The Energon Pub

Burn wrote:

Ultra Prime wrote:What really bothers me though are comments like these;
"egos of simpering elitist fanboys who will pay any price to feel special."
"G1 fanboys that have nothing better to spend their money on."
(These comments are from boards on other TF sites, not Seibertron.com)

While people may be offended by those comments, the fact of the matter is, there are some people in the "fandom" that actually deserve it.

Seibertron.com is fortunately free of such elitism but I know that if you say ANYTHING bad about Hasbro or Master Collector they'll jump on you like unpaid sycophants.

Why?

Because they're selfish and ignorant. They only look at their own collection, they don't give a fudge about the average every day collector who can only afford a figure every couple of weeks.

But that doesn't matter to these "elitists", they have the money to spend, so why should they care if a fellow fan can't afford it?

THAT is the attitude that pisses me off. Admittedly it's NOT a common attitude on this site (thankfully. In fact most BotCon attending members here have been more than willing to help others who can't attend by grabbing a second set) but it's the Hasbro and Master Collector butt kissing over-rich sycophants that makes me disappointed to be associated with this "fandom".

Oh and if you're sick of the complaints, don't read them. The BotCon stuff is NOTHING compared to what a pro-movie supporter like myself has seen and read over the last year.

See, this is what I don't understand, why are we "elitist" because we can afford the figures? From my perspective, this is jealousy. Plus if you are buying one figure every few weeks, that means you aren't completing series, but selecting the figures you find attractive to buy. So based on that you are saying that any figure you find attractive should me made available to you at the easiest means neccesary. That's not fair and that would stifle toy manufacturers creativity.

And of course I only look at my own collection, why should I care about yours? I only collect for my personal enjoyment, I could care less if you like my collection or even know I have one. And why am I a Hasbro butt-kisser? Because I am what you call "an over-rich sycophant" that buys their figures? Again, jealousy on your part. I am not sorry for having a good job. I work hard and deserve what I have. In fact based on the amount of time I have been collecting, I figure I have purchased 1 figure a day for the last 3 years. So what ever is produced, I buy because that is my hobby. I also have other hobbies, like cars, but I never realized with those that I might be making others upset because I have a faster car or what not. I never new that was a prerequisite for having a hobby. In fact on car forums, it is the ones who have the ability to go crazy and do something first that are considered the least selfish because they are taking a chance and providing information to the fandom that would cost others thousands to find out.

So my advice to you is to get over it. This is reality, we all can't have everything we want. I made a post at the beginning of this thread to keep it positive, but you had to come in here with your selfish remarks. Now stop posting in this thread if your only posts are going to be negative towards those who intend on enjoying BotCon and the figures they offer. Go back to the other thread if you want to make these posts.

Hasbro has never been the brightest company they could have continued after g1 with headmaster victory and masterforce and had a power rangers style franchise were when one group grows out of the show a new group started collecting and watching the show. But this whole seeker thing is just another example of hasbro less then brillent business plan. Because they must of seen somewhere or heard fans say gee I wish they would have completed the seekers with thundercracker, sunstorm, durge and thrust. Rather than do a exlusive box set to some store like tru, target or walmart they decide to try to reach as few people as possible. But that is just my feelings on the subject

shortround wrote:Hasbro has never been the brightest company they could have continued after g1 with headmaster victory and masterforce and had a power rangers style franchise were when one group grows out of the show a new group started collecting and watching the show. But this whole seeker thing is just another example of hasbro less then brillent business plan. Because they must of seen somewhere or heard fans say gee I wish they would have completed the seekers with thundercracker, sunstorm, durge and thrust. Rather than do a exlusive box set to some store like tru, target or walmart they decide to try to reach as few people as possible. But that is just my feelings on the subject

Not really. The problem with all these arguments is that Hasbro has basically discontinued Classics. So if they did produce a test shot with intentions of coming out with it, but never did, we'd all be screwed. Remember the G2 Stunticons, what did they go for $2000 a piece? I think that is less fair than a BotCon Exclusive.

