The Energon Pub

[Shadowman]

Even saber resistant fabric is feasible to some extent

It isn't. If it were, it would have been all over the place in the EU, especially in the Old Republic era where having to throw down with a Force user was just a thing that happened. If I remember right, the only properly Lightsaber-resistent material also happens to be poisonous just through skin contact. Even energy shields aren't practical, since those don't tend to hold up very long.

I mean, even if some perfect anti-saber armor existed, do you really think they'd send the Clones out without it?

[Stuartmaximus]

hold on! was that a tri-blade in there?

& who's Old Master?

also

surprised that noone's already made a Star Wars Rebels thread(& before you say....why don't YOU make one?....because if i did....someone would only come along & claim that they already made one x amount of weeks/months/years ago!)

[Burn]

Even saber resistant fabric is feasible to some extent

It isn't. If it were, it would have been all over the place in the EU, especially in the Old Republic era where having to throw down with a Force user was just a thing that happened. If I remember right, the only properly Lightsaber-resistent material also happens to be poisonous just through skin contact. Even energy shields aren't practical, since those don't tend to hold up very long.

I mean, even if some perfect anti-saber armor existed, do you really think they'd send the Clones out without it?

The Mandalorians have Beskarwhich can stand up to a lightsaber. But that's EU.

surprised that noone's already made a Star Wars Rebels thread(& before you say....why don't YOU make one?....because if i did....someone would only come along & claim that they already made one x amount of weeks/months/years ago!)

Maybe do a search first to make sure there isn't one instead of pissing and moaning about people potentially being mean to you?

[RAR]

Even saber resistant fabric is feasible to some extent

It isn't. If it were, it would have been all over the place in the EU, especially in the Old Republic era where having to throw down with a Force user was just a thing that happened. If I remember right, the only properly Lightsaber-resistent material also happens to be poisonous just through skin contact. Even energy shields aren't practical, since those don't tend to hold up very long.

I mean, even if some perfect anti-saber armor existed, do you really think they'd send the Clones out without it?

I don't think there is enough of the materials to spread that far - resistant doesn't mean it's immune - resistant would be like what Light whip tendrils would be made of so they don't get burned out,

Any sensible Jedi with some spare credits would try to find some Mandalorian iron if they could to make their saber handle out of... especially if they favour a saber-staff.

My point is that Kylo Ren should have access to rare materials that are saber resistant if he can't buy them he could steal them or get his minions to find historical example he can use instead.

Remember the original Sith used to use sold swords against Lightsaber wielders - admittedly they were enhanced with magic... and Star Wars tends to shy away from mentioning "Magic" as much as possible.

And even the non-canon excuse doesn't hold water as Mandalorian Iron is still canon as far as I know.

Any way the reason I mentioned it in the first place is Kylo Ren collects old artifacts of the Sith & Jedi so why wouldn't he have saber resistant armour parts in his collection when they've existed for Thousands of years in one form or another.

Oh and speaking of Armour I bet the Clone Trooper armour Obi-Wan used to wear sometime was a lot higher spec than the average grunts was too.

[Shadowman]

Any sensible Jedi with some spare credits would try to find some Mandalorian iron if they could to make their saber handle out of... especially if they favour a saber-staff.

First off, they don't use credits to buy Lightsaber materials, the Order itself provides what they need. Second, why would they need anti-Lightsaber materials built into a Lightsaber? It's not like the blade itself is going to suddenly burst out the side of the handle. And even if its to defend against other lightsaber users damaging the lightsaber in combat, a saber staff is already resistant to that, since we've seen, though Darth Maul, that a saber staff that gets cut in half just becomes two Lightsabers.

[RAR]

Jedi are issued Credits for their use on Missions I was just pointing out that if one did really great on a mission they could request the credits to buy a saber staff using the excuse that someone needs to maintain the form.

And most saber staffs or Light pikes should be made out of lightsaber resistant materials otherwise they'd be naff all use.

So Darth Maul was a bit of twit for not using them on his saber either - proved he was just a disposable flunky really. Unless he did and The jedi just got lucky and hit them in the joint... it is sort of implied that they are designed in two pieces with two power supplies otherwise when they were cut the other end would have fizzled out or the whole thing would have exploded.

