The Energon Pub

First off how may times are the mods going to try to shut down the sub-factions?! The tryed before and failed, tryed again and failed again. Why? Simple they are trying to control things they have no control over. If people want to start subfactions, they will. The mods have no control over that. Every two three months a thread appears about shutting down the AWC and RDD. I'm banned from the RDD ( i misbehaved badly, for who this may concurn i'm sorry), i still stand by my believe they add more to thise game than Burn and the mods want to give them credit for. Instead of trying to shut out peoplw who are trying to help. You should allow them in and work together, so creating a true community. One based on friendship and working together. Instead of willfull inforcing one's believes on someone else. AS should step down as MOD. Mods are here to keep to peace, not to disturb it. AS lost his crediblty as a mod. AS a player should stay! He earned that right.

_Galvatron_ wrote:i still stand by my believe they add more to thise game than Burn and the mods want to give them credit for.

Oh I wish you people would get over the idea that i'm against sub-factions and think they serve no purpose. Maybe if some of you opened your eyes you'd understand WHY this discussion keeps coming up so often.

Burn wrote:

Redimus wrote:That is why YOU cant get us to help you. Because YOU exect everybody to want to use this slow difficult forum with all it's problems instead of the very easy and quick msn.

See, there you go again with your inability to look past yourself.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe people don't like to use MSN? Or did you stop to think that maybe they don't have the time to sit in front of computer and carry on an IM conversation and that this "slow difficult forum" is good for them because they can come back hours later and be able to catch up on conversations?

Did you even stop to consider that having such a discussion on a public forum may give newer members a chance to see how things are organised and give them a chance to join in and make friends?

Did you stop to consider any of that or is far simpler for you to make this about me?

Try looking past your own selfish attitude and your dislike of me. Contrary to what you and a number of others seem to believe, this isn't about me "being left out", unlike you I try to put forward ideas to benefit all members, old and new. Do your private IM conversations do that Redimus?

Be a good boy and start looking at the bigger picture.

Im not saying that MSN is the answer. im simply saying that if (at the moment) you want any real kinda help, that is simply the easiest way to get it (and that forum is not).

If people dotn want to use MSN (or similer) than that is their decission, just like if people dont want to learn to drive that is their decision. But they cant then turn around and complain they cant drive their car.

Just wanted to let you all know I'm still here taking notes.
This is a great discussion.
Trust me that this is all going to result in more than just talk. Hopefully we can resolve several issues by the time this is all done.

Galvatron Prime's post seems to be the best in this thread so far. I agree with everything he mentioned.

_Galvatron_ wrote:First off how may times are the mods going to try to shut down the sub-factions?! The tryed before and failed, tryed again and failed again. Why? Simple they are trying to control things they have no control over. If people want to start subfactions, they will. The mods have no control over that. Every two three months a thread appears about shutting down the AWC and RDD. I'm banned from the RDD ( i misbehaved badly, for who this may concurn i'm sorry), i still stand by my believe they add more to thise game than Burn and the mods want to give them credit for. Instead of trying to shut out peoplw who are trying to help. You should allow them in and work together, so creating a true community. One based on friendship and working together. Instead of willfull inforcing one's believes on someone else. AS should step down as MOD. Mods are here to keep to peace, not to disturb it. AS lost his crediblty as a mod. AS a player should stay! He earned that right.

Please go back and reread the first post. In fact, anyone who is just tuning in, make sure you read the beginning of this thread instead of just jumping in.


Actually, to save you the trouble:

Omega Sentinel wrote:As promised, here is the thread to discuss in a CONSTRUCTIVE manner how to accomodate the needs of those involved with the subfactions.

Disclaimers:

1. There is no active effort to eliminate the current subfactions.

2. I honestly want to help develop ways to increase feelings of community and competition within the site and the game. This thread will give us an open forum to discuss how.

This thread is not here to ask whether we should eliminate the subfactions or prevent their creation. That question has been answered, and the answer is "no".

The passionate efforts of numerous posters to argue in favor of their respective subfactions, desperately trying to rescue them from the threat of oblivion at the hands of 'the man', is futile! Because you won! Yes, you guys won the argument!(sort of) Stop defending yourselves and relax!




Sorry if that was brusque, I was just hoping we could get this back on topic.

I think the chief thing of interest is: "How can we bring the things that have made the subfactions successful, here to Seibertron?"

In other words, we're effectively asking the seasoned subfaction-organizers to share their experience.

