The Energon Pub

[Kurona]

I really, really love the 1986 movie and am really put off by things that tamper with it.

In particular, what we had the last two episodes seemed like pure S1-2 fan drivel, in that:

- Rodimus is depicted as cowardly and incompetent. I could buy him not being the MOST competent but that's because he's a creative thinker.

- They go out of their way to suggest Megatron has never killed Starscream. And while I like this Megatron, do you know why I like him?

Because he's basically S3 Galvatron, written at a higher functioning level.

I dislike the otherwise pretty good Titans Return/Combiner Wars toys and IDW line's attempts to distance Megatron and Galvatron. For me, Megatron becoming Galvatron is one of the best and most imagination titillating concepts in Transformers. I especially love that it requires the sacrifice of a classic character to get there because it suggests that a Transformer can become someone else at the expense of their old identity. I would much prefer to see a continuity where Galvatron becomes Megatron again than see Galvatron and Megatron as separate characters or a mature continuity like this where it seems like no version of the '86 movie happened, aside from a character assassination of Rodimus.

Not a fan of Galvatron being a separate character who coexists with Megatron, in general. I like Megatron here but mostly because he seems like he's being written as, shall we say, Galvatron on Prozac. And it feels to me like a lot of what they're going for here is an attempt to unwrite the '86 movie while pushing other aspects of G1.

But this is a new continuity. The 1986 Movie isn't a part of it's continuity.

[o.supreme]

I really, really love the 1986 movie and am really put off by things that tamper with it.

RR-The 1986 TF:TM will be forever safe, nothing can change/tamper with it. This CW series is something completely separate. It is not the original animated series, it is not The marvel Comics, heck it isn't even IDW, though it draws some characters and obviously inspiration from it.

[Sabrblade]

I really, really love the 1986 movie and am really put off by things that tamper with it.

In particular, what we had the last two episodes seemed like pure S1-2 fan drivel, in that:

- Rodimus is depicted as cowardly and incompetent. I could buy him not being the MOST competent but that's because he's a creative thinker.

- They go out of their way to suggest Megatron has never killed Starscream. And while I like this Megatron, do you know why I like him?

Because he's basically S3 Galvatron, written at a higher functioning level.

I dislike the otherwise pretty good Titans Return/Combiner Wars toys and IDW line's attempts to distance Megatron and Galvatron. For me, Megatron becoming Galvatron is one of the best and most imagination titillating concepts in Transformers. I especially love that it requires the sacrifice of a classic character to get there because it suggests that a Transformer can become someone else at the expense of their old identity. I would much prefer to see a continuity where Galvatron becomes Megatron again than see Galvatron and Megatron as separate characters or a mature continuity like this where it seems like no version of the '86 movie happened, aside from a character assassination of Rodimus.

Not a fan of Galvatron being a separate character who coexists with Megatron, in general. I like Megatron here but mostly because he seems like he's being written as, shall we say, Galvatron on Prozac. And it feels to me like a lot of what they're going for here is an attempt to unwrite the '86 movie while pushing other aspects of G1.

What does this show have to do with the 1986 movie? The two aren't related. This isn't the G1 cartoon contintuity. The 1986 movie is only connected to the G1 cartoon and some of the Marvel G1 comics (as an alternate future timeline). Megatron never killed Starscream in this show's history, so what? He never killed Starscream in tons of other TF fiction either, G1-based or otherwise.

[william-james88]

I dislike the otherwise pretty good Titans Return/Combiner Wars toys and IDW line's attempts to distance Megatron and Galvatron.

Do you have Titans Return Galvatron? This is what his head looks like:



I wouldnt call that distancing themselves at all.

[o.supreme]

Yeah..but his name is "Nucleon", also there's a TR Megatron coming out...so yeah...all kinds of confusing fun

[fenrir72]

Starscream being the usual backstabber he is. Btw, already the dude is condemned. Can't we hear him out first?

[RodimusRex]

I really, really love the 1986 movie and am really put off by things that tamper with it.

In particular, what we had the last two episodes seemed like pure S1-2 fan drivel, in that:

- Rodimus is depicted as cowardly and incompetent. I could buy him not being the MOST competent but that's because he's a creative thinker.

