>
shop.seibertron.com amazon.seibertron.com Facebook Twitter X YouTube Pinterest Instagram Myspace LinkedIn Patreon Podcast RSS
This page runs on affiliate links — your clicks may earn us a few Shanix. Want the full transmission? Roll out to our Affiliate Disclosure.

Kiss Players a.k.a WHY JAPAN WHY!!!!!??

Discuss anything about the Transformers cartoons and comics! You can discuss anything from G1 to Cybertron as well as the comics from Marvel, Dreamwave, IDW and more!

Kiss Players a.k.a WHY JAPAN WHY!!!!!??

Postby JetOptimus23 » Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:58 pm

Motto: "I hecked up"
Weapon: Dirge Gun
WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!
ahem.
If you've ever heard or seen Kiss Players, you know that we shouldn't let Japan even THINK of creating their own franchise. WHY JAPAN??!!
If you don't know what kiss players is, go to www.tfwiki.net and look it up, but I warn you, you may never look at transformers the same way again.
If you DO know what Kiss Players is... I pity you sooo much.
If you actually LIKE it... there is something wrong with your brain.
PROFESSIONAL ARMADA APOLOGIST

Currently on a quest to collect as many Unicron Trilogy toys as possible...maybe even complete the collection...
Image
User avatar
JetOptimus23
Godmaster
Posts: 1740
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:30 am
Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas
Strength: 1
Intelligence: 7
Speed: 1
Endurance: 1
Rank: 1
Courage: 1
Firepower: 1
Skill: 1

Re: Kiss Players a.k.a WHY JAPAN WHY!!!!!??

Postby Convotron » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:03 pm

Motto: "When in doubt, transform and roll out!"
Weapon: Saber Blade
Somehow, I don't think Japan is to blame for Kiss Players. Yuki Oshima is.

As far as "we" "letting" Japan create their own Transformers franchise...ever hear of The Headmasters, Super-God Masterforce, Victory, Zone, and Car Robots(aka Robots In Disguise)? Kiss Players is an anomaly in the history of the Transformers franchises.

I'm no fan of the Kiss Players line except for the Binaltech figures like Autorooper but not the little PVC figures of the Kiss Players characters.

The fiction, yeah, it's weird and the art is even worse for the non-Transformers characters. The Transformers art, though, was good. However, apparently part of the reason for the way the fiction was done and delivered was Yuki Oshima's intent to shock people. Mission accomplished. Why Takara thought this was a good idea is beyond me but I'm not a

TFWiki's write up is fine but I suggest in order to get more information on the line, the following Youtube videos cover its fiction, reviews a few of the figures(Convoy, Autorooper, and Rodimus). The videos are by Zipdisk01, a great reviewer of Transformers. He's not advocating or condemning the Kiss Players franchise, just basically explaining the line and the circumstances of the controversy. I wasn't converted to liking Kiss Players after watching them but now I can at least look at the franchise with an informed opinion.

My thanks go to HK for showing me that a knee-jerk reaction to something I find distasteful isn't the best way to go about things.

Before viewing the videos, please know that due to the nature of the fiction, the information can contain some mature subject matter. No messy details but nonetheless, watch at your own discretion!

Defending the Indefensible part 1

Defending the Indefensible part 2

Defending the Indefensible Kiss Players Part 3: Atari X Autorooper Figures Part 1 of 2

Defending the Indefensible Kiss Players: Part 4.0 Convoy X Melissa

Defending the Indefensible Kiss Players: Part 4.5 Convoy X Melissa

Defending the Indefensible: Seekers Week Special

Defending the Indefensible Part 6: Hot Rodimus and ShaoShao

Defending the Indefensible Part 6.5: Hot Rodimus and ShaoShao

Defending the Indefensible: Grand Finale Part 1: The Climax

Defending the Indefensible: Grand Finale Part 2: The Controversy
Toys for sale, S.H. Figuarts, Revoltech, Robot Damashii, Figma, and more!

Discounts for purchases of 3 items or more! See sales thread for details.


Image

Never forget the Oath Sworn Through Courage!
User avatar
Convotron
City Commander
Posts: 3399
News Credits: 2
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:13 am
Location: Canadia
Strength: 7
Intelligence: 7
Speed: 7
Endurance: 10+
Rank: 7
Courage: 10+
Firepower: 9
Skill: 10

Re: Kiss Players a.k.a WHY JAPAN WHY!!!!!??

