The Energon Pub

Sabrblade wrote:So, what's next on your agenda? If it's Transformers: Go!, don't watch it just yet. Let me send you a list with a proper viewing order for that series's episodes, as they were originally released in a rather haphazard way (I can't send it right now at the time of this typing since I'm still at work at the moment away from my computer).

Actually, Transformers: Go! requires a little bit prep work, due to the circumstances of its release at the time. Before I do anything for it, I need to know first if it is your next series or if there's something else you've got in mind first.

Yeah, it's Transformers GO! I may watch Rescue Force eventually, but I feel it may burn me out. I'm very much out of their target demographic. I don't think I'll enjoy it much.

I know Go was a Prime spin-off. It's been ages, but I did watch all of Prime, so there's that. It's handy to know it's out of order and I need to watch them differently than usual.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Yeah, it's Transformers GO! I may watch Rescue Force eventually, but I feel it may burn me out. I'm very much out of their target demographic. I don't think I'll enjoy it much.

I know Go was a Prime spin-off. It's been ages, but I did watch all of Prime, so there's that. It's handy to know it's out of order and I need to watch them differently than usual.

Okay then. I'll need time to gather some things together, as there was a lot of promotional material released ahead of the show's release. There's some backstory material for Go! that I've been meaning to get translated into English, and I guess now's as good a time as any to get to it. However, it'll take me a bit of time since I'll need to transcribe some of it first. And it's already 1:00 in the morning where I am, so I'll I doubt I'll get much done tonight.

I beg you. Take a little reprieve in the meantime before proceeding to watch Go!, so that I can get things ready for you. If you jump right into it without first having a clearer idea of what you're getting into, you will be totally lost on all what is going on. It is definitely a very unique series whose context needs to be understood before going into it.

You know what? I decided to forgo sleep and just gather together what I could.

Sanjou Gattai Transformers Go! (Triple Combination: Transformers Go!) is a Japanese-original sequel series to Transformers: Prime. It ignores the events of the third season (Beast Hunters), as that season was never dubbed into Japanese. So instead, we have another "Headmasters vs. Rebirth" scenario of branching paths depending on the language continuity.

What this show is is not an ordinary television series, or even a television series at all. Rather, it is instead a limited-budget mini-series of 10 short episodes (running ~12 minutes long, each) released direct-to-DVD as bonus pack-in material with two Japanese magazines: TV Magazine and TV-Kun Magazine. TakaraTomy's YouTube channel eventually rereleased several episodes in HD format, but only up until the last few, which remain SD-only. Each episode is not part of a single linear storyline, but instead are part of two! All episodes released with TV-Kun are part of the "Samurai Chapter" of episodes focusing on a group of Autobots known as the Swordbot Samurai Team, while the episodes released with TV Magazine are the "Shinobi Chapter" episodes that center around the ninja-themed Swordbot Shinobi Team. Thus, there are two distinct "Episode 1's", two "Episodes 2's", etc.

Samurai Chapter:
1. "Sanjou Gattai! Swordbot - Samurai!"
2. "Pursue! The Legendiscs!"
3. "The Invincible Swordsman - Ryōma Sakamoto!?"
4. "Showdown! Benkei Musashibō!"
5. "Depart! Optimus ExPrime!"
6. "Final Battle! Linkup Sanjou Gattai DaiKenzan!"

Shinobi Chapter:
1. "Sanjou Gattai! Swordbot - Ninja!"
2. "Discover! The Legendiscs!"
3. "Enter! The New Warrior!"
4. "Final Battle! Linkup Sanjou Gattai DaiGekisou!"

Subsequently, there are two versions of the show's opening theme, each containing its own unique visuals based on which volume the episodes belong to. Though, the first few episodes released did not have any opening theme song, as it was not yet ready until a few episodes in.

Because the third season of Prime never got released in Japan, Go! was created to fill in its stead. Thus, many of the Beast Hunters toys were released in Japan under the Go! branding, but with very different color schemes for many of them. However, only Optimus Prime appears in Go!, while absolutely none of the Prime cartoon cast shows up besides him. Instead, it is the aforementioned Swordbots who are the stars of the show, along with new Predacon characters serving as the villains (as no Decepticons appear either).

The way this series's connection to Prime was pulled off was that the final episode of Prime season 2 was altered for the Japanese dub. As many of us know, season 2 ended in English with the Autobot base being attacked, the Autobots having to evacuate and scatter to various locations across the nation, and the Nemesis destroying the base with Optimus still inside it, last seen being left for dead in the destroyed base's rubble. In the Japanese version, however, the final scene of the episode was heavily edited, with the entire sequence of the base's destruction, and everything after it, being cut out and removed altogether. The last thing we see in the episode is Optimus slashing at the GroundBridge control panel with his sword and the screen fading to white immediately afterward, leaving the fate of the base, the Autobots, the Decepticons, and pretty much everything, completely ambiguous.

