The Energon Pub

I was thinking on how the transformers took their shape after they landed on earth. In specific how BB changed his car form, battle damage, and starscream/blackout questions.

I will try to be short. Please keep in mind I have only seen the movie once (yes shame on me!) so some details might be a bit off.

When BB changed his car mode from the trans-am to the cammaro all he did was scan another car and he changed his appearance and his interior. In essence, he was the car he scanned. The only way I can think of is like the T-1000 in T2. But in this case the metal assumed the properties of the materials. The wheels turned, the car operated normally.

But in battle, wouldn't the glass break or the wheels bust? I am gonna assume that when they transform to alt mode, the metal turns solid.

So if they can mimic all the interior components... then they can replicate transponders, communications.. ect ect. That means that Blackout could have transmitted a code to the base that said that he was helicopter 405 blah blah blah. But I guess that wouldn't be the nature of being Blackout, eh?

Which would kinda support the idea that Starscream could have jumped onto that last plane, ripped it's wing off, then transformed into the jet that he just killed. They would have totally lost him in the scuffle and eventually take over as the leader.

But then again, let's say that this is right, that means that OP or BB or any of the autobots could just scan airplanes and become them... not an idea I like too much.

Am I makin any sense here?

Omega_Supreme wrote:I was thinking on how the transformers took their shape after they landed on earth. In specific how BB changed his car form, battle damage, and starscream/blackout questions.

I will try to be short. Please keep in mind I have only seen the movie once (yes shame on me!) so some details might be a bit off.

When BB changed his car mode from the trans-am to the cammaro all he did was scan another car and he changed his appearance and his interior. In essence, he was the car he scanned. The only way I can think of is like the T-1000 in T2. But in this case the metal assumed the properties of the materials. The wheels turned, the car operated normally.

But in battle, wouldn't the glass break or the wheels bust? I am gonna assume that when they transform to alt mode, the metal turns solid.

So if they can mimic all the interior components... then they can replicate transponders, communications.. ect ect. That means that Blackout could have transmitted a code to the base that said that he was helicopter 405 blah blah blah. But I guess that wouldn't be the nature of being Blackout, eh?

Which would kinda support the idea that Starscream could have jumped onto that last plane, ripped it's wing off, then transformed into the jet that he just killed. They would have totally lost him in the scuffle and eventually take over as the leader.

But then again, let's say that this is right, that means that OP or BB or any of the autobots could just scan airplanes and become them... not an idea I like too much.

Am I makin any sense here?

no...

I was trying to be brief cause people have the attention span of an ants rear end. I guess a bit too brief.

Not the T-1000 that was a bad example. More like the TX. Where they have the basic robot endoskeleton but they have a liquid metal "skin" that they can mimic vehicles. To camouflage themselves, but unlike the terminator series, this camouflage can replicate moving parts such as entire car interiors from seatbelts to stearing wheel and exteriors such as tires and suspension.

This is the best I can do to explain what I am trying to get across. Perhaps a little to complicated an idea to try to get across on a message board, Oh well.

He was never a trans am, he was a Camaro and then became a new model of a Camaro lol

ive never liked the idea that they can change their vehicle at any time, it kind of takes the fun out of it in a way. obviously BB was the only one who did and it was still very similar anyway. i figured that during robot mode their tires and glass and whatever else could break. if ironhide's foot can rust from dog piss, im sure his other functioning parts can be damaged also lol.

I dont think prime or bumbles could just scan a plane. Well, technically they could do anything I want, but you have to put a level of realism to it, and that level would be, if prime is a large AUTOmobile on cybertron, then he will probably be a large automobile on another planet.

Maybe something else to consider, perhaps it takes alot of energy to scan and change into a new form, who knows what their fictional history and body make up is yet, though.

Generally considered cannon (as stated by the writers) is that they can only assimilate something of equal mass. So BB as a plane? No, no i dont think so. But he could certainly become a variety of cars.

I don't think that the change from old CHEVROLET™ CAMARO® to new CHEVROLET™ CAMARO® warrants the need for liquid metal components. The two vehicles are very similar in the broad sense and the scan simply could've been for cosmetic reasons. The way I see it, BB just updated his exterior. All engine and suspension parts could just say the same as they are more than likely Cybertronian in nature and therefore far superior to anything he could scan.

