The Energon Pub

More curiosity,as I'm consistently 'evolving' into someone who pays more attention to the fanbase than the comics or toy companies.

My question this time: What, exactly, would be a sensible way to create a (smallish, I guess) TF line, series or subgroup aimed at girls and women? I already have a beast wars collection which I intend to pass on to my daughters, whilst all the cars and jets will go to the boys.

I mean, I could see how a crossover with something like WINKS could work- energon powered spellcasting cyberfairies with a flower that transforms into some environment detoxification module and a rideable little animal helper like a friendly wasp or preying mantis or whatever that can transform into God-knows-what...Barbies dream kitchen, but with little bugs transforming into the appliances like the Dinosaurs in the Flintstones kitchen?? The WINKS walk-in-wardrobe-and-variable-mission-objective-armory? The Jacuzzi-and-tiki-bar-of-peace-talks-with-the-evil-fairies-who-are-polluting-the-planet?

But that would be crossovers. What about in-lore TFs?

My little niece used to use my Beast Wars toys as shephers of my Zoids toys. The Zoids would graze in the garden and gather energon in their multiple guts,and the Predacons would arrive to try and kill the Zoids for the Energon.The Maximals in the meantime would be busy protecting them-the last zoids on an almost extinct planet who needed to gather tons of Energon to propagate their individual species once again.

(Sadly,but hilariously, she scraped a few of my Beast Wars toys along the concrete making 'VROOOM' noises and totally shredding their non-wheeled undersides into a horror story, but, hey, what's a little kid to do other than teach an adult an unforgettable life lesson,right?).

Thoughts?

Autobot Smoketreader wrote:More curiosity,as I'm consistently 'evolving' into someone who pays more attention to the fanbase than the comics or toy companies.

My question this time: What, exactly, would be a sensible way to create a (smallish, I guess) TF line, series or subgroup aimed at girls and women? I already have a beast wars collection which I intend to pass on to my daughters, whilst all the cars and jets will go to the boys.

I mean, I could see how a crossover with something like WINKS could work- energon powered spellcasting cyberfairies with a flower that transforms into some environment detoxification module and a rideable little animal helper like a friendly wasp or preying mantis or whatever that can transform into God-knows-what...Barbies dream kitchen, but with little bugs transforming into the appliances like the Dinosaurs in the Flintstones kitchen?? The WINKS walk-in-wardrobe-and-variable-mission-objective-armory? The Jacuzzi-and-tiki-bar-of-peace-talks-with-the-evil-fairies-who-are-polluting-the-planet?

But that would be crossovers. What about in-lore TFs?

My little niece used to use my Beast Wars toys as shephers of my Zoids toys. The Zoids would graze in the garden and gather energon in their multiple guts,and the Predacons would arrive to try and kill the Zoids for the Energon.The Maximals in the meantime would be busy protecting them-the last zoids on an almost extinct planet who needed to gather tons of Energon to propagate their individual species once again.

(Sadly,but hilariously, she scraped a few of my Beast Wars toys along the concrete making 'VROOOM' noises and totally shredding their non-wheeled undersides into a horror story, but, hey, what's a little kid to do other than teach an adult an unforgettable life lesson,right?).

Thoughts?

Okay, I'll bite. [Note, I am a married woman but not a bra-burning feminist]. Gotta say, I collect and love all kinds of transformers: jets, planes, helicopters, cars, trucks, semis, dragons, rams, beetles, birds... Which of those do I think is specifically for girls? Well, obviously I thought they all were!!

This stereo-typing was what upset me even as a child (I mean that). I collected superhero comics, including transformers, but told all my friends they belonged to my brother. He had dolls and a pink She-Ra castle that he told his friends belonged to me. We played with the same toys and his children (boy and girls) now play with the same toys together. Which ones are the girl toys? I guess the ones the girls are playing with at the moment. His one daughter collects superhero action figures (and not just the female heros).

I do know some girls are "girly" girls that like pink and frilly doll dresses and this is great. But do we have to have frilly transformers to appeal to them or is it enough that they have their likes and we have ours? Or better yet, can't they like frilly dolls AND trucks and cars?

Sounds to me like your daughter took what she had available and made her own stories. Isn't that the point of toys and comics, to stimulate our imaginations and give us some play time? Why not let her choose which toys she'd like to collect and then support her in that, whether it be Barbie or Megatron? And please, don't limit your sons to tanks and jeeps, let them choose their own interests and support them in whatever direction they take.

