The Energon Pub

Warning: Rant

It seems to me that a lot of characters I am hoping for in this movie are being vetoed by people for all the wrong reasons. My concern is that (maybe in a million years) they are still listening to the fans and it could negatively affect the movie.

There is of course the whole Arcee issue, which has been discussed ad-nusaeum. I'll just say that I think a pink motorcycle TF would be dumb, but who know how they'll pull it off. She's honestly not what I'm worried about.


Three characters in particular seem to be bashed again and again by fans, yet they are all iconic characters that would sell the movie and bring back memories for all the casual moviegoers who played with TFs as kids.

These are the people I hang out with on a daily basis, and they all think that was Soundwave in the first movie. I don't correct them because when you unlearn all our knowledge and traits as fans, you realize it easily could have been him. They'll get a surprise in 2, but whatever.

I guess it just pains me to see these characters' names drug through the mud, because I see them being so cool on screen.


Dinobots - I've said my idea for the Dinobots several times, but nobody seemed to notice, so here it is:

They should be military vehicles that turn into vaguely dinosoid robot modes. I honestly don't see a problem with this because the TF's look alien enough already.

Someone else suggested triple changers, which I also think is a good idea. If these movies aren't G1 as so many people say, why are so many people saying they have to turn into dinosaurs?

What I like about the Dinobots is that they are a crack team of Autobot hardasses. Grimlock is reckless and mean, and the others are even worse, except for Sludge who is a closet softie. Even with minimal characterization, that would be fun and cool no matter what they turn into.


Ultra Magnus - I'm starting to hear the bad talk about him now. People say he's a weak Prime, he's monotonous, he'd be boring, but they fail to think of him in Michael Bay terms.

For one, he's big. He turns into an even bigger truck than Prime. That has to account for something.

But what I really like about him is the rivalry he could bring. I'm thinking RiD Magnus here. He was a jerk. He fought with Prime. That's what we need I think. A rivalry going on in the Autobot ranks. Why would that not be cool?

I'm not saying they should combine into Omega Prime, but hey, I'd be a fan if they did. Which brings me to...


Constructicons - I'm hearing even more flak about them than Magnus. Namely the whole Devastator name thing. It's the whole "not G1" thing again. People are always talking about these movies not being G1, so why are we so hung up on the G1 Devastator character? "There will be two Devastators!!111" I've seen that twice now, and it's silly.

I mean it when I say that the Constructicons don't even have to combine into a whole new character. Why can't they just combine and be done with it? The first movie was so ambiguous that nobody but us realize that was Frenzy and not Soundwave. I think the general public will see the Constructicons combine and say "Oh yeah! I remember that guy! Cool!" They won't care what his name is as long as it's not something silly like Prime. They won't care if he has no name.

Honestly, I'm surprised that people who are so in love with Bay's loud action in the movie, are so adamant against a combiner of all things. Yeah, we could have Superion or something, but he is not iconic like the Constructicons are.

And as for the issue of them being too numerous, I say that's silly too. There don't have to be six, for starters. Bonecrusher is already out. Hell, there could just be four. And as for characterization, I'm guessing we won't be seeing to much of that anyway. I saw a post that said if they were in the movie, there would only be room for Starscream and Barricade. Why can't the Constructicons be relegated to the background for a lot of the movie? Who says they have to be center-stage?

I honestly think four or so construction vehicles combining into a giant robot would be the high point of TF2. I think people are crazy to veto that because of a silly name mistake in the first movie.


So there it is. Thank you for reading my rant. I needed to clear the air. I'd stickie it if I could. So many different ideas is well and good, but it seems like a lot of people are not really looking at a way these characters could be done.

Of course, it's probably too late even now, but I had to clear the air, like I said.

I'm all for Magnus. They just better not cheapen out and do him as an all white variant of Prime solely for toy purposes.

mosh magnus wrote:I'm all for Magnus. They just better not cheapen out and do him as an all white variant of Prime solely for toy purposes.

