The Energon Pub

Sabrblade wrote:Oh yes, while G1 did have its moments, it was not without its flaws.

In fact, has there ever been a TF series that was near-flawless?

I wouldnt bet on it.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And at best that can be called "unrealistically animated" but the animation itself was wonderfully rendered.

Again the animation had errors but it was rendered beautifully.

Which are all examples of errors and unrealistic characteristics of a costume.

None of which changes that the episode in question is one of the better animated and looking episodes of the G1 serries.

Unrealistic = horrible animation, they're one and the same in my book.

Even the Ironman series which was animated in the 90's (durring Clinton's Presendency no less) was horribly animated. I've seen a few episodes recently and noticed that he gets his armor out of a suit case and it's not even colored when it first folds out and the color seems to just appear when he's fully suited.

Now bad animation for the G1 Transformers is exscusable because for the time that it was made most cartoons were just as bad. But the same kind of cheap lazy animation being used in a cartoon like Ironman just isn't exceptable.

If by beautifully animated you mean G1 had the most detail in any Transformers cartoon then yes I'll agree with you there. You look at a G1 Transformer and you can see some of the best looking vehicles and robots Transformers has ever had. They even added damage details to them at times. The human element in the series was allso the most realistic of any series. (anime kida ruined the current series a little bit sence alot of todays cartoons even if they're not real anime use that art styal now.)

However the actual animation is FAR from flawless. Any sort of unrealistic movement or animation is what I consider to be horrible animation in an otherwise wonderfully animated cartoon series. Characters being colored wrong or appear in scenes they really shouldn't be in (because they're either on the wrong team or have died several times) are allso included as bad animation.

Basically being badly animated isn't just limited to jumpy or out of place animations that don't move as smoothly as they should even though Starscream removing his helmet would still fall under that catigory on the count of his shoulder vents just appearing randomly. It wasn't just unrealistic, it was allso verry "poof here they are" rather than haveing a smooth transition from the mask to Starscream's unviel.

Animation errors can really ruin a mood too. Optimus Prime's death in the movie. Verry touching sceen... up till Magnus trys to put the Matrix in his chest and you see it jump in on it's own then he pulls it out and puts it back in again. I could actully edit that scene myself and fix that little tweek. Other than that moment the movie was preddy good, just pretend all the Bombshells are clones and/or overlook his multiple deaths.

Saber Prime wrote:Unrealistic = horrible animation, they're one and the same in my book.

They dont in mine.

If so then we would have a hell of a lot more issues with the "Unrealistic" nature of each and every episode.

Astrotrain standing at the same height as Starscream but later holding, inside himself, about 20 Decepticons..

The cartoon itself, and most cartoons for that matter, are "Unrealistic" entirely.

To me what constitutes "good animation" is not if its realistic but simply the art itself.

Take "Megatrons master plan" and compare the art in it to episodes like "City of steel" or "The Core".

Saber Prime wrote:Even the Ironman series which was animated in the 90's (durring Clinton's Presendency no less) was horribly animated. I've seen a few episodes recently and noticed that he gets his armor out of a suit case and it's not even colored when it first folds out and the color seems to just appear when he's fully suited.

Now bad animation for the G1 Transformers is exscusable because for the time that it was made most cartoons were just as bad. But the same kind of cheap lazy animation being used in a cartoon like Ironman just isn't exceptable.

I'm not sure why you would try to make a comparison since theres a decade between these shows.

But part of what was done in Ironman with the suit in a case was a "WINK" to the fans of the comic book and the original Ironman cartoon.

Saber Prime wrote:However the actual animation is FAR from flawless.

Flaws do not take away from beauty.

Saber Prime wrote:Any sort of unrealistic movement or animation is what I consider to be horrible animation in an otherwise wonderfully animated cartoon series.

Then the entire series must have been "horribly animated" in your eyes.

With all the scale issues alone the show must be un-watchable to you

Saber Prime wrote: Characters being colored wrong

"Error" does not take away from how the animation looks

Saber Prime wrote: or appear in scenes they really shouldn't be in (because they're either on the wrong team or have died several times)

"Error" or "bad communication" between animator and the producers....does not take away from how the animation looks

Saber Prime wrote: Animation errors can really ruin a mood too.

That I can agree with.

An animation error can make the episode un-bearable to watch but it really cant interfere with the beauty of the art in the episode.

Its kind of like looking at Fran Drescher

Shes Pretty, has a nice body, but once you here that laugh you want to kill her.

But shes still pretty and has a nice body.

Saber Prime wrote:Other than that moment the movie was preddy good, just pretend all the Bombshells are clones and/or overlook his multiple deaths.

Your forgetting how Starscream,Thundergracker and Skywarp are all seen after they died too.....

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:Any sort of unrealistic movement or animation is what I consider to be horrible animation in an otherwise wonderfully animated cartoon series.

