The Energon Pub

OptiMagnus10 wrote:Unfortunately, it breaks my heart to see that you view Bay's work as "excessive, vile, and disrespectful".

Why?

Seriously?

Why do you allow the opinions of others and how they view TF affect your view and enjoyment of TF?

Burn wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:Unfortunately, it breaks my heart to see that you view Bay's work as "excessive, vile, and disrespectful".

Why?

Seriously?

Why do you allow the opinions of others and how they view TF affect your view and enjoyment of TF?

More disappointment then letting it affect me.

But why be disappointed?

It's their lives, it's their passion, it's theirs to enjoy how they feel like just like yours is yours to enjoy how you want.

Why be concerned about how others feel about TF's? Just enjoy them your way.

Burn wrote:But why be disappointed?

It's their lives, it's their passion, it's theirs to enjoy how they feel like just like yours is yours to enjoy how you want.

Why be concerned about how others feel about TF's? Just enjoy them your way.

Because it's difficult to find joy when you feel surrounded by naysayers.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but no one recognizes it. It's easier to tear down and troll, than it is to say "I disagree, but hey, whatever floats your boat. re power to ya."

After a steady dose of "YOU'RE WRONG! THEY SUCK AND YOU SUCK FOR LIKING EM!" and having it come from several people at once....it takes it's toll.

The joys of sharing fly right out the window.

We're supposed to have a sense of community here on the boards (when I say here, I don't mean just Seibertron, I mean the online community as a whole), but lately, everyone's more interested in their opinion being the golden truth and your's doesn't matter.

You say we should ignore them and just be satisfied in our own little piece of the world, and that's true, to an extent, but how are we supposed to be communal when we're feeling ostracized?

Especially over toys, cartoons and comic books? That's a sucker punch to the kidneys when you finally let it sink in.

"I'm getting the **** beat out of me by some idiot...over toys? How low have *I* sunk?"

That shouldn't be happening. Ever.

So, yeah, it's entirely possible to have someone else suck the fun out of it for you. Even if we shouldn't let them bother us with their words, we do, anyway. We're human, we're prone to doing just that. Even the people who seem to keep a stiff upper lip, they finally cave at some point, no one's impervious.

That's part of what makes us human. We're not machines, we were never intended to be, and when we seek the approval of our peers and we end up spat upon, it does bring dismay.

Autobot032 wrote:After a steady dose of "YOU'RE WRONG! THEY SUCK AND YOU SUCK FOR LIKING EM!" and having it come from several people at once....it takes it's toll.

Only if you allow it.

You say we should ignore them and just be satisfied in our own little piece of the world, and that's true, to an extent, but how are we supposed to be communal when we're feeling ostracized?

Persistance. Somewhere out there is someone who feels the same way you do about something.

And in all honesty, just with this site alone, I think all of us can find something to relate to with someone else. The trick is to not let someone elses opinion get to you.

Plus the other trick is to keep an open mind. If someone disagrees with you, read what they're saying, open your mind, and actually think it through instead of getting annoyed by it.

So, yeah, it's entirely possible to have someone else suck the fun out of it for you. Even if we shouldn't let them bother us with their words, we do, anyway. We're human, we're prone to doing just that. Even the people who seem to keep a stiff upper lip, they finally cave at some point, no one's impervious.

Again, it's only if you allow it. There is such a thing as the back button. Take a walk, cool down, because quite frankly, allowing someone's opinion that you read on the internet about children's toys annoy you or piss you off is quite silly at the end of the day.

Everyone's entitled to enjoy TF's the way they see fit. The only time that can be taken away from them is if we allow it to happen.

That's part of what makes us human. We're not machines, we were never intended to be, and when we seek the approval of our peers and we end up spat upon, it does bring dismay.

Sorry, but I don't see why I need to seek the approval of my peers.

I've been plenty spat on when it comes to TF collecting. I've been told by one guy i'm not a "real" collector unless I have within a hundred TF's to his thousand plus collection.