Would that be about right OS?

I'm not taking sides to the sub-factions topic. Since I lead one. They are an Intergrated part of the Transformers Universe. Wreackers, Dinobots, Seekers, etc... From G1 to now. Think about it I read in one comic that Optimus Prime brought them all together. Their just a bunch of special teams and that is all. Now I can't say about my roommates teams, but I will speak about my own team of 12. There is 3 sub-teams with 3 leaders. Making the the sub-teams with 4 bots each. I'm just waiting on V2 to specialize them into those groups since I ^&*%%*& up them in V1. So there you have it.

I think everyone teams are already sub-factions of the 2/4 bigger groups. I mean we can have 12 Bots/Cons, but Sub-Factions as you guys are saying with more members. I mean come on we're all have friends here and teaming up with them is good. I think as long as we play by the rules then there should not be a problem.

I don't know the full story on what involved AS, but guys let it go. He's a good guy and didn't mean to cause harm.

The mods are doing the best they can, and the game is better now.

OS keep up the great(was going to say good but that would be an understatement) work with HMW. btw meant to get off subject.

Traks wrote:And if the subfactions want to be apart of HMW forums then how about a RRD base in the Con thread and an AWC in the Bot thread? it will keep them in view of the side they are meant for only and will give new people a chance to see what the subfactions are about without having to join them first. Plus it will let Non faction members interact with the faction members.

Seconded; it seems like a worthwhile idea, now that we have the faction-specific boards again...especially if V2 is going to require more intra-faction strategy.

Caelus wrote:I think the chief thing of interest is: "How can we bring the things that have made the subfactions successful, here to Seibertron?"

In other words, we're effectively asking the seasoned subfaction-organizers to share their experience.

Would that be about right OS?

Yes. The input of the organizers would be beneficial, but I would like the input of everyone and not just the organizers before doing anything.

That's actually one of the first steps OS, you need to get everyone involved and encourage them to be a part of things. But it needs to be done in an open and welcoming way, which you did.

I do encourage all faction members and former faction members to give said input.

Dynamax wrote:That's actually one of the first steps OS, you need to get everyone involved and encourage them to be a part of things. But it needs to be done in an open and welcoming way, which you did.

I do encourage all faction members and former faction members to give said input as well as those not affiliated with any sub-factions and may be lurking, too scared to join in.

Fixxxed.

OK, Sorry about the length OS, but this is the way i see it;
As an initial step can we have a permanent and obvious link to the faction boards on this forum please?

Then, whenever you are able, could you fill us in on how the territorial aspect of the game will work:
- Will there be an ongoing canon-esque story behind the game (an rpg aspect and/or relevant themed missions etc) and any need for a faction command structure?
- Will there be trade requirements (energon, supplies, regional specific equipment)?
- What level of teamwork between commanders will it require (co-ordinating an attack on a 'bot stronghold for example - how will that work)?
- Should a region get cut off from the rest of the faction, what mechanic is there to allow the call for reinforcements to be sent and heard?
- and, assuming that player numbers increase as the game gets underway are you planning a game tutorial for the newer players, as id argue thats what the clans probably spend most of their time doing (albeit willingly).

Some of this stuff will require greater organisation/structure than is currently available here if it is included in the new game.

As for the present version of HMW; I see the RDD filling 3 roles in the game for the members and the cons;
1] A less intensive and less moderated forum to relax in, chat and allow concersations to non-TF related and where people wont feel so intimidated by the sheer volume of posts to sift through.
2] Instruction. Everything from setup advice by level to the breakdown of specific tactics to working out when a particular alt will show up on the rotator again in its own forum.
3] Ents. Tournaments, bounty hunts, althunts, scavenger hunts etc; generally put together by us as we comprise of a large ammount of the active posters.
Im sure there is more but that what i can think of.

Im more than willing to try and get some, if not all, of these things brought here.

As a last point, the fact that the forums still arent fixed after what must be a almost 6 months now doesnt help. Following a thread is not easy, with an extra forum to be looking at as well, its becomes even harder.

I think that the faction forums should be under the forums thing on the left hand side, where we can find it easily. And what happened to all that talk of an RP?