Postby cybercat » Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:28 am

Wait? Is Convotron finally realizing my true genius? :P

I'd like to subtitle my response: Hellkitty's Interesting Adventures Into Robot Smut. In under a year I have personally gone from thinking 'ewwwww robots don't have *sex*, that's retarded and gross' to being, I squirm to confess, one of the more prolific TF slash writers. I begin to suspect that pretty soon I will be universally acknowledged as THE slash canon. (Finally, FAME!! Next up, groupies. Then, world domination).

The disturbing part of KP to me is the under-agedness of the girls. I've so gotten over the xeno. I've even (in a bizarre homage) given my slashies tentacular tongues. Because it's funny. Because, let's face it, *sex* is funny. But the pedophilia-implications still unsettle me.

The major critique I have of KP is the stories. As a slash writer (wow, I've gotten disturbingly comfortable admitting this), I have learned that 'da bizness' is really only part of the story. And even though they're not actually having *sex* in KP, it's awfully...ooky. My point being: even the implied semi-het/xeno/pedophilia/non-con is just...shoehorned in. Battle? *slurp* power up. It's entirely unnecessary to the plot, as opposed to several other robot-human collaborations that have shown up in TF canon. They could just as easily power up with a manly handshake and spare the ooky. (And our sanity. And our *eyes*!!!) If you have to perv of TFs, at least make it necessary. The same is true for any sex scene, any movie or novel ever. The plot can happen because of the sex scene or during it, but it needs to be relevant. KP, it's just entirely irrelevant.

HK, but on the plus side? No MPreg.
User avatar
cybercat
Gestalt
Posts: 2039
News Credits: 1
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:33 pm
Location: lost in cyborg theory

Re: Kiss Players a.k.a WHY JAPAN WHY!!!!!??

Postby Convotron » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:13 am

Motto: "When in doubt, transform and roll out!"
Weapon: Saber Blade
hellkitty wrote:Wait? Is Convotron finally realizing my true genius? :P


It's about time, isn't it? ;)

hellkitty wrote:I'd like to subtitle my response: Hellkitty's Interesting Adventures Into Robot Smut. In under a year I have personally gone from thinking 'ewwwww robots don't have *sex*, that's retarded and gross' to being, I squirm to confess, one of the more prolific TF slash writers. I begin to suspect that pretty soon I will be universally acknowledged as THE slash canon. (Finally, FAME!! Next up, groupies. Then, world domination).

The disturbing part of KP to me is the under-agedness of the girls. I've so gotten over the xeno. I've even (in a bizarre homage) given my slashies tentacular tongues. Because it's funny. Because, let's face it, *sex* is funny. But the pedophilia-implications still unsettle me.

The major critique I have of KP is the stories. As a slash writer (wow, I've gotten disturbingly comfortable admitting this), I have learned that 'da bizness' is really only part of the story. And even though they're not actually having *sex* in KP, it's awfully...ooky. My point being: even the implied semi-het/xeno/pedophilia/non-con is just...shoehorned in. Battle? *slurp* power up. It's entirely unnecessary to the plot, as opposed to several other robot-human collaborations that have shown up in TF canon. They could just as easily power up with a manly handshake and spare the ooky. (And our sanity. And our *eyes*!!!) If you have to perv of TFs, at least make it necessary. The same is true for any sex scene, any movie or novel ever. The plot can happen because of the sex scene or during it, but it needs to be relevant. KP, it's just entirely irrelevant.

HK, but on the plus side? No MPreg.


I definitely agree here. I've heard on more than one occasion that "the characters are 18" or something to that effect. The only problem is that one can say that all they want, it doesn't change the appearance of pre-pubescence of the characters. That's my issue with the art direction. The execution of the art for the Transformers/robots, as I wrote earlier, is actually pretty good in my opinion.

It's definitely not the "eww, Transformers/robots don't have sex!" factor, it's the "Why the heck are these young looking characters kissing Transformers and why are they shown in various states of near undress with flustered expressions?".

As HK said, the plot mechanism of "da bizness" is just one fraction of the story and it's not necessary. Really, when you look at the Kiss Players concept of temporary enhancement/power boost of Transformers characters, it's no different than the standard manga/anime concept of human/non-human team ups.

A recent example of popular anime that uses this concept is Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann with the "Spiral Energy" possessed by characters. Cyborg Guy of The King of Braves GaoGaiGar uses this concept combined with the Hot Blooded hero concept when he pulls through impossible situations when piloting GaoGaiGar thanks to him being a "hero"/yusha.

There are so many other ways to implement this "power up" mechanism in the story and it's not necessary to make it "shocking" to garner attention or to help it stand out. The actual meat and bones of the Kiss Players plot is decent as far as I understand. The controversial details of the female characters detracts from what is otherwise a serviceable story.

