of course I was really drunk when I read this before.

I think you're saying the Batman future scenes shown in the Justice League cartoon is from an alternate future than than the Batman Beyond cartoon that we seen previously.

If not then I'm completly lost.

No not at all.The Batman Beyond timeline we saw in JLU was the same timeline we saw in the Batman Beyond serries.

But what I'm saying is the the "Batman Beyond timeline" itself can not be the future of the Batman we watched from his solo serries and threw out the JL series.

So the future for JLU timeline can't match up with Batman Beyond. Might have to do with Cadamus coming down in the JLU timeline (if i remember right)

I was thinking a Nightfire or Starwing type character would take the cape and cowl... or just an eyemask utility belt...

I would have liked to see a 'JLU:Beyond' mini series were the league is reformed in the future. Maybe even feature S-man and Wonderwoman but not necessarily as mainstay members. There's already NightHawk, just add an older Rayner, Impulse, Superboy (legally no?) or even a not so teen titan. The timeline would have been different than JLU's so even dead-in-comic characters could be used.

AxiomScion wrote:So the future for JLU timeline can't match up with Batman Beyond. Might have to do with Cadamus coming down in the JLU timeline (if i remember right)

Possible but not likely.The Batman Beyond's timeline also had a Cadamu in its past.

What cause's the changes wasnt really explored but there are some differences in the timeline of JLU that make it impossible for it to be the past of the Batman Beyond timeline.

AxiomScion wrote:I was thinking a Nightfire or Starwing type character would take the cape and cowl... or just an eyemask utility belt...

What????

AxiomScion wrote:I would have liked to see a 'JLU:Beyond' mini series were the league is reformed in the future. Maybe even feature S-man and Wonderwoman but not necessarily as mainstay members. There's already NightHawk, just add an older Rayner, Impulse, Superboy (legally no?) or even a not so teen titan. The timeline would have been different than JLU's so even dead-in-comic characters could be used.

Not a bad idea but they used "dead-in-comic" characters in the JLU serries already.

I would love it if they would do a JSA [Justice Society of America] cartoon.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

AxiomScion wrote:I was thinking a Nightfire or Starwing type character would take the cape and cowl... or just an eyemask utility belt...

What????

well Nightwing and Starfire have an else world kid and I though she would match up nicely with the Nighthawk character as a dynamically dark duo. Might not be all that friendly with Terry. Oh, and wasn't there a samurai sword guy? he wore white and his blade was molecularly sharp...

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:I would love it if they would do a JSA [Justice Society of America] cartoon.

With Capt Marvel? That would be interesting. They could pick up from his JLU debut.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:The whole thing of course I was really drunk when I read this before.

I think you're saying the Batman future scenes shown in the Justice League cartoon is from an alternate future than than the Batman Beyond cartoon that we seen previously.

If not then I'm completly lost.

No not at all.The Batman Beyond timeline we saw in JLU was the same timeline we saw in the Batman Beyond serries.

But what I'm saying is the the "Batman Beyond timeline" itself can not be the future of the Batman we watched from his solo serries and trew out the JL serries.

Aside from the major plot hole of Bruce meeting his future self, why not?

AxiomScion wrote: well Nightwing and Starfire have an else world kid and I though she would match up nicely with the Nighthawk character as a dynamically dark duo. Might not be all that friendly with Terry. Oh, and wasn't there a samurai sword guy? he wore white and his blade was molecularly sharp...

Now I know who your talking about but their daughter's name was "Nightstar".But that ideas pretty good.

AxiomScion wrote:With Capt Marvel? That would be interesting. They could pick up from his JLU debut.

It would be great.

Saber Prime wrote:Aside from the major plot hole of Bruce meeting his future self, why not?

Well for starters:

We learn in both Batman Beyond the serries and the movie Return of the Joker that soon after Dick Grason [Nightwing] left to work in an other city that Bruce and Barbra had a relationship and that she remained by Bruces side till she quit.

And soon after Dicks leaving Gotham that Tim Drake [Robin] was captured and tortured by the Joker as well as experimented on.

Tim ends up killing the Joker and was forbidden to ever wear the Robin suit again..

Now in the flash back scene Tim appeared to be no more then 12 years old when he killed the Joker.Which matches his aproximate age at the end of the Batman solo serries.Tim stood at about Bruce's lower chest.

Now in the JL serries the Joker is still alive.Which by itself only meens that the JL serries may have happened before the events of Jokers death.

But then you have to factor in the Direct to DVD Batman movies that take place in the same timeline.

In the last one Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman which came out before the start of season 2 of the JL serries......Tim is not only still Robin but he's older in this movie then he was when he killed Joker in the flash back scene in Return of the Joker.Robin is noticably older not only in size, he is now standing as tall as Bruce's sholders but he is also old enough to drive which puts him at around 15 years old at the least.

We also learn that Barbra has left Gotham to go to college and that the "relationship" with Bruce is non exsistent and its more of a one sided crush.

The Joker was also refered to in the JLU serries at least once.