I should probably have something to say on this topic, as I am the AWC Commander. So here is my 3 cents (making up since GP is a cheap-o )

Obviously I believe the subfactions are a good thing for the game since I have been with the AWC since its inception and pretty much my whole HMW career. I have seen the good, the bad and the ugly with subfactions. I believe the good is that they add an extra sense of teamwork and that they belong to something, not just playing another internet game. The bad being the politics between the rival factions. Yes I had a big part of this. The elitism some may feel that the subfactions have. The ugly being the Dark Tidings Tournament. I never want that to rear its ugly head again.

Yes I was the one who started the off-site boards. I never wanted to take away from visiting this site only for the game and keep to ourselves on our boards. I have always encouraged to post on the HMW forums. In fact, there is a link to the HMW forums and HMW game on the AWC site. The AWC wouldn't have been anything if HMW didn't exist.

I have tried to make the subfactions, atleast on the AWC side of thing, like an addition to HMW. There will always going to be subfaction or guilds in games like this, whether they are secret or not. I have strived to put the AWC's and my best foot forward in HMW, and it always worked out that way.

I am definitly open to having mod access to all forums on the AWC site. I think all the subfactions need is a recuiting thread either in their respective faction forums on on the HMW GD forum. Having our own sites is more than enough for us. The subfaction commanders should definitely encourage posting on seibertron.com as much as possible. I have never wanted to take away anything from this site. I agree on no special treatment in the game. I believe that their should be a limit on the guilds in the game. I think there is room for two Autobot, two Decepticon, and two Bounty Hunter-type subfactions. Let them be the only approved subfactions. First come first serve basis.

I am going to take this chance to declare that when HMW v2.0 comes out, that will also coincide with AWC v2.0 coming out. We will be wiping everything clean and starting fresh. The AWC will wiping its entire site. I'm sure some AWC members have seen that I have started that. This will include the member list. I am trying to improve the AWC image in the game and starting over seems the most logical reason. We can start anew in a basically new game.

Evolution Prime wrote: The ugly being the Dark Tidings Tournament. I never want that to rear its ugly head again.

I'm the complete opposite, it needs to readdressed, sweeping it under the carpet isn't going make things better, it's been 2 years and it hasn't gone away yet, obviously some people haven't got closure, and aren't going to get it by leaving things as they are.

Tammuz wrote:

Evolution Prime wrote: The ugly being the Dark Tidings Tournament. I never want that to rear its ugly head again.

I'm the complete opposite, it needs to readdressed, sweeping it under the carpet isn't going make things better, it's been 2 years and it hasn't gone away yet, obviously some people haven't got closure, and aren't going to get it by leaving things as they are.

It's not an issue of sweeping it under the carpet. It is time for Dark Tidings to be put behind us. Half the current players don't even know what it was and the game itself is very different now (and is about to become radically moreso).

Time to let Dark Tidings go and continue to hash out our current subfaction issues. Besides a few players harboring bitterness, Dark Tidings is NOT a current subfaction issue. It is simply something that can happen again if we don't come to a constructive resolution in this thread.

Tammuz wrote:

Evolution Prime wrote: The ugly being the Dark Tidings Tournament. I never want that to rear its ugly head again.

I'm the complete opposite, it needs to readdressed, sweeping it under the carpet isn't going make things better, it's been 2 years and it hasn't gone away yet, obviously some people haven't got closure, and aren't going to get it by leaving things as they are.

I guess I was more referring to how things turned out during the DT. All the stuff that went on and such. I believe that to be the lowest point for either faction. Things got really ugly with all the accusations and finger pointing going on.

I'm not saying sweep it under the carpet. It is HMW history. We should learn from it and move forward. It will never truely die. If we don't learn from it, we are doomed to repeat its mistakes.

While the ingame events of DT are long gone, the board side events of DT still lingers, I think that's what Tammuz means needs to be addressed. One of those board side events, for me anyway, was the banning of the bootcamp. One of the reasons given I believe was because it was spam, and another was because it turned into a subfaction. It was never really clear. It just sucked that it was kicked off. That started some of us feeling that we weren't wanted on the boards, driving us off the HMW boards. So, it does need to be addressed, unfortunatly. As long as it's still being brought up, that just shows there is some uncomfortable people on the boards.