I've been called dumb and stupid because I enjoyed the movies.

I've been crticised for saying I don't like Animated or that I actually enjoyed Beast Machines.

But did I let those words worry me? Nope. Because at the end of the day I enjoy TF's MY way and I REFUSE to allow someone else to dictate to me what I should and shouldn't like.

Like I said, it's only if you allow it.

Autobot032 wrote:

Burn wrote:But why be disappointed?

It's their lives, it's their passion, it's theirs to enjoy how they feel like just like yours is yours to enjoy how you want.

Why be concerned about how others feel about TF's? Just enjoy them your way.

Because it's difficult to find joy when you feel surrounded by naysayers.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but no one recognizes it. It's easier to tear down and troll, than it is to say "I disagree, but hey, whatever floats your boat. re power to ya."

After a steady dose of "YOU'RE WRONG! THEY SUCK AND YOU SUCK FOR LIKING EM!" and having it come from several people at once....it takes it's toll.

The joys of sharing fly right out the window.

We're supposed to have a sense of community here on the boards (when I say here, I don't mean just Seibertron, I mean the online community as a whole), but lately, everyone's more interested in their opinion being the golden truth and your's doesn't matter.

You say we should ignore them and just be satisfied in our own little piece of the world, and that's true, to an extent, but how are we supposed to be communal when we're feeling ostracized?

Especially over toys, cartoons and comic books? That's a sucker punch to the kidneys when you finally let it sink in.

"I'm getting the **** beat out of me by some idiot...over toys? How low have *I* sunk?"

That shouldn't be happening. Ever.

So, yeah, it's entirely possible to have someone else suck the fun out of it for you. Even if we shouldn't let them bother us with their words, we do, anyway. We're human, we're prone to doing just that. Even the people who seem to keep a stiff upper lip, they finally cave at some point, no one's impervious.

That's part of what makes us human. We're not machines, we were never intended to be, and when we seek the approval of our peers and we end up spat upon, it does bring dismay.

Bingo! This is exactly how I feel. It seems people think it is easier to dismiss others accusations than it really is. This is very relevant to the subject itself. Thanks for posting this.

Well as Autobot032 said: We are humans. This means we have weak spots that are always prone to collapse. It is hard to ignore people who are in your face. If something brings up a red flag, you naturally don't tell yourself to ignore it. It's only human nature to be defensive. If you train yourself enough you can overcome that. But it's just not natural to hold emotion in.

Okay, are you talking online or out in the real world?

Because if it's out in the real world that's a whole different kettle of fish.

But online? Yeah ... back button ... take a walk outside. Trust me on that.

Burn wrote:Like I said, it's only if you allow it.

Easier said than done. I'll leave it at that.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:Bingo! This is exactly how I feel. It seems people think it is easier to dismiss others accusations than it really is. This is very relevant to the subject itself. Thanks for posting this.

I've been there. People think I'm an asshole simply because I want to be, and some of the time it's true, but not always and it wasn't always like that.

I've been treated like crap on some of the boards, sometimes without provocation. Why? Because of my opinion.

Now, don't get me wrong, sometimes I instigated and I'm fully aware that I'm no angel. But after being dogpiled and instead of the mods and admins stepping in, they helped the dogpile, it leaves you to be a bit prickish. That's one of the main reasons why I love Seibertron. The mods and admins help the people, not abuse them like the others.

When I first came to message boards back in '99, one of my first posts was to diffuse a situation that was about to go bad. I was just posting my feelings and people embraced what I had to say and it was a rush.

So, I wasn't always a dick. I actually contributed rather than detracted from the conversation, bu after a very long time of getting it from all sides, sometimes when I hadn't done anything wrong, it took it's toll. I'm not the only one who's experienced that.

Autobot Smoketreader wrote:Autobot 032, I've got a question for you,and actually, maybe for everyone- because I know your answer will be a fair, honest and proper one.