Attacking people is never any good (it's happened to me 3 times on this board alone), but the fact of the matter is, if no one was willing to pay that exorbitant price, it wouldn't cost that much.

But some people don't care how much it costs, is willing to pay anything (why else would MIB G1's go for $1000s on eBay!?), which is why poor people like me and the ill-mouthed attackers can't afford to enjoy a freaking toy.

TENIME_art wrote:Attacking people is never any good (it's happened to me 3 times on this board alone), but the fact of the matter is, if no one was willing to pay that exorbitant price, it wouldn't cost that much.

But some people don't care how much it costs, is willing to pay anything (why else would MIB G1's go for $1000s on eBay!?), which is why poor people like me and the ill-mouthed attackers can't afford to enjoy a freaking toy.

If people attack you, please PM me or another moderator as personal attacks are not acceptable under any circumstance. Often people disagree with each other in the heat of a debate and that is the nature of a discussion, but personal attacks are not acceptable.

But regardless, your post states that if people wouldn't buy them, they wouldn't cost that much, but such is the law of demand. There are plenty of people that will buy them at that price and do so, these are the facts. All it takes is for at least two people to want something for the price to go up. Look at e-bay, some people list a G1 MISB figure for $1 and the auction can end at $1000. The seller is not doing anything to influence it, it is all the buyers involved.

Ouch! This thread is getting a little hot. Sorry Getterdragun, I wanted to make a point and foster some constructive discussion about this. But I can see from this thread that there are some of us still feeling pretty hot over Hasbro's & Botcon's decision. Although a part of me honestly can't blame some of the fandom for feeling snubbed.

I must say for the record though that you make some excellent points that I definitely agree with. I have a good paying job as well and work very hard. That kind of sucks if there are fellow collectors out there that feel just because people like you and I can buy figures and add to our collections pretty regularly that we're elitist. I would hope that I am accepted among fellow TF fans as a fellow collector just like anyone else.

Don't worry Ultra Prime. Let's try to keep this on track. ANybody want to take some guesses on what the customizing figure will be?

If you mean the suprise figure for people that attend the convention I'm betting Sunstorm. It is a simple repaint of Starscream/Skywarp and fits the Decepticon Airforce theme they've got going for this set.

Since word is a Voyager figure will be included in the set and this is a Decepticon airforce I'd bet the following;
Astrotrain = Bugbite
Jetfire = Dreadwing

Any other thoughts?

daaayum.if this means that hasbro believes there is interest in the line by having these exculsives and gives the tf department a bigger budget, then hey, i'm all for it. i am unable to go, and lack any means of getting there, but hey, i am happy for the people who will go and enjoy themselves at this wonderful tribute to the transformers success.

but this whole issue has snapped, cracked and beaten by view of the board. before i thought we were the insecticomics in fandom form, none to serious, a bit lacking in the sanity department, but we get by on a series of flukes. ypu know who you are. if you a a bit miffed to say the least, thenn i say: DEAL WITH IT! they are plastic figures, in a plastic toyline of fictional transforming robots and if it bothers you so much, buy a starscream and 2 ramjets, kitbash/repaint them and STFU. thewn dso the same for the others as they are revealed.





sorry if i was out of line. if nessacery delete this post as you see fit.

Vile MK III wrote:wow, I didn't know Sunstorm had fans.

He's the Boba Fett of Transformers.

All I have to say on this subject is that the bonus figure better be Sunstorm or I am going to be bloody pissed!

Ultra Prime wrote:I can tell you this Burn, you and alot of other people may be right about one thing. Hasbro has screwed themselves on the Classics line to some degree. They've taken a line that even though was a filler line was also OBVIOUSLY a nod to collectors and tanked themselves by releasing some highly demanded characters as expensive convention exclusives.

The thing is though, how successful is the Classics line?

The first wave seem to be hanging around like flys on a sheep's butt and then they put out the Starscream/Hot Rod two pack and I don't see those things moving for a while.

