The Energon Pub

Don't know if anyone can help but i'd appreciate some advice/feedback.

I'm in a little club, the specifics aren't necessary but that club has a website.

It's an utter piece of crap.

So I thought i'd try my hand at it, unfortunately the only way to show the other members of the club was to upload it to an entirely different URL (I went through Geocities) strictly as a temporary thing with the intention being if it was welcomed, it could then be uploaded to the clubs "official" URL.

Now the webmaster of the "official" site is also a club members, he's taken exception to my actions, mostly because he's a)- A control freak and b)- Doesn't like being upstaged. He's also fallen just short of accusing me of "stealing" the website.

But what I want to know is, who actually owns the content on the website?
The webmaster or the club it's self?

As far as i'm concerned it's the property of the club. Yes, the pictures uploaded to it were taken by him, however they feature the club.

I also look at it this way, alt modes in HMW, some of them have been created by members of this website, but once they were uploaded they give up "ownership" of them and they become part of this site, which in turn is owned by Ryan.

In my case however I feel that once he's uploaded stuff to the club's website it becomes the property of the club.

Did I steal it? No. Yes I downloaded them and re-uploaded them to another website, but with the sole intention of showing other members of the club for feedback, absoloutely no malicious intent whatsoever.

So can anyone offer up some thoughts on the situation?

The guy is an arse then.

Look him in the eye, "My site is better than yours, live with it, or lets call a club vote on which is best!"

Or best to go with what everybody else says, me and my imagenary worlds

Legaly i think your right

mattyc1007 wrote:Look him in the eye, "My site is better than yours, live with it, or lets call a club vote on which is best!"

He questioned why it wasn't brought up at last week's meeting, simple reason, I wanted feedback first from himself and other members before raising it.

For all I know it could have been a waste of my time and people may not have been interested, as such I didn't want to waste time at the meeting.

Instead all I got was a vicious tirade filled with poor spelling and poor grammar that you'd think was written by a ten year old.

Burn wrote:

mattyc1007 wrote:Look him in the eye, "My site is better than yours, live with it, or lets call a club vote on which is best!"

He questioned why it wasn't brought up at last week's meeting, simple reason, I wanted feedback first from himself and other members before raising it.

For all I know it could have been a waste of my time and people may not have been interested, as such I didn't want to waste time at the meeting.

Instead all I got was a vicious tirade filled with poor spelling and poor grammar that you'd think was written by a ten year old.

You dont like this club, do you? They dont want to look at your site! They dont appreciate you unlike we do! You aint Fat (whoops Wrong Sentence! Pun from I'm Fat!)

Why dont you try and work together? and take ideas from what other members think and do it in their way but in your view (That May Be Best the Other Way Round)

"Do you guys wanna change? Do you guy wanna try another look?

Oh I Know!

"Do you want to work as a team (Club) and have it as the real club site with a part of everyones view in it with out just being a website made by one person?"

This hurts my brain, I love helping others with problems, but when its to do with large groups of people who may Hate/Dislike your site or may Love/Cant Wait to see your site is hard to find ways to please both sides.

If it comes to the worst I'd say try a club vote after showing them the features and the teamwork ideas?

Don't know if anyone can help but i'd appreciate some advice/feedback.

Thinking about it, youre getting more views and feedback than my reviews!

mattyc1007 wrote:Why dont you try and work together?

It's hard to work with this guy.

It doesn't help that you walk around town and run into people, start talking about what we're trying to achieve, and all they say is "oh yeah, I hear from (that bloke) that he's doing all the work"

Which is crap, they're are plenty of others doing just as much, if not more, work than him, but because he's such a loud mouth, the public have got it in their head's that it's a one man show.

Like I said, a control freak.

I uploaded my site with the intention of showing other club members so that it could be discussed. As I said, all I got in response was an immature diatribe. So even if it were to be discussed at a meeting, I know how he's going to react and frankly, it's just not worth the effort.

But it's why I asked what I did, I want to know just who exactly owns the content on the club website. The club or the immature webmaster?

Burn wrote:

mattyc1007 wrote:Why dont you try and work together?

It's hard to work with this guy.

It doesn't help that you walk around town and run into people, start talking about what we're trying to achieve, and all they say is "oh yeah, I hear from (that bloke) that he's doing all the work"

Which is crap, they're are plenty of others doing just as much, if not more, work than him, but because he's such a loud mouth, the public have got it in their head's that it's a one man show.

Like I said, a control freak.