I don't think we have to worry about that. Going into CG modeling myself, I can tell you first hand that those guys would never pass up the oppurtunity to design cool new stuff.

I don't like the idea of Magnus being a jerk
I love magnus cause hes just like prime but bigger and without leadership skill
his transformation would also be really complex.
Optimus prime and THEN a trailer
AND they have to keep it G1 while making it look alien too

I kinda want Wheeljack and Jazz 2
Jazz wasnt in the movie enough and hes like one of the most popular G1 characters
He's one of the people who didnt die in the 1986 movie

I don't like Prowl that much but isn't he kind of one those guys who don't always agree with prime?
Plus if barricade didnt die we could get a Good cop vs Bad cop battle

I think 4 constructicons is enough

Dinobots are tricky
how can we do them right?

and how can we put all these guys in?

First of all, I'm all for a lot of new characters, but I want the sides to be more even.

It makes no sense to have wheeljack, hot rod, prowl, and then the decepticons get Thundercracker, soundwave, a gelstat combinder- giving the decepticons all the power houses.

ultra magnus as a poor mans prime is fine by me becasue Prime can't do everything alone, having a powerhouse like UM in in another general area in the world could work.

as for the one to challenge prime, I would pick Grimlock as the arrogant one. Grimlock leads his own team and they do what they want, leaving Prime as the one to TRY to set them straight. In a plot twist, I would love to see the dinobots as traitors, meaning they would rather overthrow prime, becasue they think thier ideals are better.

ultra tron wrote:First of all, I'm all for a lot of new characters, but I want the sides to be more even.

It makes no sense to have wheeljack, hot rod, prowl, and then the decepticons get Thundercracker, soundwave, a gelstat combinder- giving the decepticons all the power houses.

ultra magnus as a poor mans prime is fine by me becasue Prime can't do everything alone, having a powerhouse like UM in in another general area in the world could work.

as for the one to challenge prime, I would pick Grimlock as the arrogant one. Grimlock leads his own team and they do what they want, leaving Prime as the one to TRY to set them straight. In a plot twist, I would love to see the dinobots as traitors, meaning they would rather overthrow prime, becasue they think thier ideals are better.

That would be better. You're right. Either way, they are great characters.

Well I dont have a problem with Ultramagnus I think he would be great.I would prefer to see him act a little like the RID UM thou.

I really dont see a problem with doing the Dinobots and keeping them close to the G1 comics origin.Maybe not five of them just 3 at first or maybe just Grimlock.Think for a sec.....A group of rogue Autobots lead by Grimlock leave in search of Megatron cause they believe that such a treat should not be left flying around the universe unchecked.They crash land on earth around the time of the Dino's and take their forms for any one of a few reasons.While trying to track Megatron they also fall trew the ice or something like that.For the rest of the film only Grimlock and maybe tow others are found and revived.

As much as I loved the Constructicons and Devastator I dont think they would be right for the film.....to begin with I dont think it was a mistake that the name was used in the first film.They told us that lie to quited us down.I think Bay did it so he would have an excuese to not use the character in the 2nd film.Think about it he also killed Bonecrusher in the movie...I dont think it was a cowinsadence.He doesnt seem to like it when he is pushed into useing characters or actors that may not have been his first choices.
I think that the Combaticons would be a better choice for a Bay film.....he seems to like useing army vehicals in his films to begin with and it would also fit in with the other designs for the cons we already seen in the first film....they woyld only have to compleaty change Blastoff....a space shuttle would be way to big compaired to a chopper and a tank.This idea would also fit in with Bays way of useing small units.It looks like almost all the cons in the first film got killed.The others could have been caught inbetween films so Screamer comes back with the Combaticons and maybe Soundwave comes to stop him with 2 or 3 of his minions to find Megatron.

I don't know about the idea that Bay was cleverly avoiding having to use Devastator. I think you're looking too deeply into it.