During the end credits, Optimus's voice speaks to the viewers, thanking them for watching the show and supporting the Autobots in their fight against the Decepticons. He's sorry that this is where the show is ending, but that he and the Autobots will keep on fighting until the day when peace finally comes to both the Earth and the entire universe, so at least he closes out the show with words of hope and optimism.

Here is the episode's conclusion as it played out in Japan (from 00:00 to 01:39, ignore the rest of the stuff in the video as it is irrelevant):



Thus, in Go!, Optimus is alive and well, even sporting his Beast Hunters toy body without any sign of having ever been mortally injured.

And, no, even when Robots in Disguise 2015 was later dubbed into Japanese (renamed "Transformers: Adventure"), Season 3 of Prime was still never released in Japan in any form, what with Go! taking its place, despite RID 2015 (even in its Japanese dub) referencing events from Prime season 3 that were never officially screened in Japan.

Anyway, in the lead up to Go!'s release, TakaraTomy created a lot of backstory material to help bridge the gap between the cliffhanger ending of Prime and the start of Go!. Namely, a prologue was written and published in the "Transformers Go! Visual Story Book", and also narrated by Optimus at the beginning of this promo video (from 00:00 to 01:14, there are no subtitles but I have translated the prologue below):

20XX
A certain planet

The Decepticons, led by Megatron, were fighting an endless battle with us Autobots. The scientist Shockwave conducted research and created vicious biological weapons. Their name was... The Predacons

However, the Predacons did not follow the Decepticons and went on a rampage. The vicious Predacons spread across spacetime to various planets, plunging the entire universe into the depths of terror.

The most powerful and most vicious of the Predacons was the Demon Emperor, Dragotron.

The Predacon army led by Dragotron repeatedly destroyed and conquered planets, until finally reaching Earth.

Meanwhile, we Autobots traveled through space in Hunter Mode wearing Preda Armor in order to defeat the Predacons.

We rushed to Earth in pursuit of Dragotron, and somehow managed to seal him away using a secret item we had obtained during our journey.

I didn't translate the rest of the video because it's just about the first wave of Go! toys, and mainly the toys of the Prime characters rather than of those who appear in the Go! cartoon.

Basically, this prologue serves to explain the armored look of the Beast Hunters toy molds in the new context of the Japanese Prime/Go! continuity. The toys' new looks are the results of "Preda Armor" the Autobots have used to upgrade into "Hunter Mode" in order to fight against the Predacons. The only story-relevant info mentioned in the toy section of the video is that Shockwave created the Predacons in a laboratory and that Dragotron (who is a slight redeco of Prime Predaking) has been sealed away as per the prologue, but time has passed since then and his seal seems like it might be about to break. The object that the Autobots used to seal him and his forces is called a "Legendisc", one of five that exist (and which are the five circles seen at 01:06 in the video, which also purposely bear a resemblance to the Generations Fall of Cybertron Data Disk toys from 2012).

With all that out of the way, I mentioned before that the episodes were released in a rather haphazard order, due to the Samurai and Shinobi episodes releasing with two separate magazines with two separate release schedules. The following is the proper chronological viewing order for the whole series:

01. Samurai episode 1
02. Shinobi episode 1
03. Samurai episode 2
04. Shinobi episode 2
05. Samurai episode 3
06. Samurai episode 4
07. Shinobi episode 3
08. Samurai episode 5
09. Shinobi episode 4
10. Samurai episode 6

I think that's just about everything I can say without getting into spoilers.

The whole series has been fansubbed into English by TV-Nihon, and uploads of all ten episodes can be found on YouTube, such as in this playlist (which is not in chronological order).

Good info to have going in! Looks like a weird divergence, but I'm down.

Forgot to actually reply to the Galaxy Force comments.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Right off the bat, I think the show suffers by it being it's own thing. There are a lot of things that seemed derived from Superlink and it was a continual distraction for a lot longer than I'd have thought going into this.

This is especially evident when Primus explains the origin of the black hole having been created from the destruction of an evil god who was Primus's opposite. For a show that wanted to distance itself from Superlink, that sure sounds to me like what happened with Unicron in the final episode of Superlink.

Later timelines published after Galaxy Force ended attempted to actually try and put it back into the same universe as Legends of the Microns and Superlink, placing GF's space bridge colonization project in ancient times long before the Microns fled from Cybertron to Earth in LOTM, but kept GF's time after Superlink vague by simply labeling its timeframe as "The Future".

Though, unlike how the English version rewrote the likes of Galaxy Convoy, Exillion/Exigeyser, Dreadrock, First Aid/First Gunner, Guardshell, Sonic Bomber, Master Megatron/Master Galvatron, Starscream, and Noisemaze to make them all be the same characters as the Armada and Energon versions of Optimus Prime, Hot Shot, Jetfire, Red Alert, Landmine, Wing Saber, Megatron/Galvatron, Starscream, and Sideways (albeit, to varying results), the Galaxy Force characters were still treated as separate individuals from their predecessors, even if the world was now the same one.

