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davun wrote:1. Primal is BW - different continuity, and most say is not the actualy Optimus Prime ( not seen BW myself, but I will sometime soon, it's a priority )
2. Cybertron sucked! Well, either way, it's what 1-2 years out of 20 year franchise, so it's minor, but your point is true.
3. Yeah, Pax don't count.
4. In the comic, as I recall, the only reason Prime removed his faceplate was because IT WAS RIPPED OFF!
Can I persuade you to vote for the face plate?
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
Shadowman wrote:davun wrote:1. Primal is BW - different continuity, and most say is not the actualy Optimus Prime ( not seen BW myself, but I will sometime soon, it's a priority )
2. Cybertron sucked! Well, either way, it's what 1-2 years out of 20 year franchise, so it's minor, but your point is true.
3. Yeah, Pax don't count.
4. In the comic, as I recall, the only reason Prime removed his faceplate was because IT WAS RIPPED OFF!
Can I persuade you to vote for the face plate?
1. Wrong-O! Beast Wars takes place around 300 years after Season 3, though that isn't revealed until around the end of Season 2.
2. Ha! I had a good point! Huzzah for self-esteem!
3. And yet he was Prime...
4. Thus proving he had lips under his mask.
And as for the unnumbered point: No, and part of it is because you're so new. Then again, you've already outlasted 1/3 of the people who join.
davun wrote:Shadowman wrote:davun wrote:1. Primal is BW - different continuity, and most say is not the actualy Optimus Prime ( not seen BW myself, but I will sometime soon, it's a priority )
2. Cybertron sucked! Well, either way, it's what 1-2 years out of 20 year franchise, so it's minor, but your point is true.
3. Yeah, Pax don't count.
4. In the comic, as I recall, the only reason Prime removed his faceplate was because IT WAS RIPPED OFF!
Can I persuade you to vote for the face plate?
1. Wrong-O! Beast Wars takes place around 300 years after Season 3, though that isn't revealed until around the end of Season 2.
2. Ha! I had a good point! Huzzah for self-esteem!
3. And yet he was Prime...
4. Thus proving he had lips under his mask.
And as for the unnumbered point: No, and part of it is because you're so new. Then again, you've already outlasted 1/3 of the people who join.
Answer me this. Did you think the lips looked good in the leaked trailer? How about everyone who's seen them ( in previews, and the recent test screening ) saying they are distracting, don't work well? You really think they're the best choice right now?
You may point out correctly how Prime does in fact have lips under the mask, but that does not mean *seeing* them is a good thing. The fact is this movie is in its final stages, and I think the general audience AND the fans will be far better served if the mask is there. We got 2 more movies to explore the lips issue, but it sounds like they're not working so well for movie 1.
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
Shadowman wrote:I don't really care if he has lips or if he keeps his faceplate on.
Shadowman wrote:davun wrote:Shadowman wrote:davun wrote:1. Primal is BW - different continuity, and most say is not the actualy Optimus Prime ( not seen BW myself, but I will sometime soon, it's a priority )
2. Cybertron sucked! Well, either way, it's what 1-2 years out of 20 year franchise, so it's minor, but your point is true.
3. Yeah, Pax don't count.
4. In the comic, as I recall, the only reason Prime removed his faceplate was because IT WAS RIPPED OFF!
Can I persuade you to vote for the face plate?
1. Wrong-O! Beast Wars takes place around 300 years after Season 3, though that isn't revealed until around the end of Season 2.
2. Ha! I had a good point! Huzzah for self-esteem!
3. And yet he was Prime...
4. Thus proving he had lips under his mask.
And as for the unnumbered point: No, and part of it is because you're so new. Then again, you've already outlasted 1/3 of the people who join.
Answer me this. Did you think the lips looked good in the leaked trailer? How about everyone who's seen them ( in previews, and the recent test screening ) saying they are distracting, don't work well? You really think they're the best choice right now?
You may point out correctly how Prime does in fact have lips under the mask, but that does not mean *seeing* them is a good thing. The fact is this movie is in its final stages, and I think the general audience AND the fans will be far better served if the mask is there. We got 2 more movies to explore the lips issue, but it sounds like they're not working so well for movie 1.
I'm still neutral, and I'll remain that way until I decide.
While I do want Prime to keep his iconic faceplate, I also want to see him be able to show emotion. I want ot know what's on Prime's mind just by looking at him. I think knowing what your hero is thinking is much, MUCH more important than a superficial faceplate.
Note that the two are very hard to do simultaniously.
FreakNasty wrote:Leonardo wrote:Aren't people complaining enough already? I can't imagine Bay's paying much attention to the internet.
