The Energon Pub

Nightscreech wrote:Am I the only Transformers fan here who thinks Star Wars sucks?

No.

But, just because some of you think it sucks, doesn't make it true.

Lucas may not be the best writer in the world, but the man IS a visionary, and his six chapter epic changed the world in many ways.

Some parts of it? Yes. Overrated.

But the moments that make you take notice, such as The Executioner chasing the Tantive IV as it screams across the screen on a scale we had never seen before? Not even close to being overrated. It makes your jaw drop each and every time, when you consider the budget and how it was made, long before the advent of CGI and digital special effects.

I'll admit, the stories aren't always solid, and some of the acting is downright terrible, no one denies that, but they're not enough to ruin Star Wars as a whole.

Each and every piece of the saga had moments that just weren't up to par, whether it was writing, acting, or special effects, but there was always moments that took your breath away and wowed, in each and every chapter. And those moments far outweighed the negatives.

Not every Transfan shares your opinion.

Rodimus Prime wrote:A bit testy today, are you, CP?

Always. Now and forever.

Skyfire77 wrote:The Clone Wars (3d) series though? Better writing and way better acting than all three Prequels combined IMHO.

The original trilogy is definately overrated. Episode 5 is the only one from the original trilogy that I like alot. Episode 1 is ok, (not better than 5) but 2 and 3 are my favorites. I liked the original SW Clonewars more than the CG one. General G was freking awesome in it!

Well...

The following is my opinion... but it's shared by others. So it might have some basis in fact. Mileage varies, natch.

The original trilogy is modern myth, both action-packed and deep. It will leave you laughing one moment, breathless from the high-paced action the next and shocked in another. The effects were bleeding-edge then, still hold up incredibly well today and, in some respects, are better because they are models, with weight and substance to them.

It is the classic hero's journey, following Luke from boyhood to manhood. He learns, he grows. He is not perfect, but that makes it all the better. What he does at the end of Return of the Jedi is awe-inspiring.

And there's not just him. The entire cast is memorable, from the dashing rogue Han Solo to the feisty action girl princess Leia. darth Vader, Tarkin, Palpatine, Lando, Kenobi, Yoda... it is a deep cast. With good and evil and some gray inbetween.

The action is intense, well-done. Endor remains one of the best space battles in cinematic history and might never be surpassed. Yavin is classic dogfighting in the best traditions. And Leia never misses a shot.

But there's steak to the gravy, too, as we see Palpatine and Vader vying for Luke, to seduce him to the Dark Side. The fight in the emperor's throneroom is one for the ages as Luke's soul is at stake. In the end, though, good triumphs as Luke does the impossible and throws away his lightsaber.

Oh, did I mention lightsabers being one of the coolest weapons ever? Just for the record.

Anyway... The original trilogy holds up well today, almost better than when it came out. I have watched it a hundred times. I shall probably watch it a hundred more.

I'll admit the preceding was a bit rambling. My apologies, but it comes from the heart.

Ironhidensh wrote:I'm way too huge of a Star Wars nerd to answer this without flaming so let me just say this:


Without Star Wars, sci fi as you know it today, simply wouldn't be here. SW revolutionized the industry in ways people hadn't even thought of yet. If you can't respect it for its sheer stupendous awesomeness, respect it for that.

I have to add to this.

Star Wars was originally going to be a cinematic adaptation of the original Flash Gordon series, but as Lucas didn't get the rights to make that (simply since he was just a young and unknown newcomer and therefore wasn't trusted with such a project and money it needed) he just changed the names and a few things, and then decided to make it all more original. And in the end he ended up with so much material (which he had originally created just to give him something to work with in order to define the characters) that instead of having just a movie with potential sequels but also enough material to make a trilogy set before this film, which is why Star Wars was later renamed into Star Wars Episode IV A new hope.

But since Star Wars was such a success everybody forgot about Flash Gordon, which even had the evolutionary scene cuts for which Star Wars is famous.

Now I really only love the original trilogy, the prequels are horrible, sure I liked them when I first saw them because hey it's Star Wars and I'm seeing it in a theatre! But I always had this feeling which kept me from enjoying them as much as the originals. I never managed to put my finger on what it was since I kept thinking it was just due to Darth Vader not being in it, but I found this awesome reviews which pretty much point out the things I didn't like along with the ones i couldn't put my finger on.

Episode I
http://redlettermedia.com/phantom_menace.html
Episode II
http://redlettermedia.com/clones.html

While these are funny reviews he does have valid points, well thought out points and I can't wait for Episode III.