The problem is that it's just there to shock. The author supposedly admitted to that as a part of the reason for the idea of Kiss Players. Again, I don't know why Takara thought this would be a good thing. I don't think that this type of fiction is popular/mainstream anywhere so how would this make for good sales? There was a lot of negative reaction to Kiss Players in Japan and that's the intended market for the line.
Toys for sale, S.H. Figuarts, Revoltech, Robot Damashii, Figma, and more!

Discounts for purchases of 3 items or more! See sales thread for details.


Image

Never forget the Oath Sworn Through Courage!
User avatar
Convotron
City Commander
Posts: 3399
News Credits: 2
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:13 am
Location: Canadia
Strength: 7
Intelligence: 7
Speed: 7
Endurance: 10+
Rank: 7
Courage: 10+
Firepower: 9
Skill: 10

Re: Kiss Players a.k.a WHY JAPAN WHY!!!!!??

Postby Razorclaw0000 » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:16 am

Motto: "Know that I am Razorclaw, that my reality is not yours, and while I share Tigerhawk's dual Spark and Vok heritage...
I am NOT he!"
Weapon: Ion Particle Blaster
The best thing to come out of KISS Players is Glit, who was repurposed as Shattered Glass Ravage.

Which is awesome!
User avatar
Razorclaw0000
Gestalt
Posts: 2864
News Credits: 609
Joined: Tue May 06, 2003 1:00 pm
Location: Ashley, PA
Buy from Razorclaw0000 on eBay
Strength: 8
Intelligence: 10+
Speed: 8
Endurance: 7
Rank: 7
Courage: 8
Firepower: 10
Skill: 9

Re: Kiss Players a.k.a WHY JAPAN WHY!!!!!??

Postby Sabrblade » Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:06 pm

Motto: "Can't do a job halfway. What's worth doing is worth doing well, I say."
Weapon: Saber Blade
Kiss Players is not only know for it's pervert appearance and ideas, but its story completely messed with the G1 continuity.

It claims that RiD Fort Max inspired the creation of G1 Fort Max, that G1 Galvatron crashed on Earth before crashing on Thrull, and a whole bunch of other nonsense.
"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
User avatar
Sabrblade
God Of Transformers
Posts: 39811
News Credits: 456
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:22 pm
Location: Tampa, FL
Strength: 7
Intelligence: 10
Speed: 7
Endurance: 8
Rank: 9
Courage: 8
Firepower: 7
Skill: 9

Re: Kiss Players a.k.a WHY JAPAN WHY!!!!!??

Postby JetOptimus23 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:50 pm

Motto: "I hecked up"
Weapon: Dirge Gun
Speaking of Galvy, what about the Leigons?
You cannot deny that their tounges are... phallic... and the scene with Atari and that Legion... was very disturbing...
okay, i was wrong... Japan should touch the fiction, because it's essential, but NEVER EVER EVER EEEEEVER let Yuki touch the fiction EVER AGAIN!
Also,there's that thing in Superlink, where Mirage was gay. uggh.
PROFESSIONAL ARMADA APOLOGIST

Currently on a quest to collect as many Unicron Trilogy toys as possible...maybe even complete the collection...
Image
User avatar
JetOptimus23
Godmaster
Posts: 1740
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:30 am
Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas
Strength: 1
Intelligence: 7
Speed: 1
Endurance: 1
Rank: 1
Courage: 1
Firepower: 1
Skill: 1

Re: Kiss Players a.k.a WHY JAPAN WHY!!!!!??

Postby Convotron » Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:35 pm

Motto: "When in doubt, transform and roll out!"
Weapon: Saber Blade
I don't really mind the continuity issues in Kiss Players because I consider the American and Japanese lines of fiction separate for the most part. What's made in Japan, with respect to fiction, stays in Japan. Besides, KP stems from Binaltech Asterisk, which is an spin off of Binaltech, which did some weird things as well. KP's manga takes place during a time that exists strictly in the Japanese continuity as far as I know.
Toys for sale, S.H. Figuarts, Revoltech, Robot Damashii, Figma, and more!

Discounts for purchases of 3 items or more! See sales thread for details.


Image

Never forget the Oath Sworn Through Courage!
User avatar
Convotron
City Commander
Posts: 3399
News Credits: 2
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:13 am
Location: Canadia
Strength: 7
Intelligence: 7
Speed: 7
Endurance: 10+
Rank: 7
Courage: 10+
Firepower: 9
Skill: 10

Re: Kiss Players a.k.a WHY JAPAN WHY!!!!!??