CelticDragon wrote:

Autobot Smoketreader wrote:More curiosity,as I'm consistently 'evolving' into someone who pays more attention to the fanbase than the comics or toy companies.

My question this time: What, exactly, would be a sensible way to create a (smallish, I guess) TF line, series or subgroup aimed at girls and women?
Thoughts?

Okay, I'll bite. [Note, I am a married woman but not a bra-burning feminist]. Gotta say, I collect and love all kinds of transformers: jets, planes, helicopters, cars, trucks, semis, dragons, rams, beetles, birds... Which of those do I think is specifically for girls? Well, obviously I thought they all were!!

This stereo-typing was what upset me even as a child (I mean that). I collected superhero comics, including transformers, but told all my friends they belonged to my brother. He had dolls and a pink She-Ra castle that he told his friends belonged to me. We played with the same toys and his children (boy and girls) now play with the same toys together. Which ones are the girl toys? I guess the ones the girls are playing with at the moment. His one daughter collects superhero action figures (and not just the female heros).

I do know some girls are "girly" girls that like pink and frilly doll dresses and this is great. But do we have to have frilly transformers to appeal to them or is it enough that they have their likes and we have ours? Or better yet, can't they like frilly dolls AND trucks and cars?

Sounds to me like your daughter took what she had available and made her own stories. Isn't that the point of toys and comics, to stimulate our imaginations and give us some play time? Why not let her choose which toys she'd like to collect and then support her in that, whether it be Barbie or Megatron? And please, don't limit your sons to tanks and jeeps, let them choose their own interests and support them in whatever direction they take.

Heya.
Thanks for replying.

That was my Niece.
In regards to the bold: did I say something to the contrary, or are you stereotyping me?

Heya.
Thanks for replying.

That was my Niece.
In regards to the bold: did I say something to the contrary, or are you stereotyping me?[/quote]

Oops, not you specifically. I kinda went off into soapbox mode and was directing it at John Q Public. Sorry bout that!

In regards to the bold: did I say something to the contrary, or are you stereotyping me?[/quote]

Course you did say: " I already have a beast wars collection which I intend to pass on to my daughters, whilst all the cars and jets will go to the boys."



But it's cool, that was just the sentence that started my train of thought. I wasn't trying to pick a fight, just venting some frustrations with society in general. And on-topic, I probably wouldn't buy a transformer designed specifically for girls and women, but it would depend heavily on what it was, how cool it was as a toy/character and if it had an interesting backstory. Most of my toys as a child weren't specifically girl toys and I still shop HasbroToyShop under "boys".

I hope others reply to this. It's an interesting topic in several directions. Stopping now... I promise.

I think there shouldn't be a Transformers set for girls, because often what is made into girl stuff gets pigeonholed into a narrow premise. Pink, fashion or makeup, and babies.

If they make Tfs, they should make more girl Tfs, not 'girly' TFs. It would say that girls are simply girls, and not what 'role' they are.

CelticDragon wrote:In regards to the bold: did I say something to the contrary, or are you stereotyping me?

Course you did say: " I already have a beast wars collection which I intend to pass on to my daughters, whilst all the cars and jets will go to the boys."



But it's cool, that was just the sentence that started my train of thought. I wasn't trying to pick a fight, just venting some frustrations with society in general. And on-topic, I probably wouldn't buy a transformer designed specifically for girls and women, but it would depend heavily on what it was, how cool it was as a toy/character and if it had an interesting backstory. Most of my toys as a child weren't specifically girl toys and I still shop HasbroToyShop under "boys".

I hope others reply to this. It's an interesting topic in several directions. Stopping now... I promise.[/quote]

Don't hold back on what you want to say, just be ready for the recipient to not wanna hold back, either.You don't have to stop until you're convinced I've got your message.

To clarify:I have a set of MY OWN Transformers which I am passing on to them to sell when they are older, or to pass on again to their kids, in order to SELL.I don't see why it's wrong to put the animals aside for the girls.If I had two sets, I'd give animals to both, and vehicles to none.It just so happened that Alternators came along.
What are you expecting me to do, force them to play with what I say, and collect it, until it's an addiction to them? I'd rather have my legs amputated.

But,yeah, let's stop with that.

I don't buy any kids TFs unless that's what they ask for.I take them to the shop and say "I have this much money: Go nuts".I usually don't even have to divide the cash equally:the kids co-operate with each other.Sometimes, if they pass my budget, they are forced to 'hotswap' choices, but they do it in stride.