Any way the reason I wanted to mention this is the cross guard covers on Kylo Rens Lightsaber would need to be saber resistant to work at all, otherwise the problem is anyone who cuts that part of the blade even if the plasma running underneath the cover it will still potentially splash molten metal on his hand (notice when lightsabers cut metal it often drips).

So that is why I'm on about this - if his blade has lightsaber resistant materials then that means Rey didn't cut his blade at weak spot she cut his hand off.

That said you can put all of this to one side by saying the people who are making these Movies don't think that deeply about what they are making and just do stuff that looks cool - and since Rey needed to cut his blade handle then that is what is going to happen.

It would be nice to have an explanation for the detail of this - sometime "explanations" present themselves after a bit of close thought and inspection.

For example how the hell can The Falcon fly straight through an atmosphere curtain at super-lumminal velocity without it being like hitting a brick wall.

Fortunately and explanation for this is offered later in the Movie when Solo says that the StarKiller base has a shield that only refreshes at the speed of light and isn't able to stop things faster than light (otherwise the whole planet would be in complete blackness as it would stop all the light hitting the surface of the base).

So Han flew through the gaps in the physics the part that allows visible light to pass through the shield also allows super luminal object to pass though - he likely realised this would work on StarKiller base as he'd tried it earlier.

So nice little explanation and something that was bothering me for a little while is all tied up in a nice little bow on subsequent viewing.

That is what I like to see.. things making sense in the context of the Universe they exist in.. that is why they "Stopping" a laser blast in mid air thing is a bit iffy.

[ZeroWolf]

I believe that you are looking too much into things but that is my personal thing, from the looks of your posts you like everything to make logical sense, like gears in a machine. No problem with that but not everyone cares that much no offence is meant

[Stuartmaximus]

[Shadowman]

Jedi are issued Credits for their use on Missions I was just pointing out that if one did really great on a mission they could request the credits to buy a saber staff using the excuse that someone needs to maintain the form.

And most saber staffs or Light pikes should be made out of lightsaber resistant materials otherwise they'd be naff all use.

So Darth Maul was a bit of twit for not using them on his saber either - proved he was just a disposable flunky really. Unless he did and The jedi just got lucky and hit them in the joint... it is sort of implied that they are designed in two pieces with two power supplies otherwise when they were cut the other end would have fizzled out or the whole thing would have exploded.

Any way the reason I wanted to mention this is the cross guard covers on Kylo Rens Lightsaber would need to be saber resistant to work at all, otherwise the problem is anyone who cuts that part of the blade even if the plasma running underneath the cover it will still potentially splash molten metal on his hand (notice when lightsabers cut metal it often drips).

So that is why I'm on about this - if his blade has lightsaber resistant materials then that means Rey didn't cut his blade at weak spot she cut his hand off.

That said you can put all of this to one side by saying the people who are making these Movies don't think that deeply about what they are making and just do stuff that looks cool - and since Rey needed to cut his blade handle then that is what is going to happen.

It would be nice to have an explanation for the detail of this - sometime "explanations" present themselves after a bit of close thought and inspection.

For example how the hell can The Falcon fly straight through an atmosphere curtain at super-lumminal velocity without it being like hitting a brick wall.

Fortunately and explanation for this is offered later in the Movie when Solo says that the StarKiller base has a shield that only refreshes at the speed of light and isn't able to stop things faster than light (otherwise the whole planet would be in complete blackness as it would stop all the light hitting the surface of the base).

So Han flew through the gaps in the physics the part that allows visible light to pass through the shield also allows super luminal object to pass though - he likely realised this would work on StarKiller base as he'd tried it earlier.

So nice little explanation and something that was bothering me for a little while is all tied up in a nice little bow on subsequent viewing.

That is what I like to see.. things making sense in the context of the Universe they exist in.. that is why they "Stopping" a laser blast in mid air thing is a bit iffy.

You're not only putting way too much thought into this, a lot of your arguments rely on a heavy ignorance of the setting. Like buying a saberstaff; buy it from who? The Jedi and Sith are the only organizations that handle Lightsaber production, and they aren't in the habit of selling materials, much less completed weapons, and certainly not to their own members.