Postby Editor » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:05 pm

Motto: ""I'm not even supposed to be here today!""
Weapon: Shotgun
Honestly Kiss Players is a very small section of Transformers lore, and was never designed for our fragile western sensibilities.

It comes down to the most simple of consumer doctrine. Don't like it? Don't buy it. Ignoring KP isn't going to effect you and your personal canon for TF's, Including it if you don't like it is. Other sections of TF's that Japan has offered is much greater in scope and get much less attention so seriously, if it bugs you, don't waste brain cells worrying about them.

Does the Manga appeal to me? no
Do the toys appeal to me? no but the Rodimus and the BA Red Alert were pretty nifty.

Japanese culture is different from North America and Western Europe (where I would gather most of us are) Not all of it is easy to explain, and thou some of the nastier sides of Japanese pop culture has trickled past it's shores, it is not their responsibility to cater to our interests, nor is it to police such interests. If you like the stuff great, but if you have a problem with it, the problem is not with Takara as the producer of the toys, or even Yuki Oshima for drawing the comics. The problem is your personal taste. A problem easily solved by just not worrying about it.

For the record, I have no KP items in my collection. It has nothing to do with my feelings for or against KP, It's just I didn't have the extra funds available at the time they were available so I didn't look at the only thing that truly matters in collecting TF's, Is it a cool toy, and do you want it in your collection?
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar/team_view.php?id=27919
Once I ran an Anime festival with over 6,000 attendees. Now... not so much.
User avatar
Editor
City Commander
Posts: 3572
News Credits: 9
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 2:18 am
Location: Vancouver, Cascadia
Watch Editor on YouTube
Buy from Editor on eBay
Strength: 6
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 7
Endurance: 8
Rank: ???
Courage: 7
Firepower: 4
Skill: 6

Re: Kiss Players a.k.a WHY JAPAN WHY!!!!!??

Postby Convotron » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:29 pm

Motto: "When in doubt, transform and roll out!"
Weapon: Saber Blade
Editor wrote:If you like the stuff great, but if you have a problem with it, the problem is not with Takara as the producer of the toys, or even Yuki Oshima for drawing the comics. The problem is your personal taste.


I know that it isn't directed to me but I have to disagree somewhat because my problem with Kiss Players is that it's simply a poorly conceived and executed product. Taking a franchise like Transformers, that has mass appeal as a toy, and combining it with hentai elements is like introducing BDSM into GI Joe. It makes no sense if one wants to sell a lot of a product and therefore make a profit. Not only is KP aimed at a relatively narrow market of "collectors", it's aimed for an even more narrow market of "people who don't mind this kind of content".

Adult material in Japanese pop culture has isn't mainstream, it's just as taboo in Japan as anywhere else. There's fanservice but not the heavily implied sexuality involving very youthful appearing characters that is in KP.

Yuki Oshima did as much as he could under Japanese laws without getting in trouble. Whether it was Takara's specific request or Yuki Oshima being allowed to do whatever he wanted, it's not a common thing and honestly, if the female characters didn't look so young, there wouldn't be as much, if any, controversy.

The decision to depict such young looking characters was to push buttons(I can't imagine it having mass appeal) and it did just that. I don't know it for a fact but the Youtuber who shot the "Defending the Indefensible" videos said that there was negative reaction to Kiss Players in Japan so it wasn't like people in Japan who know of KP were like "Oh, that's no big deal.".
Toys for sale, S.H. Figuarts, Revoltech, Robot Damashii, Figma, and more!

Discounts for purchases of 3 items or more! See sales thread for details.


Image

Never forget the Oath Sworn Through Courage!
User avatar
Convotron
City Commander
Posts: 3399
News Credits: 2
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:13 am
Location: Canadia
Strength: 7
Intelligence: 7
Speed: 7
Endurance: 10+
Rank: 7
Courage: 10+
Firepower: 9
Skill: 10

Re: Kiss Players a.k.a WHY JAPAN WHY!!!!!??

Postby Editor » Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:11 am

Motto: ""I'm not even supposed to be here today!""
Weapon: Shotgun
There is no question that the idea is in poor taste, and of course the pairing of Transformers with the 'Hentai' aspects of KP is only going to find limited appeal, but the fact remains the toys still sold.

As for adult material in Japan, it is completely different there. Here if you saw somebody get on a bus and start reading an issue of Playboy there would be a negative reaction from the other riders, Heck i've got bad looks for just reading a regular comic. However in Downtown Tokyo where it is common for many people to read manga in transit and yes, that includes poeple reading things that are worse than Kiss Players.