However I'm not a Star Wars nutter, since I don't care for the expanded universe and think the main event of Star Wars are the movies and these have to be able to stand by themselves. However I do think Jabba's Baby is adorable:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rotta

Burn wrote:The EU works so much better because Lucas doesn't write it.

The guy may have been a legend in creating Star Wars, but he can't write for ****.

All hail Timothy Zahn!

Amen.

As it is, I love everything SW, except for Phantom Menace ("Kill it with fire!"-level slag... well, the only good quality is Darth Maul, for the few minutes he is on screen...) and the Clone Wars series - really, could they make even more screentime for Amidala? I especially like the EU that Del Rey is putting out. It works.

Dead Metal wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:I'm way too huge of a Star Wars nerd to answer this without flaming so let me just say this:


Without Star Wars, sci fi as you know it today, simply wouldn't be here. SW revolutionized the industry in ways people hadn't even thought of yet. If you can't respect it for its sheer stupendous awesomeness, respect it for that.

I have to add to this.

Star Wars was originally going to be a cinematic adaptation of the original Flash Gordon series, but as Lucas didn't get the rights to make that (simply since he was just a young and unknown newcomer and therefore wasn't trusted with such a project and money it needed) he just changed the names and a few things, and then decided to make it all more original. And in the end he ended up with so much material (which he had originally created just to give him something to work with in order to define the characters) that instead of having just a movie with potential sequels but also enough material to make a trilogy set before this film, which is why Star Wars was later renamed into Star Wars Episode IV A new hope.

But since Star Wars was such a success everybody forgot about Flash Gordon, which even had the evolutionary scene cuts for which Star Wars is famous.

Now I really only love the original trilogy, the prequels are horrible, sure I liked them when I first saw them because hey it's Star Wars and I'm seeing it in a theatre! But I always had this feeling which kept me from enjoying them as much as the originals. I never managed to put my finger on what it was since I kept thinking it was just due to Darth Vader not being in it, but I found this awesome reviews which pretty much point out the things I didn't like along with the ones i couldn't put my finger on.

Episode I
http://redlettermedia.com/phantom_menace.html
Episode II
http://redlettermedia.com/clones.html

While these are funny reviews he does have valid points, well thought out points and I can't wait for Episode III.

However I'm not a Star Wars nutter, since I don't care for the expanded universe and think the main event of Star Wars are the movies and these have to be able to stand by themselves. However I do think Jabba's Baby is adorable:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rotta

I would buy you a beer.

Burn wrote:All hail Timothy Zahn!

This. This cubed. This to the power of a googol.

Chaoslock wrote:I especially like the EU that Del Rey is putting out. It works.

No. It doesn't. It really, really doesn't.

Nightscreech wrote:Am I the only Transformers fan here who thinks Star Wars sucks?

Nope, not at all.

I never liked it either.

Skyfire77 wrote:

Burn wrote:All hail Timothy Zahn!

This. This cubed. This to the power of a googol.

I actually liked his "Cobras" novels much more...

Star Wars in terms of the films are enjoyable at best. The best parts though, are in the expanded universe

Skyfire77 wrote:

Burn wrote:All hail Timothy Zahn!

This. This cubed. This to the power of a googol.

Agreed, but add in Stackpole & Alliston

I use to be a major fan of Allston but his recent work with the Legacy series has soured my opinion of him.

But those X-Wing books he wrote, they were brilliant.

Burn wrote:I use to be a major fan of Allston but his recent work with the Legacy series has soured my opinion of him.

It's not really fair to judge Allston on Legacy. It's clear that's he's a competent writer forced to work on a story that has no merit.

Burn wrote:I use to be a major fan of Allston but his recent work with the Legacy series has soured my opinion of him.

I solved that problem by not reading anything that came out after 'Vision of the Future'.

Skyfire77 wrote:I solved that problem by not reading anything that came out after 'Vision of the Future'.

Technically, the last book before the start of the NJO is Crisis at Crystal Reef.

I like Star Wars as far as the movies, but I never got into anything else at all. I never liked the action figures, and there were only a couple ships/fighters I really cared about. I did think think R2D2 was a damned rock star when I was a kid. Still do, actually.

Bit off topic (sort of) but I was just thinking about the OT and TF:TM, and I think there are some characters in them which are loosely comparable.

Luke - Hot Rod

Obi Wan - Optimus (Or Kup, but Kup doesn't die)

Leia - Arcee

Han Solo - Springer

Chewbacca - Grimlock

Darth Vader - Megatron/Galvatron (kinda)

Death Star/Palpatine - Unicron

Tarkin - Starscream (kinda)

Boba Fett - ???

Yoda - ??? (Optimus after death/Matrix?)