Debris from Armada Unicron's destroyed body was even once seen in a flashback in Galaxy Force:



That only makes sense if it really is all one world, just with Galaxy Force set super long after Superlink, even if the characters aren't the same like they are in the English version.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Also, this show was very DBZ and not in a good way. I recognize the "power up" effects as a trope, but I didn't like it. And seeing Megatron just sort of power up due to rage also left me flat. Part of what I liked about Z was the training. GF just skips that. Megatron just becomes more powerful due to sheer force of will allowing him to become so. Especially escaping from the Fire Dimension.

Yeah, the glowing anime auras was something the English version took steps to try fixing, by either attributing the auras to the character channeling some kind of power source that provided them a boost (e.g. - Primus imbuing some of his power into them, the power of the Planet Forces being drawn from by the characters, the characters charging up their internal energon to surge outward, etc.) or by simply having the characters express surprise and bewilderment as to what was suddenly happening to them (in which cases even they didn't know what the auras were) in order to make the auras and their power seem more mysterious and wondrous.

A lot of these anime trope moments were given this more "hard sci-fi" treatment by the dub.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Sounwave was a contender since I like his cool attitude and look.

In the English dub, he actually spoke like a radio DJ, making him feel like an evil version of G1 Blaster.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Okay, Giant Planet is a mess. There's three people!? What, you can't afford to make some CGI generics?

Hey, now, don't forget their Microns.

And there was also this yellow dude seen at the bottom of the screen from this shot in the final episode:



He's definitely a generic.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Also, they just build cities all the time and move on? That's it!? I just .... can't. No wonder Moledive causes trouble. Mindlessly building giant cities on an empty world would make me crazy too.

Funnily enough, the English version riffed on this life based around constant engineering work by giving all of the Giant Planet inhabitants Scottish accents, in honor of Chief Engineer Montgomery "Scotty" Scott from Star Trek.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Megatron ... honestly he's in G1 Galvatron mode most of the time. He goes from wanting to rule the universe to also wanting to destroy it. He doesn't care about his underlings. I like that they take the time to explain his idea at the end because before then I had no idea what he's hoping to achieve by letting a black hole destroy planets he wants to rule. I guess when he loses he's just having a destructive tantrum.

TBH, though, Starscream's plan also sucks. He also wants to stop the Cybertrons from saving everyone in order to rule ... what? Everything will go to Hell! Maybe he also has the same secret plan Megatron had?

If I remember correctly, I think the English version smoothed this out by having Megatron wanting to take the power of the Cyber Planet Keys (what the Planet Forces were called in the dub) for himself so that he each could (somehow) take control of the black hole and use both it and Primus's power from the Keys to "remake" the universe into one better suited for him to rule over it, with Starscream likewise wanting to achieve this goal but with himself ruling the new universe instead of Megatron.

Don't quote me on that, though, as I'm going off of memory and haven't watched Cybertron in a few years, so I could possibly be misremembering these details. But I do feel like their goals made some degree of sense in the English version.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Of the entire UT, I think ML is the top. Cybertron comes second. Even if I have complaints the fights were pretty good and there were some interesting characters here and there. Superlink had some good ideas, but ran in place way too long. Also there's too much nonsense.

Heh, on the English side, most would say Cybertron is the top tier, Armada's in the middle, and Energon of course is at the very bottom below pretty much every series ever.

I understand that Armada was absolutely butchered. Maybe that's why I couldn't get into it. I just remember watching it and finding it tedious. But ML is really good.

I think Galaxy Force can only be harmonized with ML and SL if you don't actually watch it. If you just understand everything in theory. Earth would have to regress in technology and everyone would need amnesia. Their solution to that problem seems strange.

Honestly, it's a real mess trying to make that work. Worse than Masterforce. At least there you can sort of imagine that the entire world didn't pay attention to the news regarding planet Cybertron entering Earth's atmosphere or intergalactic relations or something. Sure, why not? Victory sort of papers over the soft reboot of MF anyway.

Here Cybertron's the future, but also Earth is less technologically advanced than Superlink. It MIGHT be able to follow ML, but not SL. Not unless the Autobots and Deceptions travelled through time to after Armada but before SL to have all of their adventures on Earth. Since had them be this whole secret. But it's one, huge, mess.

Watched Go Samurai episode 1. Getting to this right after Galaxy Force I'm struck by how nice the animation is. But the lips don't move at all now! I guess they gave up trying to make that work?

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Here Cybertron's the future, but also Earth is less technologically advanced than Superlink. It MIGHT be able to follow ML, but not SL. Not unless the Autobots and Deceptions travelled through time to after Armada but before SL to have all of their adventures on Earth. Since had them be this whole secret. But it's one, huge, mess.

