The Energon Pub

First off, let me say I'm not trying to start a political debate here. I've just got a thought that's been bugging me for the past few months and I need to vent and discuss.

I really liked Rise Against's "Audience of One". I bought the album and listened, but have become fairly dissapointed. Almost every single song has their political views woven into the various songs and I became upset to the point of writing a complaint to the group over "Hero of War". I'm upset by the song because of how it starts off with a very moving and patriotic theme, but he quickly starts talking about all the horrible things a soldier "supposedly" does. I'm irritated by this because of my families background with war and the wars my ancestors have served in. I know soldiers have in fact received flack for doing some shady things, but this is going a bit too far if you ask me by using it for the anti-war bandwagon.

I got a chance to see the music video for "Audience of One" the other day and became irritated by all the politics they tried to weave into the video. I know it's all about artistic interpretation, but what the heck does that song have to do with politics? The song felt completely out of place with the entire video.

After reading about them, it's become apparent that when they try to write their songs, they have very skewed views on various political issues and they want you to see it their way.

Now politics aside, here's my question: Should politics be left out of music?

My answer is pretty straightforward. I listen to music to be entertained and to relax while doing whatever. I don't want to hear about your political views in the form of a song. When I buy a album, I want see the artistic freedoms taken by a band, but I don't want to hear a soap box rant in musical form.

What do you guys think?

Also, if the mods feel that this thread should be locked then I'm perfectly fine with that. I'm just curious as to what others views are on the music world.

I think if a song is meant to be strictly political then people can weave as much politics into their songs as they like. Other than that I think it should be left alone for the most part, Me myself, I tend to listen to video game soundtracks and orchestral pieces, so there's not a lot of politics to be found.

Short answer is, no.

Music is about expression, and if artists feel the need to express their opinion on a subject be it political, religious, or whatever, then they have the right to do so.

If you stop them from doing that, then why not stop people from standing up and voicing their opinion in general?

And if you don't like it, well it's not like you can't turn it off or go listen to something.

They are as entitled to their opinion as you are to yours; it's best to find some thing else to listen to.

No, politics should be an allowable subject. Just like any other subject is allowable, and if we're going to attack politics in music (i.e. freedom of speech), I think there are much worse things to sing about. GWAR and Cannibal Corpse touch on some way more offensive subjects (to this day, I don't know how a band can write a song about killing a baby inside the womb and then using the fetus as a condom, but that's freedom of speech for you).

Besides, if politics is out, then bands like Megadeth, System of a Down, and RATM would have one less thing to sing about. And do you want to be the one to give the news to Zach de la Rocha?

But while we're on the subject of banning song topics, can we ban love? Holy crap, I'm sick of hearing about Celine Dion. "I love dis, I love dat, I love zee world!" Just--shut--up.

Burn wrote:Short answer is, no.

Music is about expression, and if artists feel the need to express their opinion on a subject be it political, religious, or whatever, then they have the right to do so.

If you stop them from doing that, then why not stop people from standing up and voicing their opinion in general?

And if you don't like it, well it's not like you can't turn it off or go listen to something.

I'm with him with out Political driven Songs and artist we wouldn't have a ton of Jimmy Hendrix Songs, RAtM, John Lennon.

No, if it was left out of music a good few songs would not exist and we'd be hearing the same old nothing.
This is universal for any topic in music.

robofreak wrote:Should politics be left out of music?

You can't actually stop anyone from doing that. It's freedom of speech, people can sing about whatever they want.

I have found that if someone is singing about something most people are unhappy with they will not do it long since it does not make them money. One thing that would annoy me far more then getting a song that had a political theme is going to see a band for the music and actually get a political rally instead. That is annoying.

Should it be? I don't think it's entirely possible, really. A good song (as in lyric-wise) or a good poem needs to be able to touch people. That means it needs to go some place deep, some place unsafe or possibly uncomfortable for its audience. I'm not a songwriter, but I do write, and I'd rather have someone violently disagree with what I say than be completely indifferent to it. If nothing else, they've been forced maybe to think about what they believe and be able to argue it or articulate it.