Think about it. Construction vehicles are heavy, huge, and complicated. They make for perfect things to be transforming and causing havoc. I can see it now, the robots themselves are about as big as Devastator was in the cartoon, and then they go together, at least 100 feet high, if not higher, the loud noise, the random destruction that occurs when he moves an inch. How is that not Bay? Why would he avoid that?

I'm still so puzzled as to why people don't want this. It's ten-fold what we saw in the first movie. Giant robots turning into even gianter( ) robots, causing even more destruction, and it's being vetoed, on this forum? I'm not trying to dog anyones opinion, I'm just trying to understand the logic.

It's like saying you don't want any Decepticons in the movie because think about it, they make everything so black and white.

Dark Zarak wrote:I don't know about the idea that Bay was cleverly avoiding having to use Devastator. I think you're looking too deeply into it.

Think about it. Construction vehicles are heavy, huge, and complicated. They make for perfect things to be transforming and causing havoc. I can see it now, the robots themselves are about as big as Devastator was in the cartoon, and then they go together, at least 100 feet high, if not higher, the loud noise, the random destruction that occurs when he moves an inch. How is that not Bay? Why would he avoid that?

I see him avoiding it for one reason.....he doesnt like to be told what to do.He didnt like being told to use Cullen as Prime......the rest of the Bots to be used were pretty much out of his hands.3 of the cons were prechosen for him as well even thou he changed one of them he still had to go with a reconazable G1 name for him[Soundwave to Frenzy].Frank was almost shoved up his @$$ but he won that battle.He go's with Hugo Weaving who appears to have done his best to sound like Frank anyway and acording to Hugo Weaving in a interview I heard him do Bay wanted him to re-record his lines and was even asking him to do it up untill 4 weeks before the movie opened.I cant provide prof but any of the guys I talk to here will tell you that I'm not the type to make things up.So much of the film's creative choices were out of his hands and we all have heard that hes a bit of a dicktator that I could see him stricking back at those in power on this project in just the fasion I suggested.And besides their were no other mistakes of this type in the whole film.All the other kinds of mistakes in the film seemed to have more then one accurance.Editing being on the top of the list in incedents.Why is it that there are two mistakes that seem unrelated that could lead to the constructions not ever being in a Bay TF film.Whats the story theu gave us.....that one of the production teams didnt get the memo to change Dev's name to Brawl????Thats a weak one.Look at how long the film was in production.After a filmed shot is completed and added to the rest of the film one of the directers aid's and a producer are sopose to view it for mistakes.....how wasnt it caught then.And even after that Bay got a chance to view the finisher product before it went into mass production and knowing the nut he is he wouldnt have written a memo he would have grabed the guy responcable and chocked him like Homer does Bart well maybe not that exstream but he would have delivered the messege him self that the change had to be made.And why would he then allow the mistake to end up on the DVD release......it wouldnt be the first time that a home release had some dialog changes in it from the theartacl version and its deffinaly would be the first time he fixes up some of his mistakes with the home release.

He had way too many chances to fix the mistake if thats what it was.And he chose not to.To me that indecates that it was intensnal.

Like Zarak said, The bots can form into a big robot and not have a name. The whole bonecrusher, devastator name crap is really weak in itself. Its like saying that the people are so inept that they cant come up with a new name that would evoke the same responce as devastator.

I have no problem with UM, the Dino's or the Constructicons being in TF2. In fact, it might bring more people into the theater simply because it'll be a summer movie, and summer movies always have kick-ass special effects, and having a Robot T-Rex or 4 or 5 construction vehicles from a bigger robot would be tough to beat at the box office.
As for the whole Devatstor in the first movie deal, I'
m sure the writers can come up with a different name. How about "Constructicon"?

Powerglide or one of the arielbots like airraid or silverbolt.

The autobots reli need some type of aircraft

Your Magnus idea sounds perfect.

Electron wrote:Powerglide or one of the arielbots like airraid or silverbolt.