As far as the issue of how old the girls appear and the appeal of it. It does have appeal in Japan, (I don't understand it ether it is just there) remember this is a country that has embraced cute things all over, to the point almost every City, Prefecture, Police Detachment, and Major Corporations feel the need to adopt cute mascots (whether anthropomorphism, moe girls or singing objects) to a degree that would stagger people who have never looked into the concepts of current japanese life. Sadly in all things this does go to far, To quote Hayao Miyazaki (The man responsible for numerous brilliant animated feature films), stated "It's difficult. They immediately become the subjects of lolicon fetishism. In a sense, if we want to depict someone who is affirmative to us, we have no choice but to make them as lovely as possible. But now, there are too many people who shamelessly depict (such heroines) as if they just want (such girls) as pets, and things are escalating more and more."

Kiss Players is not a random occurrence, it was an attempt to cash in on a perceived trend. And seeing that the line (both as story and toys) had it's full run (as Takara could have pulled the plug at any time) it filled it's purpose, and lets all hope that they don't feel the need to do more.

Again for the record, I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone, nor am I defending KP as a part of TF lore. The toys were fine, the storyline wasn't. It wouldn't sell in North America, and it is guaranteed to have had a public backlash here, if Hasbro was to release it as is, but in Japan it is what it is, Business as usual. A fact that can be seen (sadly) in a number of presentations that have come from Japan over the years.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar/team_view.php?id=27919
Once I ran an Anime festival with over 6,000 attendees. Now... not so much.
User avatar
Editor
City Commander
Posts: 3572
News Credits: 9
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 2:18 am
Location: Vancouver, Cascadia
Watch Editor on YouTube
Buy from Editor on eBay
Strength: 6
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 7
Endurance: 8
Rank: ???
Courage: 7
Firepower: 4
Skill: 6

Re: Kiss Players a.k.a WHY JAPAN WHY!!!!!??

Postby Counterpunch » Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:11 am

Motto: "Everything I do is divinely sanctioned."
Weapon: Jawbreaker Cannon
The toys are actually quite good. Rodimus and Autotrooper are anyway...the Convoy mold is garbage, but that's beside the point.

I have the manga in digital form. I can make it available for people to judge themselves, but only if I know for certain you're over 18. Don't PM me though, just reply here that you're interested and I'll get around to making a copy available. I don't think it will be a rights violation because this stuff was available with the figures and not really available elsewhere, though there was a very limited print run, of which, I'm not sure it was official anyway.

As for the girl figurines, Atari and Melissa are pretty degrading to women. I collect PvC figures and it's not the scantily clothing that they have, it's the 'omg plz no aRpe' poses. Shayo Shayo is a really cool figurine. I will defend her to the death.

Basically, KP was just a perverted extension of the Astrisk line.

Too much is made of all this anyway. I always thought the point of the absurd and perverse KP manga was that it was simply too far gone to be taken seriously. Essentially, it's the Transformers version of 'The Aristocrats'. (Wiki 'The Aristocrats', then youtube 'Sarah Silverman Aristocrats')
Image
User avatar
Counterpunch
Podcast Host
Posts: 11360
News Credits: 127
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 10:56 pm
Strength: 6
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 6
Endurance: 5
Rank: 9
Courage: 9
Firepower: 4
Skill: 7

Re: Kiss Players a.k.a WHY JAPAN WHY!!!!!??

Postby Convotron » Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:21 am

Motto: "When in doubt, transform and roll out!"
Weapon: Saber Blade
KP is as valid as any official part of the Transformers franchise. That shouldn't be in question. It doesn't need defending or justification if one takes the time to educate themselves on the franchise. It is what it is. Ultimately, my view is that KP is beyond poor taste, it's simply a poor business endeavour. I'm certain that had KP been made a strictly "cute female mascot/sidekick" line, it would have done much better and still remained in the collector market as TakaraTomy wanted.

It's true that KP sold but only enough for the line to produce a few figures, two of which are retools/redecos of BT/Alternators figures.

I simply can't be in agreement that the issue of aversion or distaste lies with the personal taste of people who take issue with Kiss Players because the concept is inherently "shocking" and meant to not be in good taste. It's true that it's not a random occurrence, which means there's nothing accidental or innocent about it. It's a deliberately designed product that is intended to make people take notice, one way or another. No such thing as bad publicity, I suppose.

I do understand the cuteness aspect of Japanese pop culture and that would be totally applicable to Kiss Players if it wasn't the combination of the "cute" female characters put into undoubtedly sexualized situations along with implied hentai conventions such as tongue-tentacles. There's no ambiguity to it, which separates this from something that is more "cuteness gone astray".

