The Energon Pub

Hello to all.

The subject is: "If a TF fan is busting to tell the TF moviemakers something about his feeling towards THE FUTURE of the TF movieverse, and the chance was given via the direct question "how do you think we (the moviemakers, without you) should do something?", what would you say to them in response?

Notes: With the trailer releases there's an influx of new blood joining Seibertron right now, so I feel strongly that it's a good opportunity to update this topic.
Folks can repeat themselves from other threads in this one (it's necessary for the subject matter to get a decent workout).Please try to go easier on newer members.EVERYBODY is welcome to post here, especially people who may assume they aren't.

Here goes:

Regarding the movieverse as a product line:
Everybody knows I personally want the movies to carry on for many years.I strongly feel an unhurried story and a STRATEGIC delay of Unicron (both on screen and behind closed doors) would be both entertaining and beneficial to the movieverse as a product line.Although there doesn't have to be 'a movie every year' I am not convinced that the lifespan of the movieverse should be determined prematurely.It has a life, and therefore a personality and talents of its' own.
There could even be a sub-game throughout the storylines amongst the creators, where every few films, a few moments of footage could show Unicron arriving somewhere and gradually, ponderously moving along on his journey to either Earth or Cybertron.A single group of refugees could easily find their way to Optimus Prime and tell him about Unicrons' appearance. The Autobots could then be busily trying to get ready, film by film, whilst Megatron and whoever else is gradually setting their efforts back, film by film, regardless of sub plots by film or by trilogy, there would then be an overhanging Saga theme.
The game could be that each director might have to show 45 seconds (or whatever) of Unicron by mandate, always closer to Earth or Cybertron, but also try to hold him back as well, long enough for the next director to give his Autobots and Decepticons (and Earthlings and Quintessons and whomever else) their opportunities to get ready whilst fending one another off.In this way, the whole story does have a natural lifespan, but it's also freeform.

Regarding directors:
I think it would be beneficially interesting and useful if individual directors & writers had a level of freedom regarding the amount of films they PROPOSED to make and the context of the film type- for instance, one director (or writer team) might be free to at least propose a trilogy, another a duology, and another a single feature film. I would personally consider the storytelling succesful as long as it was moving forward.The highest echelons of movie creators, in this way, could quickly end up with a lot of optional material to chop & change & string together into a production program of sorts, setting them up for years into the future, and even hotswap it out during times of crisis.

Regarding characters:
I suggest that the existing version of Megatron as the scarfaced, vagrant Phantom of the opera, still as sinister and dangerous as ever but now hidden and operating from a distance with intent to regain his old standing via other agents could be a very useful mid to long term plot tool covering multiple future stories-that is, heal Megatron, but don't heal him too fast.Wins here and losses there could play on viewer anticipations very effectively and keep the idea of every ending being a happy ending in a state of turbulence-thus generating a true saga if not the next,dare I say it, space opera?.Don't tell me the Movieverse doesn't have the potential for a space opera in it?!?

A non-combat oriented Autobot poplulation on Earth,(or the vicinity of), alongside the combat population, could be a powerful long term subplot driver, as the Decepticons would naturally wish to eradicate or enslave anything resembling an Autobot city.Machinations of Megatron (amongst others) to lure the military Autobots away from the settlement in order to then wipe it out or assimilate it could keep viewers stressing & biting nails over events and permit cliffhanger endings from film to film, especially if some Autobots begin to reproduce.Creches of Autobot 'children' growing into Gangs of adolescent Autobot Hotbloods,desperately needed to be kept alive long enough to mature and enter the thinning Autobot fighting ranks, could be a great storytelling aide.

An eventual son (or daughter)of Optimus Prime could be a very effective story device. Not only would the child gradually grow "up" from film to film, it would also be a logical target for assassination, together with its' "Mother", especially whilst younger.A film where the child is eventally actually killed could have the same impact as a full on reboot if the direction of a reboot was desired or deemed necessary.Bays' team has already set the Bar with Jazz: Transformers can die, and shouldn't come back, no matter how painful the loss.

I personally strongly encourage the eventual reunion of Sideswipe with his brother Sunstreaker, (and if later desired, "their other brother", Hotshot, if the gladiator twins' spotlight needed retouching further down the line). I believe the import of Sunstreaker would touch both sales and fan feedback positively.Sentimentally, I would prefer to see these two either die together or survive together.