The autobots reli need some type of aircraft

Agreed. I'd vote for Powerglide. It would keep the Bots outnumbered, thus making them the underdogs.

Arcee What male would NOT want a female autobot? Arcee is a perfect choice for putting women in a more up-front role. She would be great to balance out Megan Fox. I wish they put her in the first movie.

Dinobots I have to agree that having metallic dinosaurs run around would be awesome. And the idea of them being military vehicles w/ dinosaur-ish robot modes is a sweet idea in my opinion. Grimlock would b emy first choice as a competitor for the Autobot leadership. OH, and by the way, Swoop is the weakest of the Dinobots, Sludge is the slowest.

Ultra Magnus Here is an awesome backup leader to Prime in my opinion. In G1 he did have the leadership skills, did not lack the self confidence like Rodimus, he just didn't like having the position. RID Magnus was the ONLY good character in that series (my opinion of course) and I would actually entertain the thought of him being in competition for the leadership as well. Heck, I'd love it even more if there was a 3-way death match like Megatron had to do against Starscream, the Triple Changers, and Devastator.

Constructicons What better way to introduce combiner technology than w/ the original combiner team? The only other combiner that sets a standard in my mind would the Predacons. Now that would be an awesome sight to see! But as for the 'mistake' in the movie we can only speculate how intentional it was. Personally I think the dead characters can be brought back to complete the Constructicons and even the Combaticons. I would so love to see the Dinobots duke it out w/ them on the big screen.

Anyways, something that very few people don't seem to remember, especially in light of the movie's view on this, Cybertronians don't die. They go into stasis lock, and can be revived through repairs or transfer to a new body. This has been consistent throughout American and Japanese cartoons.

Would'nt the original combiner team be Reflector?

Blackstreak wrote:Arcee What male would NOT want a female autobot? Arcee is a perfect choice for putting women in a more up-front role. She would be great to balance out Megan Fox. I wish they put her in the first movie.

Dinobots I have to agree that having metallic dinosaurs run around would be awesome. And the idea of them being military vehicles w/ dinosaur-ish robot modes is a sweet idea in my opinion. Grimlock would b emy first choice as a competitor for the Autobot leadership. OH, and by the way, Swoop is the weakest of the Dinobots, Sludge is the slowest.

Ultra Magnus Here is an awesome backup leader to Prime in my opinion. In G1 he did have the leadership skills, did not lack the self confidence like Rodimus, he just didn't like having the position. RID Magnus was the ONLY good character in that series (my opinion of course) and I would actually entertain the thought of him being in competition for the leadership as well. Heck, I'd love it even more if there was a 3-way death match like Megatron had to do against Starscream, the Triple Changers, and Devastator.

Constructicons What better way to introduce combiner technology than w/ the original combiner team? The only other combiner that sets a standard in my mind would the Predacons. Now that would be an awesome sight to see! But as for the 'mistake' in the movie we can only speculate how intentional it was. Personally I think the dead characters can be brought back to complete the Constructicons and even the Combaticons. I would so love to see the Dinobots duke it out w/ them on the big screen.

Anyways, something that very few people don't seem to remember, especially in light of the movie's view on this, Cybertronians don't die. They go into stasis lock, and can be revived through repairs or transfer to a new body. This has been consistent throughout American and Japanese cartoons.

Electron wrote:Would'nt the original combiner team be Reflector?

Blackstreak wrote:Arcee What male would NOT want a female autobot? Arcee is a perfect choice for putting women in a more up-front role. She would be great to balance out Megan Fox. I wish they put her in the first movie.

Dinobots I have to agree that having metallic dinosaurs run around would be awesome. And the idea of them being military vehicles w/ dinosaur-ish robot modes is a sweet idea in my opinion. Grimlock would b emy first choice as a competitor for the Autobot leadership. OH, and by the way, Swoop is the weakest of the Dinobots, Sludge is the slowest.