It's like having a near nude person walking down the street. They may have strategically placed clothing to just cover up the areas on the body to avoid breaking the law but it doesn't mean they can pull out the "But I'm not naked!" card and expect people to just nod and go about their business. People are going to stare and make comments or yell "Put some clothes on, you freak!". KP does something similar in that it skirts going into the forbidden zone but it's so darn close, it makes people take pause and understandably object or have negative reaction. Simply saying the characters are of legal age and barely avoiding nudity doesn't make a significant difference because the imagery speaks for itself. There is something in the fiction, which I won't mention here but can be heard spoken of in the final 2 videos of "Defending the Indefensible", which strongly implies a sexually related concept.

Yuki Oshima has been reported saying that he wanted to make KP shocking. My only sources are a Youtuber and TFWiki's source:

Yūki Ōshima profile board from "KAIYODO and OTAKU culture" exhibition in Taipei, Novermber 17, 2007 to February 17, 2008

Why I keep harping on this bit of Yuki Oshima stating the intent of KP is that it essentially puts KP outside of the "Oh, but you misunderstand the story." or "But this kind of thing is accepted on some public level in Japan." realm. If KP's creative direction was anything close to being accepted on a common scale in Japan, Oshima wouldn't have said his intent was to make it "shocking".

My feelings on KP have come to a point where I understand the intent of TakaraTomy to go for the collector market but I still don't understand how anyone can think the specific type of art direction would tap into a trend that would pay off. KP is not lolicon but it's right on the line, intentionally.

I personally don't think there's a lot, if any, room in official Transformers products for overly sexual content. Whether it's Kiss Players or a bikini clad model draped over a Transformers character, they both make me ask "What does this have to do with anything Transformers?". It's not to do with morals or or aversion to sexuality or anything of the sort. I just don't see how such content is a good fit for a product that is mainly a toy marketed to the masses throughout the world.

Even in the collector realm, how many people think "All I need now to improve my Transformers collection is some sexy characters."? There are many other products out there that combine sexuality with mecha and they do a much better job at that niche than Transformers ever could. Maybe TakaraTomy wanted to break into that part of the market but they should have gone with something more conventional and started with simple fanservice.
Toys for sale, S.H. Figuarts, Revoltech, Robot Damashii, Figma, and more!

Discounts for purchases of 3 items or more! See sales thread for details.


Image

Never forget the Oath Sworn Through Courage!
User avatar
Convotron
City Commander
Posts: 3399
News Credits: 2
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:13 am
Location: Canadia
Strength: 7
Intelligence: 7
Speed: 7
Endurance: 10+
Rank: 7
Courage: 10+
Firepower: 9
Skill: 10

Re: Kiss Players a.k.a WHY JAPAN WHY!!!!!??

Postby Dead Metal » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:25 am

Motto: "Don't do drugs, beer's cheaper anyway!"
I wouldn't mind owning the manga as I did start reading descriptions of it beside the described pages but that site just stopped doing it.
I just think it's totally scary and hilariously bad and disgusting each page is filled with "OMDG have mercy on my eyes and soul!"

I'm sure if it where available as an anime me and my mates would have a field day watching it in a dark room filled with bad air eating unhealthy snacks and drinking stuff. Kinda like when we watch stuff like Hellsing or so simply for the lulz factor.

I also believe that idw should so translate and print it in a complete TPB and people should buy and own it simply for the fact of it being so so so weird?
Image


Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?

Blurrz wrote:10/10

Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
User avatar
Dead Metal
God Of Transformers
Posts: 13933
News Credits: 767
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 6:18 am

Re: Kiss Players a.k.a WHY JAPAN WHY!!!!!??

Postby cybercat » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:31 am

Proving once again that I think about this way too much...

Being a female, I'm a little tired of 'fanservice', myself. I mean, sorry, guys, but I just don't really need to see animated joogly novelty-sized funbags. Ever. Robot stories or any place else. They do nothing for me. I've got my own (alas, not economy sized), thanks.

Now, I'm not saying (O dear GOD no!!) that we should have an alterna-fanservice involving robots and *guys* in skimpy outfits and suspiciously inhumanly large bulges. (I apologize for even putting that image in your brain). I just wonder about...the whole point.

Now, before you start beating me with the hypocrisy stick, I'm differentiating between fanservice (mindless stuffing of overstuffed females into stories out of a belief that men are morons who will watch a show or read a series if they get enough jiggly stuff) and het/xeno slash. (One is baaaaad, one is *good*. Tres simple, non?) At least in het/xeno, there's a purpose. Fanservice is trying to coopt sexy to tell a story generally entirely unrelated to the sexy. Het/xeno is all about the sexy. One fits, the other doesn't. Both are...I daresay...appealing to different audiences. (I'm not going to look down on any guy who likes Cutey Honey, for example).