In your case, you started with a 'gut' reaction--I don't like this song. Then in the process of figuring out why you didn't like that song, you discovered those reasons. So, you learned something about yourself and your values. Sounds pretty good to me!

Now, that being said, I really don't like the too-timely political stuff. If you've ever read 18th Century British Lit, you'll know why. They did lots and lots of up-to-the-minute political satire, which I'm sure was just devastatingly good back then, but now, you get about six lines of text, and two pages of footnote trying to explain what the text is referring to. Overtly political songs have a real 'date stamp' to them--in a few years *at longest*, they're incomprehensible to most people.

But whether or not an artist should try to speak to his time or to eternity is another topic, I guess.

HK

No, it shouldn't. A lot of Country Music songs like "American Ride, Hate Me if You Want, Love Me if You Can" by Toby Keith have strongly polictal and social messages in them.

Cyberstrike wrote:No, it shouldn't. A lot of Country Music songs like "American Ride, Hate Me if You Want, Love Me if You Can" by Toby Keith have strongly polictal and social messages in them.

because toby kieth is a great role model

Name_Violation wrote:

Cyberstrike wrote:No, it shouldn't. A lot of Country Music songs like "American Ride, Hate Me if You Want, Love Me if You Can" by Toby Keith have strongly polictal and social messages in them.

because toby kieth is a great role model

"Cause we'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way." What could you POSSIBLY find wrong with that?

HK, jingoism rocks!

hellkitty wrote:

Name_Violation wrote:

Cyberstrike wrote:No, it shouldn't. A lot of Country Music songs like "American Ride, Hate Me if You Want, Love Me if You Can" by Toby Keith have strongly polictal and social messages in them.

because toby kieth is a great role model

"Cause we'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way." What could you POSSIBLY find wrong with that?

HK, jingoism rocks!

yeah, let me just play that song during nascar while i drink budweiser that i opened with the shotgun from my wedding cuz my wifey was preggers. Am I patriotic enough yet? Maybe not. I can actually spell patriotic. thanks toby. thats the image us americans have from hee-haw artists like you.

don't get me wrong i like some country, gimme some hank williams (jr and sr), patsy cline, some good stuff. not the "how do you get your dog back, your girl back, and your truck fixed? you play it backwards" country music, or the "America!!! F*ck Yeah!" country.

also hee-haw was a good show.

as far as politics and music go I just have one question

Can you really imagine Bono with a day-job? what would he do?

Cyberstrike wrote:No, it shouldn't. A lot of Country Music songs like "American Ride, Hate Me if You Want, Love Me if You Can" by Toby Keith have strongly polictal and social messages in them.

That's not really an argument.

Name_Violation wrote:Can you really imagine Bono with a day-job? what would he do?

Bono's day consists of two things:

1. Make bad music (I don't like U2)
2. Act superior to everyone.

Name_Violation wrote:

hellkitty wrote:

Name_Violation wrote:

Cyberstrike wrote:No, it shouldn't. A lot of Country Music songs like "American Ride, Hate Me if You Want, Love Me if You Can" by Toby Keith have strongly polictal and social messages in them.

because toby kieth is a great role model

"Cause we'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way." What could you POSSIBLY find wrong with that?

HK, jingoism rocks!

yeah, let me just play that song during nascar while i drink budweiser that i opened with the shotgun from my wedding cuz my wifey was preggers. Am I patriotic enough yet? Maybe not. I can actually spell patriotic. thanks toby. thats the image us americans have from hee-haw artists like you.

don't get me wrong i like some country, gimme some hank williams (jr and sr), patsy cline, some good stuff. not the "how do you get your dog back, your girl back, and your truck fixed? you play it backwards" country music, or the "America!!! F*ck Yeah!" country.

also hee-haw was a good show.

as far as politics and music go I just have one question

Can you really imagine Bono with a day-job? what would he do?

Have you heard "American Ride" or "Hate Me If You Want, Love Me If You Can" those songs are very thoughtful and respectful of polictal ideas. "The Angry American" is what it what is a reaction song to 9/11 that about 90% of Americans (even a "bleeding heart Liberal" like myself) felt at the time and it's nowhere near as bad as Hank Williams Jr's "The South is Gonna Do It Again" which is one of the radical songs of all times.