This does make me wonder if Cybertron/Galaxy Force could be reworked as an alternate sequel to Armada/Micron Legend, entirely separate from Energon/Superlink.

Of course, you run into the issue of the disappearing Decepticons (Cyclonus, Demolishor, and Tidal Wave), but you kind of have that issue anyways (especially in Galaxy Force)

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I think Galaxy Force can only be harmonized with ML and SL if you don't actually watch it. If you just understand everything in theory. Earth would have to regress in technology and everyone would need amnesia. Their solution to that problem seems strange.

Honestly, it's a real mess trying to make that work. Worse than Masterforce. At least there you can sort of imagine that the entire world didn't pay attention to the news regarding planet Cybertron entering Earth's atmosphere or intergalactic relations or something. Sure, why not? Victory sort of papers over the soft reboot of MF anyway.

Here Cybertron's the future, but also Earth is less technologically advanced than Superlink. It MIGHT be able to follow ML, but not SL. Not unless the Autobots and Deceptions travelled through time to after Armada but before SL to have all of their adventures on Earth. Since had them be this whole secret. But it's one, huge, mess.

Yeah, there are issues. Though, recall that in Superlink/Energon, we only ever saw locations on Earth that were entirely confined to the Cybertron Cities, all of which were located in remote unpopulated regions of Earth far away from any and all normal human civilization. We saw no ordinary human cities or population centers at any point in the series, and all of the humans seen working at the Cybertron Cities were strictly government personnel.

It's a massive implausible stretch, but entirely possible that the Cybertron Cities were kept so remote and far away from the rest of humanity because they were all one big government cover up that was kept secret from the rest of the world.

But even that aside, recall what happened in the first episode of Galaxy Force when Coby, Bud, and Lori first laid eyes on the damaged Guardshell: there was some interesting dialogue exchanged between the three. Not only does Bud identify Guardshell as a Transformer on the spot, but Coby as well seems to know what he is:
Lori: What… is this?
Coby: "What" you ask… …isn't it obvious? This is…
Bud: A Transformer!

In the second episode, while Coby tries to repair Guardshell, he so casually says that if he can't do the repairs by himself, he'll ask Mr. Stanton to help him, as if asking Stanton to help fix a giant alien robot was no big deal at all. Later, Lori says to Guardshell, "I never thought that Transformers were real. I thought they were just rumors like UFOs." Regardless of what universe Galaxy Force takes place in, this is a universe where humanity knows what Transformers are, but simply think of them as urban myths like Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster. And this is actually something that did not happen in the English version.

The reason the Autobots tried to hide from humanity in Galaxy Force instead of working together with them like the Superlink Autobots did was because Galaxy Convoy established a strict rule of non-interference that he insisted all Autobots adhere to, and was very stubborn about it. He did also say that he would find a way to let humanity know about the black hole in a way that they'd understand, but only if it came to that point. He didn't want any Autobots bothering any humans and wanted strict secrecy instead.

It's still not perfect, but... Yeah, it's still not perfect.

I don't think Takara's really touched upon any of it since 2007, and haven't put as much effort into cleaning things up for it as they have for JG1.

I don't find missing characters that problematic. SL definitely continues from ML, but where's Rampage? He was this HUGE part of ML and then ... gone.

And then you have earlier examples, like Seasons 2 - 3. Where's Omega Supreme or Skyfire? And then you have guys like Star Saber, who should be really important in the past eras, but is absent. Of course, we know the real life issues here. The beauty of the fiction is that TF has a big, big universe. Omega Supreme could just be chilling out and having a beer with Star Saber when Season 3 or Masterforce happens. You just have to assume they're doing something else, somewhere in space.

I remember that the kids refer to Transformers. But then you have the government types just survey them when they could have just walked right up to them and said "hey, TFs, what the frig is happening on our planet?" and have established relations. Plus you have to accept that the Energon Towers and cities are just a worldwide secret. GF also gives Minicons a different origin than being part of Unicron.

I wonder why they made the kids know about TFs at all. Why even write that into the script? But it's not necessarily a problem because Live Convoy and Autovolt were operating in secret for ages. I'd attribute it to that more than allusions to SL.

Galaxy Convoy not working with others is just dumb. How in the Hell did he expect the TFs to get anything done? It would have made more sense if he got them to lie and say they were locals. I get that he's meant to go through character growth and learn to trust others and learn "we're all stronger together" but, as a practical matter, it's just idiotic. Had they followed orders none of the Autobots would have gotten anywhere.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:GF also gives Minicons a different origin than being part of Unicron.

I think most just consider the Giant Planet to be where the Mini-Cons settled after departing into space to live out their lives in peace between Armada/LOTM and Energon/Superlink.

You can even see Armada Mini-Cons depicted on old murals seen within the Giant Planet's lower levels.

I remember that. But I take it to be just a visual homage; like G1 Wheelie in Armada. Galaxy Force just wasn't made to connect to ML at that point.