[RAR]

I wasn't suggest anyone buy a saber. I am however suggesting the Jedi Council does order parts from suppliers or makes them themselves in some way - I can't see a Jedi being expected to make his own circuit board from scratch for example.

Also the mirrors used in the focusing crystal are so precise they likely require a dust free manufacturing process.

Besides that is the fun thing about Star Wars you get things made out of cobbled together pieces like the Millenium Falcon is a tone on non standard parts slapped on to a YT Freighter.

Where as Tie fighters are all identical and made on production lines.

An A-Wing however is often build in someone's shed.

So fun stuff.

[Burn]

An A-Wing however is often build in someone's shed.

A-Wings are produced by Kuat Systems. Definitely not built in sheds.

Unless you're talking models.

[Ironhidensh]

An A-Wing however is often build in someone's shed.

A-Wings are produced by Kuat Systems. Definitely not built in sheds.

Unless you're talking models.

Not at first. They were a design the alliance stole from the empire, and the ships were made here and there. Very few of them looked the same. Wedge and Tycho discussed it in one if the x-wing books.

Granted, non of that counts now so......

[Shadowman]

I wasn't suggest anyone buy a saber.

Um...yes you were:

Jedi are issued Credits for their use on Missions I was just pointing out that if one did really great on a mission they could request the credits to buy a saber staff using the excuse that someone needs to maintain the form.

And the Jedi don't get paid for their missions. The biggest reward they can get is moving up the food chain, but it's never about the paycheck for them, it's about keeping the Galaxy from falling apart because it's the right thing to do. We're talking about the Jedi, not the Mandalorians.

[Burn]

An A-Wing however is often build in someone's shed.

A-Wings are produced by Kuat Systems. Definitely not built in sheds.

Unless you're talking models.

Not at first. They were a design the alliance stole from the empire, and the ships were made here and there. Very few of them looked the same. Wedge and Tycho discussed it in one if the x-wing books.

Granted, non of that counts now so......

Those X-Wing books were awesome, especially Wraith Squadron.

[RAR]

I wasn't suggest anyone buy a saber.

Um...yes you were:

Nope I was suggesting they buy or requisition Saber resistant materials for armour or to fashion a handle and parts. I don't think it's unreasonable that a Jedi Knight be expected to have access to better equipment - as otherwise you are saying a Jedi master is less eligible to good gear than a clone Commando is.

Jedi are issued Credits for their use on Missions I was just pointing out that if one did really great on a mission they could request the credits to buy a saber staff using the excuse that someone needs to maintain the form.

And the Jedi don't get paid for their missions. The biggest reward they can get is moving up the food chain, but it's never about the paycheck for them, it's about keeping the Galaxy from falling apart because it's the right thing to do. We're talking about the Jedi, not the Mandalorians.

Qui Gon had plenty of cash. Nearly enough to buy a Hyperdrive in the outer rim. (don't they have money changers on Tatooine then ?)

I was talking about Mandalorians - that is who I wanted them to buy the armour off after all - but as a main supplier and famed non-fans of Jedi I can see why there might be problems in obtaining Mandalorian iron from them directly. But again I will point out there still isn't any reason they can't use other materials that are burn resistant or use historical parts.

As for the Jedi doing the right thing that is the very definition of "From a certain point of view" George (Primus love him) at least understood to some degree that the Jedi are not perfect beings regardless of what he might put across sometimes in interviews with his Blame the Sith for everything attitude.

But then that remains one on my greatest bones of contention with anyone who has unrealistic standards for the Jedi. I won't get into the whole "Meaning" of Luke's arc either or how The Force Awakens and it's likely it's immediate sequel may be doing a horrible disservice to it depending on how they deal with "Lonely Luke" and his motivations in Episode 8.

[Shadowman]

I wasn't suggest anyone buy a saber.

Um...yes you were:

Nope I was suggesting they buy or requisition Saber resistant materials for armour or to fashion a handle and parts.

Seriously? You didn't even bother to delete the quote where you said exactly that.

Jedi are issued Credits for their use on Missions I was just pointing out that if one did really great on a mission they could request the credits to buy a saber staff using the excuse that someone needs to maintain the form.

Right there, you talk about buying a saber staff. Stop trying to tell me you never said that.