Well, I appreciate that. I'll certainly try.

Autobot Smoketreader wrote:Do you think G2 characters getting redone into C.H.U.G would fit/start making inroads towards the criteria you feel is missing/ needs addressing? You know, like the old Turbomasters, Throttlebots, Sparkabots and Aquaspeeders, looking as glorious as the latest Kup, Wheeljack, Rumble and Frenzy.

No. I think they'd merely be updates and nothing more. Highly detailed and collector oriented, sure, but updates.

Though, I do think they should be updated, regardless of the fun factor or not. A lot of people embraced the new molds G2 had to offer, and they definitely deserve a revisit.

The Sparkabots will never return. Fire hazards and whatnot.

Throttlebots...too simplistic. Gravity Bots kinda do that already.

Autobot Smoketreader wrote:They seem never to really consider G2, nor do we.I'm not a major supporter of the Headmasters,who appear to get all the airtime in G2 recollection talk,but there is a whole lot more than just those in the G2 line, and I do like virtually all the rest.

There were no Head, Target or Powermasters in G2. I think you might've gotten the wrong information.

Autobot Smoketreader wrote:Furthermore, altho I'm blown away by the new stuff, absolutely happy about Tracks and Wheeljack ans Tomahawk,they'll run out of G1 characters in due time.Shouldn't they continue on with G2? And wouldn't the old G2 Gimmicks appeal to kids who arguably would normally be keyed to shop outside of the C.H.U.G lines?

G2 didn't have a large number of original characters. It was mostly a revival line with a few new molds thrown in. Once you get through those characters, G1 and G2 can be put to rest. However, with the comics, the 'toons, and the toys, there's plenty of characters to go through before they run out.

The G2 gimmicks might work for some, but not for others. I still think that Hasbro was onto something grand with Armada. The ability to integrate and customize and combine was handled really well. Some of the gimmicks weren't the best, I admit, but the idea behind it was brilliant. The intention was good. Now that we have the technology to make an articulated figure and have gimmicks, we could see the technology of Superbase Prime, with the looks of ROTF Leader Class Prime.

One of the things about Armada that did work was that it had cool gimmicks. Not every one of them was good, some were downright dumb, but when the good ones did work, they were enjoyable. It's just that the robots were held back by their lack of posability and low level of detail.

Autobot Smoketreader wrote:Would you consider a water cannon toting or rotor shooting toy of the same size and quality of the rest of the RTS line to be equally as playable, and displayable as what you refer to above? Even tho they are not combiners, they are teams, which TF3's release will theoretically popularise with the wreckers and the Dreads...and there are still combiners throughout G1 and G2 for the RTS line to tinker with.

Well, things like the color changing G2 bots with the water guns were lackluster, I thought. Animated Optimus Prime's functional water cannon, on the other hand, neat feature, considering he's a fire truck. Some of the gimmicks in the past were really misplaced.

Autobot Smoketreader wrote:I own a modest collection of G2 stuff, The Illuminator boss, Electro, can be redone right now with the RTS Kup model painted gold and a tiny battery pack,sword and head swap thrown in, and plenty of see-through plastic pieces are being done right now, so Sparkabots shouldn't be too outlandish as a 'new' look.The only thing I'd be afraid of is the Aquaspeeders shooting at and shorting out the the other battery powered toys.

What does everybody think?

Oh, I definitely think the G2 figures could and should be updated. Don't expect electronics on Deluxe figures though. Hasbro simply won't do it. Not when lightpiping is available.

As for the water cannon thing, it's a possibility due to the lack of electronics on Deluxes.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I think updating G2 characters and giving us a Jhiaxus (one that's accurate and not a simple and ugly redeco) would be a great idea.

Counterpunch wrote:As for bringing back another age of gimmickry (which I never had a problem with)...

2002-2007 was all gimmicks. Armada through Cybertron was one long gimmick parade. I'm perfectly fine balancing that out with more early G1 style figures where the look and transformation is all that is needed to carry a line.