It took Target here in Australia forever to get rid of the MP Ultra Magnuses they had in for the "importing from Japan" experiment and THAT was aimed at collectors.

So in reality, a general release for them may not have paid off with many figures left on the shelves (I've always known that despite my objections). HOWEVER, I still feel they could have found a way for them to be released even if they were held off for up to 6 months or so.

GetterDragun wrote:See, this is what I don't understand, why are we "elitist" because we can afford the figures? From my perspective, this is jealousy. Plus if you are buying one figure every few weeks, that means you aren't completing series, but selecting the figures you find attractive to buy. So based on that you are saying that any figure you find attractive should me made available to you at the easiest means neccesary. That's not fair and that would stifle toy manufacturers creativity.

I'm not quite sure how to react to all this GD. See, I don't consider YOU an "elitist". In fact i'd be hard pressed to name anyone on this site an elitist.

I have close to a thousand TF's, complete and near complete BW, MW, BM, Armada, Energon, Cybertron, G2 and a good chunk of G1 collection plus a near complete Marvel UK comic collection, yet I don't make an issue out of it, but i've seen others that do, i've seen one person not acknowledge you as a fellow collector unless you have as many TF's as him or more. And then there are those who don't acknowledge you as a fellow fan unless you were there when Ben Yee convinced everyone Beast Wars was a good thing and then joined in to help pitch idea for the show. Or those that only hang out on alt.toys.transformers because they think TF forums are populated by idiotic fans who have jumped on the bandwagon. THAT is what I call elitism.

My post was aimed at those with the "HAHA! I can go to BotCon and get these exclusives and you can't so suck it!" and treating fellow collectors with contempt attitude, and I highly doubt you're one of those folk GD. But if you took offense to what I said then I apologise.

Without a dedicated cartoon in syndication, or an aggressive ad campaign during kid's programming (that's a guess, I don't watch CN anymore), I'd say Classics is as successful as Hasbro wanted it to be. It has been successful in a) sparking a good deal of conversation among older, established collectors and b) bringing collectors or enthusiasts back into the fold after a long absence (like me). Time that with the movie release, and no matter what the profit line is, I think Classics is a win/win.

So, yeah, it's disappointing they take the win/win for everybody and make it a win/win only if you spend the big bucks. But that's business. I agree with Burn that there must be a way to get these figures to market wihtout going this route. Selling them for $35 apiece off HasbroToyShop, in limited quantities would be one way, or getting a numbered release through a BBTS or HLJ would be another.

I plan to repaint a Screamer and a couple Ramjets, but honestly, how many casual collectors are gonna do that? Just because I have the time to do it, doesn't mean someone working 40hr work week w/ responsibilitites is gonna drop $30-$40 on figs he already owns + $20-$60 in paint supplies, plus 10-20 hours of his own free time to get nice-looking copies of figures he thinks (correctly or incorrectly) he should have been able to purchase for $10 a piece right off the shelf. There are people who don't know a color wheel from a steering wheel, and telling them to quit whining and paint their own figs is just as elitist as telling people to drop the $300+ and deal with it.

Fang Wolf wrote:Also the other complaint should be how hard it's going to be for people not in the US to get the blasted plastic planes, especialy when the person on the reigns of the money doesn't like eBay too much.

There is an oucry from collectors for Thundercracker, hasbro anwered this in an awful way to the poor and the non-us citizens, there is no excuse, to be honest, they should make a line like Kiss players is in Japan, for collectors, not kids, pitty that shops like price hykes and emplying morons.

You could always ask somebody who is going there to buy you a set, and have them ship it to you. Just be sure to find a reputable person if you are going to pay for it beforehand.

Asderiphel wrote:Without a dedicated cartoon in syndication, or an aggressive ad campaign during kid's programming (that's a guess, I don't watch CN anymore), I'd say Classics is as successful as Hasbro wanted it to be. It has been successful in a) sparking a good deal of conversation among older, established collectors and b) bringing collectors or enthusiasts back into the fold after a long absence (like me). Time that with the movie release, and no matter what the profit line is, I think Classics is a win/win.