Trust me, Bay will be listening. It's the "Cullen for Prime" thing again.
Make noise, becuase Michael Bay is still on the fence with this one.
Burn wrote:Shadowman wrote:I don't really care if he has lips or if he keeps his faceplate on.
If you were a TRUE fan you'd care ...
davun wrote:The fact is, those who have seen the mouth don't like it, the fans, the plants, and the general public. I've not heard *anyone* say they like it.
davun wrote:Your points are taken, and they are valid. However you should bear in mind characters like Darth Vader could not even emote with his eyes, yet is an extremely expressive character in film. Prime will have his eyes, his voice, and his body to convey expression. And you know, things left to the imagination can be far more effective than explicit visualization.
davun wrote:The fact is, those who have seen the mouth don't like it, the fans, the plants, and the general public. I've not heard *anyone* say they like it. This movie is in final stages of production, the window for change is almost closed. We all want this movie to be a super-hit, for obvious reasons. We've got 2 more movies after this to explore a mouth for Prime.
davun wrote:Let's get the faceplate on Prime for this movie. I don't want to come out of the cinema thinking Blackout was the coolest Transformer in the film.
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
1Big\"F\"ingRayOfSunshine wrote:Burn wrote:Shadowman wrote:I don't really care if he has lips or if he keeps his faceplate on.
If you were a TRUE fan you'd care ...
Thats kind of a broad statement to make, I may not know all of the continuity, but I know what I like so does that make me less of a fan?davun wrote:The fact is, those who have seen the mouth don't like it, the fans, the plants, and the general public. I've not heard *anyone* say they like it.
Actually I have said it twice in this thread alone. I have said that I don't see all of the fuss and for the love of god it is only a pair of lips has the fandom gotten that desperate to try to have some sort of impact on this movie that they have to nitpick everything that comes out of it. From Meg's design to Starscreamdown to flames and whether or not rachet is puke green just bcause a lot of people are used to a traditional ambulance color. Basically it comes down to this "This ain't your daddy's transformers." The time has come to shake up the status quo and that is exactly what they are doing. Boo hoo prime has lips, Megatrons mouth looks like a vagina, Shia lebouf cusses alot in interviews. Big "f"ing whoop de freaking do. Some people just need to stop hiding behind 1984 already and just realize that the time for change is here and is happening.
AbsumZer0 wrote:1Big\"F\"ingRayOfSunshine wrote:Burn wrote:Shadowman wrote:I don't really care if he has lips or if he keeps his faceplate on.
If you were a TRUE fan you'd care ...
Thats kind of a broad statement to make, I may not know all of the continuity, but I know what I like so does that make me less of a fan?davun wrote:The fact is, those who have seen the mouth don't like it, the fans, the plants, and the general public. I've not heard *anyone* say they like it.
Actually I have said it twice in this thread alone. I have said that I don't see all of the fuss and for the love of god it is only a pair of lips has the fandom gotten that desperate to try to have some sort of impact on this movie that they have to nitpick everything that comes out of it. From Meg's design to Starscreamdown to flames and whether or not rachet is puke green just bcause a lot of people are used to a traditional ambulance color. Basically it comes down to this "This ain't your daddy's transformers." The time has come to shake up the status quo and that is exactly what they are doing. Boo hoo prime has lips, Megatrons mouth looks like a vagina, Shia lebouf cusses alot in interviews. Big "f"ing whoop de freaking do. Some people just need to stop hiding behind 1984 already and just realize that the time for change is here and is happening.
Yeah, it's like all those damn people complaining about little things like the nipples on the Batsuit or the choreographed dance-like fight scenes or the big neon lit club atmosphere of all Gotham City in Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. Boo-hoo, Batman's been turned into a huge homosexual poster boy. It was time for a change, damn it! It was different from Batman in all the ways that made it popular to begin with, therefore better!
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
Shadowman wrote:AbsumZer0 wrote:1Big\"F\"ingRayOfSunshine wrote:Burn wrote:Shadowman wrote:I don't really care if he has lips or if he keeps his faceplate on.
If you were a TRUE fan you'd care ...
Thats kind of a broad statement to make, I may not know all of the continuity, but I know what I like so does that make me less of a fan?davun wrote:The fact is, those who have seen the mouth don't like it, the fans, the plants, and the general public. I've not heard *anyone* say they like it.
