The Energon Pub

Whisper wrote:

Sonray wrote:

Cliff Jumper wrote:What about these for movie designs?

Awesome work, but they look too much like the g1 cartoon versions so they wouldnt work in the movie. they are awesome though, you got a DA page or something?

http://prowler974.deviantart.com/

Thanks much!

hey clifjumper, don't try to sell your crappy g! like designs here!
this movie is not a stupid old toy advertisement.
it's a stupid new toy advertisement!
get with the times geewunner.

okay i'm just kidding, those designs are the *hit.
you would really appreciate the prototype designs on the lead robot designers (for the movie) page.
he was going in the same kind of direction you are until bay stepped in. His name is ben procter.

On my older personal opinion, the main thing about the new designs is balance. Take a look, the only TF in the movie with some big back protrusion is Blackout. What does this mean? Unlike a great many giant robots, they can actually stand up straight and like, run realistically.

If you look at the toys even, they really aren't that much different than an Alternator once simplified. Gritter "skeletons", and the claws and pincers and crap (and I do love making the Decepticons into badass evil looking things, even if some are hit and miss, and I don't see why Jazz has 4 claw "hands". Let's face it, Soundwave was like a boxier Prime, and Starscream was flatout noble looking, neither of which scream EVIL), but overall fairly similar. The movie mostly just adds a lot more points of articulation to allow them to keep the pieces closer in to the body, and give better weight distribution.


And Jazz should be a 997 Turbo by now, not a 996 :p Still not quite the same as an old slantnose 935 though.

As much as I like people who can draw mechs and robots, I don't quite understand why people are still campaigning for G1 designs saying the new style is perfectly acceptable.

I found the new designs perfect, I was a little surprised quite how much they broke apart and reformed, but so long as there are still identifiable parts of the alt mode on them there is no problem.

It boils down to.. if they are such a sophisticated race of *aliens* then why would they look as cumbersome and bulky as a failing Japanese puzzle toyline made nearly 30 years ago?

Taking the old designs and making them.. the same but shiny and ILM'ed is lazy. They took the opportunity to make it better and up-to-date and that's what they achieved.

I like the new designs once I saw them actually moving and in action, even ended up liking Megatron much as I bitched about him before the movie, however, i still don't get how a design a little closer to G1 wouldn't work in a live action, if you take a masterpeice figure or an alternator, give it more articulation up the ass, it would of worked fine

That's true, but then if they made something like Alternators, people might just say, "Ahh, so they did what that Citroen C4 advert did."
After all, that advert probably made most people realise how live action Transformers are now possible. I think they just wanted to make them look like something we haven't seen before.

Grendel wrote:I like the new designs once I saw them actually moving and in action, even ended up liking Megatron much as I bitched about him before the movie, however, i still don't get how a design a little closer to G1 wouldn't work in a live action, if you take a masterpeice figure or an alternator, give it more articulation up the ass, it would of worked fine

Well, it's probably because there's nothing really otherworldly about those designs. The movie designs look to me like they might have been aiming for something that had an evolved, real chameleonic bent to it, and that's why I've grown as fond of the movie look as I have.

Thanks roy_flagg00, but as Whisper pointed out another artist drew those. Sorry I didn't know his real name only his screan name Prowler_974a

I'd prefer something like this really. Kup would rock in the new movie.
This is more along my type of art.

I've seen the movie twice, and I thought the story itself was great, and served its purpose, which was to basically introduce the audience to the Transformers from a Human perspective. Did it have flaws in the die-hard fan's perspective? sure, but if it was set up for just the pure fan, it wouldn't have worked as a moive that would appeal to a large audience. Also, remember, this isn't some epic "high art", highbrow art film. It's a sci-fi action adventure summer "fun" movie based on a cartoon and toy series so I don't expect a very deep plot, nor does it need one. In fact, too deep a plot actually hurts a movie like this. It was deep enough though and had good characterizations of the main characters and interactions between them.