So, yeah, it's disappointing they take the win/win for everybody and make it a win/win only if you spend the big bucks. But that's business. I agree with Burn that there must be a way to get these figures to market wihtout going this route. Selling them for $35 apiece off HasbroToyShop, in limited quantities would be one way, or getting a numbered release through a BBTS or HLJ would be another.

I plan to repaint a Screamer and a couple Ramjets, but honestly, how many casual collectors are gonna do that? Just because I have the time to do it, doesn't mean someone working 40hr work week w/ responsibilitites is gonna drop $30-$40 on figs he already owns + $20-$60 in paint supplies, plus 10-20 hours of his own free time to get nice-looking copies of figures he thinks (correctly or incorrectly) he should have been able to purchase for $10 a piece right off the shelf. There are people who don't know a color wheel from a steering wheel, and telling them to quit whining and paint their own figs is just as elitist as telling people to drop the $300+ and deal with it.

Exactly. To say that it's a simple matter of supply and demand is at best gross oversimplification. If that were the case there wouldn't be such a debate and I don't recall a similar reaction resulting from past exclusive sets. Of course there were those who wanted the Deszarus/Gigatron remould, the pre-Beast Wars figures, etc. and either couldn't afford them or justify the price, but the response was generally envy as opposed to anger. Those who couldn't get them generally accepted that the market couldn't support a profitable, larger release, and the cost was a result of a small production run catering to a tiny market.

In this case if the Seekers were available individually, produced to reflect demand, and priced to reflect the cost of production, the cost would be down considerably. Hell, if they were to sell the seekers individually at the current per-figure price people would probably pay for it. The problem is that Mastercollector is selling the figures, as a set, including figures with far less demand, at a preset pricepoint based on typical convention-set demand. Of course this is in their best business interest (as they are a business first and foremost) but it doesn't speak well for Hasbro's relationship with the older casual collectors that they would allow it.

To say that it had to be either this or nothing is also a gorss oversimplification as Hasbro has, in the past, sold exclusives via other routes. If general mass-market retail or convention exclusive were the only two options businesses like DC Direct would have folded months after releasing their first series. Even McFarlane toys sells affordable, individual exclusives via it's website, including entirely new moulds.

Classics, at least here in Southern California, sold extremely well last fall. I don't know about the post-Christmas season but if the line has faltered the blame lies entirely on Hasbro and their decision to cut the line short regardless of sales. If the line had been longer they could have shuffled repaints/remoulds in later rather than sooner and rotated case assortments to better reflect demands. Kids generally lose interest in a line they know to be ending, especially if the characters they want (such as Grimlock) are difficult to find without driving from store to store. You need to keep a variety of characters on the shelves to appeal to kids. Adults, too, will postpone buying figures from a line that's been axed not just because they're afraid their collections will feel incomplete (Thundercracker) but because they know that if they wait they can probably get them on clearance. The Ultra Magnus/Skywarp 2-pack was just silly on Target's part because of timing. Post-Christmas and weeks before inventory audit is the worst time to put new merchandise out.

I think people are forgetting that these gigures will be available individually from onlin toy shops as well as e-bay from reputable sellers. No, they aren't making 100,000 of these, so the price is higher. But after every BotCon it was fairly easy to get a single figure at a low price.

these are going to be alot easier to get than the attendee exclusives. You think people are upset now but imagine if they or any other main character is made to an attendee only, those are the ones that get stuipdly expensive.

Out of curiosity though, what do you think the post-Botcon price is going to be, walking right out the convention doors into the movie hype machine? I mean, are they realistically going to be available for $50-$75 apiece, or is it spend $329 now on five figures or spend $375 on 3 figures later?

I'm not saying they won't be available, or the price won't be competitve, I'm just wondering how viable an option that's going to be for people who already have a financial concern.