Speaking of that era, I'd say Energon was probably the best when it came to gimmicks and figure sacrifice.

It's main gimmick was the Energon weapons built from the Scout Class figures being able to be used by the larger figures. The Energon chips were a waste of plastic, but they weren't terribly obtrusive, really.

Powerlinking was handled well for the most part. No Mini-Con or Cyberkey required for transformation or to release a gimmick. You just needed two Deluxe Class figures and their weapons and you were as good as gold. And since you were able to make the combo work both ways, you had a gimmick with options, much like Armada, without being as obtrusive.

The figures still had a rather impressive range of mobility without too much being sacrificed.

Then we went back to the "you need this to make this work" mentality and the keys are boring. They do nothing but unlock. That's it. The Mini-Cons at least did something while having another function.

I'd say that Armada laid the groundwork and had great ideas, Energon handled both gimmicks and mobility nicely, and Cybertron just dropped the ball all around. (Some of the designs looked good but ended up being ridiculous, and some of the designs were just ridiculous and the key necessity just dragged 'em down even more.

Just another accessory to lose and if it wasn't for the locks, you wouldn't give a damn if you did.

Counterpunch wrote:I think Hasbro and Takara owe us a great deal.

I also do not entirely believe that collectors account for an "insignificant" portion of sales. They may not be the majority, but even if only 10% that's enough of a potential loss to scare any company.

I agree with this. I don't really think that anything can ruin my enjoyment of Transformers, because I have loved them for long enough that the only opinion that matters about them is mine. If you're so hurt that someone else doesn't like what you like maybe your interest in it should either be less superficial or more personal. But that may be just me, as I've spent most of my life liking unpopular things, I guess.

---all 'you's are general, not aimed at any one so, you know, contain your disdain---

What I don't like is what Counterpunch is saying. I am all for making children happy, ok, and I'm a teacher and all of that, so I am generally not in need of lectures about how I need to be sensitive to the wants and needs of children. I don't like the constantly repeated notion that as a fan, a company to which I annually give a lot of money doesn't care about me, and that I don't matter to the company.
I resent the idea that the movies and the comics and toylines that often feature $50+ pieces of merchandise are part of a franchise aimed solely at kids, and that it's nice that we adults like to play along. Cartoons and toys and stuff, sure. But come on, the Bay movies are designed mainly with the interest of children in mind.
If we are really content with considering ourselves as a meager 10% of Hasbros' business or concern, we need self-esteem help as a fandom and a group of human beings. How can you be alright with being insignificant to a franchise you love, but you cry yourself to sleep because some guy on the Internet points out some holes in Revenge of the Fallen? Bet IDW doesn't think we grown ups are insignificant, or a small percentage of their sales. Fun Pub doesn't. All the 3rd party people and the other companies that do add on merchandise, or like Activision with WFC, I bet they don't think we're just some minor group. Does DC Comics think their adult readers are some fringe bunch because some 5th graders also read Superman?
I also think we're owed something, but the PC fandom answer is "these things are for kids, so we shouldn't complain...." I think we are owed quality products, and we get them. Any business that doesn't offer quality products generally doesn't do too much business. Hasbro doesn't need to specifically cater to what I want, and they shouldn;t, because if I dont like what they're offering me, then I don't buy it.
But I do deserve to not be marginalized and then still looked at to buy product. If I don't matter because I'm not a child, don't make lines that are aimed at 'collectors'. Hasbro sends their people to Botcon, right? So, obviously someone cares about what we think. The fandom needs to let go of its emo shoegazing outlook of 'no one cares about what we think'. If I don't like a stupid Michael Bay movie people get high and mighty and say I should get a new hobby? I don't have to like anything, and opposition is true friendship.
We are not insignificant, man up some and realize that. I don't care what sales numbers or a company says. I've invested a lot of time and money and most importantly love into this franchise. Maybe you don't mean anything to it, but I sure do.