I don't think it's unreasonable that a Jedi Knight be expected to have access to better equipment - as otherwise you are saying a Jedi master is less eligible to good gear than a clone Commando is.

Dude, what gear? The most armor we've ever seen a Jedi wear is the same armor as the Clone Troopers, and the only weapons they ever use are Lightsabers, and they only replace those if it gets destroyed or irretrievably lost.

They have Lightsabers and the Force, the two most powerful weapons in the Galaxy. Vader claimed that the Death Star isn't as powerful as the Force. (And considering the kind of things ancient Sith Lords were capable of, especially Nihlus and Vitiate, it's hard to argue) They don't need powered armor and advanced weapons.

And the Jedi don't get paid for their missions. The biggest reward they can get is moving up the food chain, but it's never about the paycheck for them, it's about keeping the Galaxy from falling apart because it's the right thing to do. We're talking about the Jedi, not the Mandalorians.

Qui Gon had plenty of cash. Nearly enough to buy a Hyperdrive in the outer rim. (don't they have money changers on Tatooine then ?)

Nearly enough to buy a hyperdrive? They never discuss how much he had on him vs. how much a hyperdrive costs.

[ZeroWolf]

All we know about qui gon's finances is what he offers watto and that's that. It also isn't clear if that's even his money or what the queen gave him or even everything that could be found on the ship (or even donated by the staff).

Also it seems that the jedi are mailable after what we were told in the original movies to what lucas did in the prequels. If anything, the force awakens takes jedi back to their awesome status that I thought they had when I was first saw the movies. Again,just my opinions.

[RAR]

[clipped]
Also it seems that the jedi are mailable after what we were told in the original movies to what lucas did in the prequels.
Again,just my opinions.

You don't have to ever apologise for having an opinion, as much as it may sometime seems that is the case online.

But the point you raise is one that has been rattling around in the back of my brain for a while.

Namely lets list the things so I can establish the frame work I was going to simply list them but I think I may instead tackle one at a time.


# 1 : (Early) Star Wars.
This includes The original 1977 Movie, the Novel the "Splinter of the Minds Eye" The Holiday Special and any comics released prior to Empire Strikes Back. Also any materials release "officially" to Sci Fi magazines like StarLog perhaps and vintage interviews in writing or video form and any available scripting notes.

This is a period I'm very keen to research further - as It is of super interest to me (It is even part of the reason for one of my other Movie posts) as the attitudes and idea of that period have HUGELY changed over time.

I would be very interested to find out what is different and what things were a certain way in in Empire Strikes Back.

At this point I'll give a Single Example.

JEDI ROBES : In a New Hope we here it said that Anakin was "a Jedi Knight" (or former Jedi Knight) and a 'Pilot' - he doesn't say "Fighter Pilot" so that is a curious turn of praise to use.

I find this interesting as it could be taken to mean that (version of) Anakin left the Jedi order to become a pilot and fight in the Clone Wars, a statement that can be taken in a number of ways including that he wasn't a Jedi Knight during the Clone Wars or he was only a Pilot after them and so on.... ('Point of view' time again).

The only "Jedi" we see is wearing robes, the only "Sith" we see is also wearing robes and in the next Movies the Emperor is also wearing robes.

So there is two arguments to be made here.

1) All Jedi "Traditionally" wear robes except when undercover. and yet
2) Obi Wan is dress identically to Owan Lars (I.e. Desert garb).

The implication being you can use Vader as Evidence that such types all wear robes or you can use Lars as evidence that it's a common form of casual Dress in the outer Rim Territories and as such being dressed in robes is nothing to remark upon - as seems to be the case with the reaction of the Security Checkpoint - they don't take one look at Obi Wan and go ""Ah a Jedi !!!!" do they.

-------

So when the prequels came around they dressed everyone like Obi Wan with very little variation.

HOWEVER comics made in an earlier time and Novels and the like made before the prequels often said Jedi dressed how they like or often in a jump suit. (like Luke wears on Bespin).

Notice how luke Changes Outfit repeatedly and even if he's not a Jedi Knight as such even what he wears under his cloak can be taken to be nothing specifically Jedi in type.

So for a long time the attitude to what Jedi should wear has been a bit of a head scratcher.