It's 4:30 in the morning and I am bored, watching LotR: Two Towers. Cut me slack.

No slack necessary, dude. You are making good (and correct) points.

Star Wars was based on a classical story construct (I don't know if that is the right term..), and I have to assume that most epic adventure stories are, actually. There was a documentary on History Channel or one of those channels. It broke down the story in Star Wars, and it showed the roles of each character in the story and how they related to stories in Greek writing and Mythology.

And........it is 4:30am and I sitting here looking at a TF site while I am supposed to be working..

What is the absolute point value in creating a thread that is an opinion-based statement where we all know there will be two or more sides and creat a pointless argument that will never be resolved?

A collection of opinions is fine as long as everyone is just posting so that we all know what we think... but for an originating post to be simply stating that ANYTHING in particular just "sucks" is pointless. There is GOING to be debate and its not going to end.

It is far more constructive I feel, to create an original post that points out facts about something and asks if people are aware of those facts and HOW they feel in general about them. Not stating that something sucks is a better way to start a thread of interest that will be informative yet not degrade any intellectual property, in this case being STAR WARS.

NOTHING Sucks and NOTHING absolutely RULES either. We have things in this world such as STAR WARS that MANY people are in agreement on that it is fantastic and epic on many levels, and then there are the haters too, so it is with all things. Transformers does not have the following that STAR WARS does but it is getting there thanks to the movies that made it current fair for the time being.

Basically, to start a thread with "blank" sucks.... is baiting people for posting angrily no matter what, and could be considered, although its not in THIS case but the act of doing this is a FORM of trolling because you are using a negative subject line to entice people to read the post, even if it is your opinion. And that will in turn gode people on and get them to start crap.

Take if from someone who has been away a VERY long time from here, I have learned MY lessons here a very long time ago and I have grown a GREAT deal since then. This account itself is quite old but as you see, I've made very few posts.

Please consider this the next time you want to post based on opinion of suckage.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Bit off topic (sort of) but I was just thinking about the OT and TF:TM, and I think there are some characters in them which are loosely comparable.

Luke - Hot Rod

Obi Wan - Optimus (Or Kup, but Kup doesn't die)

Leia - Arcee

Han Solo - Springer

Chewbacca - Grimlock

Darth Vader - Megatron/Galvatron (kinda)

Death Star/Palpatine - Unicron

Tarkin - Starscream (kinda)

Boba Fett - ???

Yoda - ??? (Optimus after death/Matrix?)

It's 4:30 in the morning and I am bored, watching LotR: Two Towers. Cut me slack.

That was the makers intent, that's even how they had pitched it to the producers in that it would be like Star Wars, note that Arcee has Leia's hair style and when designed was described as basically being a naked pink metal Princess Leia.

Dead Metal wrote:That was the makers intent, that's even how they had pitched it to the producers in that it would be like Star Wars, note that Arcee has Leia's hair style

OK, so I'm not completely off my rocker here...

and when designed was described as basically being a naked pink metal Princess Leia.

*drool*

Dead Metal wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:Bit off topic (sort of) but I was just thinking about the OT and TF:TM, and I think there are some characters in them which are loosely comparable.

Luke - Hot Rod

Obi Wan - Optimus (Or Kup, but Kup doesn't die)

Leia - Arcee

Han Solo - Springer

Chewbacca - Grimlock

Darth Vader - Megatron/Galvatron (kinda)

Death Star/Palpatine - Unicron

Tarkin - Starscream (kinda)

Boba Fett - ???

Yoda - ??? (Optimus after death/Matrix?)

It's 4:30 in the morning and I am bored, watching LotR: Two Towers. Cut me slack.

That was the makers intent, that's even how they had pitched it to the producers in that it would be like Star Wars, note that Arcee has Leia's hair style and when designed was described as basically being a naked pink metal Princess Leia.

I don't know about the naked part, but yeah in 1986 they'd have to of pitched TF:TM on the coat-tails of something much more recognized.. I doubt studio execs understood or even know much at all about TransFormers back then. So this makes absolute sense... and made for one of the best animated films of all time in my opinion.

For what its worth, none of this shows that Star Wars sucks. Maybe if it caused someone to die during its creation like some movies where stuntmen died or if we found out GL was a Nazi or something like that... but there is nothing to make Star Wars a bad thing, it's just something that a majority agree is a very good story and so majority rules. It (SW) is one of the few things we have that might be here still for our great-great great grandchildren, as long as we're still here after 2012. (joke).

It's not surprising that TF was pitched as a movie "like star wars". However with all the corralations, its STILL ... NOT Star Wars at all. It similair, but TransFormers : The Movie does stand on its own (as long as you watched g1).