I guess the two sets aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, but Minicons aren't said to be from Cybertron or Unicron either.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I remember that. But I take it to be just a visual homage; like G1 Wheelie in Armada. Galaxy Force just wasn't made to connect to ML at that point.

Near the end of the series?

Sabrblade wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I remember that. But I take it to be just a visual homage; like G1 Wheelie in Armada. Galaxy Force just wasn't made to connect to ML at that point.

Near the end of the series?

Yes. There was some connective tissue hanging here and there, but by the end I think they were free of it. I don't think this is meant to imply that these Minicons are supposed to be the ones from Armada. Any more than Master Megatron is actually wearing Unicron bits in GF.

I suppose they retconned this later on, when they decided GF SHOULD be a part of ML and SL, but I don't think the intent here is that these are the Armada Minicons.

And, really, where would that fit in the timeline? They stopped by Giant and then left? That they were forced to do Unicron's bidding, but left to go to Giant, and then came back to Cybertron so they could later go to Earth?

Mini cons have common molds. Many TFs are different characters, but share molds. So I take these as a visual homage.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:And, really, where would that fit in the timeline? They stopped by Giant and then left? That they were forced to do Unicron's bidding, but left to go to Giant, and then came back to Cybertron so they could later go to Earth?

I'm confused. The timeline would go like this (at least, in theory):

• Unicron sneaks a birthing chamber containing his cells into the depths of Cybertron eons ago. The Mini-Cons are born within this chamber, but the time-displaced Armada kids from the future implant free will into them, which spreads to all of them.
• The Mini-Cons are used to escalate the war between the Autobots and Decepticons, until they decide to leave. The Autobots support the the Mini-Cons' decision and provide cover fire for their escape ship as it flees Cybertron.
• The ship crash-lands on Earth's moon and splits in half, with one staying on the moon and the other half falling to the Earth itself. The Mini-Con panels scatter across the Earth.
• Eons pass until the 21st century when Rad & Friends awaken the first ones, signaling the Autobots and Decepticons to come to Earth. The 'Bots and 'Cons then arrive on Earth and begin a war to find the Mini-Cons.
• The conflict on Earth ends with the three Mini-Con weapons recovered by the Decepticons and returned to Cybertron. The three weapons are then stolen and used to revive Unicron.
• Unicron attacks Cybertron and tries to seize control of the Mini-Cons, but they fight back against his will with help from their human friends. Unicron is then shut down, allowing the Mini-Cons to be free of him once and for all.
• In the aftermath of Unicron's defeat and disappearance, the Mini-Cons decide to leave Cybertron and make a home for themselves on a new world (though, some of them apparently stayed behind with their Autobot and human friends, based on the few we see in Superlink). The Mini-Cons who departed apparently arrive on the Giant Planet and make a home for themselves there, establishing a peaceful coexistence with the native construction worker Transformers.
• Years later, Vector Prime pays a visit to the Giant Planet and meets his partner Mini-Con and the three Recon Team members, who decide to join Vector Prime in his travels. Sensing the black hole, Vector Prime comes to Cybertron along with his four Mini-Con companions, who also accompany him to Earth.

Sabrblade wrote:[*]In the aftermath of Unicron's defeat and disappearance, the Mini-Cons decide to leave Cybertron and make a home for themselves on a new world (though, some of them apparently stayed behind with their Autobot and human friends, based on the few we see in Superlink). The Mini-Cons who departed apparently arrive on the Giant Planet and make a home for themselves there, establishing a peaceful coexistence with the native construction worker Transformers.
[*]Years later, Vector Prime pays a visit to the Giant Planet and meets his partner Mini-Con and the three Recon Team members, who decide to join Vector Prime in his travels. Sensing the black hole, Vector Prime comes to Cybertron along with his four Mini-Con companions, who also accompany him to Earth.[/list]

So ... what, the Mini-cons leave not only in space, but in time as well?

Gauntlet101010 wrote:So ... what, the Mini-cons leave not only in space, but in time as well?

How do you mean?

Sabrblade wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:So ... what, the Mini-cons leave not only in space, but in time as well?

How do you mean?

The minicons on Giant were there from the start. There's ancient carvings of them, they have a place in lost cities, even in the deepest underground chamber of the planet.

So you're saying that, after ML and Unicron was defeated they went back in time to establish their place on Giant?

I feel like we're talking over each other?

I don't see how Minicons can be native to Giant (which seems to be implied in GF), and also be Unicron's cells with a deep connection to the Autobot / Decepticon war (which Giant wasn't a part of). I can't see how they'd emigrate there long enough ago to be depicted in carvings after ML and still have this timeline be intact except for very selective (and nonsensical) time travel.

I could see this emigration MAYBE happening at the start of the A/ D war. There's enough time there to have groups of malcontents take to the starts and form colonies. But .... to have it be after ML? I just don't see how it works.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:they have a place in lost cities, even in the deepest underground chamber of the planet.

