The Energon Pub

Ok, this is my first topic since I'm new here and this has to do with something I read on wikipedia.org that bothers me about the animated G1 movie. Here it is: "Free of the restrictions of television, the movie featured many character deaths (Optimus Prime, Brawn, Ironhide, Ratchet, Wheeljack, Windcharger, Prowl, Huffer and Starscream), as the old guard were wiped out to make room for the next generation of toys. Megatron, Skywarp, Thundercracker, and the Insecticons were remodeled into Galvatron, Cyclonus, Scourge and the Sweeps by a planet-sized Transformer known as Unicron. Megatron and Thundercracker clearly became Galvatron and Scourge, but there is debate as to who actually became Cyclonus, Bombshell or Skywarp. (If all logic is taken into account Skywarp would have comprised the role of Cyclonus due to the fact that the two Seekers, Thundercracker & Skywarp are replaced by Scourge & Cyclonus in the Transformers 2010 toy catalog & that the Insecticons are able to replicate themselves to infinite numbers, in which the Sweeps in the 2010 series numbers at least to eight)." My argument with this that you can't really "clearly" tell who becomes Scourge, so going on that wiki's theory then Skywarp would be the logical change for that role. As for Cyclonus, Bombshell "clearly" becomes Cyclonus. I know that site is not the most reliable source for info but I've seen that movie countless times since I was a little kid in 1986 and even at 9 years old I could figure out who became Cyclonus!If I missed something all these years then someone please correct me.

Both of them do.

Watch closly, cause they both turn into the same animation model (Cyclonus) which to quote Unicron
"Cyclonus and his armada".
The bigger question you should be asking is which one became the soon to be missing armada!?

ThunderThruster wrote:Both of them do.

Watch closly, cause they both turn into the same animation model (Cyclonus) which to quote Unicron
"Cyclonus and his armada".
The bigger question you should be asking is which one became the soon to be missing armada!?

Yep, right around 1:20 on this clip.

Wow, I kind of see it now. It's funny because I never really looked closely at the armada, I always figured that was one of the Sweeps. I also noticed looking closely at the vid @ 1:20 you can kind of make out that it's Skywarp but the color flashes by pretty quickly so I'm going to try the dvd and using zoom & slow mo and see if I can see it better. If indeed that's the case then Thundercracker is Scourge then. So yes, the real question indeed is who is the Armada? Thanks!

I recently discovered some pretty good evidence that should close this case. On the decal sheet for Masterpiece Skywarp there are stickers of Cyclonus. Why else would they be there? Skywarp becoming Cyclonus makes sense.

As for the whole armada thing, there is something that just doesn't make any sense. The definition of "armada" means a large fleet of ships. Since when is one ship considered a large fleet?

Also, during the transformation, you see Scourge and two Sweeps made. But at the end of the scene you see three Sweeps fly off with Scourge. So aparantly, the Bombshell Cyclonus became a sweep in a matter of seconds.

There are a ton of messups in the original shows. Just yesterday I was watching an episode from season one and in one scene they had an autobot symbol on Soundwave's chest.

Ya'll might wanna look here:
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Cyclonus_%28G1%29#Who_is_Cyclonus.3F

And here:
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Cyclonus%27s_Armada

The info on these two pages seems to show more evidence of Bombshell's corpse becoming Cyclonus than Skywarp's.

Thundercracker and Skywarp was among the crowd of Starscream`s coronation. Those seekers which were thrown out of Astrotrain might be possible seekers with similar colours as TC and SW. Those seekers didn`t talk anything during movie. Neither used TF:s or SW:s special powers, like teleportation.. Early episodes of TF-cartoon there was huge amount of anomymous seekers, many of them have almost same coloration as Thundercracker. Shockwave also had lots of seekers under his command. Thundercracker had tomb at Decepticon crypt on Season 3, maybe he was shot down by Unicron? Skywarp might have survived. Insecticons can be seen during beginning of Season 3, plus at least one clone insecticon.
Most believe that insecticons thrown out of Astrotrain were clones... Decepticons, if necessary, might get more insecticons and seeker warriors from Cybetron ( in 2005 they have conquered whole planet, so likely there would been huge armada of different types decepticons)

I just made some speculations that most of those mentioned characters might survived at Season 3, and fans can sleep well at nights...

orn14 wrote:Thundercracker and Skywarp was among the crowd of Starscream`s coronation. Those seekers which were thrown out of Astrotrain might be possible seekers with similar colours as TC and SW. Those seekers didn`t talk anything during movie. Neither used TF:s or SW:s special powers, like teleportation.. Early episodes of TF-cartoon there was huge amount of anomymous seekers, many of them have almost same coloration as Thundercracker. Shockwave also had lots of seekers under his command. Thundercracker had tomb at Decepticon crypt on Season 3, maybe he was shot down by Unicron? Skywarp might have survived. Insecticons can be seen during beginning of Season 3, plus at least one clone insecticon.
Most believe that insecticons thrown out of Astrotrain were clones... Decepticons, if necessary, might get more insecticons and seeker warriors from Cybetron ( in 2005 they have conquered whole planet, so likely there would been huge armada of different types decepticons)

I just made some speculations that most of those mentioned characters might survived at Season 3, and fans can sleep well at nights...