I've given away 99% of the toys I've owned so far in my life to other folks' kids with the words "when you don't want it anymore,you pass it on, too" without ever having told them what to do with their own stuff, just mine in the last few seconds that it's mine.

But I see how they always mix their toys,that's why I thought of WINKS, which I don't consider to be frilly, but combat toys, only with Magic ( or whatever it is-it looks like magic) instead of firearms and blades and so on.I consider getting into their mindset to be more beneficial than getting into the mindset of a Lara Croft doll.Crazy wandering psycho bushpig with booby traps in her living room aimed at herself,"but beneath all that cold,hard exterior beats a trembling heart".Pfff.

Zombie Starscream wrote:I think there shouldn't be a Transformers set for girls, because often what is made into girl stuff gets pigeonholed into a narrow premise. Pink, fashion or makeup, and babies.

If they make Tfs, they should make more girl Tfs, not 'girly' TFs. It would say that girls are simply girls, and not what 'role' they are.

Since I'm a guy I can have no qualifications to identify with a girls' childhood.Even if I had a bachelors' degree in the making of girls' toys, I could never Identify because I grew up a guy.The best I could ever do is reference the textbooks that got me the degree.


This is towards yourself and Celtic Dragon both, and all viewers, I just don't yet know how to quote two seperate people at once- I'm encouraged by Celtic Dragons quote that it could become an interesting conversation in several directions.

What are your thoughts on the following:

*Self decorated, but not frilly toys:(TF example-Speed planet Override [a self decorated (flames) TF female war leader]):When parents color the hair of or pierce the ears of boys or girls who are still very young (I don't know, let's say up to the age of six),when the kids have no qualified input on the subject,do the decorations count as frills?. (In my opinion, these at least threaten to be frills, HOWEVER I am unconvinced as to whether or not this early self decoration results in a desire for more,or a removal of the priority to desire more).

*Kim Possible (Tf example-Aerial [Orion Pax's friend]-evolves-into-Elita-1): This is a Lara Croft style character who can apply her mind to anything. She doesn't fuss over her make up and fashion, but her hair and clothes are permanently neat,tidy and clean. As females, would you approve of this character for younger females and males? I'd definitely want my daughters to stay clean, but still get some '**** between their toes', knowing what soap is for. I'd definitely want my boys to be interested in procreating with girls who care about their hygiene as opposed to Xena ferals.(I didn't say ANYTHING about sterilizing their social network of feral and crusty types).

*Xena, and Gabrielle:(Dinobot,Maximal,respectively) Xena is a fictional character. A similar Mythological personality to her is Atalanta, whilst Harmonia is perhaps a cross between Xena and Gabrielle both.
Xena is useless at talking to the opposite sex.She can't flirt for schmackos.Why the hell should this emotional retard be a role model for females? Or a guys idea of a perfect woman?
Gabrielle can definitely think (and feel) for herself, and has excellent discipline when it comes to 'bestowing' friendship on someone she will not allow herself to love (she effectively appears to love Xena, but I say she's totally 'married' [in the most ancient classical version] to her 'journey of learning' as Gabrielle.Is Gabrielle 'A feminine one' or 'the feminine one'? If there are flaws in these two, which are now toys OF girls,if not FOR girls, where are they?
(Forget Callisto, she's just a porn star-Stunticon self decorative world view,maybe...)

*Wonder woman: Real Amazons used to hack off one boob in order to fire off a Bow accurately (and they were good with bows, too!).How would a single boobed wonder woman toy go down? Or a Xena toy at that? Guys toys have handicaps (Xavier has a wheelchair, the Cobra commander guy has a metal face, plenty of lines churn out a one-eyed-man or scar-faced-man somewhere in the line-up, but these are all ACCEPTED handicaps. One boobed Amazons are not considered handicapped, altho two-boobed Amazons are until they hack one boob off)..what the hell is the solution in this example?

Zombie Starscream wrote:I think there shouldn't be a Transformers set for girls, because often what is made into girl stuff gets pigeonholed into a narrow premise. Pink, fashion or makeup, and babies.

If they make Tfs, they should make more girl Tfs, not 'girly' TFs. It would say that girls are simply girls, and not what 'role' they are.

I agree! A Transformers set specifically aimed at girls is a bad idea. It would be nothing more than a set of fru-fru robots, because this is how they make girl-toys.