...I completely forgot about that.

It seems like the easy answer here is that Mini-cons were on the ship to settle the Giant Planet, which could have left between their creation and the escalation of the Autobot/Decepticon war

Alternatively, Ask Vector Prime mentions that in Galaxy Force, Planet X is the corpse of Unicron from another dimension. If that's true, the Minicons on Giant planet could have been separately but similarly created by that Unicron? That one may be a bit of a stretch though.

On the Unicron Trilogy:

One weird part is when, exactly, did Cybertron's moon become Unicron. Like, how did he do that? These are Cybertronians; didn't they notice an extra moon popped up one day? they have to have satellites, right? Did Unicron make the Minicons before or after the war started?

I ... guess if the Grand Black Hole is caused by Unicron bits of him could have come through too. But that does mean these Minicons are different from the ones explicitly from another dimension. Which would kinda make sense since Vector Prime doesn't gain any power boost from Powelinking with his Minicon.

As far as a unified timeline, the only idea that makes sense is that some of Unicron's Minicons went with the TFs to form Giant Planet and that Unicron was playing possum before Cybertronians evolved. TBH, even if it's a cool reveal, the idea that Unicron was one of Cybertron's moons the entire time opens up a lot of questions. He's the most passive bad guy ever. He just lays dormant for ... billions upon billions of years. Untold eons go by with Unicron just passively waiting for dinner.

Transformers Go!

A series that was in pack-in DVDs with TV magazine. Well, what can I say about it?

I liked the fight scenes. If I was a kid I think I would have liked them more. There's only so many times you can see Abominus beaten up before it gets old. As a kid, though, I think I'd like it.

But the episode has only one idea. TFs and kids go to Feudal Japan and meet a guy. One human learns a lesson. Everyone goes home. There's 10 15 minute episodes total, but there could easily be even less.

It's hard to watch all of them in an "order" as most events overlap. Especially the end; talk about trying to save the budget! The end really reminds me of Digimon - the way the kids would fuse with their TF teams. Well, that and Kiss Players...

While most of the series can be reconciled the last two episodes really can't. Prime And Predaking are in two places at the exact same time. They do the exact same things in each episode. I really wish one led to another, but I guess the idea is that each series can be watched independently from the other. Really, the end of one should lead into a merged special episode.

I think the idea of two separate TF teams is a good one. Executed extremely poorly. Ideally the teams should have different combat philosophies, but they are interchangeable. Each team member has his exact counterpart. I think my frustration with this came when they realized they'd be ported out if they fought the Predacons back. Each team has identical dialogue. But, really, the Shinobi team should be down with such a strategy. But you know what? It doesn't even come up. They never have to run from a fight. In fact the disks all seem just fine when used by Predaking by the end of the series. They should port out instantly.

I get the sense they just didn't think the mechanism though.

My favorite Autobot is probably Kenzan. Although he could easily have been Drift. They have them do this car flip in every show that's really cool. Plus he dual wields katanas. Nice. Gekisoumaru is also cool looking, though.

My favorite Predacon ... none of them? lol, none of them really se themselves apart. Maybe Predaking?

This series is rough. Really rough. I guess everything has to be on a flat grassy plain due to the budget being miniscule. And I guess they gave up on lip synching; geez. They could have gone to the far future. Or prehistoric times. Each team could fight differently - notably I think the ninja team should have relied on stealth and evasive maneuvers.

They could have also, maybe, made the Autobots have distinct personalities. Or made the plots more varied. I tend to think the original two seasons set the bar for episodic TF episodes. But what can you get done in 15 minutes?

It's weird that OP is actually called Optimus Exprime instead of Convoy. And the stays in bullet train mode a lot. Maybe they didn't add a lot of weights to the character model, so it couldn't move properly? Why else would he just zip around in that alt mode?

*I was in the midst of typing up this top part before Gauntlet made his most recent post*

A new idea just crossed my mind.

Let's say Galaxy Force is in its own universe separate from that of LOTM and Superlink, but that it's a neighboring one.

Checking back to what was said about the Giant Planet, Gigalonia, I had forgotten that it was sucked into an alternate universe (I know TV-Nihon's subtitles said "another galaxy", but they tended to confuse the Japanese word for "universe" with "galaxy" back then) in ancient times, which is why I thought the LOTM Microns could have simply traveled to it after the events of that series. But since it slipped away to another universe long ago, I realize now that that theory is impossible.

However, what if, what if, that other universe that Gigalonia disappeared into... was the LOTM/Superlink universe!? The planet arrived there back in ancient times and went to war with Planet X. After Planet X was destroyed, Gigalonia continued to reside in that universe.

Eons later, Unicron gets destroyed for good in this universe at the end of Superlink, which then ripples back over into into Gigalonia's original home universe, creating the black hole in Galaxy Force. That could possibly work, right?