I don't think that his smaller robot frame could support a plane or any larger vehicle either. I can see the scanning and upgrading within certain limits as an entertaining idea but nothing like a Motorcycle-bot being able to scan an aircraft carrier and change into that. That makes it waaaay to easy.

...Am I making sense? or "Perhaps a little to complicated an idea to try to get across on a message board," since I'm soooo smart.

the liquid metal thing could be somewhat true, for us to discuss anyway its not like they ever need to explain it in the movies. especially with BB, the cars front bumper splits in half to cover his chest in robot form, so you should be able to see the line dividing the two sides while in car form. but then again theyre aliens from another planet, so they can do whatever they want.

I imagine for my own sanity that they have components of their body made of an aloy that they manipulate on a molecular level with some sort of advanced technology. We are starting to develope this technology now.
I dont think their tires, windows, seats ,etc are made of anything but this aloy manipuated to have some of the natuaral properties of their respective function. Not all of their body is outfitted with these parts, just the outer shell in alt mode. So their choice of vehicle is limited to the coverage space of this "shell".

Venomous Prime: Yeah i should have researched that more before my post.

krisko: I agree. It should be they pick what they are and that is it. Something like imprinting.

Briggs: Good point about the energy consideration.

Meverix: Then according to the writers then OP could turn into a plane or boat?

ghostofstarscream: cosmetic reasons? Like all that needed to happen was a change of paint? Are the cars THAT similar? I dunno to be honest, I would say that there would be more to it than that. But the liquid metal thing would fit.

Also, can anyone tell me if when the TF's first came down (like in the pool scene with the little girl) did they have the components to make vehicles? Like tires, bumpers, and windshields? If not then BB would still have to make the suspension parts and stuff when he got here right? BUT I do agree with you Ghost that anything they scan they would either have or make something far superior.

Also the smaller frame thing and equal size that you and Meverix mentioned make perfect sense.

The complex idea thing and the make sense thing was more about my ability to explain what I ment Vs. your guys ability to understand. Sorry about that.

krisko: Yeah I would be against anyone trying to explain any of this in the movie. It would like when they tried to explain the "force" in Star Wars - it kinda ruined it for me.

Well the split in half thing would be solved by something like liquid metal. It would fuse together in vehicle mode.

I was doing some more thinking on this and the liquid metal thing could also explain the mouth moving in a human way as well. Also, they could make more or less of the liquid metal (depending on what they choose what vehicle to camouflage in) from a very common element on almost every planet - Hydrogen. How this fits is that would kinda explain how the small transformer they made in the case (from the cell phone) had loaded weapons, it made them from the Hydrogen. Dunno.

Just thoughts. Thanks for bringing up some real good points guys.

T Honk wrote:I imagine for my own sanity that they have components of their body made of an aloy that they manipulate on a molecular level with some sort of advanced technology

Exactly!

their bodies probably have some sort of nano tech which allows them to change on a molecular level, in the movie an in other continuities it showed that they regenerate some what, the most likely thing is that their bodies have built in nanotechnology which can reconfigure and repair

Great Atlas wrote:their bodies probably have some sort of nano tech which allows them to change on a molecular level, in the movie an in other continuities it showed that they regenerate some what, the most likely thing is that their bodies have built in nanotechnology which can reconfigure and repair

DING DING DING!!! Theres the answer.

krisko wrote:ive never liked the idea that they can change their vehicle at any time, it kind of takes the fun out of it in a way. obviously BB was the only one who did and it was still very similar anyway. i figured that during robot mode their tires and glass and whatever else could break. if ironhide's foot can rust from dog piss, im sure his other functioning parts can be damaged also lol.

well, if you remember the car dealer scene, BB used a supersonic frequency that broke all the car windows but his own, which leads me to believe that when they scan a form, they upgrade that vehicles parts, like how BB had that 8-cylinder engine with a fuel injector, so he probably also has other upgrades like reinforced glass

Great Atlas wrote:their bodies probably have some sort of nano tech which allows them to change on a molecular level, in the movie an in other continuities it showed that they regenerate some what, the most likely thing is that their bodies have built in nanotechnology which can reconfigure and repair

I somewhat agree. As a living organism it is safe to assume that the Transformers have "cells". Not in the same sense as our cells but microscopic machine units that can rearrange, regenerate, divide, and process energy. And apparently, with sufficient energy, a Transformer can regenerate even the most grievous wounds (Frenzy).