Then the entire series must have been "horribly animated" in your eyes.

With all the scale issues alone the show must be un-watchable to you

Not really. As I've said before, story line takes presidence over everything else and for the time it was made most cartoons were like that anyway.

There are certain episodes that are unwatchable but that's because they're horribly writen. Bad wrighting just can't be made any better with bad animation to match it. Seriously they could of left the humans out of any scenes that required them to see the truth untill the end of the episode and they could of used poorly made robots as Fake Autobots insted of thoughs stupid disguises. That would of been an huge improvement on the episode animation wise but it'd still be horribly writen.

Saber Prime wrote: Characters being colored wrong

"Error" does not take away from how the animation looks

Actully it does especially when characters change color on camera. At least when it happens off camera you can easily say it's a different character but when it happens on camera you know something went wrong.

Saber Prime wrote: or appear in scenes they really shouldn't be in (because they're either on the wrong team or have died several times)

"Error" or "bad communication" between animator and the producers....does not take away from how the animation looks

Again, yes it does. It makes the animation look rushed and sloppy when say, Jazz appears in the middle of Decepticon headquarters as an extra. (no one attacking him, he's not doing anything, just there to fill space.)

Saber Prime wrote:Other than that moment the movie was preddy good, just pretend all the Bombshells are clones and/or overlook his multiple deaths.

Your forgetting how Starscream,Thundergracker and Skywarp are all seen after they died too.....

Yes... yes I am... I just remembered about Bombshell because someone made fun of it on a YouTube spoof allthough it turns out it was Shrapnel not Bombshell. I remembered that wrong... Like allways... Thanks for not pointing it out though.

Anyway sence I mentioned it earlier I have actully gone and done it. I edited out the little Matrix jump in Optimus Prime's Death scene. I'll have it uploaded to YouTube soon.

Despite its faults this is still my favourite G1 story. With a little TLC it could be brilliant.

Tekka wrote:Despite its faults this is still my favourite G1 story. With a little TLC it could be brilliant.

i smell a fanfic a brewin

Saber Prime wrote:Not really. As I've said before, story line takes presidence over everything else and for the time it was made most cartoons were like that anyway.

There are certain episodes that are unwatchable but that's because they're horribly writen. Bad wrighting just can't be made any better with bad animation to match it. Seriously they could of left the humans out of any scenes that required them to see the truth untill the end of the episode and they could of used poorly made robots as Fake Autobots insted of thoughs stupid disguises. That would of been an huge improvement on the episode animation wise but it'd still be horribly writen.

I can see what your saying.

Saber Prime wrote:Actully it does especially when characters change color on camera. At least when it happens off camera you can easily say it's a different character but when it happens on camera you know something went wrong.

Sure something may have gone wrong.....but the art itself is still wonderfully rendered.

If you were completely color blind or had a black and white tv you would hardly noticed some of those errors.

Saber Prime wrote:Again, yes it does. It makes the animation look rushed and sloppy when say, Jazz appears in the middle of Decepticon headquarters as an extra. (no one attacking him, he's not doing anything, just there to fill space.)

No it makes the "Episode" look rushed and sloopy.

If Jazz looks good the animation is fine but the story and the episode can be shot to hell.

Saber Prime wrote: I remembered that wrong... Like allways... Thanks for not pointing it out though.

I didnt point it out because I'm pretty sure Bombshell did show up somewhere else in the film after he died.

Saber Prime wrote:
Anyway sence I mentioned it earlier I have actully gone and done it. I edited out the little Matrix jump in Optimus Prime's Death scene. I'll have it uploaded to YouTube soon.

Good job

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:Again, yes it does. It makes the animation look rushed and sloppy when say, Jazz appears in the middle of Decepticon headquarters as an extra. (no one attacking him, he's not doing anything, just there to fill space.)

No it makes the "Episode" look rushed and sloopy.

If Jazz looks good the animation is fine but the story and the episode can be shot to hell.

You seem to be forgetting Animation is a movieing picture, not a still photo. If you wanna say the Art is good, as I said before, I agree with you there. But to say the animation is good is rediculas.

Have you ever seen a Speed Racer cartoon? The art is preddy damn good in there but would you seriously call that good animation? The character's barely move and for a cartoon about "speed" haveing characters that don't move at all or verry little is preddy damn horrible. I loved the Speed Racer movie but I've allways hated that cartoon.

I allso hate the cartoon because it's some of the worst voice acting I've ever heard and it's the worst wrighting I've ever heard. I have to win a race works great when it's for money but the reasons they were raceing made absolutly no sence. I bet a 4 could think of better plot lines than the Speed Racer cartoon had.