I also double-checked another Japanese timeline that was printed in Figure King magazine, and while it did place the ancient-time events of Galaxy Force in the same timeline as the other ancient-time events mentioned in LOTM and Superlink, the Japanese text under the present-day info for Galaxy Force says "The disappearance of Unicron in another universe causes a grand black hole to form." This sounds to me like, while LOTM/Superlink and Galaxy Force are indeed separate universes, they are heavily-entwined with each other, like cosmic next-door neighbors.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:On the Unicron Trilogy:

One weird part is when, exactly, did Cybertron's moon become Unicron. Like, how did he do that? These are Cybertronians; didn't they notice an extra moon popped up one day? they have to have satellites, right?

I've actually been wondering something about that lately. Like, if maybe he didn't become Cybertron's moon, but rather created a new body for himself out of Cybertron's preexisting moon.

Like, it's said he once attacked Cybertron in the ancient past, right? Maybe he had a previous body that was destroyed while, unbeknowst to everyone else, his spark persisted, and went on to hide itself inside Cybertron's moon so that it could generate a new body for himself from the moon itself. Maybe.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Did Unicron make the Minicons before or after the war started?

I believe it was said they first showed up on Cybertron during the war.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I ... guess if the Grand Black Hole is caused by Unicron bits of him could have come through too. But that does mean these Minicons are different from the ones explicitly from another dimension. Which would kinda make sense since Vector Prime doesn't gain any power boost from Powelinking with his Minicon.

As far as a unified timeline, the only idea that makes sense is that some of Unicron's Minicons went with the TFs to form Giant Planet and that Unicron was playing possum before Cybertronians evolved. TBH, even if it's a cool reveal, the idea that Unicron was one of Cybertron's moons the entire time opens up a lot of questions. He's the most passive bad guy ever. He just lays dormant for ... billions upon billions of years. Untold eons go by with Unicron just passively waiting for dinner.

See the ideas I wrote at the top of this post.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Transformers Go!

A series that was in pack-in DVDs with TV magazine. Well, what can I say about it?

I liked the fight scenes. If I was a kid I think I would have liked them more. There's only so many times you can see Abominus beaten up before it gets old. As a kid, though, I think I'd like it.

But the episode has only one idea. TFs and kids go to Feudal Japan and meet a guy. One human learns a lesson. Everyone goes home. There's 10 15 minute episodes total, but there could easily be even less.

It's hard to watch all of them in an "order" as most events overlap. Especially the end; talk about trying to save the budget! The end really reminds me of Digimon - the way the kids would fuse with their TF teams. Well, that and Kiss Players...

Most of the series can be reconciled the last two episodes really can't. Prime And Predaking are in two places at the exact same time. They do the exact same things in each episode. I really wish one led to another, but I guess the idea is that each series can be watched independently from the other. Really, the end of one should lead into a merged special episode.

Yeah, because the Samurai and Shinobi episodes were being sold separately by two different magazine titles (TV Magazine and TV-kun Magazine) with two different release schedules, they wanted each one to feel like its own completely story, so that subscribers to one magazine didn't feel like they were missing out on anything if they weren't subscribed to the other magazine, which is indeed while the final episode of each duplicated the final battle but swapped between DaiKenzan and DaiGekisou.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:This series is rough. Really rough. I guess everything has to be on a flat grassy plain due to the budget being miniscule. And I guess they gave up on lip synching; geez.

The lack of facial expressions for the Transformers actually didn't bother me as much, because of how purely Japanese-y this series felt, it reminded me of how a lot of costumed characters in Tokusatsu shows tend to have faces that don't move either. It that sense, it made all of the Transformers feel like they were all wearing masks.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:They could have gone to the far future. Or prehistoric times.

The idea was to get kids interested in history of the Feudal Era, as all of the historical figures Isami and Tobio met were real-world individuals from actual Japanese history.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:But what can you get done in 15 minutes?

You'll see once you get to Cyberverse eventually. I like Go!, but Cyberverse ends up putting it to shame.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:It's weird that OP is actually called Optimus Exprime instead of Convoy.

Takara's been using the Hasbro names and terminology since the 2007 movie. Animated, Prime, RID 2015, Cyberverse, and all eight Paramount films have used "Optimus Prime", "Autobot", "Decepticon", etc. in all their Japanese dubs. "Convoy", "Cybertron", "Destron", etc. are nowadays mostly reserved for less mainstream Japanese media aimed at older fans.

So what's next after Go! for you?

Sabrblade wrote:A new idea just crossed my mind.

Let's say Galaxy Force is in its own universe separate from that of LOTM and Superlink, but that it's a neighboring one.

Checking back to what was said about the Giant Planet, Gigalonia, I had forgotten that it was sucked into an alternate universe (I know TV-Nihon's subtitles said "another galaxy", but they tended to confuse the Japanese word for "universe" with "galaxy" back then) in ancient times, which is why I thought the LOTM Microns could have simply traveled to it after the events of that series. But since it slipped away to another universe long ago, I realize now that that theory is impossible.