Burn wrote:Okay, are you talking online or out in the real world?

Because if it's out in the real world that's a whole different kettle of fish.

But online? Yeah ... back button ... take a walk outside. Trust me on that.

Not totally different. Yes, the person themselves isn't there in front of you, but as long as you can understand the text, you will take it a certain way. When someone types they hope TF3 fails because I like something that "sucks" and they will laugh when it does (which will most likely not happen), yeah I'm going to have an opinion and naturally I'm going to take offense to that. Yes, it would be best if I left it alone, but that's not the instinct of the human mind. I will probably ask the person for backup on why the movies "suck" to help them realize their statement was an opinion being stated as a fact, and that they get nothing from my own passion being ruined (if it would). You mentioned to Autobot032 about being open minded. I think we can help each other become open minded through conversation, and in the past few weeks people have helped me even become open minded. But just arguing on and on until it turns into a "yo momma" fight or something even dumber does not go anywhere. So, instead of firing back and telling the two of us to stop allowing it, consider our words carefully.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

Burn wrote:Okay, are you talking online or out in the real world?

Because if it's out in the real world that's a whole different kettle of fish.

But online? Yeah ... back button ... take a walk outside. Trust me on that.

Not totally different. Yes, the person themselves isn't there in front of you, but as long as you can understand the text, you will take it a certain way. When someone types they hope TF3 fails because I like something that "sucks" and they will laugh when it does (which will most likely not happen), yeah I'm going to have an opinion and naturally I'm going to take offense to that. Yes, it would be best if I left it alone, but that's not the instinct of the human mind. I will probably ask the person for backup on why the movies "suck" to help them realize their statement was an opinion being stated as a fact, and that they get nothing from my own passion being ruined (if it would). You mentioned to Autobot032 about being open minded. I think we can help each other become open minded through conversation, and in the past few weeks people have helped me even become open minded. But just arguing on and on until it turns into a "yo momma" fight or something even dumber does not go anywhere. So, instead of firing back and telling the two of us to stop allowing it, consider our words carefully.

I understand what you are saying, ok, but being open minded and accepting and stuff is a two way street. People probably shouldn't hope that a movie you like will fail, but not everyone is going to like everything. Sure some people have been jags about the Bay movies, but that's not fair to me either.
I didn't like Revenge of the Fallen, and I've stated that before. I have never yelled and screamed about how it sucks or it's for morons or anything, but I get yelled at because people do that. So, if I'm not supposed to say that I didn't like something you liked, why can people yell at me because some other guy was less than considerate? Some one told me I had a persecution complex and did this whole psycho analysis on me like they know me as a person because I didnt like a movie, but it's me who's the closed minded and insensitive one? Right. I didn't like the movie. I never got loud and wild about it, and I didn't let other peoples' crybabying "ruin the franchise" for me. Sometimes, you liking something needs to be good enough for you, and not the approval of every other Internet persona.

Autobot032 wrote:

Burn wrote:Like I said, it's only if you allow it.

Easier said than done. I'll leave it at that.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:Bingo! This is exactly how I feel. It seems people think it is easier to dismiss others accusations than it really is. This is very relevant to the subject itself. Thanks for posting this.

I've been there. People think I'm an asshole simply because I want to be, and some of the time it's true, but not always and it wasn't always like that.

I've been treated like crap on some of the boards, sometimes without provocation. Why? Because of my opinion.

Now, don't get me wrong, sometimes I instigated and I'm fully aware that I'm no angel. But after being dogpiled and instead of the mods and admins stepping in, they helped the dogpile, it leaves you to be a bit prickish. That's one of the main reasons why I love Seibertron. The mods and admins help the people, not abuse them like the others.

When I first came to message boards back in '99, one of my first posts was to diffuse a situation that was about to go bad. I was just posting my feelings and people embraced what I had to say and it was a rush.