Ultra Magnus Here is an awesome backup leader to Prime in my opinion. In G1 he did have the leadership skills, did not lack the self confidence like Rodimus, he just didn't like having the position. RID Magnus was the ONLY good character in that series (my opinion of course) and I would actually entertain the thought of him being in competition for the leadership as well. Heck, I'd love it even more if there was a 3-way death match like Megatron had to do against Starscream, the Triple Changers, and Devastator.

Constructicons What better way to introduce combiner technology than w/ the original combiner team? The only other combiner that sets a standard in my mind would the Predacons. Now that would be an awesome sight to see! But as for the 'mistake' in the movie we can only speculate how intentional it was. Personally I think the dead characters can be brought back to complete the Constructicons and even the Combaticons. I would so love to see the Dinobots duke it out w/ them on the big screen.

Anyways, something that very few people don't seem to remember, especially in light of the movie's view on this, Cybertronians don't die. They go into stasis lock, and can be revived through repairs or transfer to a new body. This has been consistent throughout American and Japanese cartoons.

Oh yeah! Thanks for reminding 'cuz I did forget about them. Well, when I think of combiner technology I keep thinking big robots, not tiny little cameras.

<b>Personally, I think Magnus would be a bad idea for the next film because:</b>

* The average movie-going audience will look at him as just another Prime, due to his alt-form also being a truck.

* People will confuse him <i>with</i> Prime, because he's a truck too, and he also has a two-word name.

* If you have Ultra Magnus, then you HAVE to have Hot Rod & Prime HAS to die. Dramatically they form an important story point dealing with the "changing of the guard", with one character being groomed for the resposibility, and the other chosen by destiny.

* If you have Magnus AND Hot Rod and THEN add the Dinobots into the mix, it's too many characters disagreeing / challenging Prime's leadership and the whole point behind the idea would be lost in a glut of conflicting characters.

<b>Regarding the other characters:</b>

* I love Grimlock too, but giant, robotic dinosaurs would just be too out of place within the film's context. And so far, all movie based evidence suggests that the Bots can't replicate flesh / Organic matter (yet they seem to be fine with leather, but anyway). I believe this is the case with Skorpinok, as a burrowing creature on a mechanised world doesn't seem to make much sense.

* If we are going to see a combiner like Devestator, I'd prefer that rather gloss over 5 or so bit chararacters and have the audience go "Oh, ok - their trucks that turn into robots, that turn into bigger robots", have it so that the Gestalt IS the character, perhaps, given the attempt to maintain some approximate mass between forms - Devestator (or whoever), unable to find a suitably sized vehicle to scan, instead scans several, breaking down into a small fleet of vehicles sharing a common hive mind.

/end rant

Okay Dark Zarak only your favorite characters can be in the new flim or else the movie will be ruined forever and Arcee will single handily destroy the franchise if shes in it because shes
a female. And like the guy said before me,if theirs a gun in the first act,its going to be used before the last,so in effect Ultra Magnus=Hot Rod=Prime's death warrant.

Nice tone Astrotrain. Thanks buddy.

I know I can be a jerk on here sometimes. That's why I intentionally set out to make a polite thread about a subject that bugs me and tempts me to be sarcastic on the internet. Always good to see it reciprocated.

Sentry Prime wrote:* The average movie-going audience will look at him as just another Prime, due to his alt-form also being a truck.

That is the first arguement I've heard on it that makes sense.

Sentry Prime wrote:* People will confuse him <i>with</i> Prime, because he's a truck too, and he also has a two-word name.

Sadly, so does this one.

Sentry Prime wrote: * If you have Ultra Magnus, then you HAVE to have Hot Rod & Prime HAS to die. Dramatically they form an important story point dealing with the "changing of the guard", with one character being groomed for the resposibility, and the other chosen by destiny.

Astrotrain87 wrote:And like the guy said before me,if theirs a gun in the first act,its going to be used before the last,so in effect Ultra Magnus=Hot Rod=Prime's death warrant.