- They go out of their way to suggest Megatron has never killed Starscream. And while I like this Megatron, do you know why I like him?

Because he's basically S3 Galvatron, written at a higher functioning level.

I dislike the otherwise pretty good Titans Return/Combiner Wars toys and IDW line's attempts to distance Megatron and Galvatron. For me, Megatron becoming Galvatron is one of the best and most imagination titillating concepts in Transformers. I especially love that it requires the sacrifice of a classic character to get there because it suggests that a Transformer can become someone else at the expense of their old identity. I would much prefer to see a continuity where Galvatron becomes Megatron again than see Galvatron and Megatron as separate characters or a mature continuity like this where it seems like no version of the '86 movie happened, aside from a character assassination of Rodimus.

Not a fan of Galvatron being a separate character who coexists with Megatron, in general. I like Megatron here but mostly because he seems like he's being written as, shall we say, Galvatron on Prozac. And it feels to me like a lot of what they're going for here is an attempt to unwrite the '86 movie while pushing other aspects of G1.

But this is a new continuity. The 1986 Movie isn't a part of it's continuity.

I know that it's its own continuity...

How to put this... I feel like this is catering to critics of the 1986 movie in much the same way that Deviations was.

My impression from talking to booth reps at conventions is also that Hasbro is, perhaps, more aware of the anti-S3 fandom in the U.S. than they are of S3 fandom, which is seen as distinctly more of a Japanese phenomenon. I think a lot of the S3 stuff we've seen in recent years was negotiated out with Takara. That doesn't mean Hasbro hates S3 or post-movie Transformers. And I think their employees love a broad array of Transformers from all eras. But when they imagine adult U.S. fans, they imagine people who are, say, more upset that Optimus Prime died and Megatron became Galvatron than they imagine people who ate those developments up.

I guess what I'm saying is, coupled with Deviations, I get the vibe that some writers really didn't see S3 and the changes brought about by The Movie very favorably or at least thinks their target audience is looking for "payback" against the movie in some ways.

Kind of like how all the stand-up comedy routines (and now comic books) with lines about Aquaman talking to fish are generally people who got introduced to Aquaman through Superfriends. The DC Comics New 52 isn't the same continuity as Superfriends but people keep writing AT people who know Aquaman from Superfriends with lots of pro- or anti-talking to fish jokes. Which I don't think was ever nearly as big of a deal elsewhere, at least no more than Marvel's Ka-Zar talking to cats was.

[o.supreme]

not saying your points aren't valid...but I don't think that is the case...If there are any critics of TF:TM, they must be few & far between as I personally don't know any. Deviations...I think wasn't borne out of criticism of the 1986 film, more than an honest-to-goodness what-if story...gone wrong. I adore the 1986 film, but always myself wondered *what if* Optimus had killed Megatorn, I have played that scenario out many times in my mind over the past 30 years, that doesn't mean I don't like TF:TM...its just to bad Deviations was so horribly executed. This CW series is really nothing to fear. It may have a 10-year olds sensibility toward characters, but it wont change anything. There are several reasons to dislike it...but having to do with the movie is not one of them. In fact I'm almost positive if you asked any of the folks involved with CW, they would say they love TF:TM.

[Kurona]

not saying your points aren't valid...but I don't think that is the case...If there are any critics of TF:TM, they must be few & far between as I personally don't know any. Deviations...I think wasn't borne out of criticism of the 1986 film, more than an honest-to-goodness what-if story...gone wrong. I adore the 1986 film, but always myself wondered *what if* Optimus had killed Megatorn, I have played that scenario out many times in my mind over the past 30 years, that doesn't mean I don't like TF:TM...its just to bad Deviations was so horribly executed. This CW series is really nothing to fear. It may have a 10-year olds sensibility toward characters, but it wont change anything. There are several reasons to dislike it...but having to do with the movie is not one of them. In fact I'm almost positive if you asked any of the folks involved with CW, they would say they love TF:TM.