I wasn't collecting when the Botcon Ratchet & Ironhide were available. Had I known, I would have purchased them, but I've just recently 'returned to the fold'. Now, they're out of my price range. As more G1 and oldschool fans get sucked back in through Classics, Titaniums, or more likely, the movie, do you think this Seeker set will have a gradual price increase, or a sudden, sustained price increase?

Honestly curious about this one.

well you can join the club (or not but really its the same price) and get the 2005 boxed set and the 2006 one they are both still available and at the same price they were released. Only thing you can't get are the attendee ones and since the seekers aren't attendee only there is still a good chance to get the boxed set after the con.

Only people that want to overpay on ebay are the ones that refuse to buy from the club. Each to their own really.

The sets themselves on ebay go for about the same price give or take a small amount depending on bidding.

So it isn't really as bad as many are making it out to be, could be alot worse.

Hey, worse case scenario, you can always use your first social secutiy check on a missed botcon figure.

But I'm under the impression (based on the current Botcon Ratchet thread and my ebay watching) that both Ironhide and Ratchet have increased in price signifcantly since their release. And I'm guessing that the box set runs $200-$250ish, plus the $40 fee to sign up for the club? For the Axalon crew, that might be worth it, but it seems excessive for just the Ironhide. Yeah, you could sell off the rest, but it looks like you're really only going to get back $100-$150 of the investment, maybe, and then you're still spending $100-140 on the Ironhide, which is technically the same as buying him solo off ebay. Hunting down the '05 set seems like a better bet, but it doesn't appear you're saving alot of money.

Back to the discussion at hand, a guy on a budget who wants his seekers is still looking at the same barrier: price. I guess the real point I'm getting at is, for the people who have to wait or simply can't afford to pony up the $329 for the set initially, what's the guesstimate on how much Thundercracker's gonna run by his lonesome? Thrust? Will the numbers of bagged sets drive down the cost to a palatable level?

And we can hope that the attendee figs aren't things like "Hey, we remolded Mirage & Rodimus into Arcee & Sideswipe, isn't that great?"

Bonger wrote:Hey, worse case scenario, you can always use your first social secutiy check on a missed botcon figure.

That made my night. Thanks.

Asderiphel wrote:But I'm under the impression (based on the current Botcon Ratchet thread and my ebay watching) that both Ironhide and Ratchet have increased in price signifcantly since their release. And I'm guessing that the box set runs $200-$250ish, plus the $40 fee to sign up for the club? For the Axalon crew, that might be worth it, but it seems excessive for just the Ironhide. Yeah, you could sell off the rest, but it looks like you're really only going to get back $100-$150 of the investment, maybe, and then you're still spending $100-140 on the Ironhide, which is technically the same as buying him solo off ebay. Hunting down the '05 set seems like a better bet, but it doesn't appear you're saving alot of money.

Back to the discussion at hand, a guy on a budget who wants his seekers is still looking at the same barrier: price. I guess the real point I'm getting at is, for the people who have to wait or simply can't afford to pony up the $329 for the set initially, what's the guesstimate on how much Thundercracker's gonna run by his lonesome? Thrust? Will the numbers of bagged sets drive down the cost to a palatable level?

And we can hope that the attendee figs aren't things like "Hey, we remolded Mirage & Rodimus into Arcee & Sideswipe, isn't that great?"

My guess would be a bare minimum of $70-$80 per seeker due to middleman costs. The immediate post-convention price is probably going to depend heavily on whether or not the other 2 additional characters are a hard sell because if they are the cost is going to get laid on the seekers.

Asderiphel wrote:

Bonger wrote:Hey, worse case scenario, you can always use your first social secutiy check on a missed botcon figure.

That made my night. Thanks.

lol, that is actually my general view on collecting. I never get upset about missing stuff as I figure, my icome will increase as I grow older and I'm sure I will be able to afford to pick up a few missed items with much less economic strain in 10 years.

Is there a good chance of this stuff showing up in the Collector's Club shop? I don't mind waiting a few years, I've just never really taken and interest in Botcon exclusives before now so I'm pretty unfamiliar with how annoying this can get....