The Energon Pub

IN Gen One he is always leading from the front... he takes on a super charged Megatron and finally gets killed by Megatron when he should have already finished Megs off.

In the movie he wants the Matrix to be absorbed into his chest, thus killing him, and leaving the rest of the Autobots equipped with their Cybertronian Nerf guns to deal with Megatron. Not a tactically sound plan if you ask me.

In the sequel he gets into hand to hand combat with three of the most powerful Cons there are... and dies...and comes back.... maybe he doesn't fear death... maybe he knows he is robot Jesus... or maybe he suffers from PTSD.... Anyone else think Prime is suicidal?

Torino_Prime wrote:IN Gen One he is always leading from the front... he takes on a super charged Megatron and finally gets killed by Megatron when he should have already finished Megs off.

In the movie he wants the Matrix to be absorbed into his chest, thus killing him, and leaving the rest of the Autobots equipped with their Cybertronian Nerf guns to deal with Megatron. Not a tactically sound plan if you ask me.

In the sequel he gets into hand to hand combat with three of the most powerful Cons there are... and dies...and comes back.... maybe he doesn't fear death... maybe he knows he is robot Jesus... or maybe he suffers from PTSD.... Anyone else think Prime is suicidal?

Well, the problem is a lack of good, sensible writing. They kinda amped it up in the hero department, I'm guessing they've watched a lot of action movies where the lead character takes one for the team in an awesome, nonsensical blaze of glory.

Which works great for cartoons and movies based on cartoons, but it doesn't translate well to the sensible folks.

Prime has no death wish, he just needs to be written better.

The thing is, he's a soldier, and soldiers sign up knowing that there's a good chance they'll end up taking a bullet, and perhaps one meant for a friend. On that aspect, they got Prime right, because he gladly would step in the line of fire for one of his men, but the rest of it does seem to be a bit far reaching, I agree.

But, people do take one for the team, and if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't have the freedoms we do have.

While the writing does seem a bit farfetched, I choose to look at the positives of his heroism, and that of the people willing to do what most of us can't and won't.

A sacrifice is what makes them a hero, and it should be respected.

I agree with your view of heroism.

But Prime is the leader of an intergalatic faction of freedom fighters who more often than not is the only effective combatant on his team. That makes any act of physical courage on his part an unsound strategy. Maybe he should have Wheeljack create some more powerful Autobots to share the burden. If he had more effective troops maybe the damn war would not have lasted four millions years....

Torino_Prime wrote:I agree with your view of heroism.

But Prime is the leader of an intergalatic faction of freedom fighters who more often than not is the only effective combatant on his team. That makes any act of physical courage on his part an unsound strategy. Maybe he should have Wheeljack create some more powerful Autobots to share the burden. If he had more effective troops maybe the damn war would not have lasted four millions years....

But then it wouldn't be a cartoon, which is exactly what it's supposed to be. Live action, animated, it doesn't matter, it's really just a cartoon at heart.

The heroes are supposed to be underdogs, lead by a brave leader who steps up against impossible odds and saves the day.

That's what makes a superhero so super.

Doesn't make it the smartest writing, I'll grant you, but that's what makes it superheroic.

A sure sign you're growing up? When cartoons no longer hold their awesome, wacky power over you. When people start deconstructing them and losing their enjoyment in them, perhaps it's time to stop watching.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, that's not at all my intention, but when people miss the point, it's just beating a dead horse when you have no need to.

Cartoons can be smart, they can be stupid, but they're all supposed to be entertainment and escapism at it's best. If you can't shut off your brain and have a good time for 30 minutes, where the matters of the world don't exist, then you're truly missing the point.

Everyone needs a break now and then.

oh my god... WE HAVE A PERSON THINKING LOGICALLY!!!!!! THIS IS NOT A DRILL!

Seriously though, don't think tooo much into it or-

You're right... I took it too far... I just like the topics with a little more controversy... seems to get more people interacting... and I like that.

I still would love to see a top down revision of TF with a hard sci-fi twist... i don't know enough about physics to pull it off, but I would love to see it

Torino_Prime wrote:You're right... I took it too far... I just like the topics with a little more controversy... seems to get more people interacting... and I like that.

I still would love to see a top down revision of TF with a hard sci-fi twist... i don't know enough about physics to pull it off, but I would love to see it

Oh, you're not the only one to pose questions like this. There's nothing wrong with doing so, but some of the reasoning behind these questions is...questionable. (Lack of a better word.)

It's the internet the only way to get some people to participate is to ignite some controversy...seriously though Prime should have at least not brought the B squad to Earth. Hmmm... really important mission... where's Gears? Bumblebee are you ready to kick some cons? Why not load up the Ark with some bots with some firepower. Really, how important could Prime have thought the mission was, he was probably looking for some unauthorized R&R... come on Huffer let's save Cybertron!!!!

yeah, prime has a penchant for tryin to die.

i always thought when he got the killing shot from megs Roddy should have done the cliche "dive infront of the shot" thing, and left prime to live

That would have been awesome... they spend 20 minutes establishing Hot Rod... and BAM!!! He's dead... he would be the most popular Autobot ever!!! Like Boba in Jedi!! That's hysterical.