The other issue that I have with KP is the non-con part. I kind of mentioned it earlier: I've already griped about the underagey-ness of the girls, but I'm also pretty turned off by the fear/horror that is their general expression. I mean, I suppose technically a giant robot would definitely be able to force himself on a nubile teenaged girl, yeah, I get that. I just don't find that...entertaining. At all. It's underage AND rape. NOT cool. I am more than a little disturbed by the kind of person who would get off on that in a larger sense--like, why does this appeal to this person? Is this how they think women should react to sexual advances? If so, why?

Now, regular consensual het/xeno, totally different story. Totally different fantasy by a totally different player. Almost all of the consensual het/xeno stuff I've read has been written by women, not guys. Kind of makes you think, doesn't it? Happy robots, happy women--who could object to that? Other than, say, sane people? Now, the question is, why do women have *that* fantasy?

HK, not...entirely sane.
User avatar
cybercat
Gestalt
Posts: 2039
News Credits: 1
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:33 pm
Location: lost in cyborg theory

Re: Kiss Players a.k.a WHY JAPAN WHY!!!!!??

Postby Convotron » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:46 am

Motto: "When in doubt, transform and roll out!"
Weapon: Saber Blade
I'm not a fan of fanservice either. I understand its general purpose but it's silly to me. It's often dragged out too. The first time it happens, it's like, "Ahaha! She's got bewbs!". When it happens for the 20th time, it gets old. I mean, there's fully dedicated adult material for that kind of experience.

When it comes to Kiss Players, the sexualized aspect isn't there to serve the story, which is a largely typical sci-fi story, it's there to grab attention. The shame of it is that this aspect of the product takes attention away from the decent toyline and the story itself, which isn't terrible.
Toys for sale, S.H. Figuarts, Revoltech, Robot Damashii, Figma, and more!

Discounts for purchases of 3 items or more! See sales thread for details.


Image

Never forget the Oath Sworn Through Courage!
User avatar
Convotron
City Commander
Posts: 3399
News Credits: 2
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:13 am
Location: Canadia
Strength: 7
Intelligence: 7
Speed: 7
Endurance: 10+
Rank: 7
Courage: 10+
Firepower: 9
Skill: 10

Re: Kiss Players a.k.a WHY JAPAN WHY!!!!!??

Postby Counterpunch » Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:01 pm

Motto: "Everything I do is divinely sanctioned."
Weapon: Jawbreaker Cannon
I <3 fanservice. Why lie?

That being said, if someone takes the sexualization shown in the KP manga to be actually arousing, then they're probably in some dark place sexually anyway.

The sexualization is so over the top...

-Legion's 20ft long penis tounge
-One girl forcefully kissing another little girl and then biting her tounge to get a taste of her?
-That same girl eating flowers, then kissing the other girl in order to put the flowers into her mouth?
-Atari walking around with her panties at her ankles?
-Countless inferred rape scenes

It has to be for shock value, it has to be for dark-humor, and it has to be for a mocking of manga/anime stereotypes, because if it isn't...then there's no justification.
Image
User avatar
Counterpunch
Podcast Host
Posts: 11360
News Credits: 127
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 10:56 pm
Strength: 6
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 6
Endurance: 5
Rank: 9
Courage: 9
Firepower: 4
Skill: 7

Re: Kiss Players a.k.a WHY JAPAN WHY!!!!!??

Postby cybercat » Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:06 pm

Counterpunch wrote:I <3 fanservice. Why lie?


You are a perv. :P (Says the woman who writes slash).

-Atari walking around with her panties at her ankles?


Well, we've all had our eyes *ASSAULTED* by Leo Spitz in the same basic sitch (OMG, do you think this is where Orci/Kurtzman got the idea/?!?) I can't really get as irate about this as I should.

Actually, this one I didn't mind so much. Wasn't she like possessed by Starscream at this point? This one was pervy/funny, not pervy/disturbing to me.

HK, I think...I've just admitted I know a bit too much about this....
User avatar
cybercat
Gestalt
Posts: 2039
News Credits: 1
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:33 pm
Location: lost in cyborg theory

Re: Kiss Players a.k.a WHY JAPAN WHY!!!!!??