Rant:
I've already discussed my personal (and slightly fanatical) feelings that for the existing state of Transformers films, a reboot (as opposed to just continuing the natural progression of the story to date) is absolutely unrequired, the absolute murder of something in perfect health, and a cover up for bad decisions taken at the beginning of events that lead to it.Even if the health of TF films actually fails at some later time,it will fail gradually, and in a way obvious enough to detect quickly. The reboot, especially if undisguised as a reboot, will always be the easy way out based on the existing state of TF films, especially since the existing state of film health is actively looking outwards with intent to predict or detect and then avoid unforeseen failure of health in the movies as a product line.
Rant over.

I naturally assume that what I wish for myself is what I should wish for all TF fans and the TFs themselves, and those were my two Energon points.

Have fun with this thread.

Simple answer.

"I'm just a fan, you're the experts in entertainment"

Burn wrote:Simple answer.

"I'm just a fan, you're the experts in entertainment"

That's a given.

I'd tell them that these are the greatest movies ever conceived by the human race. And that they where my inspiration to become my own movie director! To make my own movies. And I'd tell Bay that his style of directing is where I got my inspiration from. And I'd tell them that anyone who thinks differently are underdeveloped, unevolved, assholes who only see what they want to see. Just sayin.

Autobot Smoketreader wrote:

Burn wrote:Simple answer.

"I'm just a fan, you're the experts in entertainment"

That's a given.

And to clarify, it's not my place to tell them how to do their job. But if they asked, eh, "you're doing a good enough job".

SlyTF1 wrote:I'd tell them that these are the greatest movies ever conceived by the human race. And that they where my inspiration to become my own movie director! To make my own movies. And I'd tell Bay that his style of directing is where I got my inspiration from. And I'd tell them that anyone who thinks differently are underdeveloped, unevolved, assholes who only see what they want to see. Just sayin.

Sly, this is your last chance. Curb the language. I've pulled you up on it before. Seriously, you can easily express yourself without resorting to profanity.

This website is visited by children, we're trying to keep it as clean for them as possible.

Trust me, I swear a lot but when i'm on the forums or out in public I tone it down. It's not that hard.

I would simply ask them "what are you going to improve in the next film" I personally would love to see a "saga" of Star Wa- I mean Transformers movies in the future with their own stories leading up to a point (NOT Unicron).

Hmm...my opinion.
They suck and you should all be ashamed of the mutilation that has been done!

I'm kidding. That is out of humor.

Okay...well let me think...
How about...
To the moviemakers:
Thanks for entertaining me, and thanks for letting me rediscover the hobby I never really held onto before. I'd love to see a few more parts of the series myself, but I'm just a fan. You guys are the experts at the business, so do whatever you think is best for the series. Don't give a slag about the fans, because it is not their place, or mine, to tell you how to do your job. The fandom doesn't run the show (even though sometimes some of us like to think we do).
To Hasbro (on the product line aspect):
Thanks for putting Transformers back out there and in my face so I could rediscover it. I have enjoyed the many toys that have come out of the movie universe. I am looking forward to this upcoming movie, unlike numerous others you may have heard from already. I'll say what I said to the moviemakers; do whatever you think is best, because the fans don't run your company (although they keep it in business, I suppose). I plan on emptying my wallet this year on the upcoming toys, as well as some older movie toys I don't have yet.

*Scratching head*

The idea that these people are the experts is a given.

If the Movieverse was on a life support system run by a battery,
wouldn't anyone who is willing to spill blood in its defense against its' critics,
(who themselves want to see it healthy),
and was invited to partake in the examination of the options available regarding its' future direction whilst on the battery,
by the people who installed the battery,
even suggest eventually replacing the battery,
or plugging the life support machine into a wall?
Would you just say "you take care of it" and assume there's somebody monitoring the battery?
Or even feeding vitamins & stuff into the patient?

Oh well.
Thanks for the replies.

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Master Renegade wrote:

Simple answer.

"I'm just a fan, you're the experts in entertainment"

Except they're not, because everyone decides for themselves what they find entertaining. If these people were experts, they'd have managed to find a way to make it entertaining for EVERYONE. They clearly failed in that.

You can't please everyone. It's freaking impossible. I wish people would just freaking understand this!!!

SlyTF1 wrote:

Master Renegade wrote:

Simple answer.

"I'm just a fan, you're the experts in entertainment"

Except they're not, because everyone decides for themselves what they find entertaining. If these people were experts, they'd have managed to find a way to make it entertaining for EVERYONE. They clearly failed in that.