So I will be interested to see if they try to force Rey into a even more Jedi Like garb (they shouldn't she's fine as she is - she can add a cloak but I think they should keep the look).

I see (no joke) a Rey being like a Disney Princess - namely Jasmin as Jas' garb has a distinct style and yet even when she changes clothes (which happens) she still maintains that look (oft with the Harem pants) and similar patches of bare skin - so I think for Rey her "look" is the bare shoulders and they should keep that.

Just as Lukes look was Jumpsuits of one sort or another - in a way it's a shame they felt the need to put him in a robe - but then a 60+ guy in a Jump suit might look a little silly and he does need to look like Obi Wan after all for story reasons. (thus the beard).

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

At this point I'll give a Single Example.

JEDI ROBES : In a New Hope we here it said that Anakin was "a Jedi Knight" (or former Jedi Knight) and a 'Pilot' - he doesn't say "Fighter Pilot" so that is a curious turn of praise to use.

I find this interesting as it could be taken to mean that (version of) Anakin left the Jedi order to become a pilot and fight in the Clone Wars, a statement that can be taken in a number of ways including that he wasn't a Jedi Knight during the Clone Wars or he was only a Pilot after them and so on.... ('Point of view' time again).

The only "Jedi" we see is wearing robes, the only "Sith" we see is also wearing robes and in the next Movies the Emperor is also wearing robes.

So there is two arguments to be made here.

1) All Jedi "Traditionally" wear robes except when undercover. and yet
2) Obi Wan is dress identically to Owan Lars (I.e. Desert garb).

2 things.

in a new hope, Ben describes anikin as the "best star-pilot" he had ever seen
also, in return of the jedi, ben tells luke " "When I first met your father, he was already an accomplished pilot"

Obi Wan is dress similar to Owan Lars but not identical

[RAR]

Obi Wan is dress similar to Owan Lars but not identical

He has different shoes on perhaps ?
I'll put it another way then Luke in a New Hope is dressed more differently from Rey despite Rey being partially based on a "Prototype" of Luke's character design, than Obi Wan is from Owan Lars.

That there is minor differences isn't the issue - the issue I am raising is the one many people wonder about :

"Is Obi Wan Dressed in Jedi Robes" or is
"Ben Kenobi Dressed in Desert Robes" .

Both those have "Consequences" depending on the answer - and Yes I fully realise the Prequels established that Jedi Wear Robes.

HOWEVER we are in a new situation where Disney wishes to seemingly at least in part distance itself from the Prequels. So going forwards they have a number of choices.

So lets say we see more of a flashback the Jedi Academy massacre by the Knights of Ren (if that was what Rey saw).. how should the students be dressed.

1) Like Luke was in Empire Strikes back
2) Like the Padawan in Episode 2 (who Luke has never seen)

We know how Jedi Dress (supposedly) but Luke doesn't - he's only seen Obi Wan - and he may have thought he was dress normally for any one of his age on Tatooine.

So I guess what I am taking about here is not just Lukes choices - but personal choices of his students (i.e. how controlling is Luke) and Disney's Choices of what they want Jedi to look like for marketing purposes going forwards.

Notice in Rebels people don't usually wear robes do they
(yes I know there is reasons for that).

[Shadowman]

JEDI ROBES : In a New Hope we here it said that Anakin was "a Jedi Knight" (or former Jedi Knight) and a 'Pilot' - he doesn't say "Fighter Pilot" so that is a curious turn of praise to use.

I find this interesting as it could be taken to mean that (version of) Anakin left the Jedi order to become a pilot and fight in the Clone Wars, a statement that can be taken in a number of ways including that he wasn't a Jedi Knight during the Clone Wars or he was only a Pilot after them and so on.... ('Point of view' time again).

They also said Vader killed Anakin. They were lying to Luke to protect him. Occam's Razor.

The only "Jedi" we see is wearing robes, the only "Sith" we see is also wearing robes and in the next Movies the Emperor is also wearing robes.

Huh? What do you mean "The only"? We see two of each in the original trilogy; Obi-Wan and Yoda on one side (And they're both dressed the same) and Vader and Palpatine on the other. Vader isn't even wearing robes, he's wearing full armor.