And you do realize that a good amount of those generic seekers and Insecticons seen in early season 1 and early season 3 were part of massive animation errors. The movie wasn't without these errors too. And those three seekers working for shockwave were the Rainmakers (Acid Storm is the green one).

Oh, will the throes of death ever wrap its icy tentacles around this question, 25 years strong with no end in sight?

The info on these two pages seems to show more evidence of Bombshell's corpse becoming Cyclonus than Skywarp's.

I know we fans want to to believe that Megatron's loyal lackey(Skywarp) would be the one pegged to become Galvatron's loyal sidekick(Cyclonus). Thundercracker became Scourge and it is heresey to believe that an Insecticon(those same characters who usually ended up fighting the 'Cons more than the Autobots in the TV series, it seems) would become a loyal lieutenant like Cyclonus.

However, it clearly is Bombshell in the foregroud and the "Armada" Cyclonus(Skywarp) who is behind him just decides to drift off-screen, never to be seen again. It's there.

However, I'm glad you mentioned the word "corpse" since this ultimately makes this whole argument moot. From all indications, the Seekers and Insecticons were dead, floating in space with Megatron. Therefore, their bodies are just used to make Cyclonus, Scourge, and the Sweeps. There is no indication of personality transfers and there shouldn't be. Those characters were dead and just used as material for new 'Cons. In the end, it really doesn't matter who became who.

Let's face it, when the Animated Movie was made, the writers didn't even realize the impact Optimus Prime's death would have on the fan base; somehow clarifying if Skywarp became Cyclonus probably wasn't high on their agenda.

Most believe that insecticons thrown out of Astrotrain were clones...

Who is "most"?

Why not attack Autobot City, then, with a whole army of Insecticons clones? The TV not only showed this as possible, but showed the Insecticons with a stunning array of powers that would have short work of Autobots that now died with a single blast.

Let's face it, Thundercracker, Skywarp, and the Insecticons were pushed aside to sell new toys of new characters. Simple as that. Any reappearance of them is just one of many animation errors in a movie chock full of them.

Wouldn't it make sense for Bombshell to be the 'Armada' since he has the ability to replicate himself? He could make an army out of himself...

Zombie Starscream wrote:Wouldn't it make sense for Bombshell to be the 'Armada' since he has the ability to replicate himself? He could make an army out of himself...

The 'Armada' never replacated itself. It showed up once as a single entity, and then was never seen again.

I never understood whey they didn't just fix Optimus like they did Ultra Magnus.

Thats cause Perceptors not as adept at repairs as the Junkions!

TechnoSeeds wrote:I never understood whey they didn't just fix Optimus like they did Ultra Magnus.

Prime was the old toy, Mags was the new. Same reason Springer didn't die when he was disassembled by the garbage sweeper on Goo in 'FFOD'.

DecepticonsAttack77 wrote:I know that site is not the most reliable source for info but I've seen that movie countless times since I was a little kid in 1986 and even at 9 years old I could figure out who became Cyclonus!If I missed something all these years then someone please correct me.

Its not that you missed something.

The reason why there is a debate over the issue is because its just not "definitively clear" who became whom.

In the scene in which Cyclonus and his clone [Armada] were created there were decepticons.

Skywarp [in the back ground] and Bombshell [in the foreground].

Now logically most would think that the character in the foreground should be the one that became Cyclonus.

But the film is replete with so many animation errors that we cant assume the most logical answer is the right one.

Scorpulator wrote:
As for the whole armada thing, there is something that just doesn't make any sense. The definition of "armada" means a large fleet of ships. Since when is one ship considered a large fleet?

The original concept was for Cyclonus to have a group of "look alikes" just like Scourge did with the sweeps.

As a matter of fact, in the season 3 episode "5 faces of darkness" you can see about 5 or 6 members of Cyclonus'es Armada group.

Zombie Starscream wrote:Wouldn't it make sense for Bombshell to be the 'Armada' since he has the ability to replicate himself? He could make an army out of himself...

Yes it would make sense.

But its hard to make sense of the G1 toon and its errors.

Sabrblade wrote:The 'Armada' never replacated itself. It showed up once as a single entity, and then was never seen again.

Not entirely accurate.

A group of Cyclonus look a likes were seen in "5 faces of darkness".

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:The 'Armada' never replacated itself. It showed up once as a single entity, and then was never seen again.

Not entirely accurate.

A group of Cyclonus look a likes were seen in "5 faces of darkness".

I was referring to throughout the duration of the movie. The rest of the season 3 can be summed up with possible 'Armadas' or more animation errors.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:The 'Armada' never replacated itself. It showed up once as a single entity, and then was never seen again.