As for the designs. They were very well done and worked great on screen. As an artist myself, I can objectively state that straight G1 accurate designs would not work, and not just because of the aesthetics. They wouldn't work because they are too limited in their range of motion. And, for the record, yes, the designers at ILM did do test shots using G1 accurate designs, and they looked ridiculous. They didn't work. They didn't look realistic. The final designs were a much better choice and worked better than even I expected. Saying that, they could have been simplified by having more armor plating covering the exposed internal components without losing the realism or making them blocky. One thing about all those little parts is though, that they all form parts of the vehicle from body panels to internal engine and drive-train components. The robots were literally built out of even the smallest parts of their alt modes. Every piece of the robot formed a different part of the vehicle. Would I have gone that direction had I been Art Director? No, becuase they are a little overly complex. But by the same token, I would not have used straight G1 designs with added details.

As for Bay's use of GM vehicles for the movie, and the use of a Camaro for Bumblebee in particular. Bay wasn't told by GM what vehicles to use for what characters. he went to them because he has had good relations with them on previous movies. Also, it was Bay who chose the 2009 Camaro for Bumblebee over using his classic alt mode. He flat out had no intentiob of using a VW Bug because of the new Herby the Love Bugmovie, which he hated, and didn't want Bumblebee associated with. He wanted to move completely away from that "stigma" as he saw it. The only problem I had with Bumblebee's design is I would have liked his basic transformation to be more along the lines of his original character even with the Camaro body (i.e. having the roof of his car mode as his chest and the front end as his feet), which I think could have been done without losing too much range of motion if done right. That is probably the only real disappointment I had with the Autobot designs (not counting Prime). They all had the front ends (namely hood, fenders and grill) forming their chests, and their back ends forming their feet. None of them had front ends for feet, roofs for chests, etc. A little more variety would have been nice, but it certainly didn't kill the moive; I still love the designs they used. I really think the only "bad call" they had with any of them was Megatron's alternate mode. I would not have used a Cybetronian jet for an alt mode. A Cybertronian tank would have been a better choice IMO, but once again, it isn't a real loss.

Personally, I would have liked to see a little more similarity to the G1 designs, mainly in facial structure. Jazz snd Prime were allright, but Rachet, Ironhide, and Starscream were too diffrent. Bay didn't need to change them to that extent. I also don't understand why Ironhide couldnt have been red. The changes in some of the altmodes bug me to.

As for Prime needing a mouth so he could show emotion I disagree. I didn't pickup any emotion from prime's face at all. And honestly, flames on a truck just seem stupid to me.

Frankly, I'd need to see these test shots before I ever agree that the redesigns were as nessecary as Bay claims.

It's starting to drive me nuts that so many are going with a binary rethoric here. It's not either 1 or 0.

There's a lot of possible middle ground between the G1 look and that of the movie, not to mention the virtually infinite alternative routes they could've come up with.

In other words:
The movie style was not the only option.

I don't see why people argue about this, the movie has already been made, nothing u can do about it. The movie designs worked and looked awesome i might add

I have a lot of fond memories of G1 Transformers. I am partial to alot of those characters.

I think the new movie character designs were great. To me, what really mattered was that the autobots personalities fit for the most part with their g1 versions. The decepticons, not so much. I think the designs are kick ass though.

Creature SH wrote:It's starting to drive me nuts that so many are going with a binary rethoric here. It's not either 1 or 0.

There's a lot of possible middle ground between the G1 look and that of the movie, not to mention the virtually infinite alternative routes they could've come up with.

In other words:
The movie style was not the only option.

God, how many times that's been repeated.
And it's still valid.

Great Atlas
Post Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:49 pm Post subject:
I don't see why people argue about this, the movie has already been made, nothing u can do about it. The movie designs worked and looked awesome i might add

That's truly a matter of opinion.
There's nothing all that sexy about angled sheet metal with billions of twist-ties as the inner structure. That seems so... lazy I guess you could say.

Ok, so they DEFINITELY required designs which held a larger range of movement. Who wouldn't agree?!?
But how that translates into their faces looking like silver car windshields who've had the glass punched in is beyond me.

And their bodies now look weak. One good rocket launched into their not-so-solid inner structure = it exploding right INSIDE their bodies!
There's like, no protection!