To be fair, Deviations did have a very "Season-1-and-2-were-the-best-I-hate-everything-after-it" feel, considering the main players end up being Season 1 and 2 characters this time around and every single character introduced in the movie aside from Kup either dies or ends up not existing in the first place (Galvatron, Cyclonus and Scourge). And of course, everyone being an asshole to Hot Rod. What was up with that? Especially since most of it came from Magnus, the hell?

[Sabrblade]

Incoming rant:

To all those who keep saying we should have expected this from Starscream because this is how he's supposed to be because "He's Starscream!"...

We were promised a new Starscream, a different Starscream, a more mature, self-aware, developed Starscream who has grown past his past ambitions after having actually fulfilled the ambitions he had so longed for, as given by his Prelude video:



This video presented us with a Starscream who actually had intrigue and newfound wisdom. A take on Starscream that promised several possibilities for a great wealth of potential. It laid the foundations and precedent for this show's Starscream to having grown out of his desire for power and authority because he had finally acquired the power and authority he sought for so long... and realized that having said power and authority wasn't all it's cracked up to be.

This video showed a promising new start for Starscream trying to better assume a role of responsibility and duty with a genuine concern for the greater good of Cybertron. And up until this latest episode, he gave every impression of living up to that role described in his Prelude.

Then, along comes the end of episode 6, in which he suddenly pulls a heel-face turn and goes back to being the ambitious Starscream that he used to be before he matured, doing so completely without any precedent besides the shallow reason of "because he's Starscream".

That is both awful and lazy storytelling, made even worse by their doing such to one of the show's only two interesting characters. There was no subtlety to be read into Starscream's behavior leading up to his betrayal. It came completely out of nowhere and contradicted everything this show had done to establish its Starscream as reformed prior to this point.

This wasn't him "playing the long game", it was him getting his newfound personality completely and hastily overridden by his older one for no other reason than to surprise the viewers watching this show. Disregard everything you know about the typical Starscream-type character, pretending that you're a new viewer to Transformers watching this show as your first ever exposure to TF fiction, and you'd see that Starscream's betrayal was completely forced.

It's fine if anyone here prefers the traditional backstabbing take on Starscream, yes. But up until episode 6 happened, this wasn't that kind of Starscream. One can argue "He's Starscream!" all they want, but up until now, he wasn't THAT Starscream anymore. It doesn't matter if whether his going back to being a double-crosser "makes him right again" or not, it ruined the integrity of this version of the character's portrayal, rendering said portrayal both inconsistent and convoluted in the grand scheme of things, and that's bad for any kind of serious work of fiction that's trying (or at least thinks it's trying) to do a good job with its story and characters in a sensible, non-comical way.

For all this show's faults, it's clear that it at least thinks it's trying to do a seriously good quality job, but seems completely oblivious to all its wrongdoings (in this case, making Starscream turn on the others at the last minute when there's no precedent for him to do so).

[Mr Skram]

Nik Hero mentioned SS's eyes were glowing a different color after touching the enigma and they thought it might be controlling him. I could see them doing something like that. It's still kinda shoddy storytelling, but at least there's a possibility that the mature Starscream is in tact, that the surge of power from the enigma brought out his repressed or more instinctual traits. Doesn't make too much sense, but not a lot in this series does.

[Sabrblade]

Someone mentioned his eyes were glowing a different color after touching the enigma and they thought it might be controlling him. I could see them doing something like that. It's still kinda shoddy storytelling, but at least there's a possibility that the mature Starscream is in tact, that the surge of power from the enigma brought out his repressed or more instinctual traits. Doesn't make too much sense, but not a lot in this series does.

Except that, when Rodimus requested Starscream to "Do the right thing. End this war," Starscream gave his very sinister line of "Oh, I will..." right as he was starting to grab the Enigma, before his eyes started glowing.

[william-james88]

Doesn't make too much sense

Your right, it doesnt. Because that would mean that when he told Megatron he had been planing this for a looooong time, it would be the enigma talking?

[Sabrblade]

Plus, the Prelude video was him giving an internal monologue, a bout of inward self-reflection, proclaiming his reformation. His betrayal in this episode just renders that Prelude a complete and utter lie to the audience.