We DO need a few more female-styled Transformers, I think.....and NO MORE PINK!

Female-styled Decepticons would be especially nice too!

Pyrostrata wrote:We DO need a few more female-styled Transformers, I think.....and NO MORE PINK!

Female-styled Decepticons would be especially nice too!

Yeah, Rosanna was original in character (For a TF), but unoriginal in color scheme. Meanwhile, Slipstream rules, and she had no "girly" colors.

Chupacabra Convoy wrote:

Pyrostrata wrote:We DO need a few more female-styled Transformers, I think.....and NO MORE PINK!

Female-styled Decepticons would be especially nice too!

Yeah, Rosanna was original in character (For a TF), but unoriginal in color scheme. Meanwhile, Slipstream rules, and she had no "girly" colors.

Neither does Strika, who, up until TF:WFC and animated, was the only female con I knew of.

I do think we need more female characters, I've always wanted figures of Firestar and the rest of the G1 Fembot's. (Thanks to Impossibletoys I at least have Arcee)

And of course we got fembots in the movie line... but there lame and ugly.

There's enough Prowl/Jazz squeeeeee crap out there. We don't need to be encouraging them further.

I wish society would just stop with this PC nonsense about "we need to aim at girls"/"we need to be gender neutral".

If I wanted pink, girly crap I'd play with barbies. If girls want to play with Optimus et al, they don't need flowers and kitties and dresses and sparkly vampires to do so. Likewise, if a guy wants to play with Barbies, you don't see Hasbro saying "Oh, how can we make Barbie and friends more appealing to boys?"

If it ain't broke...

Catalyst Prime wrote:

And of course we got fembots in the movie line... but there lame and ugly.

at least there was no segregation there. everyone in the movie line was lame and ugly almost kidding

I don't like separating TFs into boy and girl toys. there's enough toylines and comics and tv shows telling kids what they should and shouldn't do. TFs are giant transforming alien robots. any kind of gender bias should be beyond them. specifically since there's no real need for gender in their race.

I grew up with two brothers. That kinda made me an "honorary boy" as far as the company I kept. I remember having Barbies - and they were always wrapped in aluminum foil "armor" and carried swords, shields and knives (usually constructed from aluminum foil and cardboard - my poor mom was always out of aluminum foil). I remember digging "caves" in snow drifts where G.I. Joe and Cobra - and the occasional Knight Barbie - would battle it out in a blizzard until we were all frozen. I remember building models just to watch them get blown up with firecrackers...I climbed trees, zoomed down the mountain on my Mongoose (no helmet!), read comic books, got in fights involving rocks, played with Transformers, rolled around in many a mud puddle, played 'let's run over my little brother with the 3-wheeler and see what happens' - all the while maintaining my femininity.

So, regardless of whom the toy is aimed at, the kid will custom tailor their imagination to follow whatever story they create.

Transformers continues to fire up my imagination - regardless of their gender or who the toys are aimed at. If a girls likes them, it's probably not because of it's frilly dress - though, you could always put a frilly dress ON it...

More female characters with fully developed personalities and backgrounds would be a start.

Blackarachnia worked in BW and Animated because she wasn't just Random McFlirtypants, she often drove the plot and had goals and issues of her own which didn't always match up with either faction. She was intelligent, driven, competent, effective, and not a bad brawler when the need arose. You could easily fill entire episodes just by following her around with a camera and listening to her talk to herself and others.

Arcee, on the other hand, tends to get turned into whatever's required for a given episode or continuity. She's personality bubblegum in a generic female package.

The G1 Femmes and Airrazor didn't really work out because they were never given either a lot of screen time or much individual development. Likewise, to a large degree, Strika and even Botanica. Thunderblast had her own storyline to a degree, but she was terribly one-dimensional. Override never really went anywhere - she was just swept up in the larger plotlines.

However, I don't believe I've actually ever heard what female Transformers fans think of BA. Is she seen as really interesting? Something that might bring more female fans to the show? Or does she come across as an unpleasantly stereotypical and unnecessarily sultry-voiced femme fatale?

I did just about the same thing as Stormer. I had toys that were 'for boys,' but I loved to play with them in differant ways. I would use my imagination a lot, and my 'doll' was a Voltron. (Yes, he actually was played with like a baby doll. He even had a knitted blanket and pillow for a 'bed.') I would also play with my brother's Tfs, and I remember playing with Astrotrain a bunch.
After Tfs I got into TMNT, they were my favorites too.