Sabrblade wrote:ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Sabrblade wrote:ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:IMO Supreme is more in line with the Commander class than Titan.
Commander class now is basically what Armada Super-Base Optimus and Giga-Con Tidal Wave were back then, along with the likes of 1988 God Ginrai, Car Robots Super Fire Convoy/RiD 2001 Omega Prime, and Masterpiece MP-1 Convoy/20th Anniversary Optimus. Back then, all of these (sans Tidal Wave) were treated as approximate equivalents of the old Super class (which later became Leader class in Cybertron) since all of the Supremes were still some much larger than them (Unicron, Omega Supreme/Sentinel, Starscream, Primus), and are still that much larger than the modern Commander class.
It's true that the Supreme-class toys are objectively larger, packing more mass than the Commander class of today. But then, the Leaders, Voyagers, and Deluxes of the Unicron Trilogy are larger than those of today, even if they sometimes still have the height (example: I have PotP Starscream standing next to Dark Crumplezone, and Screamer is a featherweight compared to CZ).
I say the Supreme and Commander classes are equivalent because Commander-class figures are substantially larger than present-day Leaders by a similar degree to what the Supremes were larger than the Leaders of their day by. The Supremes
don't tower over those Leaders to the same degree that a Titan would, or outmass them to the same level.
Here's the thing, though.
Notice that I said all of the examples I listed were "approximate equivalents" of the old Super class. That's because of how the actual Super class really ended with RiD 2001 due to Armada renaming every size class for its line. While its Super-Base class was the new replacement for Super, the one mold of its size class was noticeably larger than both every previous Super and every formal Leader class toy to come after it.
In fact, when Energon introduced the Leaders class (of which Cybertron later dropped the "s" at the end to make the "Leader" class), its toys of that size class were of comparable size and mass to the old Supers of BW-RiD 2001, and the same remained consistent for the Leader class toys of forthcoming lines (sans Cybertron Metroplex, who was himself a unique case of making him as tall as possible with the mass of a Leader, but I digress). Armada Super-Base Prime was this anomalously large case who didn't quite fit into the size class that his assortment was meant to succeed, but was also too small to be compared to a Supreme class (which had first existed since Beast Machines).
I don't know that he's really that much larger. I mean, the trailer is rather hollow. If anything, he's more a price point unto himself...
Sabrblade wrote:Likewise, the other examples I listed (God Ginrai, Omega Prime, and MP-1) were also too big to truly be considered of the Super class size (Omega Prime's components were Supers, but he himself was bigger), but were also too small for the Supreme class. But because there was no formal in-between step set between Super/Leader and Supreme class, the former was the closer equivalent for these roughly foot-tall toys to be considered.
1a. God Ginrai and Omega Prime are both
combined forms! So of
course they're not going to slot neatly into a size class! Why not try to lump Victory Saber or Burning Megatron or Jet Megaweapon Optimus into a single size class while you're at it, hm?
1b. Also, God Ginrai
is a freaking G1. He and both his components pre-date the more strict size class system the Beast Era introduced.
2. MP-1 was a Masterpiece. The first Masterpiece. Why are you trying to lump it into ANY standard retail size class? It was its own damn thing! It was made to be in line with the Alternators (themselves a separate thing from the regular size classes) size-wise.
Sabrblade wrote:But now, now that we do have Commander class as not only a step above Leader below the Supreme size
I disagree, flat-out. Here is how I see it:
Commander Class is NOT "a step above Leader below the Supreme size". Commander Class
is the Supreme size,
adjusted for the same shrinkage that all the other size classes went through. SIEGE Skyfire maybe smaller than King Starscream or Armada Unicron, but he is as much above a Prime Wars or WFCT Leader as those toys are above the Unicron Trilogy Leaders.
Sabrblade wrote:but also a step that reaches to the exact same size as Super-Base Optimus, Tidal Wave, God Ginrai, Omega Prime, and MP-1, it seems only natural to retroactively equate all of these once anomalously-large toys with the current formal class designation for toys of that same size.
No, it doesn't. It really doesn't. First off, Tidal Wave doesn't belong -
he's the same size class as both Megatron and Overload. He's
taller, yeah, but it's a case like Cybertron Metroplex where the same mass allowance has been made to stretch.
Second, see my previously-mentioned points about the other figures. Especially that two of those are combined forms (one of which is G1), and one of those is a Masterpiece and thus not subject to standard size classes in the first place.
Third, I reiterate that you're not allowing for how the size classes have hemorrhaged mass.
Sabrblade wrote:After all, we also have ourselves a modern Supreme class equivalent toy in Studio Series Devastator, whose size looks to be comparable to the original ROTF Supreme class toy.
They're not really equivalent, though. They may be the same size in terms of space occupied, but the original was made of hollow components with no robot modes of their own.
Sabrblade wrote:While his upcoming giftset will be priced much higher than past Supreme toys were, so too have all modern reissues of those old Supreme molds been priced way higher than they originally retailed.
Yes, but those prices aren't in the same neighborhood as the SS Devy giftset.
Of course UT would have done it already.
So kids evidently weren't impressed enough by the big toy - an inauspicious debut for the class. But luckily they were willing to give it another shot, with the much-more-suitable Unicron.
) still there is always 
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