The Energon Pub

I'm sitting here looking at Mark Bellomo's Transformers guide, and I remember wanting so many of these Transformers. They looked so cool. I probably would've sold organs to get some of them.

And now? I dunno. I'm a bit sad, because I realize that when I look at them now, they're ugly and crude compared to the Masterpiece line, or even Classics/United/Generations.

I loved them as a kid. I guess I love 'em a little less, now?

What about you guys?

Pretty much the same. I remember drooling over Fort Max, Star Saber and Overlord as a kid. Now that I've seen each one in person I'm just not all that interested in any of 'em.

Give me some generations versons of them however, then the drool shall flow once more.

I love the vintage stuff. I would love to get the entire US G1 cast, but with the high prices, that is just not a reality for me right now. So my collection is mostly Classics versions.

TransFan84 wrote:I'm sitting here looking at Mark Bellomo's Transformers guide, and I remember wanting so many of these Transformers. They looked so cool. I probably would've sold organs to get some of them.

And now? I dunno. I'm a bit sad, because I realize that when I look at them now, they're ugly and crude compared to the Masterpiece line, or even Classics/United/Generations.

I loved them as a kid. I guess I love 'em a little less, now?

What about you guys?

I assume you already own them right? Or are you basing your conclusion on pics from a book?

Mkall's case, he most probably owns them buggers, in my case I also own some of those bricks (Star saber/Overlord being the exception) But imho, comparing 1980's engineering to that of 21st century is kind of unfair. I've never expected the originals having intricate transformations plus multiple points of articulations. No sireee. Masterpiece is a class of their own. Hands down. Owning MPs IS also based on the nostalgia factor so it works both ways.

So this all boils down to taste.

isp hiccup

I giggled over the title of this thread. Think about it.
Nostalgia used to be better in the good old days...


Sorry. Continue.

That's a great book. I bought my copy for $5 and now it looks like it's appreciating just like the toys.

I recently acquired a mixed lot of random vintage G1 TFs. I had a great time figuring out what parts belonged to which characters and actually using the book for its intended purpose. Maybe in 30 years I'll use the new version of the book to help me with my random lot of vintage masterpieces.

Whenever I look at my G1's I still sorta consider them to be 'the true' Transformers. While some of the magic has been lost, due to owning a great number of them, I still can drool over the grails almost as much as I did when I was a young kid.

fenrir72 wrote:I assume you already own them right? Or are you basing your conclusion on pics from a book?

Hah. I wish I owned all of 'em. Some. G1 Optimus Prime, Sideswipe, Soundwave, Ravage, Laserbeak, Rumble. Hound. Metroplex. Grimlock is in there somewhere. The ones I managed to save are all in storage. My mom donated the rest.

I guess my tastes have changed. I enjoy looking at those pics of the old Transformers, but I don't find myself wanting any of them. I never thought I'd feel that way.

fenrir72 wrote:But imho, comparing 1980's engineering to that of 21st century is kind of unfair. I've never expected the originals having intricate transformations plus multiple points of articulations. No sireee. Masterpiece is a class of their own. Hands down.

Very much agreed, sir. You're so right in that regard; it's totally unfair to compare the toys of 30 years ago to the stuff we have today. The Masterpiece line is every bit deserving of its name. The vintage Transformers were outstanding in their day, though. Credit where it's due.

fenrir72 wrote:Owning MPs IS also based on the nostalgia factor so it works both ways.

That's an excellent point. I hadn't even thought of it that way.

fenrir72 wrote:So this all boils down to taste.

Indeed it does! My conclusion is thus: my tastes have definitely changed and today's awesome Transformers have turned me into an elitist schmuck of a collector.

fenrir72 wrote:Mkall's case, he most probably owns them buggers.

Actually, and this may surprise you, I can count the number of G1 figs I have on one hand, not including some of the cassettes.