One of the things that deffinetly needs to be addressed is are subfactions and it's members going to be subject to the whims of the moderators? "Oh, I don't really like what they're talking about, I'm going to close this thread and not give a reason why." Is that going to happen again? Or will they be allowed, and before any thing like that happens, will there be a discussion? That's one of the things that's always kinda bothered me about the boards here, it's completely subject to a whim. "Ahh... You know what? Today I really don't want to hear about this anymore. Anything that pops up about it that I see, locked." Then the next day, eh, who cares. Let'em talk about it. A lot of times I feels like things are just decided on a whim. There's no real rules or codes of conduct for anything. That's something that needs to be addressed too. I'm all for the subfactions, and they honestly need to be regulated and controlled, but at the sametimes, those who police also need to have some rules about them, something that they need to be held acountable for too. And that, ultimately, is something that needs to be discussed as a result of DT. However, that's not what this thread is about. I apollogize for sidetracking the discussion OS. You may take revenge apon my team by beating them in missions.

I'll answer these questions to spur on the discussion and shed some light on things...You guys are giving some great feedback and ideas.

Psychout wrote:As an initial step can we have a permanent and obvious link to the faction boards on this forum please?

By the end of the week.
I'm finishing the script to automatically add new players to the faction forums.

Psychout wrote:- Will there be an ongoing canon-esque story behind the game (an rpg aspect and/or relevant themed missions etc) and any need for a faction command structure?

Yes (to the story question). The new HMW has an official story line as panned out by myself and Seibs. We are keeping the storyline as close to canon as possible placing it between Beast Wars and Beast Machines to logically pit the Maximals, Autobots, Predacons and Decepticons against (or with) each other while not having to include fan fictions into the "official" storyline. Basically the storyline during the game will progress depending on how good (or bad) your faction plays.

Psychout wrote:- Will there be trade requirements (energon, supplies, regional specific equipment)?

Not neccessarily requirements. But minicons, energon and weapons will be very valuable.

Psychout wrote:- What level of teamwork between commanders will it require (co-ordinating an attack on a 'bot stronghold for example - how will that work)?

there can be up to 10 active campaigns going on at one time in each territory. This means you can either stack all your bots into a few campaigns or launch 10 seperate ones to wear your enemy thin. This will require some communication if you are going up against a territory fortified with enemy troops. You won't be able to move through territories controlled by an enemy either so you will need to be wise in what you attack and when. This, of course, is just the tip of the ice berg. I will probably give everyone a preview of the map very soon when I am certain everything is going to work properly.

Psychout wrote:- Should a region get cut off from the rest of the faction, what mechanic is there to allow the call for reinforcements to be sent and heard?

Faction forums.

Psychout wrote:- and, assuming that player numbers increase as the game gets underway are you planning a game tutorial for the newer players, as id argue thats what the clans probably spend most of their time doing (albeit willingly).

I'm planning a very graphical tutorial because I am very aware the ones we have now stink. I won't be able to get the bulk of them done before the programming of the game is done though because I may need to change some stuff later in the process.

Psychout wrote:Some of this stuff will require greater organisation/structure than is currently available here if it is included in the new game.

That is the purpose of this thread. How can I make this site meet your needs?

Psychout wrote:As for the present version of HMW; I see the RDD filling 3 roles in the game for the members and the cons;
1] A less intensive and less moderated forum to relax in, chat and allow concersations to non-TF related and where people wont feel so intimidated by the sheer volume of posts to sift through.

That's a good point.

Psychout wrote:2] Instruction. Everything from setup advice by level to the breakdown of specific tactics to working out when a particular alt will show up on the rotator again in its own forum.

Hopefully the faction forums and the new help pages in here will help out with this.

Psychout wrote:3] Ents. Tournaments, bounty hunts, althunts, scavenger hunts etc; generally put together by us as we comprise of a large ammount of the active posters.
Im sure there is more but that what i can think of.

There will be a new competition section where I'm automating some tournaments and alt hunts. Most of your leg work for these things should be automated and that is a top priority for me to get working.

Psychout wrote:Im more than willing to try and get some, if not all, of these things brought here.

Hopefully we can. May not be able to do everything, but if we can continue to figure out what we all want and need and are willing to compromise, I can envision the game and the forums becoming a much closer community.

Psychout wrote:As a last point, the fact that the forums still arent fixed after what must be a almost 6 months now doesnt help. Following a thread is not easy, with an extra forum to be looking at as well, its becomes even harder.

You are exaggerating that a bit. I haven't even been the programmer for 6 months

Again, I'm planning on having dynamic links to the forums in the sidebar this week.