Nanobots.
But back to the glass, Rubber, plastic pieces... It is theoreticly possible to to take a piece of metal, run a current or something through it, and trigger a molecular change to it that could retain the strength of the metal, yet change other desired properties such as transparancy, texture or shape. Any characteristic can be manipulated to any verying degree this way.

Any piece of matter can be completely or partially changed to another type of matter if you rearrange the position of the molecules. You just need the technology that can do this. We have started doing this on a very small scale with polymers already so I would imagine TFs are way ahead in the game.

The nanobots and polymers that can be manipulated into shapes and take the appearance of plastic, glass, rubber, ect. That would make a lot of sense.

I kinda preferred the old way where they take one vehicle and that is what they are. No insta changing. But oh well.

it could also be possible that they are designed to simply copy the materials of the scanned vehicle, then reformat the parts to act as armor in robot mode. this is likely by how the Autobots were able to scan their vehicle modes while in robot mode

continuing on the idea from my last post, they probably also used the internet to research the best parts to use so that they can operate at their best in vehicle mode

Also, I was often under the impression that in a few of the continuities they tended to scan objects on earth that had similar functions to their own natural abilities before on Cybertron. Main focus being flight capabilities and other similar concepts. If all they need to find is a vehicle of similar mass, wouldn't it be smarter for Optimus to choose something like a jet for manuverability over a truck?

On the other topic, I would go with the nano technology and molecular changes for their transformation abilities. Nano technology that advanced would be nearly organic in function and would eplain quite a bit of what the bots can do.

Agreed on both posts. Although I think that Prime, being the leadership type, would fight with his troupe and choose a similar form. If they all had to be land vehicles then he would choose one too.

It all keeps coming back to Terminator, anyway. The "liquid metal" they had was explained with nanotech, too. Same thing. The movie Transformers use the same principle as the TX.

Which inevitably leads to the question why they don't keep changing their alt mode to better suit their current needs.

Plothole problem that's impossible to get around at this point.

Omega_Supreme wrote:I was thinking on how the transformers took their shape after they landed on earth. In specific how BB changed his car form, battle damage, and starscream/blackout questions.

I will try to be short. Please keep in mind I have only seen the movie once (yes shame on me!) so some details might be a bit off.

When BB changed his car mode from the trans-am to the cammaro all he did was scan another car and he changed his appearance and his interior. In essence, he was the car he scanned. The only way I can think of is like the T-1000 in T2. But in this case the metal assumed the properties of the materials. The wheels turned, the car operated normally.

But in battle, wouldn't the glass break or the wheels bust? I am gonna assume that when they transform to alt mode, the metal turns solid.

So if they can mimic all the interior components... then they can replicate transponders, communications.. ect ect. That means that Blackout could have transmitted a code to the base that said that he was helicopter 405 blah blah blah. But I guess that wouldn't be the nature of being Blackout, eh?

Which would kinda support the idea that Starscream could have jumped onto that last plane, ripped it's wing off, then transformed into the jet that he just killed. They would have totally lost him in the scuffle and eventually take over as the leader.

But then again, let's say that this is right, that means that OP or BB or any of the autobots could just scan airplanes and become them... not an idea I like too much.

Am I makin any sense here?

\]

I understand what you are saying and have thought something about this. I don't think its anything about liquid metal. I think its just purely Cybertronic technology- its alien and hard for earthlings to understand. As for why Autobots don't scan airplanes, etc... my theory is the compatibility of the spark. This is reminiscent of Beast Wars when the Predacons were trying to reprogram the Maximal stasis pod and there was no acceptable form in range. I think that the acceptable form that a cybertronian can scan and take on that form is dictated by the characteristics/personality of the spark.

Creature SH wrote:It all keeps coming back to Terminator, anyway. The "liquid metal" they had was explained with nanotech, too. Same thing. The movie Transformers use the same principle as the TX.

Which inevitably leads to the question why they don't keep changing their alt mode to better suit their current needs.

Plothole problem that's impossible to get around at this point.

The nanobots have nothing to do with alternate mode scanning. Nanobots are just tiny robots (nano; less than a billionth of a meter)that, in a human, could live in your blood and repair ailing organs and other tissue. I dont know how the would get around in a robot but would serve the same function of repairing damage.

Molecular manipulation would NOT be the same as liquid metal. Therefore these two technologies are not even close to the same. This is a real technology that I am speaking about where as in termanator the liquid shapeshifting is a theoretical possibility based loosely on Nano bot tech.

BB scanned a car mode it was in the game.