So if the Joker is still alive in JLU then the JLU timeline can not be the past of Batman Beyond.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Now in the flash back scene Tim appeared to be no more then 12 years old

According to Tim's bio for the series he was allready 13 years old when he first started working with Batman allthough addmittidly he does look a bit younger.

http://www.batman-superman.com/batman/index.html

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:In the last one Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman which came out before the start of season 2 of the JL serries......Tim is not only still Robin but he's older in this movie then he was when he killed Joker in the flash back scene in Return of the Joker.Robin is noticably older not only in size, he is now standing as tall as Bruce's sholders but he is also old enough to drive which puts him at around 15 years old at the least.

Again you've gone a year younger than you should. The driveing age is 16.

I have not seen Mystery of the Batwoman but I have seen Return of the Joker and Tim did not kill the Joker in the flash back. He was a little insaine in the flash backs as the Joker decided to take him as a side kick and pumped him full of a special laughing gas. (Had a different effect on him than the Joker's useual gas had.) It was allso never said that he wasn't allowed to be Robin anymore. Tim's future self told Terry that he "retired" from hero work.

We also learn that Barbra has left Gotham to go to college and that the "relationship" with Bruce is non exsistent and its more of a one sided crush.

Sounds preddy spot on with their future selfs. Bruce and Barbra barely speak to eachother in Batman Beyond and when they do interact they seem to despise eachother. (Same as Batman and Nightwing in the past)

So if the Joker is still alive in JLU then the JLU timeline can not be the past of Batman Beyond.

Joker being alive doesn't mean anything. He died at a later date than what you think he did is all.

Another good example of someone who should be dead comming back is Toyman. He died on his first apperance in the Superman series yet he appears on a few episodes of Justice League. I'm sure there are more but he's the only one I can think of right now.

Anyway my point being that the series likes to make you THINK a character is dead when they're really not.

Saber Prime wrote: According to Tim's bio for the series he was allready 13 years old when he first started working with Batman allthough addmittidly he does look a bit younger.http://www.batman-superman.com/batman/index.html

Well I was close Kool site by the way thanks.

Saber Prime wrote:
Again you've gone a year younger than you should. The driveing age is 16.

In the real world yes but we dont know the offical driving age in the cartoons Gotham city.And in the comics Tim Drake got a special drivers lisens at the age of 15.

Saber Prime wrote:
I have not seen Mystery of the Batwoman but I have seen Return of the Joker and Tim did not kill the Joker in the flash back. He was a little insaine in the flash backs as the Joker decided to take him as a side kick and pumped him full of a special laughing gas. (Had a different effect on him than the Joker's useual gas had.) It was allso never said that he wasn't allowed to be Robin anymore. Tim's future self told Terry that he "retired" from hero work.

I'm not sure when the last time you saw Return of the Joker but your memerory is a bit off.

Your right Old Tim did say he retired but it was said that Tim was not allowed to be Robin again.When old Barbra was telling Terry the story she said and I quote:

"Bruce fobaid Tim to be Robin again. He blaimed himself for what happened and swore he never endanger an other young partner."

Old Tim also told Terry that Bruce probrably did him a favor forcing him to quite being Robin.

I cant find any youtube vids of these scenes thou.

As for Tim killing the Joker I guess that open to interpertation.

It was Tims shoving of the Joker into the liquid filed tank that shatered it which lead to the Joker slipping on the water and then he gets electrocuted.

The way I see it thats Tim killing Joker.

And since I know you most likely never knew this let me share it with you.

The original script for the film had Tim shooting Joker in the chest.And as a matter of fact the film was originaly animated and edided with that scrnr in it but do the the parental out cry after the "Columbine High School massacre" the film was significantly re-edited before it was release to tone down the violence.

A good number of scenes were ether droped or altered.

Hers's the origin scene of Jokers death.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v/EUsVwW_g ... A5aU&hl=en

Saber Prime wrote: Sounds preddy spot on with their future selfs. Bruce and Barbra barely speak to eachother in Batman Beyond and when they do interact they seem to despise eachother. (Same as Batman and Nightwing in the past)

The point is in "Beyonds" past Barbra did not leave Bruce till years after and not Before Tim.

Saber Prime wrote:Joker being alive doesn't mean anything. He died at a later date than what you think he did is all.

His death is a matter of fact in the past of "Beyond".Not like all the other times that it was believed that he died in the Batman solo serries....where they said "theres no way he could have survived" but never found a body.In the case of the past of Batman Beyond there was a body and Bruce himself witness his Death.

And again even if he died at a later date then what was reveled in "Beyond" it meens that Beyonds timeline can not be the future of JLU.

If the Joker was killed in Beyond's past when Tim was around 13 but the Joker is still alive in JLU's timeline and Tim is around 16 it meens that both timelines can not match up.

JLU's timeline may still leed to a "Beyond" like future that is very similar but it wont be the same Beyond timeline that we saw in the Batman Beyond serries.

Saber Prime wrote:Another good example of someone who should be dead comming back is Toyman. He died on his first apperance in the Superman series yet he appears on a few episodes of Justice League. I'm sure there are more but he's the only one I can think of right now.

No he not the only one that would think is dead in the serries but people sometimes do survive helicopter explostions in the real world so it wouldnt be a hard thing to believe that Toyman survived..

And they never said that they had proof that he was dead.And theres no reason to believe that it was really him on the helicopter.

Saber Prime wrote:Anyway my point being that the series likes to make you THINK a character is dead when they're really not.

Thats true ....but making me think is what lead me to the conclusion that the JLU timeline can not be the past of Batman Beyond.

Theres too many inconsistent facts.