Omega Sentinel wrote:

Psychout wrote:As for the present version of HMW; I see the RDD filling 3 roles in the game for the members and the cons;
1] A less intensive and less moderated forum to relax in, chat and allow concersations to non-TF related and where people wont feel so intimidated by the sheer volume of posts to sift through.

That's a good point.

I don't think there's an easy way to fix this one.

But i'll happily single Goribus out here.

Why? Because he's popping up in the other sub-forums here on Seibertron so perhaps he or someone else can be like a "big brother" and help ease people into other sections.

And yes, I realise how silly that sounds.

But then there's the whole "being able to kick back and just talk silly non-sense type stuff", and that's probably discussion best left for the big Seibertron Moderator forum.

Omega Sentinel wrote:

Psychout wrote:As a last point, the fact that the forums still arent fixed after what must be a almost 6 months now doesnt help. Following a thread is not easy, with an extra forum to be looking at as well, its becomes even harder.

You are exaggerating that a bit. I haven't even been the programmer for 6 months

Again, I'm planning on having dynamic links to the forums in the sidebar this week.

I'm guessing he's talking about the forums themselves, in particular the new posts alert. They all disappear the minute you click on a thread to read.

I know it's actually frustrated a number of people and they don't want to come around because of the hassle.

Burn wrote:

Omega Sentinel wrote:

Psychout wrote:As for the present version of HMW; I see the RDD filling 3 roles in the game for the members and the cons;
1] A less intensive and less moderated forum to relax in, chat and allow concersations to non-TF related and where people wont feel so intimidated by the sheer volume of posts to sift through.

That's a good point.

I don't think there's an easy way to fix this one.

But i'll happily single Goribus out here.

Why? Because he's popping up in the other sub-forums here on Seibertron so perhaps he or someone else can be like a "big brother" and help ease people into other sections.

And yes, I realise how silly that sounds.

But then there's the whole "being able to kick back and just talk silly non-sense type stuff", and that's probably discussion best left for the big Seibertron Moderator forum.

I'm just becoming more and more comfortable here. That and I'm attempting to reach out and make new friends and enter into debates and such. Truth be told besides the HMW forums I only go to the TF GD, GD, and Fantasy Battles. The latter only when I'm bored and/or drunk. But I have at times claimed to be the self appointed leader of the New Blood.

After all around a year and a half ago (or possibly longer), I was a lowly newb myself. Kinda scared by the giant post counts that some other people had. But I didn't let it on. In fact I did some hilarious crap to be excepted by some of you. I'm sure Burn remembers the Bounty thread I started with myself, him and 7 people I now consider great friends as the people I'd put bounties on. The point to that incredibly rambling story is that each new kid has potential and probably would post more (and across the board in general) if they were made to feel welcomed and comfortable.

I mean, some of you have taken to me pretty well (and some pretty negatively) in my time here. Most can't really believe I've only been here the time I've been here and not a bit longer. I think it's my post count. I'm an oppinionated bastard. But I call it passion for the game and the site in general.

And it does take time to "integrate" into a forum of this size.

When HMW launched I wasn't a forum goer, in fact I only participated in the Australian TF forums because I didn't want to discuss TF's with folks overseas as they tended to not think like me.

But then I started to slowly join in on the HMW discussion (I mean you kinda had to with Lucky's "revolution" going on) but still only discussed TF's back on the Australian TF forums.

And then there was the big push to get HMW people out into the rest of Seibertron because it was "becoming it's own little community" (and back then that was a bad thing) so when HMWGD was locked down most of us had no choice but to venture out.

And the rest is post count history.

Maybe the Mods can cut the faction forums a LITTLE bit of slack and allow a bit of goofing off there? That combined with new players being able to see the forums they could then be a good stepping stone for people to move into the big bad world that is the rest of Seibertron.com

Burn wrote:Maybe the Mods can cut the faction forums a LITTLE bit of slack and allow a bit of goofing off there? That combined with new players being able to see the forums they could then be a good stepping stone for people to move into the big bad world that is the rest of Seibertron.com

I have stated since day 1 that the faction forums are even less modded than HMW GD.

Mkall wrote:I have stated since day 1 that the faction forums are even less modded than HMW GD.

Yes and it's been stated before that sub-factions aren't going to be done away with but how many times has that needed to be re-stated?

Burn wrote:

Mkall wrote:I have stated since day 1 that the faction forums are even less modded than HMW GD.

Yes and it's been stated before that sub-factions aren't going to be done away with but how many times has that needed to be re-stated?

And that is part of the problem.