Not entirely accurate.

A group of Cyclonus look a likes were seen in "5 faces of darkness".

I was referring to throughout the duration of the movie. The rest of the season 3 can be summed up with possible 'Armadas' or more animation errors.

Ahhh.

Well in that case I have a "possibile" sighting of Armada in the film after he was created.

Durring the 2nd attack on Autobot city,when the Autobot shuttles were taking off, it looks like 2 "Cyclonus's" are attacking the last shuttle to leave.

Keep in mind that I'm saying "possible" not factual.

I prefer to think of Cyclonus as being created from Skywarp, for symmetry's sake. I have no evidence to support my opinion. All fiction points the opposite way. I just choose to ignore it. Sorta like Star Trek Nemesis.

I also agree with No Death For Prowl. Megatron->Galvatron is the only meaningful transformation. He is the only one whose two forms can be considered "the same guy," as Astrotrain says. Skywarp, Thundercracker and the Insecticons are dead.

Here's my question: Would this thread even exist if Skywarp was in the foreground and Bombshell in the background? I don't think it would.

Go Skywarp!

ThunderThruster wrote:Both of them do.

Watch closly, cause they both turn into the same animation model (Cyclonus) which to quote Unicron
"Cyclonus and his armada".
The bigger question you should be asking is which one became the soon to be missing armada!?

I just like to go with the idea that they both became cyclonus.

If I was asked to redo the scene, I'd have bombshell and skywarp both be badly damaged, missing parts, near death, and have them be fused together to become cyclonus.

Sabrblade wrote:Ya'll might wanna look here:
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Cyclonus_%28G1%29#Who_is_Cyclonus.3F

And here:
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Cyclonus%27s_Armada

The info on these two pages seems to show more evidence of Bombshell's corpse becoming Cyclonus than Skywarp's.

You know, I never considered those guys were actually dead. They were alive when they were turfed out of Astrotrain I just assumed they had survived in some form of state, like Megatron until they were reformatted.

So, its then a very interesting point, as mentioned already, that they were simply raw materials for the construction of Cyclonus et al.

But yeah, as much as I would like it to be Skywarp or TC or someone I "like" to be reformatted, the cold harsh reality is it was that sinker Bombshell. I don't like the insecticons, but I can't argue with canon.

This is one of those silly fandom arguments that will likely never be resolved.

That being said, I'm Pro-Bombshell. I've always had a soft spot for the Insecticons.

Like I said before, Masterpiece Skywarp comes with Cyclonus stickers. What more proof would anyone need? As far as I'm concerned, it's case closed.

Scorpulator wrote:Like I said before, Masterpiece Skywarp comes with Cyclonus stickers. What more proof would anyone need? As far as I'm concerned, it's case closed.

"What more proof would anyone need? ",

How about some actual proof.

Your so called "proof" amounts to nothing since both "Armada" and "Cyclonus" shared the same exact body design.

So any sticker that you claim is "Cyclonus can be equally argued to be "Armada".

Even if one of the stickers say's the "name" Cyclonus it could be argued that since Armadas was part of Cyclonus'es personal troop, the name was placed there to honor his commander.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Scorpulator wrote:Like I said before, Masterpiece Skywarp comes with Cyclonus stickers. What more proof would anyone need? As far as I'm concerned, it's case closed.

"What more proof would anyone need? ",

How about some actual proof.

Your so called "proof" amounts to nothing since both "Armada" and "Cyclonus" shared the same exact body design.

So any sticker that you claim is "Cyclonus can be equally argued to be "Armada".

Even if one of the stickers say's the "name" Cyclonus it could be argued that since Armadas was part of Cyclonus'es personal troop, the name was placed there to honor his commander.

You both need to look at something. The sticker decals for MP Skywarp don't make any mention to Cyclonus. The only one that makes any kind of reference to Cyclonus is one that says "Armada Decepticon".

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Scorpulator wrote:Like I said before, Masterpiece Skywarp comes with Cyclonus stickers. What more proof would anyone need? As far as I'm concerned, it's case closed.

"What more proof would anyone need? ",

How about some actual proof.

Your so called "proof" amounts to nothing since both "Armada" and "Cyclonus" shared the same exact body design.

So any sticker that you claim is "Cyclonus can be equally argued to be "Armada".

Even if one of the stickers say's the "name" Cyclonus it could be argued that since Armadas was part of Cyclonus'es personal troop, the name was placed there to honor his commander.

You both need to look at something. The sticker decals for MP Skywarp don't make any mention to Cyclonus. The only one that makes any kind of reference to Cyclonus is one that says "Armada Decepticon".

I never saw the stickers so I was just replying to what "Scorpulator" had said.

But as you can see the one that says "Armada" does have a character design of Cyclonus but that same design was shared by "Armada".

But since the sticker says "ARMADA" I'm inclined to say its more of a reflection on how Skywarp= Armada