Actually I have said it twice in this thread alone. I have said that I don't see all of the fuss and for the love of god it is only a pair of lips has the fandom gotten that desperate to try to have some sort of impact on this movie that they have to nitpick everything that comes out of it. From Meg's design to Starscreamdown to flames and whether or not rachet is puke green just bcause a lot of people are used to a traditional ambulance color. Basically it comes down to this "This ain't your daddy's transformers." The time has come to shake up the status quo and that is exactly what they are doing. Boo hoo prime has lips, Megatrons mouth looks like a vagina, Shia lebouf cusses alot in interviews. Big "f"ing whoop de freaking do. Some people just need to stop hiding behind 1984 already and just realize that the time for change is here and is happening.
Yeah, it's like all those damn people complaining about little things like the nipples on the Batsuit or the choreographed dance-like fight scenes or the big neon lit club atmosphere of all Gotham City in Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. Boo-hoo, Batman's been turned into a huge homosexual poster boy. It was time for a change, damn it! It was different from Batman in all the ways that made it popular to begin with, therefore better!
I knwo you're being sarcastic, but Batman comics began in the '30s, and they were a lot like Batman Begins, where the Dark Knight allowed people to die. The only difference was that he commonly killed them himself, even using a gun a few times.
AbsumZer0 wrote:Shadowman wrote:AbsumZer0 wrote:1Big\"F\"ingRayOfSunshine wrote:Burn wrote:Shadowman wrote:I don't really care if he has lips or if he keeps his faceplate on.
If you were a TRUE fan you'd care ...
Thats kind of a broad statement to make, I may not know all of the continuity, but I know what I like so does that make me less of a fan?davun wrote:The fact is, those who have seen the mouth don't like it, the fans, the plants, and the general public. I've not heard *anyone* say they like it.
Actually I have said it twice in this thread alone. I have said that I don't see all of the fuss and for the love of god it is only a pair of lips has the fandom gotten that desperate to try to have some sort of impact on this movie that they have to nitpick everything that comes out of it. From Meg's design to Starscreamdown to flames and whether or not rachet is puke green just bcause a lot of people are used to a traditional ambulance color. Basically it comes down to this "This ain't your daddy's transformers." The time has come to shake up the status quo and that is exactly what they are doing. Boo hoo prime has lips, Megatrons mouth looks like a vagina, Shia lebouf cusses alot in interviews. Big "f"ing whoop de freaking do. Some people just need to stop hiding behind 1984 already and just realize that the time for change is here and is happening.
Yeah, it's like all those damn people complaining about little things like the nipples on the Batsuit or the choreographed dance-like fight scenes or the big neon lit club atmosphere of all Gotham City in Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. Boo-hoo, Batman's been turned into a huge homosexual poster boy. It was time for a change, damn it! It was different from Batman in all the ways that made it popular to begin with, therefore better!
I knwo you're being sarcastic, but Batman comics began in the '30s, and they were a lot like Batman Begins, where the Dark Knight allowed people to die. The only difference was that he commonly killed them himself, even using a gun a few times.
I'm well aware of that, and I wasn't talking about Batman Begins (which is the closest to the source material post Dark Knight Returns and second most successful film in the franchise) I was talking about the horrible Joel Schumacher films which deviated even further from Tim Burton's and temporarily killed the franchise because of it.
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
AbsumZer0 wrote:1Big\"F\"ingRayOfSunshine wrote:Burn wrote:Shadowman wrote:I don't really care if he has lips or if he keeps his faceplate on.
If you were a TRUE fan you'd care ...
Thats kind of a broad statement to make, I may not know all of the continuity, but I know what I like so does that make me less of a fan?davun wrote:The fact is, those who have seen the mouth don't like it, the fans, the plants, and the general public. I've not heard *anyone* say they like it.
Actually I have said it twice in this thread alone. I have said that I don't see all of the fuss and for the love of god it is only a pair of lips has the fandom gotten that desperate to try to have some sort of impact on this movie that they have to nitpick everything that comes out of it. From Meg's design to Starscreamdown to flames and whether or not rachet is puke green just bcause a lot of people are used to a traditional ambulance color. Basically it comes down to this "This ain't your daddy's transformers." The time has come to shake up the status quo and that is exactly what they are doing. Boo hoo prime has lips, Megatrons mouth looks like a vagina, Shia lebouf cusses alot in interviews. Big "f"ing whoop de freaking do. Some people just need to stop hiding behind 1984 already and just realize that the time for change is here and is happening.
Yeah, it's like all those damn people complaining about little things like the nipples on the Batsuit or the choreographed dance-like fight scenes or the big neon lit club atmosphere of all Gotham City in Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. Boo-hoo, Batman's been turned into a huge homosexual poster boy. It was time for a change, damn it! It was different from Batman in all the ways that made it popular to begin with, therefore better!