[Mr Skram]

I had some big thing written up about how the enigma affects bots in the vicinity ala IDW's enigma blah blah, but you guys are right. There really is no defense for it. Not that I was trying to defend it in the first place, just attempting to make sense of it.
I bash on the show, but I still want it to be good. Bit of a conundrum.

[RodimusRex]

I like the casting and the character designs and the animation style.

The dialogue runs hot and cold for me. Some great, some awful.

The plot and pacing feel like a disappointment as a story aimed at "mature Transformers fans" basically just has a bunch of macho fighting, dismemberment, and glorification of the alpha males present.

I think Devastation was considerably better written, better paced, and more mature. Devastation felt like a pretty good lost movie/episode. This feels like fighting game cutscenes.

How weird.

In hindsight, I'd have been fine with making Devastation a movie/miniseries and letting this be the game.

[o.supreme]

Plus, the Prelude video was him giving an internal monologue, a bout of inward self-reflection, proclaiming his reformation..

Was it internal??...I never took it that way... and even if it was, the best sociopaths are the ones that lie to themselves.

His betrayal in this episode just renders that Prelude a complete and utter lie to the audience

which is what Starscream does best...just sayin... No need to go on a huge long rant to defend your point. I know I am the lone wolf here...just so long as we know there is no right or wrong...just differing opinions.

[Tyrannacon]

I'm starting to wonder if Sabr has access to my mind's thoughts about Starscream, because that's what I feel myself. They did a full turn around on what they established in the prelude and put him back to who he used to be. There was really no indication in these 5-6 minute videos leading up to this that Starscream was playing a game of strategy or whatever. It was and is entirely sudden with his turn around and it wrecks the prelude considerably.

As for the hate over TF:TM's aftermath with killing off Optimus and reformatting Megatron to make room for the new characters in S3/Rebirth. I feel like yeah, they jumped the shark then and that's kind of why there's been more focus as of late to separate Megatron and Galvatron and not many call-backs to Hot Rod becoming Rodimus in a lot of fiction.

Frankly, I used to not like Galvatron due to the insanity he had. I saw Megatron more sympathetic in terms of troop morale and what not than Galvatron. So Megatron was a "better" commander that was evenly matched with Optimus. With his reformat into Galvatron, plasma bath, he seemed more reliant on his lieutenants (less so on Soundwave, which was meh) than Megatron was it made Galvatron and Rodimus not on the same level that Optimus and Megatron were.

I definitely feel like sweeping it under a rug and pretending like it didn't happen is not the best solution to the problem though. There are fans of everything and there should be representation for all ideas and such. That's just my own idealism there.

It is pretty obvious the CW cartoon here is set in an altogether different continuity from both the original cartoon and comics though. In fact, I'd probably see it as a hybrid of various other G1 concepts. I wonder what the official word will be on it though. So that's kind of why I'm more tolerant of it and the differences it puts forth. Though as Sabr pointed out with the Starscream thing, that was definitely a bad move and was bad story telling.

[Bronzewolf]

Hey, Seibertronians! It's Tuesday again, and that means- wait, what? Why- What do you mean it's not Tuesday?! No, there's no way...It's...Wednesday?! What?! How did...? Wow, Labor Day really messed me up.

Well, I guess we should just jump in to the breakdown, then. I don't want you to have to wait any longer.


Episode 6 starts off immediately where 5 ended, with Rodimus in the hands (quite literally) of Devastator. His voice oddly sounds like an Autotuned mess here, but I don't know why. He doesn't speak normally with Autotune, so I find it weird that they would use it here. Anyway, the decepticon combiner throws Rodimus back to the council, demanding that he be given the Enigma of Combination. Megatron tells him to stand down, but Devastator refuses, saying Megatron isn't his leader anymore. On the close-ups during this scene, again, the mouth sync is as bad as a terribly-dubbed anime, (Odd, because it was animated to sync to English, not Japanese, so at least the Anime have an excuse.) but I've said that a thousand times, so I'll move past it.