So, I wasn't always a dick. I actually contributed rather than detracted from the conversation, bu after a very long time of getting it from all sides, sometimes when I hadn't done anything wrong, it took it's toll. I'm not the only one who's experienced that.

Yes, easier said than done.
Yes, what is good to realize is that we're all no angels. I'm glad you point this out. No one's perfect.
People think I'm full of crap a lot too. There are probably a lot of people here that wish I was gone rather than putting my opinion up here. I even remember you, Autobot, about the first day I was here, and your response immediately resonated "idiot" in my brain. But you have said a lot of things that are meaningful to me in recent days, and I noticed your signature, which means a lot to me. I am trying my best to fully consider other ideas, and I'm trying to spread that idea to those who are quick to judge. I see where you are coming from, and lets face it, we've all been assholes at one time or another.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:So, instead of firing back and telling the two of us to stop allowing it, consider our words carefully.

And will you consider mine?

Dagon wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

Burn wrote:I understand what you are saying, ok, but being open minded and accepting and stuff is a two way street. People probably shouldn't hope that a movie you like will fail, but not everyone is going to like everything. Sure some people have been jags about the Bay movies, but that's not fair to me either.
I didn't like Revenge of the Fallen, and I've stated that before. I have never yelled and screamed about how it sucks or it's for morons or anything, but I get yelled at because people do that. So, if I'm not supposed to say that I didn't like something you liked, why can people yell at me because some other guy was less than considerate? Some one told me I had a persecution complex and did this whole psycho analysis on me like they know me as a person because I didnt like a movie, but it's me who's the closed minded and insensitive one? Right. I didn't like the movie. I never got loud and wild about it, and I didn't let other peoples' crybabying "ruin the franchise" for me. Sometimes, you liking something needs to be good enough for you, and not the approval of every other Internet persona.

Well, I'm glad you haven't yelled and screamed that it sucks. That says you are open minded. But I don't understand what you mean by you getting yelled at for something you didn't do. Also, I'm not saying we shouldn't say we don't like something, but it's when we hound people for something they like, and our only reason is "because it sucks and it's for morons". Those aren't real reasons. And yes, I have a few issues with TF2. The stupid sexual jokes, the high mom, Jolt had almost NO SCREEN TIME. I really wanted Jolt to have a big role...ok I got off track there. I hope when you discuss with others why you don't like the movies, you also give real reasons as to why you don't. Just saying it sucks is a close minded statement.
And someone tried to do some psycho analysis on you? Ok that's just a little out there.

Burn wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:So, instead of firing back and telling the two of us to stop allowing it, consider our words carefully.

And will you consider mine?

Yes, like I said. You almost have to train yourself from letting your instinct go wild and weigh your options. I will at least try.

Burn wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:So, instead of firing back and telling the two of us to stop allowing it, consider our words carefully.

And will you consider mine?

When will you consider our's?

I'm sorry, but that post seems awfully tit for tat, really.

If we're to be held to a higher standard, why not you?

I've only tried to impart my experience here. For many years i've had others with differing opinions to mine, don't even get me started on what these forums were like before and soon after the first movie was released.

In the real world i've been pre-judged by many people for many years.

So i've learnt over the years to not only accept that what people think and feel may be different to me, but to not let them ruin my enjoyment of something, or to allow their opinions of me to bring me down.

Go back early into this thread and you'll see my intial response, the only thing that can ruin TF's forever is yourself.

It's not other people ruining TF's for you, it's you allowing them to ruin it for you.

I'm not holding anyone to higher standards, i'm simply sharing my experiences.

Burn wrote:I've only tried to impart my experience here. For many years i've had others with differing opinions to mine, don't even get me started on what these forums were like before and soon after the first movie was released.

In the real world i've been pre-judged by many people for many years.

So i've learnt over the years to not only accept that what people think and feel may be different to me, but to not let them ruin my enjoyment of something, or to allow their opinions of me to bring me down.