Who says? It's not G1. Why does that have to happen, just because it happened once? Ultra Magnus doesn't mean Hot Rod and Rodimus. What about RiD Magnus?

That's a pretty huge stretch to come up with a reason not have him in it.

Sentry Prime wrote:* If we are going to see a combiner like Devestator, I'd prefer that rather gloss over 5 or so bit chararacters and have the audience go "Oh, ok - their trucks that turn into robots, that turn into bigger robots", have it so that the Gestalt IS the character, perhaps, given the attempt to maintain some approximate mass between forms - Devestator (or whoever), unable to find a suitably sized vehicle to scan, instead scans several, breaking down into a small fleet of vehicles sharing a common hive mind.

That is a pretty damn good idea right there. High five.

Sentry Prime wrote:<b>Personally, I think Magnus would be a bad idea for the next film because:</b>

* The average movie-going audience will look at him as just another Prime, due to his alt-form also being a truck.

* People will confuse him <i>with</i> Prime, because he's a truck too, and he also has a two-word name.

* If you have Ultra Magnus, then you HAVE to have Hot Rod & Prime HAS to die. Dramatically they form an important story point dealing with the "changing of the guard", with one character being groomed for the resposibility, and the other chosen by destiny.

* If you have Magnus AND Hot Rod and THEN add the Dinobots into the mix, it's too many characters disagreeing / challenging Prime's leadership and the whole point behind the idea would be lost in a glut of conflicting characters.

<b>Regarding the other characters:</b>

* I love Grimlock too, but giant, robotic dinosaurs would just be too out of place within the film's context. And so far, all movie based evidence suggests that the Bots can't replicate flesh / Organic matter (yet they seem to be fine with leather, but anyway). I believe this is the case with Skorpinok, as a burrowing creature on a mechanised world doesn't seem to make much sense.

* If we are going to see a combiner like Devestator, I'd prefer that rather gloss over 5 or so bit chararacters and have the audience go "Oh, ok - their trucks that turn into robots, that turn into bigger robots", have it so that the Gestalt IS the character, perhaps, given the attempt to maintain some approximate mass between forms - Devestator (or whoever), unable to find a suitably sized vehicle to scan, instead scans several, breaking down into a small fleet of vehicles sharing a common hive mind.

/end rant

Where did you get that Prime HAS to die if there is an Ultra Magnus in the story? Prime and Magnus were both in RID and Prime didn’t die.
And just because UM is in it does not mean they have to have Kup and Hot Rod.

Just because UM is a truck doesn't mean he has to be the same exact peterbuilt design. If he is a car carrier, he can have the "cage" that holds the cars become his armor when he transforms.
BTW I seriously doubt that Bay would make UM look like a prime repaint (Remember BB being a camaro and not a Volkswagon?) Bay would leave UM out if he couldn't drastically change him somehow.

And about the dinobots, iF all five are in it I could see swoop dying, but sludge should be the one if any are weak enough to be stopped

Jazzz wrote:I kinda want Wheeljack and Jazz 2
Jazz wasnt in the movie enough and hes like one of the most popular G1 characters
He's one of the people who didnt die in the 1986 movie

Which is why he died in this movie. Jazz is dead. Mourn him, and let him go.

Savage wrote:

Jazzz wrote:I kinda want Wheeljack and Jazz 2
Jazz wasnt in the movie enough and hes like one of the most popular G1 characters
He's one of the people who didnt die in the 1986 movie

Which is why he died in this movie. Jazz is dead. Mourn him, and let him go.

Thank you. Let the dead characters stay dead please. Geez, sometimes I think fans are so afraid of new things that they can't seem to accept changes not just from series to series but from movie to movie! Really, you read people's character wishlists sometimes and alot of people basically want the first movie all over again (bring back Jazz, bring back Bonecrusher, bring back Brawl!)

Bring on the Combiners and triple changers!!!!