Like you said, it's all about taste. I respect what the Transformers of the 80s achieved in terms of engineering and lateral thinking in the toy design world, but I prefer the far more pose-able figures of the modern day.

My love of G1 is just as strong today as it was when I was a kid. I still get very excited at the encore line, even if I have the vintage version.

I'm with LC, even though I have a large G1 collection, I still have a few figures to get so the excitement of keeping an eye out for them is still there.

Modern stuff ... eh, they're not that hard to find, they may look good, but they don't have the memories the originals did.

Burn wrote:Modern stuff.. they may look good, but they don't have the memories the originals did.

Agreed on that, definitely. The memories are very powerful and I'm still taken back to a happy, simpler time when we were so thrilled to have those fantastic Transformers toys in hand.

Anyone ever have to deal with that one kid at school who would always bullshit everyone about having all of 'em, but no one ever got to see 'em? That's a funny memory for me.

And all. I mean all modern TFs, classics especially owe their basic designs from the G1 bricks.

fenrir72 wrote:And all. I mean all modern TFs, classics especially owe their basic designs from the G1 bricks.

Negative. Beast Wars owe the entirety of their existence, including (and especially) their engineering to the wonderful folks at the then recently acquired company known as Kenner. I will forever be in their debt for taking up the torch of the Transformers toyline and brand from the primary Has/Tak engineers and creative/marketing teams during the darkest days in TF history when the brand nearly died.

They breathed new life into the franchise with a wildly different concept. Love it or hate it, they changed the Transformers forever.

Beastwars, well Optimus still had the baseball cap/kabuto style head. Same with Megatron, the bullet styled head. Big Convoy had the "truck lights" on his chest. So you might nitpick on the specificity of which among the BW molds had G1 influences so I still stand by my statement. You can even include the use of the G1 names for later iterations of figures released like Silverbolt, Prowl etc.

If you want to be specific with semantics, "all modern TFS (with some exceptions in BW that sported original non vehicular designs), classics especially owe their basic designs from the G1 bricks.

Or better yet, a lot of Japanese influences in their basic designs, engineering, concepts and biographies.

fenrir72 wrote:Beastwars, well Optimus still had the baseball cap/kabuto style head. Same with Megatron, the bullet styled head. Big Convoy had the "truck lights" on his chest. So you might nitpick on the specificity of which among the BW molds had G1 influences so I still stand by my statement. You can even include the use of the G1 names for later iterations of figures released like Silverbolt, Prowl etc.

If you want to be specific with semantics, "all modern TFS (with some exceptions in BW that sported original non vehicular designs), classics especially owe their basic designs from the G1 bricks.

Or better yet, a lot of Japanese influences in their basic designs, engineering, concepts and biographies.

Most of the original Beast Wars figures (wave 1) were only related to G1 because of the names. The "G1 bricks" had nothing to do with it. I'll give you that some of the later figures had G1 influences (like Megatron and Optimus Primal's heads), but beyond that, all they drew from even remotely was the G1 fiction (which to me is not the same thing as the "G1 bricks" since it was developed by Marvel/Sunbow, not Takara/Tomy, who were the ones behind the actual "G1 bricks" (i.e. the figures).

As much as I respect your opinion xyl360, I respectfully disagree. You believe Beastwars is a standalone/ independent creation/branching apart while I believe otherwise. Lets leave it at that. In the end................TRANSFORMERS ROCKS! Oh yeah!

fenrir72 wrote:As much as I respect your opinion xyl360, I respectfully disagree. You believe Beastwars is a standalone/ independent creation/branching apart while I believe otherwise. Lets leave it at that. In the end................TRANSFORMERS ROCKS! Oh yeah!

Hehe, no, not completely. I realize that the entire transforming concept it used was based on what came before (i.e. G2, G1, Diaclone/Microchange etc.) and that even the initial fiction (as can be found on the original packaging of the first Beast Wars figures, namely Optimus Primal and Megatron in their Bat and Alligator forms respectively) appeared to be a continuation of G1 of sorts. I'm simply saying that the engineering and the designs were totally new and not at all even an evolution of the actual figures from G1.