Go back early into this thread and you'll see my intial response, the only thing that can ruin TF's forever is yourself.

It's not other people ruining TF's for you, it's you allowing them to ruin it for you.

I'm not holding anyone to higher standards, i'm simply sharing my experiences.

YES! We ruin it for OURSELVES! Then I got accused for telling people to go hate themselves? No, I suggested what we've been discussing. We need to listen to each other. Although I think the real issue is that we're trying to ruin it for the other guy who sees things a little differently, and when the whole community starts engaging in that, we gradually ruin it for each other.

Burn wrote:I've only tried to impart my experience here. For many years i've had others with differing opinions to mine, don't even get me started on what these forums were like before and soon after the first movie was released.

In the real world i've been pre-judged by many people for many years.

So i've learnt over the years to not only accept that what people think and feel may be different to me, but to not let them ruin my enjoyment of something, or to allow their opinions of me to bring me down.

Go back early into this thread and you'll see my intial response, the only thing that can ruin TF's forever is yourself.

It's not other people ruining TF's for you, it's you allowing them to ruin it for you.

I'm not holding anyone to higher standards, i'm simply sharing my experiences.

You, yourself said "Hit the back button".
You mention the time when the movie came out (I remember, it was...bad.)

Here's the problem, and you're still not willing to see it...

How many times should a person have to hit the back button?
How many times should a person be forced to walk away from voicing and then defending their opinion?

There's something to be said for keeping the peace, which I'm all for, I really am.

But, there's also something to be said for not letting people walk all over you either. And you know as well as I do that if a person is pissed enough, that the back button doesn't prevent them from coming to you in a PM and harassing you.

How do you back button out of it at that point? Yeah, you can report them, but there's a chance they'll ignore what the mods/admins told them and do it anyway.

The only other escape at that point is to leave the board, even temporarily. But why should anyone have to? (And please don't insult my intelligence, or anyone else's by saying it doesn't come to that, because it has.)

I think people's words affect you more than you let on, but because you have the mod tag attached to your name, you know they can only go so far.

Us regular board members don't have that. Hell, on some boards, the mods and admins abuse that power and make it doubly difficult.

I was banned from TFW long ago because I disagreed with Kickback. I couldn't take his "Do as I say, don't do as I do" crap anymore. I fought back and I got banned for it. I wasn't able to defend myself.

The only option? I had to leave the board, forcefully. There was no back button.

It shouldn't ever have to come to that. A troll? Sure. An average board member giving their opinion? No.

That's why I love Seibertron. There's no fear of that here, but in all fairness, there seems to be a better class of people here too. (Though, troublemakers do pop up from time to time.)

What option do you have left when you want to be a part of the community, but others won't let you because they make you uncomfortable because of your opinions?

Past a certain point, what you're offering here is not an option. It's a tail tucking between the legs at some point.

For the most part, yeah, we can ignore what others say and do and go on about our business and be in peace, but like the time of the first movie, some people wouldn't let their fellow fans have peace, and there was no walking away.

Problem is, some of that mentality is starting to make a resurgence, because some of the older fans are becoming set in their ways and feel a sense of entitlement.

New ones don't know when to check their mouths at the door, and old ones are starting to not care anymore.

You can warn, or help get someone banned if you deem it necessary. You *can* escape them.

We cannot. If one person goes down, another pops up in their place.

I don't know how else to say it, or how many times to say it, but it's not all cut and dry as you make it out to be.

Being a moderator and dealing with people like the ones I'm talking about...I'd think you'd know better than anyone that there isn't always a way out. At least not one that's amicable for everyone.

And being forced out of a board? Being told that you don't have a voice or you're stupid for it? That does ruin it for others. No matter how much you wish to say it doesn't.

I don't want to go back to TFW. It became misery towards the end. How does that not affect me or my ability to enjoy TFs?

In the end, yes, we have the ultimate say so I suppose, but others do help make it or break it for you. That's part of being in a community. No community was built by one person, it takes people. Plural.