Another issue I haven't really touched on in these reviews is the sound level. I know a lot of people won't care at all, as this is a very technical detail, but it does effect everyone who watches it. The sounds level is completely random, and ear-splittingly loud sometimes. One moment, I have to turn my volume up to hear all the dialogue, but then during mainly the action-driven parts, the audio peaks and sounds like it's coming through a blown-out subwoofer. It's not equalized at all, and just...loud. It was very prominent in this episode, so I thought I'd touch on it.

Prime, Windblade, and Megatron all try to fight off Devastator, but it doesn't look like Devvy was the only one who heard about the Council's new toy. Victorion arrives, and demands to have the enigma. Devastator claims it as his, and they battle over ownership.


The party don't start till I walk in...

The council comes to the unanimous decision that it's best to use the Enigma against the Combiners. They activate the relic, which turns into a Matrix of Leadership-style orb with handles. Rodimus discovers that (for some reason) he can't posses the Enigma. They never explain why, it just happens. He basically reaches out, touches it, gets zapped, and says "Welp, that's it for me. Good luck!". They at least give an explanation as to why the Mistress can't use it, (it might be a terrible one, but it's still a reason) but they don't say anything about why Rodimus can't. Tell me in the comments if it's more obvious to you why, because it makes no sense to me.


Victorion and Devastator face off

So, because neither other member of the council can harness it's power, the Enigma is given to Starscream. He must take control and tell the combiners to stop. Rodimus tells him he trusts him, and that the former decepticon should do the right thing and end the war.

Oh, he will.

He uses the Enigma to take control of all the combiners, reviving Computron and Menasor, and debilitating Devastator and Victorion. He starts to use them as his own limbs, literally making a combiner combiner, and betrays the council.


We interrupt Transformers to bring you Voltron

Megatron is the first to realise what's happening, and laughs at what Starscream has orchestrated, saying it's exactly what he would have done.

Starscream finishes his evolution, becoming one of the most powerful beings ever created. We see a glimpse of him before the episode ends.


-Evil version of "You've got the Touch" plays-


So, some final thoughts. I enjoyed this episode. Not as much as the previous couple admittedly, but I enjoyed it. I agree with some of the commenters on the boards, it's a shame to see an interesting iteration of a character turn out to not be as different or interesting as we thought. Starscream, just like war, never changes. He reminded me of the comics, where he took up the role of politician, except this version to me was more intriguing just because he didn't seem to have any ulterior motives. I also agree that Megatron is the best character in the series. I actually think he's one of the best executed Megatrons in Transformers history. It suits him so well. You got that right, Machinima created one of my favorite iterations of Megatron ever. Never thought you'd hear me say that now, did ya?

There's only a few more episodes left...how will it all tie together? What other characters will we see? Doesn't that song that plays in the background while Starscream starts forming the combiners sound like Blue Monday by New Order? Speculate in the comments below! But before you do, watch the episode now on Go90 and if you're outside the U.S., check out our announcement article for alternate viewing options. See you next week! Same bot-time, same bot-channel!

[DedicatedGhostArt]

I think there are some good elements in this cartoon, but it is definitely not a GREAT cartoon. I agree with all the issues you pointed out, Bronzewolf. One thing that confuses me is why the heck Optimus and Windblade went to get Megatron to "help" when they would've been better off without him. It just doesn't make sense to me. I do love that Starscream combiner combiner though. That looks awesome, and it really makes me with that this could be a toy.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

With Machinima's Combiner Wars series in full swing, and considering the big green guy himself has made his appearance in the show, it would only be right for someone to tweet his original design art! IDW Artist Andrew Griffith was nice enough to Tweet his original design for Devastator, which is heavily based on his Combiner Wars toy. There were some modifications made to the big green wrecking machine prior to his appearance in the series, but it is nice to see what he was supposed to look like in Griffith's mind. Check out the image below, and let us know what you think in the comments section below!

[Prime1701]

I think Rodimus was not chosen because he was missing an arm, and Starscream was not.

[Sabrblade]

Plus, the Prelude video was him giving an internal monologue, a bout of inward self-reflection, proclaiming his reformation..

Was it internal??...I never took it that way... and even if it was, the best sociopaths are the ones that lie to themselves.