1Big\"F\"ingRayOfSunshine wrote:AbsumZer0 wrote:1Big\"F\"ingRayOfSunshine wrote:Burn wrote:Shadowman wrote:I don't really care if he has lips or if he keeps his faceplate on.
If you were a TRUE fan you'd care ...
Thats kind of a broad statement to make, I may not know all of the continuity, but I know what I like so does that make me less of a fan?davun wrote:The fact is, those who have seen the mouth don't like it, the fans, the plants, and the general public. I've not heard *anyone* say they like it.
Actually I have said it twice in this thread alone. I have said that I don't see all of the fuss and for the love of god it is only a pair of lips has the fandom gotten that desperate to try to have some sort of impact on this movie that they have to nitpick everything that comes out of it. From Meg's design to Starscreamdown to flames and whether or not rachet is puke green just bcause a lot of people are used to a traditional ambulance color. Basically it comes down to this "This ain't your daddy's transformers." The time has come to shake up the status quo and that is exactly what they are doing. Boo hoo prime has lips, Megatrons mouth looks like a vagina, Shia lebouf cusses alot in interviews. Big "f"ing whoop de freaking do. Some people just need to stop hiding behind 1984 already and just realize that the time for change is here and is happening.
Yeah, it's like all those damn people complaining about little things like the nipples on the Batsuit or the choreographed dance-like fight scenes or the big neon lit club atmosphere of all Gotham City in Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. Boo-hoo, Batman's been turned into a huge homosexual poster boy. It was time for a change, damn it! It was different from Batman in all the ways that made it popular to begin with, therefore better!
True Batman and Robin was utter garbage, however look at the time it was made. Comic book movies werent nessesarily taken seriously at the time. It wasnt until blade came out that people took notice of now a comic book property could be handled, then you have your spiderman and x men movies that further established things. Everyone likes to use batman and robin as an argument for all that is wrong with the movie industry when it comes to comic books, but for every batman and robin and daredevil movie, there is a spiderman or batman begin or even a punisher movie that shows how its done right.
Edit: I happen to like alicia silverstones nipples!
It's a matter of what, gets changed and why. Even after comic films began to be taken seriously we still got films like Catwoman, Hulk, and Constantine (the latter which weren't as horrible as Catwoman but were still pretty mediocre and upset a lot of fans). Stating that people must dislike something due to the fact that it's a change without considering the possibility that so many people dislike it because *gasp* it's actually less appealing than the original is a poor argument that's been proven wrong time and time again. Even if it were the truth, if so many people are simply 'upset by the changes' that it negatively affects sales as oppsed to improving them, then it's still a bad idea.
1Big\"F\"ingRayOfSunshine wrote:It's a matter of what, gets changed and why. Even after comic films began to be taken seriously we still got films like Catwoman, Hulk, and Constantine (the latter which weren't as horrible as Catwoman but were still pretty mediocre and upset a lot of fans). Stating that people must dislike something due to the fact that it's a change without considering the possibility that so many people dislike it because *gasp* it's actually less appealing than the original is a poor argument that's been proven wrong time and time again. Even if it were the truth, if so many people are simply 'upset by the changes' that it negatively affects sales as oppsed to improving them, then it's still a bad idea.
DO you know why? Because even when fans get what they want when it comes to comic movies its still not enough. Fanbases are very fickle, I've seen it on the Superman side and not with transformers. They are just never happy with anything because with the avent of the internet it gave everyone a voice and now they use that voice to complain.
1Big\"F\"ingRayOfSunshine wrote:This has nothing to do with opinions and frankly it's becoming a tired cop out because any time someone doesnt like something they tend to generalize it into "everyone's opinion" or something similar to that. Take this thread for example. Someone said that the only ones complaining were the geewunners. That is a generalization that is not correct but it is a little accurate. The people that have been the most vocal are the "purists". I dont really care if people want lips on him or if they don't. Whats next to complain about?
And while it may not be 'everyone's opinion' I'd like you to find me a positive response to Optimus' lips from someone who's seen seen the preview screening. Every response I've seen has been negative, and among those who haven't actually seen it yet the responses tend to be either negative or 'don't care'.
1Big\"F\"ingRayOfSunshine wrote:And while it may not be 'everyone's opinion' I'd like you to find me a positive response to Optimus' lips from someone who's seen seen the preview screening. Every response I've seen has been negative, and among those who haven't actually seen it yet the responses tend to be either negative or 'don't care'.
Aside from the screening review that everyone thinks is questionable in nature what other screenings have you heard about that they said they dont like it?
The 20-minute preview showings that people such as Seibertron have attended and written about?
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