Shadowman wrote:KILLTRONBOT 9000 wrote:Besides, I reckon that Smooth should be allowed to say what he likes - isn't that the point about freedom of speech and the Second (?) Amendment?
1. The second amendment is the one that lets you own guns. Saying what you want is the First Amendment.
2. There's a rule that you can't bash other people's beliefs. Christianity = someone's beliefs. Calling it fiction = bashing.
Ok, first, many of us do not live in american so your Amendments don't effect us.
Second, this website is not America. You signed a disclaimer saying that you would agree to the rules of Seibertron.com. Many Americans have this idea about "Freedom of Speech" where they believe that it means that you can say whatever you want and nobody can do anything about it. This is untrue. It means that THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT can not punish you for using the constitutionally protected forms of speech. If you call your boss' daughter a whore, for example, he has the right to fire you and it does not violate your freedom of speech.
Third, there is nothing in the Constitution that says that you can not bash the beliefs of other people. I guarantee it. Just the opposite, in fact. Bashing (or, as I like to say, "disagreeing with") the opinions of other people is what the 1st amendment is all about. It gives you the right to disagree with people, governments, and religious organizations.
Fourth, Atheists are not going to win any arguments as long as many of them take such a combative stance on the issues. It's been my experience that the more "hardcore" atheists have read MUCH more scripture than the average Christian. In many cases, they've read The Bible, The Quaran, The Torah, and dozens of suplimentary volumes on the history of each religion. This has the unfortunate side effect of confusing the ideas with the people who profess to believe them. Your average American, British, Canadian, etc Christian has not read The Bible cover-to-cover. All that terrible stuff that Atheists know everything about is news to most Christians. Interestingly enough, when you show one of these Christians passages that say it's alright to sell your daughter or rape or kill, they NEVER say, "Oh, I didn't know that was in there! I guess it's time to degrade women and kill a bunch of people." They usually just shrug it off by saying they disagree with that, or that said passage isn't literal or something equally harmless.
Yes, there is a mountain of evidence that show that Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc are incorrect. There are unavoidable errors in all three books that completely negate the possibility of their having been written by an all-powerful and all-knowing being. Most people, in the civilized world at least, don't use their religions to hurt other people. Most of them don't even go to religious services. So it really is unfair to dump the failings of thousands of years of religious practice on the doorstep of every single person who claims to be religious.
The old cliche holds true. You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. If you want to convince somebody that their religion is wrong, approach the subject carefully. Many people will take any negative comment about their religion very seriously and become offended and defensive. Give them something to think about. If they are in a position, emotionally and mentally to do so, they will. If not, then they won't. There's nothing more you can do.
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