I tried to watch the cartoon shortly before seeing the movie to refresh my memory, I couldn't even make it through a full episode. I watched maybe 10 min. before I remembered, it was my brother who allways watched that cartoon, not me. I didn't like Speed Racer when I was 4 years old for the exact same reasons I hate it now so I know a 4 year old can come up with better stories.

Saber Prime wrote:You seem to be forgetting Animation is a movieing picture, not a still photo.

I'm not really forgetting it I'm just placing more value on the art itself over coloring and realistic characteristics which seemed to be the focuses of your earlier statements.

Saber Prime wrote:Have you ever seen a Speed Racer cartoon? The art is preddy damn good in there but would you seriously call that good animation?

I would....for its time.

Saber Prime wrote: The character's barely move

Much like Marvels earliest cartoons.

Saber Prime wrote: I loved the Speed Racer movie but I've allways hated that cartoon.

I loved the cartoon as a kid but I didnt see the movie.For some reason I wasnt interested.

Saber Prime wrote:Anyway sence I mentioned it earlier I have actully gone and done it. I edited out the little Matrix jump in Optimus Prime's Death scene. I'll have it uploaded to YouTube soon.

That wasn't a mistake, that was done on purpose. When Magnus tried to put it into his chest, the Matrix slipped from the chamber and Magnus had to resecure it into the chamber. This was done to show further proof that Magnus was not the one chosen to bear the Matrix.

Sabrblade wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:Anyway sence I mentioned it earlier I have actully gone and done it. I edited out the little Matrix jump in Optimus Prime's Death scene. I'll have it uploaded to YouTube soon.

That wasn't a mistake, that was done on purpose. When Magnus tried to put it into his chest, the Matrix slipped from the chamber and Magnus had to resecure it into the chamber. This was done to show further proof that Magnus was not the one chosen to bear the Matrix.

That's not what it looked like.

If the Matrix "sliped from the chamber" we insted should of saw him place the Matrix in his chest twice and the first time see the Matrix tilt slightly after he lets go of it. But that's not what happen, he never placed the Matrix in his chest the first time and it looked perfectly secure all that happen was the Matrix jumped in on it's own.

Saber Prime wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:Anyway sence I mentioned it earlier I have actully gone and done it. I edited out the little Matrix jump in Optimus Prime's Death scene. I'll have it uploaded to YouTube soon.

That wasn't a mistake, that was done on purpose. When Magnus tried to put it into his chest, the Matrix slipped from the chamber and Magnus had to resecure it into the chamber. This was done to show further proof that Magnus was not the one chosen to bear the Matrix.

That's not what it looked like.

If the Matrix "sliped from the chamber" we insted should of saw him place the Matrix in his chest twice and the first time see the Matrix tilt slightly after he lets go of it. But that's not what happen, he never placed the Matrix in his chest the first time and it looked perfectly secure all that happen was the Matrix jumped in on it's own.

SABER FIGHT!

i'm gonna have to recatch the scene. i remember the maxrix not fitting, but i don't remember it jumping. Have you seen the remastered dvd? i think they might have fixed it

Sabrblade wrote:That wasn't a mistake, that was done on purpose. When Magnus tried to put it into his chest, the Matrix slipped from the chamber and Magnus had to resecure it into the chamber. This was done to show further proof that Magnus was not the one chosen to bear the Matrix.

I have two words for that. One of them is "bull." Can you guess the other?

Or to put it another way: source, please.

Name_Violation wrote:SABER FIGHT!

i'm gonna have to recatch the scene. i remember the maxrix not fitting, but i don't remember it jumping. Have you seen the remastered dvd? i think they might have fixed it

Check my YouTube page, I've not only see it but I fixed it. The video shows the original version before my edited version.

Sabrblade wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:Anyway sence I mentioned it earlier I have actully gone and done it. I edited out the little Matrix jump in Optimus Prime's Death scene. I'll have it uploaded to YouTube soon.

That wasn't a mistake, that was done on purpose. When Magnus tried to put it into his chest, the Matrix slipped from the chamber and Magnus had to resecure it into the chamber. This was done to show further proof that Magnus was not the one chosen to bear the Matrix.

Was that a joke????

Nothing like that is written into the pre-production script.

the original version had it need to be readjusted for a good reason.

granted, it does "jump" into his chest, unless he's carelessly tossing it in.

but the rearangement adds to the plot of the overall movie.

the way you have it makes it look like its suppost to fit, when it isn't ment for him.

Name_Violation wrote:the original version had it need to be readjusted for a good reason.

granted, it does "jump" into his chest, unless he's carelessly tossing it in.

but the rearangement adds to the plot of the overall movie.

the way you have it makes it look like its suppost to fit, when it isn't ment for him.

The way it was originally just looked like crap. The glow effect when Hot Rod catches it shows who it's really ment for. Even if you're right it's not needed and was poorly done.

not big on symbolism, are you?

And here I was thinking it was an animation mistake