The Energon Pub

Autobot032 wrote:

Autobot Smoketreader wrote:Ps: I like what Autobot 032 said about our sense of entitlement. It's the sense of passing the spirit (in design) of our old TFs on that used to be meaningful to me. Entitlement to the next group. I still think Takara sees it that way, a little, in their own way, but only for our group so far, not the next.

No...

I'm really not sure where you're going with this, but you've misunderstood my post.

We believe we're owed something. We believe it should be this way or that way, and all other ways are wrong. (Change the generation, but the end result is still the same.)

We are owed NOTHING. We have no reason to feel a sense of entitlement.

Hasbro and Takara cater to us because we help with sales to a very, very small and unimportant percentage of the overall profit. Plus it's a thank you for the decades of brand loyalty. If it wasn't for us being loyal and us not being profitable, we'd be told to go do something with ourselves.

We are owed nothing, we deserve nothing (but respect, and we get far more than that), and we shouldn't be asking.

That's what I was talking about, I have absolutely no idea where you were going.

Good point.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:
5. Ah HA! Here it is! As always, someone totally misses what the subject is and starts pointing fingers. I'm saying people enter things with certain preconceived, self-conceived expectations in which they go buzzerk when the result is not what was expected. Hasbro is merely doing what they think is good for the franchise, or "experimentation" with new concepts. The problem is that we have the hardest time accepting change, so we push the blame on something else. We do in fact do this to ourselves. There will always be the group(s) that want(s) to ruin the fun and start a rant. You are saying that Hasbro is ruining Transformers through change and discontinuing lines, so you did nothing to contribute to the ruination. What is actually happening is you are saying your opinion is fact, and Hasbro is the problem by doing stuff you don't like. It's when we make Hasbro's job that much harder by telling them how to do their job that we try to kill the characters we love. And actually, I do disagree with some of Hasbro's actions, some which you mentioned. This isn't relevant to this discussion, though. I've learned that criticizing them for every move they make only contributes to the problem, not fix it. We are just making TF less enjoyable for one another by making TF seem bad because of Hasbro, or Mike Bay, or whatever, and telling everone the way it should be.

Yes, okay, all good and well, I agree with what you say and how you see it, but you know now my stance is: convince me, Yeah?

So (I) look at RotF Warpath, the last model that I permitted myself to be upset/crestfallen about before paying stricter attention to the wider range of views here (and admitting he'll get redone again before I die):

Red Scout Unicron Trilogy Jeep.

We are not making our enjoyment of Transformers and our appreciation of what's going on with Transformers difficult for us on our own. I am not attempting to imply that we or any of the creators are not conciously trying to get past all the pitfalls, hidden or visible.We are just not reacting negatively on our own, that's all.
It (reacting any which way) happens when there's a trigger- different triggers for different folks- and overall I think the community 'trend'(dangerous word, chosen for speed, gotta go to work) is to want to get past all of it and just get happy, but even if the problematism is dying off as an issue, WE made it an issue, and WE are now trying to move past it or come to terms with it.Why should we bash ourselves for trying to fix ourselves, I don't think that's fair to anybody who has ever cared for or TRIED to work on all this, or anyone who stayed away but watched and waited for the solutions to start showing!? Your whole post and many of the latest posts (and the best and most Binding subjects amongst us) are about searching for solutions. Please think about that.We've contributed (WE, including ME) to all the problems for sure, but we've (mostly others, me later) are contributing to working it all out for sure. It's unfair to only bash ourselves the same way that it's unfair for the creators or Geewunners or whoever to be bashed without having supporters at the same time.
I'm sorry but convince me otherwise, and furthermore why should I allow someone to blame himself for wrecking TFs single handedly when I believe he didn't?

(note-just because I mention Warpath=Crestfallen and not Tracks&Grappel + over the moon doesn't make me a misery guts- tho it can make me appear to be one in the whole thread-vibe,maybe.)

Autobot 032, I believe I understood what you typed, but I'll think about it and re-read your reply more carefully after work, and thank you for moving to correct me in your reply.

Have a good day,everybody- I gotta bolt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Autobot032 wrote:

Autobot Smoketreader wrote:Ps: I like what Autobot 032 said about our sense of entitlement. It's the sense of passing the spirit (in design) of our old TFs on that used to be meaningful to me. Entitlement to the next group. I still think Takara sees it that way, a little, in their own way, but only for our group so far, not the next.