Yeah, I also agree that Hot Rod would have achieved near superstar status if he took one for Prime, saving his life.

As for the original point, I don't think he was suicidal, I just think that save for Galaxy Force, Beast Wars, and RoTF, he couldn't fight. He was in a lot of battles in G1 and he won some and lost some, but mostly lost against stronger Decepticons. Except, of course, the '86 movie.

In the comics, which usually have better writing, he got his ass handed to him all the time, except for "Power Play" and "Prime Time" when he tore ass through the entire 'Con army, finishing it off by bitch slapping Shockwave and throwing him into a swamp. But after, in "Afterdeath" which is a prime example (no pun intended LMAO ) of him being suicidal, he actually has a human kill him after Megatron cheats in the video game they play and still gets beat by Optimus. Then he comes back as a Powermaster, only to get gut-shot by Scorponok in "Dark Star" albeit he didn't have Hi-Q for the extra power, but still. Then in "Skin Deep" I believe, he beats up some roided up drone that goes haywire and beats the crap out of Kup and a few others. but his biggest ass-whooping comes in "All Fall Down" when Thunderwing just beats him from one end of the Ark to the other. Granted, T-Wing was jacked up on the Dark Matrix, but still managed to cause Prime to get major TLC afterward. His only shining moment I can think of for the rest of G1 was when he was resurrected by the Last Autobot and returned to attack the Decepticons and -with major help from Grimlock and everyone else- kicked the 'Cons off an alien planet called Klo. Then he proclaimed the end of the war and the return to Cybertron.

But even that wasn't right, because in G2, guess what? Megatron comes back, and stomps the ever-loving crap out of Prime in a matter of moments, culminating in Megatron ripping the Matrix right out of his chest.

Suicidal?

In the end of G1, he sacrificed himself to destroy Unicron, and that's something I can understand. In G2, he sacrificed himself once again to destroy the Swarm, which was understandable as well.

In Masterforce, he got his ass beat just once by Overlord, but other than that he owned the Decepticons most of the time, especially after getting Godbomber.

In Beast Wars, he was a "don't-f**k-with-me" leader and fighter, and the only time he got beat was if he was cheap shot or majorly ganged up on. Or tricked by Megatron.

In Galaxy Force (NOT Cybertron) he was not to be f**ked with either. That was one of my favorite Prime incarnations, where he continually handed the 'Cons their asses on a regular basis.

In the first movie, the only thing he did was beat up Bonecrusher. Megatron handed him his ass at the end until he was saved -yes, saved- by Sam.

In RoTF, though, he owned up to being a leader. At the beginning, I was happy to see him take the can-opener to Demolishor, even though I didn't think he should have executed him. Ironhide should have done that. And the forest fight was just plain wicked, even the ending. Classic Megatron. But I think Prime was portrayed right when he was shown taking on 3 'Cons and kicking their asses. That's what he should be capable of. And, of course, the end of RoTF, he just bitch slapped The Fallen, who was a sorry excuse for an ultimate evil, and also owned Megatron again, who I don't believe was in true form in RoTF. In the first movie he stomped Prime into the asphalt while getting shot by other Autobots as well as the military, but now he couldn't even scratch him? Maybe it was the noodle arms...

Bottom line, Prime isn't suicidal, he just mostly sucks at hand-to-hand combat.

It isn't the fact that he doesn't value life, because he does but mostly for others. He feels that his loss is the sacrifice that must be made to save all life in a dire time of need. He is programed to protect, and because of that nature he is willing to sacrifice him self in honor of protecting everyone involved in the fight.

Yeah, but the problem is that this occur's just about every other fight...

Catalyst Prime wrote:Yeah, but the problem is that this occur's just about every other fight...

If the fate of the world or the fate of someones life that you cared about was in your hands would you fight to the death to protect them? You know optimus, always having a soft spot for humans. x3

Ravenous Nightwind wrote:

Catalyst Prime wrote:Yeah, but the problem is that this occur's just about every other fight...

If the fate of the world or the fate of someones life that you cared about was in your hands would you fight to the death to protect them? You know optimus, always having a soft spot for humans. x3

Yes, I would. But if the situation was happening every other day I'd start making clones of myself or something...

Catalyst Prime wrote:

Ravenous Nightwind wrote:

Catalyst Prime wrote:Yeah, but the problem is that this occur's just about every other fight...

If the fate of the world or the fate of someones life that you cared about was in your hands would you fight to the death to protect them? You know optimus, always having a soft spot for humans. x3

Yes, I would. But if the situation was happening every other day I'd start making clones of myself or something...