You...don't have a very good memory of Star Wars.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Obi Wan is dress similar to Owan Lars but not identical

He has different shoes on perhaps ?

no different robes

old bens robes extend down his legs covering then all the way to his feet
owen has a short shirt similar to lukes, you can see oiwens wearing pants clearly

but onto your point...................

That there is minor differences isn't the issue - the issue I am raising is the one many people wonder about :

"Is Obi Wan Dressed in Jedi Robes" or is
"Ben Kenobi Dressed in Desert Robes" .

but that question was answered before the pre-quals

"the empire strikes back" first answered it by showing us Yodas not to different robes
"return of the jedi" also answered that question by showing us old Anikins force ghost in the same robes

so even if Disney does distance itself from the Prequels......................the answer to that question was given in the original 3 films.

So going forwards Luke knows how a Jedi is dressed

and theres no reason to assume he doesnt know how a padawan is dressed as well.

[RAR]

Let me put it another way - is the Jedi Robes specific to Jedi or might they be similar to vestments worn by others (I'm speaking about the future now) like what does a member of the Church of the Force Wear.

And I will also just mention again why don't the Stormtrooper recognise a Jedi?
Is it because they were not expecting to find any ?

I've always wondered are they troops here from the local garrison or from a search party from Vader's ship - they could easily be either.

If they are from Vaders ship they should be we aware of what a Jedi is as it's only relatively short period since Vader would have been using his ship to chase them around the place to pick up the stragglers - I always got the impression it took him most of the previous 16 years to find and kill them all.

Also I will exclude Yoda from my thought experiment as I was specifically talking about Star wars seen through the lens of The 1977-1979 to pre-Empire Strike back - in short I was discussing what George was thinking of before he got a Sequel Green lit.

I think it's a fair question to ask though - Should Lukes Jedi be dressed like Jedi ?
if he wants to keep a low profile then perhaps not - if he wanted to them to be a symbol of something then likely the answer is yes.

More specifically I'm postulating that despite what Obi Wan wears in the Phantom Menace perhaps a better way to deal with the Jedi (in the Future) is to only put someone in the robes when they have past some tests - in the prequels even the kids dress like that.

I think that was a mistake - though I understand why the do it - (Jet Lucas son) who is cut down by the clone Troopers on the landing deck for example isn't wearing a robe. He's actually dressed a lot like New Hope Luke.

I find this whole thought a curious one as you used to be able to argue that Jedi Robes were just typical New Republic casual dress (bar the top brown outer robe perhaps)... this can be partly supported by how Anakin dresses differently to Obi Wan in both colour and cut.


I just get to wondering maybe the only important part is the hooded cloak and everything else is flexible - Unless Anakin is breaking the dress code on purpose as he's a agrogant person and it's another example of his hubris being a path to a fall.

----

Speaking of Aanakin- you sure do a feel a lot more sympathetic for him - child murders and all once you speculate if his Mother was assaulted on purpose, and potentially Palpatine use his Sith powers to remotely kill Padme.

We still don't really know what Sith can do fully - heck there is still some vague spots about the Jedi too.

So plenty of story potential there going forwards... Like Can Rey speak Droid because of the Force or just because of the script needing it - and there for they didn't think it through?

I have to ask that as it's a JJ abrams Movie and attention to detail or delegating important tasks to someone with authority who does the job well are not his strong suits so far.

That is why having such different directors for the 'Sequels' may make for very interesting end results - even if they end up being as terrible as Indiana Jones got - they can still be an entertaining train wreck if it wall goes hyper casual and causes a catastrophe to the franchise by virtue of loosing some thing crucial in the desire to appeal to the mass Market.

But then there is as many people who say JJ Abrams saved Star Trek as say he destroyed it.. so in a way it's good he's taking a very large step back now.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

well, given all that i can only add this.

i dont think Luke would want to be going with a low profile...i think he would want his students to be a symbol of something better

but i dont think "robes" are needed for that

[RAR]

Disney + Star Wars talk always ends up reminding me of this :



I dislike that Thumbnail as it has nothing to do with Frozen other than the Song it's ripping off - the Thumbnail implies otherwise though and likely has put some people off even clicking on it unless they like Both Disney & Star Wars.

It was a long time before I clicked on it for that very reason.