However, what if, what if, that other universe that Gigalonia disappeared into... was the LOTM/Superlink universe!? The planet arrived there back in ancient times and went to war with Planet X. After Planet X was destroyed, Gigalonia continued to reside in that universe.

If I'm understanding correctly, this could actually explain the Mini-con dilemma pretty well even if the Galaxy Force universe is connected to the ML/SL universe.

If the Giant Planet is from another universe and came to reside in the UT universe, the Mini-cons could just be another dimension's mini-cons. This would explain why their mini-cons are unconnected to Unicron, why they have carvings of ML mini-cons (it's their universe's equivalent of High Wire, etc.) and would explain why the Jolt from the Giant Planet is a vastly different character from Hot Shot's Jolt (Granted, these two may not share a name in the Japanese version).


Regarding the Unicron dilemma, my assumption was always:

A long, long time ago, Unicron was defeated. His body, weak and barely living, became Cybertron's moon over time. Perhaps this was intentional so Primus could keep an eye on him, or perhaps it was a natural occurrence over time.

In order to rebuild his strength, he needed hatred and conflict. Maybe he influences the start of the Autobot-Decepticon war, maybe not, but either way he takes advantage and, in his already long-dormant state, creates the minicons to escalate things. As the war and hatred escalates, he gets stronger and closer to being able to re-emerge, as he does in ML.

#1 Signal Lancer fan wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:A new idea just crossed my mind.

Let's say Galaxy Force is in its own universe separate from that of LOTM and Superlink, but that it's a neighboring one.

Checking back to what was said about the Giant Planet, Gigalonia, I had forgotten that it was sucked into an alternate universe (I know TV-Nihon's subtitles said "another galaxy", but they tended to confuse the Japanese word for "universe" with "galaxy" back then) in ancient times, which is why I thought the LOTM Microns could have simply traveled to it after the events of that series. But since it slipped away to another universe long ago, I realize now that that theory is impossible.

However, what if, what if, that other universe that Gigalonia disappeared into... was the LOTM/Superlink universe!? The planet arrived there back in ancient times and went to war with Planet X. After Planet X was destroyed, Gigalonia continued to reside in that universe.

If I'm understanding correctly, this could actually explain the Mini-con dilemma pretty well even if the Galaxy Force universe is connected to the ML/SL universe.

If the Giant Planet is from another universe and came to reside in the UT universe, the Mini-cons could just be another dimension's mini-cons. This would explain why their mini-cons are unconnected to Unicron, why they have carvings of ML mini-cons (it's their universe's equivalent of High Wire, etc.) and would explain why the Jolt from the Giant Planet is a vastly different character from Hot Shot's Jolt (Granted, these two may not share a name in the Japanese version).

Just so it's clear, the English version did likewise show that Gigantion (Gigalonia's English name) got pulled into another universe. But since the English version was adamant that TF: Cybertron natively took place in the same universe as Armada and Energon, this other universe that Gigantion got pulled into is just some random other universe in the English version.

This theory of mine that suggests that other universe could be the LOTM/Superlink universe is mainly trying to work for the Japanese version that has some extra continuity issues that the English version attempted to patch up.

Ok, I can see Giant crossing over into the ML universe. If Unicron's close enough to punch a hole between the two dimensions I guess it tracks.

So .... that means that the Mini-cons could just emigrate to Giant all on their own, after it arrived? It'd be a bit of a coincidence that a small group of Minicons arrived on Giant, but I guess it could happen. Although all this does is connect all the UT Minicons to one source; it just complicated the matter as opposed to them just being another reality's Minicons with a separate origin.

On Unicron's moon, I guess it tracks that he was attacked and was beaten up by Omega Supreme so long ago that it just wound up as Cybertron's moon after the fight. I suppose I forgot about the bits SL added on.

I gotta say, I always have a problem with the timelines of Transformers continuities. TFs live millions and billions of years. It belies the immediate nature of each series. Even the youngest, most immature TF is older than every nation on Earth. It boggles the mind and is something I really have to not think too hard about. I like the way Animated handled it or the Dreamwave continuity, where everyone fell asleep during a great shutdown.

On Go:

I think I'd have enjoyed it if I stuck to Shinobi. 4 episodes at 15 minutes seems about right. A nice, quick, romp. With 10 episodes it gets repetitive. Really repetitive.

I guess I can understand that it's edutainment. That doesn't save it from it's flaws; it merely explains them. I'm not sure how I'd solve the duplicate story issues the ending has. Both shows want a fight with Prime, Predaking, and their own main team. Maybe I'd have the penultimate one end more ambiguously with Prime just flying off. So he could land either to help the opposite team against Predaking (who also flies off) or to fight at the end of the show proper.

It's a tough nut to crack.

I'm gonna watch RID next. Still in the Aligned continuity!