You can't please everyone. It's freaking impossible. I wish people would just freaking understand this!!!

How can you slagging please absolutely everyone? It's a matter of opinion! Everyone has differing opinions. You defied your first sentence with your second and third Master Renegade.
By the way, when my parents went to see the first movie, they said the entire audience in the theater applauded at the end. So someone tell me why that's bad.
Also, I watched both movies with my father recently and he said on both of the movies after watching them: "Those movies are timeless".

SlyTF1 wrote:

Master Renegade wrote:

Simple answer.

"I'm just a fan, you're the experts in entertainment"

Except they're not, because everyone decides for themselves what they find entertaining. If these people were experts, they'd have managed to find a way to make it entertaining for EVERYONE. They clearly failed in that.

You can't please everyone. It's freaking impossible. I wish people would just freaking understand this!!!

The fact that everyone can't be pleased is a given.Let's each assume that this is something taken into consideration by everyone by now.
Let's each one of us please try to keep our tempers in check, fighting isn't worth it.

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Master Renegade wrote:If you follow the idea that a perfect version of anything is possible, then there is a possibility for a perfect piece of entertainment.

There is no perfect version of anything. Everything is screwed up in it's own special way.

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Master Renegade wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:You can't please everyone. It's freaking impossible. I wish people would just freaking understand this!!!

I never mentioned pleasing everyone, I mentioned entertaining everyone. I can be entertained by things that don't please me.

Regardless, you clearly missed the intent of my comment, and are unaware of the philosophy behind it. Given some of your earlier remarks in this topic, I hardly find that surprising, so I shall explain where I was coming from in making that remark.

If you follow the idea that a perfect version of anything is possible, then there is a possibility for a perfect piece of entertainment. Such a thing would, by definition, entertain everyone, without exception. Those who could pull that off would in fact be experts at entertainment. Any who fail to do so would be subject to the opinions of individuals.

Mr. Bay and company failed to create the perfect piece of entertainment, and therefore are not experts at entertainment.

They did, however, create a financially successful movie. This may not make them entertainment experts, but it does make them rich.

How can something entertain everyone? How can one person declare the possibility of perfection? Perfection (or beauty) is simply in the eye of the beholder. In order to prove something is perfect, I would say you would have to find every single person who has seen the piece in question, and have them testify that they believe the piece is perfect, without flaw. To me, then, if perfection is possible in entertainment, then every single television production company, movie maker, and music record company that has ever been has failed at their job. And from that point of view, Hasbro has also obviously failed as a company. I believe perfection is only a matter of personal opinion, and perfection cannot be proved as a fact unless every person in the world agrees on the perfection.

I believe the perspective some of us see is that "experts" are those who have knowledge, experience, and education in their fields. For example, I can't go out and just direct a movie right now, or right a good script, or make a CGI model of a complex robot, but Michael Bay and the members of his team can because they possess those abilities.

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Master Renegade wrote:Ask Plato how he could declare the possibility of perfection. He proposed the idea that for everything that exists, a perfect form of it existed somewhere. I simply modify the idea to include the mere possibility. The perfect circle, the perfect chair, the perfect piece of entertainment. The fact that one may never experience perfection doesn't mean it's impossible to achieve. And while you may never be able to prove perfection, it is possible to disprove it, simply by having one person point out one flaw that they have noticed.

Now, while "expert" and "experience" share the same origin, having experience doesn't automatically make someone an expert. Being successful doesn't make someone an expert. I find that to be a term that is thrown around too easily, and applied to many people who seem to have no idea what they're doing. You could call governors, writers, pilots, economists, etc... experts, but I've seen plenty of governors screw up their government and plenty of economists screw up the economy.

Mr. Bay and company are successful financially, there's no disputing that, but I would dispute that they are experts in their fields. After all, I possess skills as a writer, as an artist, as a cook, as a computer repairman, and I have experience with all of them, but I am hardly am expert in any of them.

1. Ah...I get it now. I suppose I shouldn't have gone with the word "impossible", but maybe "possible, but more unlikely than likely to be achieved". While perfection is possible, I believe it is too much to ask for it day to day...it is too uncommon to demand from someone or something. It seems to me that you believe that anything that fails to satisfy or entertain one or more people is a failure, so everyone must be entertained by it...so that it is perfect...to be a success. This perspective is unrealistic and far-fetched to me, but that is my opinion. I believe success is for the creator of the thing in question to decide, not the witness or receiver of the creation.
2. On the expert thing...I'll take back experience and education. Let's focus on "knowledge". I think that's how I would personally describe the requirements of an expert. Someone with vast knowledge of a particular field is an expert to me...a person you would ask for assistance in whatever they have knowledge. Someone who really knows what they're doing.
Maybe I define things technically rather than philosophically or personally...I don't know, but it might explain why I'm studying to be a mechanical engineer.