OK lets tell artists that they can no longer put politics into their music, but while we're at it lets remove, religion (I don't want to hear what you believe in), sex (I don't give a f**k about who/what you had/have/want to sleep with), countries (I don't care if you're born in the USA so shut up about it) and love for the reasons Me, Grimlock stated.
What is left there left to sing about? Oh yea leave out kids and cute fluffy animals too they annoy me.

Obviously it's impractical to try to seperate politics from anything.
That's like trying to remove neutrons from all physical matter in the universe. Politics is omnipresent.

But, to put a spin on it, should music be allowed to be used for propaganda purposes?

Nowadays it seems like every band has a message, from Michael Jacksons overtures to equality, to Green Day's capitalisation on ignorant and dissafected American youth, to the white supremacist overtones of Skrewdriver.

Music, being dominated by corporate interests in a way that virtually no other media on earth is, represents a fairly unique platform where a message can be delivered without the possibility of being challenged.

In most other arenas ideologies can be discussed and dissected, in music there is generally no dialogue.

Do you think that music that is overtly political in nature should be labelled as such?
Or that it should be restricted to channels where a number of differing opnions are presented? (presidential candidate rap-battle anyone?)

Name_Violation wrote:

hellkitty wrote:

Name_Violation wrote:

Cyberstrike wrote:No, it shouldn't. A lot of Country Music songs like "American Ride, Hate Me if You Want, Love Me if You Can" by Toby Keith have strongly polictal and social messages in them.

because toby kieth is a great role model

"Cause we'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way." What could you POSSIBLY find wrong with that?

HK, jingoism rocks!

yeah, let me just play that song during nascar while i drink budweiser that i opened with the shotgun from my wedding cuz my wifey was preggers. Am I patriotic enough yet? Maybe not. I can actually spell patriotic. thanks toby. thats the image us americans have from hee-haw artists like you.

don't get me wrong i like some country, gimme some hank williams (jr and sr), patsy cline, some good stuff. not the "how do you get your dog back, your girl back, and your truck fixed? you play it backwards" country music, or the "America!!! F*ck Yeah!" country.

also hee-haw was a good show.

as far as politics and music go I just have one question

Can you really imagine Bono with a day-job? what would he do?

Grrr... Come on guys don't make me stick up for Cyberstrike, nobody wants that.

HJ wrote:But, to put a spin on it, should music be allowed to be used for propaganda purposes?

Isn't it already? I guess not. Just feels that way sometimes.

Do you think that music that is overtly political in nature should be labelled as such?
Or that it should be restricted to channels where a number of differing opnions are presented?

Fairness Doctrine here we come.


Anyways, on topic...

Enjoy you're freedom of choice buds. If you listen to music for enjoyment and don't enjoy political music... don't listen to it.

Yeah it sucks when one of your favorite bands starts going in a direction that you thinks sucks (Metallica in my case) but they have a right to do whatever they want and you have the right not to buy it.

AS others have pointed out as soon as we start down a slippery slope of banning subjects/ideas/speech there's no end because everything offends someone.

I just wish more people could understand that concept when it's applied to other areas not just music or art.

I don't think they shouldn't mix, but I wish musicians on both sides of the spectrum would stop acting like they're friggin experts on the subject.

If politics were removed from songs then what would people sing about? Love? Urrrrggggghhhhh! And if they get too loving that would lead to peace and then that would get political. Any strong feelings in songs can be seen as political. Remove politics from songs and you might as well listen to an untuned radio. Even this thread is political. It all depends on what you percieve as political. There are not only anti-war songs out there, there are pro-war, anti-drugs, pro-drugs. Music is about expression and feeling. And if they restricted politics from songs, would they also remove anything that had political meaning from the market? The music business would crumble.

I don't mind politics in music, as long as I agree with the politics.

Well I think as freedom of expression, you should be able to put whatever you want in your music.
But having said that, it still makes me roll my eyes when I hear something supporting or bashing a certain politcal figure when it's played on mainstream radio.