Well, unless he was breaking the fourth wall, there was no one else he was talking to, so it'd have to have been an internal monologue spoken to himself. His mouth wasn't moving either.

His betrayal in this episode just renders that Prelude a complete and utter lie to the audience

which is what Starscream does best...just sayin... No need to go on a huge long rant to defend your point. I know I am the lone wolf here...just so long as we know there is no right or wrong...just differing opinions.

Gonna try to keep this as short as needed to avoid another huge long rant. Like I said in my rant, up until this point, he wasn't acting like the typical Starscream. We had no reason to doubt his sincerity prior to his betrayal because of how consistent Machinima had written him beforehand. Like I said, disregard what you know of guys named "Starscream" when thinking about this. Or, better yet, imagine if it was any other character put in this situation, in which the show did all it could to establish said character as genuinely trying to do right by Cybertron for the good of all, only to turn around at the last minute and backstab everyone without any prior indication that doing so is something that this character would feel inclined to do. That it didn't make sense from the standpoint of the show's established narrative is why it was so jarring, along with how it took away from how interesting he was before in favor of making him as ordinary and cliche as ever, which is something a lot of us did not want to happen.

[King Kuuga]

I think Rodimus was not chosen because he was missing an arm, and Starscream was not.

I fail to see how a missing arm would make him unsuitable to use the Enigma of Combination, which seems to rely mostly on thought processes.

[fenrir72]

Incoming rant:

To all those who keep saying we should have expected this from Starscream because this is how he's supposed to be because "He's Starscream!"...

We were promised a new Starscream, a different Starscream, a more mature, self-aware, developed Starscream who has grown past his past ambitions after having actually fulfilled the ambitions he had so longed for, as given by his Prelude video:



This video presented us with a Starscream who actually had intrigue and newfound wisdom. A take on Starscream that promised several possibilities for a great wealth of potential. It laid the foundations and precedent for this show's Starscream to having grown out of his desire for power and authority because he had finally acquired the power and authority he sought for so long... and realized that having said power and authority wasn't all it's cracked up to be.

This video showed a promising new start for Starscream trying to better assume a role of responsibility and duty with a genuine concern for the greater good of Cybertron. And up until this latest episode, he gave every impression of living up to that role described in his Prelude.

Then, along comes the end of episode 6, in which he suddenly pulls a heel-face turn and goes back to being the ambitious Starscream that he used to be before he matured, doing so completely without any precedent besides the shallow reason of "because he's Starscream".

That is both awful and lazy storytelling, made even worse by their doing such to one of the show's only two interesting characters. There was no subtlety to be read into Starscream's behavior leading up to his betrayal. It came completely out of nowhere and contradicted everything this show had done to establish its Starscream as reformed prior to this point.

This wasn't him "playing the long game", it was him getting his newfound personality completely and hastily overridden by his older one for no other reason than to surprise the viewers watching this show. Disregard everything you know about the typical Starscream-type character, pretending that you're a new viewer to Transformers watching this show as your first ever exposure to TF fiction, and you'd see that Starscream's betrayal was completely forced.

It's fine if anyone here prefers the traditional backstabbing take on Starscream, yes. But up until episode 6 happened, this wasn't that kind of Starscream. One can argue "He's Starscream!" all they want, but up until now, he wasn't THAT Starscream anymore. It doesn't matter if whether his going back to being a double-crosser "makes him right again" or not, it ruined the integrity of this version of the character's portrayal, rendering said portrayal both inconsistent and convoluted in the grand scheme of things, and that's bad for any kind of serious work of fiction that's trying (or at least thinks it's trying) to do a good job with its story and characters in a sensible, non-comical way.

For all this show's faults, it's clear that it at least thinks it's trying to do a seriously good quality job, but seems completely oblivious to all its wrongdoings (in this case, making Starscream turn on the others at the last minute when there's no precedent for him to do so).

Didn't even foresee that those intro movies were a red herring? Designed to confuse/cover up the plot?

I have the feel of the Underbase Saga. Old SS is gonna get the "hives" from being ODed with the enigma and explode in the end. Or see Jeebus aka Primus at the end of the tunnel and repent.