I think it is amazing that people expect to have every dream realized and every fantasy come to life with these movies. They are mainstream motion pictures. It has to sell a certain amount of tickets to be profitable and actually be made in the first place.

If I had a chance to speak with Michael Bay, in particular, I would actually tell him that I thought the 1st movie was great and it captured my imagination all over again. I would tell him that I thought RoTF could have been more entertaining for me personally, but it was a good movie overall. I would actually tell Mike that I think he did a good job of directing a few shows that have brought a major interest of mine to the general public, and I appreciate it.

I don't expect a movie to make all my dreams come true. If that was what I got, I would know that I was the only person that bought that ticket.......then I would wake up from my dream......and once again adapt to another day in a world that I am not the center of.

Master Renegade wrote:

Simple answer.

"I'm just a fan, you're the experts in entertainment"

Except they're not, because everyone decides for themselves what they find entertaining. If these people were experts, they'd have managed to find a way to make it entertaining for EVERYONE. They clearly failed in that.

I like how you quoted that but then ignored my further elaboration on the statement thus taking me out of context.

But as far as them being experts? Yes they are. I wouldn't have the faintest idea how to direct a movie, do special effects, or even write a script.

Burn wrote:

Master Renegade wrote:

Simple answer.

"I'm just a fan, you're the experts in entertainment"

Except they're not, because everyone decides for themselves what they find entertaining. If these people were experts, they'd have managed to find a way to make it entertaining for EVERYONE. They clearly failed in that.

I like how you quoted that but then ignored my further elaboration on the statement thus taking me out of context.

But as far as them being experts? Yes they are. I wouldn't have the faintest idea how to direct a movie, do special effects, or even write a script.

I can agree with you entirely Burn, but I believe his definition of an expert differs from yours (and mine).

Master Renegade wrote:Mr. Bay and company failed to create the perfect piece of entertainment, and therefore are not experts at entertainment.

So...he means that Bay and company have to create a "perfect" piece of entertainment to be considered "experts" in their field. Make of that what you will.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

Burn wrote:

Master Renegade wrote:

Simple answer.

"I'm just a fan, you're the experts in entertainment"

Except they're not, because everyone decides for themselves what they find entertaining. If these people were experts, they'd have managed to find a way to make it entertaining for EVERYONE. They clearly failed in that.

I like how you quoted that but then ignored my further elaboration on the statement thus taking me out of context.

But as far as them being experts? Yes they are. I wouldn't have the faintest idea how to direct a movie, do special effects, or even write a script.

I can agree with you entirely Burn, but I believe his definition of an expert differs from yours (and mine).

Master Renegade wrote:Mr. Bay and company failed to create the perfect piece of entertainment, and therefore are not experts at entertainment.

So...he means that Bay and company have to create a "perfect" piece of entertainment to be considered "experts" in their field. Make of that what you will.

That would mean no one has ever been an expert at anything.

Evil_the_Nub wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

Burn wrote:

Master Renegade wrote:

Simple answer.

"I'm just a fan, you're the experts in entertainment"

Except they're not, because everyone decides for themselves what they find entertaining. If these people were experts, they'd have managed to find a way to make it entertaining for EVERYONE. They clearly failed in that.

I like how you quoted that but then ignored my further elaboration on the statement thus taking me out of context.

But as far as them being experts? Yes they are. I wouldn't have the faintest idea how to direct a movie, do special effects, or even write a script.

I can agree with you entirely Burn, but I believe his definition of an expert differs from yours (and mine).

Master Renegade wrote:Mr. Bay and company failed to create the perfect piece of entertainment, and therefore are not experts at entertainment.

So...he means that Bay and company have to create a "perfect" piece of entertainment to be considered "experts" in their field. Make of that what you will.

That would mean no one has ever been an expert at anything.

I know.
That's what confuses me.

I'd say what I normally say about the movies. Nothing changes. If someone is complaining, that's just one person. Some more, so what? When it comes to it, Bay and company made a mediocre movie at best, and came away with millions. They're not going to change their methods.

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