Postby Editor » Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:32 pm

Motto: ""I'm not even supposed to be here today!""
Weapon: Shotgun
Admittedly, Atariscream is just a riot. Completely wrong, but a riot regardless.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar/team_view.php?id=27919
Once I ran an Anime festival with over 6,000 attendees. Now... not so much.
User avatar
Editor
City Commander
Posts: 3572
News Credits: 9
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 2:18 am
Location: Vancouver, Cascadia
Watch Editor on YouTube
Buy from Editor on eBay
Strength: 6
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 7
Endurance: 8
Rank: ???
Courage: 7
Firepower: 4
Skill: 6

Re: Kiss Players a.k.a WHY JAPAN WHY!!!!!??

Postby Dead Metal » Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:29 pm

Motto: "Don't do drugs, beer's cheaper anyway!"
Editor wrote:Admittedly, Atariscream is just a riot. Completely wrong, but a riot regardless.

I think the Prime "must tell Marisa to stop eating candy cos she's getting fat and I don't like fat chicks" during a battle is pretty hilarious.

Hem hem I would really like to read the manga, I wish I could read the manga hem hem.

I do hope nobody finds KP just the slightest arousing, but judging by stuff I find online, I think there are people that have a happy time while reading/looking at it..... :?
Image


Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?

Blurrz wrote:10/10

Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
User avatar
Dead Metal
God Of Transformers
Posts: 13933
News Credits: 767
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 6:18 am


Return to Transformers Cartoons and Comics Forum


[ Incoming message. Source unknown. ] No Signal - Please Stand By [ Click to attempt signal recovery... ]


Transformers and More @ The Seibertron Store

Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Mega Axe Attack OPTIMUS PRIME Transformers Cyberverse Adventures Warrior 2021"
Mega Axe Attack OP ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "1 Step Changer BUMBLEBEE Transformers Cyberverse Hasbro 2018 NEW Ages 6+"
1 Step Changer BUM ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "STARSCREAM DEMOLITION DESTROYER Transformers Cyberverse Power Spark Armor Battle"
STARSCREAM DEMOLIT ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "1 Step Changer BUMBLEBEE Transformers Cyberverse Hasbro 2018 250305"
1 Step Changer BUM ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "BUMBLEBEE Transformers Cyberverse Tiny Turbo Changers Series 2 Hasbro 2019 New"
BUMBLEBEE Transfor ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Rescan OPTIMUS PRIME Transformers Rescue Bots Academy Playskool Racing Truck New"
Rescan OPTIMUS PRI ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "STING SHOT BUMBLEBEE Transformers Cyberverse 1-Step Changer Hasbro 2019 New"
STING SHOT BUMBLEB ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "JETFIRE Transformers Cyberverse Tiny Turbo Changers Series 1 2019 Hasbro 250111"
JETFIRE Transforme ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "QUINTESSON INVASION Transformers Cyberverse Battle Cybertron Shockwave+Prowl NEW"
QUINTESSON INVASIO ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Transformers Legacy Evolution SHADOW STRIKER Deluxe Class Cyberverse Hasbro 2023"
Transformers Legac ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "SHARKTICON (ORANGE) Transformers Battle Cybertron Cyberverse Tiny Turbo Changer"
SHARKTICON (ORANGE ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Nintendo Wii TRANSFORMERS PRIME Game + Manual + Remote + Nunchuck 2012 250228A"
Nintendo Wii TRANS ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "ARCEE Transformers Cyberverse Adventures Deluxe Class Hasbro 2020 New 230731"
ARCEE Transformers ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "JAZZ Transformers Cyberverse Tiny Turbo Changers Series 2 2019 Hasbro New"
JAZZ Transformers ...
These are affiliate links. We may earn a commission.
Details subject to change. See listing for latest price and availability.

Featured Products on Amazon.com

Buy "Transformers Authentics Grimlock Action Figure" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Toys Optimus Prime Cyberverse Ultimate Class Action Figure - Repeatable Matrix Mega Shot Action Attack Move - Toys for Kids 6 & Up, 11.5"" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Generations Power of The Primes Leader Evolution Optimus Prime" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Power of The Primes Voyager Class Elita-1" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Titans Return Deluxe Twin Twist and Flameout" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Generations Power of The Primes Solus Prime Prime Master" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Generations Power of The Primes Quintus Prime Prime Master" on AMAZON
Buy "Cyberverse Warrior Class Megatron" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Legends Class Shockwave Figure" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Beast Hunters Legion Class Smokescreen Stealth Fighter Figure" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: The Last Knight Premier Edition Deluxe Barricade" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Titans Return Titan Master Skytread" on AMAZON
These are affiliate links. We may earn a commission.
Details subject to change. See listing for latest price and availability.