I uploaded my site with the intention of showing other club members so that it could be discussed. As I said, all I got in response was an immature diatribe. So even if it were to be discussed at a meeting, I know how he's going to react and frankly, it's just not worth the effort.

But it's why I asked what I did, I want to know just who exactly owns the content on the club website. The club or the immature webmaster?

This probaly dosnt help, but by reading you comments, I say its the club! Any Tit shouldnt have a website of content of other people and property with it just "belonging" to him, its got the club on, it surrounds the club and its a photo book of happy memories shared by the club, techically it belongs to the club but i dont know how that goes to your Legal system

1st thought:

The guy is a prat and if his stuff is crap than he is clearly threatened that the crap he's done and is (saddly) proud of is going to be tossed for your's.

2nd thought:

The guy has the position of webmaster within the group, but was this something that was assigned to him, or a claim he has made, and people went along with? If the title was assigned, was this before or after he made the site? Who owns the club URL? did the club set it up, or did this guy do it? If so, what information did he set it up with?

If this is a case where he has been assigned a position by the group and been given set resources (eg the url) then it's the clubs choice which way to go, and he really has no say if they fire/strip him of the webmaster position.

If he started the site, set everything up himself, and all the legal work belongs to him.. Then it's a legal issue that the club may not want to fight him on. But if the club wanted to, You could fight him on a case that he is using the Club name and url without permission, where legally he may need to give it up if a legal recourse is made.

Most likely thou is the the site regardless of who set it up, is under the ownership of your club. (At least I would hope so, or somebody messed up harsely by not providing oversite on this guy) In which if asked to vacact the position then you could step in (if that is what the club wishes).

The pictures can be a totally different issue, if he was the person who took them. If he is claiming ownership, than you shouldn't use them, as they are his property. HOWEVER if he does claim ownership, it can be countered that he is using them publicly without the consent of the subjects within the images (unless he had you all sign consent waivers)

Everything aside, it sounds like this will go down in a way that egos are going to get bruised, I hope that things aren't too bad for you once the dust settles.

You might want to apologize to him for overstepping him for making him feel sidelined, especially if you didn't talk to him about it first. A lot of what he's saying might be emotional, and anyone at any position would feel a little hurt if another guy came in and tried to sidestep him. Stealing, being upstaged, etc. They might just be things coming from emotion, even if he's got the reputation of a control freak.

Now I do a 180. I'd say the site and its material is the club's. Does this guy even "own" the club? Did he start the club? If he started the club, he's probably got more going for him on this stealing bit, even if he is being a prick about it. It might be tough to give a complete opinion without knowing these details, but it's something to consider.

If he doesn't start the club or "own" it, then how does he claim to own the material on its web site? Therefore, if he doesn't own the material on the web site, how can he own the web site? Can you even own a web site or a club if it's a group effort... or just be a founder? If he doesn't own anything, how can you be stealing his work? It's a group effort, right? Then the material on the site--works, ideals, etc.--aren't his in the first place, even if he worded them.

It's like Omega Sentinel claiming he owned HMW. I doubt you'd be able to use that analogy if this guy doesn't come here, but you can probably find a similar one.

If your site is better than his, then concede his point and bring it up to the group: Why wasn't it brought up at last week's meeting? Okay, then bring it up at next week's. They'll quite obviously vote for yours. And you'd be doing exactly what he suggested, so he'd have no way to complain. The only problem in doing that is that you'd not exactly be mending fences with this guy, and if he's a big part of the group, you don't exactly want to be working alongside an enemy so closely.

If this guy wants this club to get better, then he'd obviously want to go with the better site. If not, he'd quite obviously see to himself he's on an ego trip. So would everyone else.

I web master a group. I helped found the group and I suggested the site, programmed, debugged, maintained, and designed it. But if someone has a better idea, I'd step aside because the material on the site isn't mine. I did contribute to a lot of it, but it's a group effort, sort of like a "web" of material. I don't think it's my site, and I've even changed elements of it because some of the group members thought of other things, even if I didn't agree. This guy should feel the same, given the details you've mentioned.

Since you are a member of this club, your use of club photos on a sample website for the club constitutes no theft of work or intellectual property.

Out of curiosity, are the photo's watermarked in any way on the original site? If they are marked with a club logo he doesn't have any sort of leg to stand on. If he marked them with some sort of personal mark and he didn't take them he overstepped his bounds by claiming club photos as his own.

I think you mainly dealing with ego here.

His claims of theft are not the issue since your purpose for using them is not personal gain but the betterment of the club.

Let the members decide.