Well you know how megatron is, always attacking at sunrise! XDDD

Well, the problem with the writing, whether it's bad or terrific, or realistic or escapist, is that the writing and the constructed story is the reality for the entities who partake in it. There's better and/or worse writing than anything else you want to compare anything to, but the fact is that characters given in a situation are forced to abide by that situation, so we can't fairly judge them outside of that situation. Saying it's just a cartoon states the truth for us, but not for Prime et all. So we have to judge Prime by the standards of PRime's fictional universe.

Based on that, I wouldn't say Primes' suicidal so much as he's forced to die in situations which call for his death. Prime gives it up basically because he's selfless and the hero. That's also the fault of the writing, and it's why Optimus is so formulaic. The writers made Prime what he was, which in turn made Prime responsible to that previously established image.
I don't find Prime suicidal so much as he's just following the lead set by so many mythical characters before him. He throws himself in front of danger so as to safeguard or protect others who may not be able to or are afraid of doing so. Jesus did it in his story and mankind spends the next two thousand years killing to try to establish that story as the right one. Prime does it and he has to share the screen with Shia LeBouf. Even self sacrifice isn't fair.

OK we Prime is not suicidal...
But he is the worst tactician in the universe then...
In most incarnations the Cynertronian War has lasted for eons, or millions of years, etc...
So in his time on command he failed to defeat Megatron, failed to secure logistics for the continuation of combat operations, failed to use the selfishness of Megatron's subordinates to his advantage, failed to even launch one effective attack on the Decepticon forces....
And Prime must be the most vain son of a bitch ever... they can't defeat the new combiner... so my only option is to get into one on one hand to hand combat with this newest most powerful Decepticon ever!!! Only I can defeat it.... Does he ever think "What would happen to the Universe if I died? Who would carry on the fight against the tyrannical Decepticons?"
Really his idea of a successor was Hot Rod. Not one of the many Autobots with leadership experience?!
The only reason the war lasted as long as it has is because Megs is equally inept.

Issue One Volume One of the Marvel Transformers... the first instance of suicidsl Optimus... and who died and made him god? He decides to kill his entire crew in an instant... worst strategist ever!!!

I'm more of the mind that he's victim of the need for Hasbro/TakaraTomy to sell more toys. You know rather than making the new Decepticon fight 5 Autobots to prove how tough they are, why not just beat up Prime to make the new con a badass.

I loved the Animated version for the fact that he wasn't most powerful or most skilled fighter but he still gave as good as he got, he though he looked like crap at the end of the fight. Very much like Optimus Primal.

Most G1 versions of Prime do end up spending a lot of time in the CR Chamber, but that's usually because he is in the tick of the fight, facing the toughest cons (That's when it is well written). I, however, am getting tired of the old Prime gets beat up bad so he has to be taken out of play card. When this plot technique gets used it basically reduces him to the toughness of a rag doll. I guess that's one thing I like about the current Prime in IDW. Yeah, he's out of play, but it is for a very good and different reason.

Now I want to write some fanfic where Prime dishrags the entire Decepticon Army!!! Because after reviewing Season One of Gen One I realized Prime got his ass handed to him more often than not! Prime takes a licking and then another, but keeps on ticking... maybe Ratchet should look into that.

IN Gen One he is always leading from the front... he takes on a super charged Megatron and finally gets killed by Megatron when he should have already finished Megs off.

In the movie he wants the Matrix to be absorbed into his chest, thus killing him, and leaving the rest of the Autobots equipped with their Cybertronian Nerf guns to deal with Megatron. Not a tactically sound plan if you ask me.

In the sequel he gets into hand to hand combat with three of the most powerful Cons there are... and dies...and comes back.... maybe he doesn't fear death... maybe he knows he is robot Jesus... or maybe he suffers from PTSD.... Anyone else think Prime is suicidal?

Megatron must be stopped..... NO matter the cost!!!

Torino_Prime wrote:I agree with your view of heroism.

But Prime is the leader of an intergalatic faction of freedom fighters who more often than not is the only effective combatant on his team. That makes any act of physical courage on his part an unsound strategy. Maybe he should have Wheeljack create some more powerful Autobots to share the burden. If he had more effective troops maybe the damn war would not have lasted four millions years....

A lot of the characters and personaility types tend to be one dimensional.

actually the whole sturrgle between the Autbots and Decepticons is pretty much cliche'
Decepticons =want to rule the Universe as how they see things fit with the constant search of energon to a means to an end.
Autobots= Freedom to choose, protect and value sentient life and defend against the Decepticons.


The Autobots by nature do not have a military background and most are not warriors, A lot of their forms are not really offensive and even if some Autobots are tanks, fighter planes and such they are not really streamlined for destruction and killing like a Decepticon form and are suited more for defensive purposes.


case in point= Aerial Bots VS Seekers
The seekers are fighter jets armed to the teeth and deigned for speed.
the Aerial bots consists of commercial planes, conchords, stunt planes..

After FOUR MILLION years it may be time for the Autobots to adapt to the situation...

as a leader, as a hero, as a warrior, as a guardian,asa sensei master, as a teacher and as a fighter

for a person like optimus prime

one innocent life lost truly is one too many

i believe those few words say quite a lot about optimus prime as a person