The connections to the G1 fiction which emerged during the CGI Beast Wars series is actually one of the biggest reasons I loved Beast Wars so much, but I'm really not talking about fiction here, I'm talking specifically about the toys and the technology they used. The engineering in the figures and their basic designs is what I'm referring to. If you look at the toylines Kenner created throughout the years prior to being acquired by Hasbro and shortly thereafter (including Beast Wars), much of what they did in Beast Wars already existed and it did not come from Hasbro. Just take a look at some of the toylines in their roster here and check out what TFWiki says about Kenner, Hasbro and Beast Wars. Everything I've ever seen or read on the subject essentially says that the Kenner division of Hasbro handles Beast Wars completely until it proved to be successful, at which point Hasbro took over the Transformers brand again (which is why the "Kenner" label suddenly vanished from the packaging late in the Beast Wars line and it all became "Hasbro" again).

While I agree that inspiration was certainly drawn from G1 etc. (especially the fiction), I believe the engineering and designs were almost entirely original and developed by Kenner to completely re-invent the Transformers.

Earlier G1 stuff, I'm not too wild about.

But later G1 stuff, like 1987 onward, still holds my intrigue.

However, I'd say nostalgia is still fairly strong as ever with the younger fans. Why, just the other day, I was at Target and ran into this younger teen boy (preteen, maybe?) who was saying how he liked Armada as a kid and wishes it would make a comeback.

SJ21 wrote:I love the vintage stuff. I would love to get the entire US G1 cast, but with the high prices, that is just not a reality for me right now. So my collection is mostly Classics versions.

The various reissues took care of the problem for me, and allowed me to swap out my old originals who were a little worse for wear with some nice, fresh, clean replacements with no overly noticeable differences other than a much lower price than vintage.

I've sort of leaned to excuse the "but it's not 30 years old" part as long as the item is essentially identical.

My love of G1 is as strong as its ever been, every Grail ive had has been G1 and when I do get one of them its replaced by another G1 figure.

Cobalt Prime wrote:

SJ21 wrote:I love the vintage stuff. I would love to get the entire US G1 cast, but with the high prices, that is just not a reality for me right now. So my collection is mostly Classics versions.

The various reissues took care of the problem for me, and allowed me to swap out my old originals who were a little worse for wear with some nice, fresh, clean replacements with no overly noticeable differences other than a much lower price than vintage.

I've sort of leaned to excuse the "but it's not 30 years old" part as long as the item is essentially identical.

Yep, same here. Reissues are a wonderful thing. I just wish they'd do more of them (and stop shortening those damn smokestacks !)

I'm quite content to replace any and all G1 toys with updated, presumably more durable (what with manufacturing standards and tests presumably only having gotten more stringent), better engineered toys. It's great when Hasbro updates a long ignored G1 character to modern form, and does it well. That RTS Jazz from a few years ago...so good. Wreck-Gar was pretty nice too. I've not tracked down TrailThingy yet, but if I do, it'll be more because of James Roberts, Alex Milne and the rest of the guys at IDW than any nostalgic reasons. G1 toys were often pretty good for the time they were released in, but I think the design work and quality probably peaked in the 2nd year. After the Diaclone molds started being replaced with newly designed Transformers toys, there was a noticeable shift in engineering and material. I still love a lot of those characters, but in almost all cases I'll take a newly designed, accurate and articulated toy over a brick.

Ever since I acquired Hasbro's release of the MP-10 mold, my desire to own a definitive G1 Optimus Prime toy has been fulfilled. This is the G1 Optimus toy I waited eight years to own, as I wanted one that was show-accurate, not too large (like the MP-1 toy was), and complete with all accessories and features. And most importantly of all, not brick-like.