I'm sorry, but I disagree and will continue to do so. Other people can ruin it for you. They don't always, but they can.

Not to mention the people that complain at the conventions during the panels and in the Q&As. (Granted, that's more on you because at this point you could tune them out, which I never denied.)

I get where you're coming from, I do. I just don't agree with it. There's not always an amicable outcome, and that's something we all have to face. Ignoring it will not make it go away.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:Then I got accused for telling people to go hate themselves?

Sorry. I missed that post.

Personally that's the sort of thing you can use the "report this post" button for and let a Mod step in and sort things out.

It's not overly flaming, but it's borderline, at the very least you'll end up with someone watching the thread closely.

Although I think the real issue is that we're trying to ruin it for the other guy who sees things a little differently,

Do you think people are doing that consciously or sub-consciously? It's a very interesting point, i'm thinking sub-consciously and we're not actually aware we're doing it.

Burn wrote:Do you think people are doing that consciously or sub-consciously? It's a very interesting point, i'm thinking sub-consciously and we're not actually aware we're doing it.

Excellent question. I can't speak for him, but I do think it's somewhere in the middle.

There have been times when something sounded better in my head, but once on screen I realized "Oooh. That was bad." Moments like that, I think it's sub-conscious, sometimes our mouths and hands aren't in step with our conscious brain.

Then, there are the times when we have that "I WILL be heard, dammit!" mentality and force feed it.

So, I'd say it's middle of the road, I don't think it's more of one over the other.

Excellent question, though.

Burn wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:Then I got accused for telling people to go hate themselves?

Sorry. I missed that post.

Personally that's the sort of thing you can use the "report this post" button for and let a Mod step in and sort things out.

It's not overly flaming, but it's borderline, at the very least you'll end up with someone watching the thread closely.

Although I think the real issue is that we're trying to ruin it for the other guy who sees things a little differently,

Do you think people are doing that consciously or sub-consciously? It's a very interesting point, i'm thinking sub-consciously and we're not actually aware we're doing it.

Yeah I meant sub-consciously. I'm saying we kind of react to quickly without really thinking about what we're telling others.
Although we can do consciously if our intent is to get a reaction out of the other person, for the sole purpose of self-entertainment in watching them blow up in front of you.

Autobot032 wrote:There have been times when something sounded better in my head, but once on screen I realized "Oooh. That was bad." Moments like that, I think it's sub-conscious, sometimes our mouths and hands aren't in step with our conscious brain.

Everything sounds better in my head.

But in all seriousness, I actually do have trouble sometimes conveying my thoughts. Not just written either, verbally as well. It may be a mild case of dyslexia, i'm not sure. But it can get bloody frustrating at times.

I know there's been many times where i've typed a reply to someone, and before I hit the send back I re-read it, go back, change things, or delete things.

At the end of the day though I feel we can try our hardest to consciously not post something that will offend someone, but without the verbal inclinations, they're just words on the screen and can easily be misinterpretted or taken out of context.

That in it's self I think is a big part of problems on discussion boards.

Burn wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:There have been times when something sounded better in my head, but once on screen I realized "Oooh. That was bad." Moments like that, I think it's sub-conscious, sometimes our mouths and hands aren't in step with our conscious brain.

Everything sounds better in my head.

But in all seriousness, I actually do have trouble sometimes conveying my thoughts. Not just written either, verbally as well. It may be a mild case of dyslexia, i'm not sure. But it can get bloody frustrating at times.

I know there's been many times where i've typed a reply to someone, and before I hit the send back I re-read it, go back, change things, or delete things.

At the end of the day though I feel we can try our hardest to consciously not post something that will offend someone, but without the verbal inclinations, they're just words on the screen and can easily be misinterpretted or taken out of context.

That in it's self I think is a big part of problems on discussion boards.

Ok now we're getting somewhere...but I think I'll come back tommorow to contribute. It's 1:00 a.m. here. A little late.