The old guys certainly had flaws... the new guys did too...
...but the in-between was TOTALLY missed.
Yeah, those early, more G1-ish designs BLEW, but they too didn't manage to hit the halfway point me and Creature SH and Roy_Flagg know was possible.

Hmm... just thought... maybe these early G1 designs of much suckass were released WITH the intention of trying to silence those that wanted it all more G1? Like maybe they INTENTIONALLY made them suck to shut people up AFTER the movie was out (or BEFORE the movie was finished, to give them a green light to do whatever they wanted)?

How utterly amazing this movie and it's robot designs could've been. To say "well, it had some flaws", is being apologetic to levels beyond my comprehension.

Of course the movie style wasn't the ONLY option

Film designs go through loads of different ideas, and clearly they made the choice to go with what they have now. Personally I think it was the right choice.
Everyone has their own opinions, you may love or hate the new designs, but I am curious to know what this perfect "in-between" option looks like.

CJH wrote:Of course the movie style wasn't the ONLY option

Film designs go through loads of different ideas, and clearly they made the choice to go with what they have now. Personally I think it was the right choice.
Everyone has their own opinions, you may love or hate the new designs, but I am curious to know what this perfect "in-between" option looks like.

I can answer this:

Slightly blocky, but not G1 blocky. Probably more covering on the frames. (Which wouldn't be any easier or harder, just different)

Shadowman wrote:

CJH wrote:Of course the movie style wasn't the ONLY option

Film designs go through loads of different ideas, and clearly they made the choice to go with what they have now. Personally I think it was the right choice.
Everyone has their own opinions, you may love or hate the new designs, but I am curious to know what this perfect "in-between" option looks like.

I can answer this:

Slightly blocky, but not G1 blocky. Probably more covering on the frames. (Which wouldn't be any easier or harder, just different)

Oh.. so not really that much different then...
When I think about the film, in terms of designs of the robots, the ONLY thing I can really put fault to is the filming of the fights; the robots are very detailed, and taking the first Barricade/Bumblebee fight as an example, it seemed too fast and too.. "up close" and those details are lost.

I didn't like the new designs when I first saw the film. But I am used to them now. I also like them now. TF2 and TF3 are coming so......might as well be used to the designs.

Think about this. Most of us are between the ages of 18 - 35 right? What happens when we are 38 - 55 and a new set of Transformers films comes out. They will not look how these designs look. Transformers is Hasbro's baby...similar to Spiderman & X-Men being Marvels bread winner. I'm ok with the new designs because I KNOW things change, but Transformers is not going anywhere. In the year 2057 I doubt Bumblebee will be a Chevrolet Camaro.

Blackout  wrote:

Riotflea wrote:And their bodies now look weak. One good rocket launched into their not-so-solid inner structure = it exploding right INSIDE their bodies!
There's like, no protection!

But there is protection. The whole body is made up of a material that is tough. The car or plane sections you see are just the 'disguise-shell' not armour.

Are you aware that a detonation inside of an object does much more damage than one on its surface ?

Oh, and I just realized that the middle ground isn't all that far away. I mean, have a look at... http://tformers.com/ig.php?mode=view&al ... 00&start=0

This toy has - for practical reasons - a more coherent surface than the movie design itself. Now, take that as a tweak, plop a G1-sier head onto it, and I'd be perfectly content as far as design goes.

Blackout  wrote:I really don't see what the issue here is. The body is the body is the body. Just because we see the car bits slide to the side to reveal Bumblebee's leg sections or whatever, doesn't mean we are seeing his 'innards'. Until someone actually conducts a proper study on a Transformer, no one can really make a scientific statement that the design would be weaker. We're dealing with alien robots.

But we're also dealing with a movie. Media. What we see is all there is to it. And if it looks flimsy and unprotected, that's what it is.

creature are you in your 30's, do u live in your mother's basement, and have you never talked to a woman in real life?

Your being way too
It is just a movie and transformers aren't real and the designers should feel free to design them as they please with any explanation to how they work since they have the ability to do so