No...

I'm really not sure where you're going with this, but you've misunderstood my post.

We believe we're owed something. We believe it should be this way or that way, and all other ways are wrong. (Change the generation, but the end result is still the same.)

We are owed NOTHING. We have no reason to feel a sense of entitlement.

Hasbro and Takara cater to us because we help with sales to a very, very small and unimportant percentage of the overall profit. Plus it's a thank you for the decades of brand loyalty. If it wasn't for us being loyal and us not being profitable, we'd be told to go do something with ourselves.

We are owed nothing, we deserve nothing (but respect, and we get far more than that), and we shouldn't be asking.

That's what I was talking about, I have absolutely no idea where you were going.

No problem. I actually understood you completely. Oh well. I'll insert 2x20 cent coins and try again next time. Have a good day, I'm off to work now!

I think Hasbro and Takara owe us a great deal.

I also do not entirely believe that collectors account for an "insignificant" portion of sales. They may not be the majority, but even if only 10% that's enough of a potential loss to scare any company.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:It's US.

"DEEP" REVELATION!
CONGRATULATIONS!

Nico wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:It's US.

"DEEP" REVELATION!
CONGRATULATIONS!

Show is over. Wallow in disappointment until a movie is made to fix your life.

YES! Finally someone has realized it! Like Autobot said, they owe us nothing, and we get a lot more than that. We ruin it for ourselves, not some Big shot director or one single cartoon. We will self destruct eventually, but we can prolong that for a while.

Autobot Smoketreader wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:
5. Ah HA! Here it is! As always, someone totally misses what the subject is and starts pointing fingers. I'm saying people enter things with certain preconceived, self-conceived expectations in which they go buzzerk when the result is not what was expected. Hasbro is merely doing what they think is good for the franchise, or "experimentation" with new concepts. The problem is that we have the hardest time accepting change, so we push the blame on something else. We do in fact do this to ourselves. There will always be the group(s) that want(s) to ruin the fun and start a rant. You are saying that Hasbro is ruining Transformers through change and discontinuing lines, so you did nothing to contribute to the ruination. What is actually happening is you are saying your opinion is fact, and Hasbro is the problem by doing stuff you don't like. It's when we make Hasbro's job that much harder by telling them how to do their job that we try to kill the characters we love. And actually, I do disagree with some of Hasbro's actions, some which you mentioned. This isn't relevant to this discussion, though. I've learned that criticizing them for every move they make only contributes to the problem, not fix it. We are just making TF less enjoyable for one another by making TF seem bad because of Hasbro, or Mike Bay, or whatever, and telling everone the way it should be.

We are not making our enjoyment of Transformers and our appreciation of what's going on with Transformers difficult for us on our own. I am not attempting to imply that we or any of the creators are not conciously trying to get past all the pitfalls, hidden or visible.We are just not reacting negatively on our own, that's all.
It (reacting any which way) happens when there's a trigger- different triggers for different folks- and overall I think the community 'trend'(dangerous word, chosen for speed, gotta go to work) is to want to get past all of it and just get happy, but even if the problematism is dying off as an issue, WE made it an issue, and WE are now trying to move past it or come to terms with it.Why should we bash ourselves for trying to fix ourselves, I don't think that's fair to anybody who has ever cared for or TRIED to work on all this, or anyone who stayed away but watched and waited for the solutions to start showing!? Your whole post and many of the latest posts (and the best and most Binding subjects amongst us) are about searching for solutions. Please think about that.We've contributed (WE, including ME) to all the problems for sure, but we've (mostly others, me later) are contributing to working it all out for sure. It's unfair to only bash ourselves the same way that it's unfair for the creators or Geewunners or whoever to be bashed without having supporters at the same time.
I'm sorry but convince me otherwise, and furthermore why should I allow someone to blame himself for wrecking TFs single handedly when I believe he didn't.

Okay, I should have specifically said we contribute to the problem, not single-handedly cause it. And no, I do not believe that every single fan contributes, nor am I saying I have not contributed to the problem here. I just don't think people realize they keep bashing and bashing thinking it will "solve" "the problem". The "problem" now is usually the movieverse with most. Those who do not like the movies, for example, think that by rallying for the annihilation of the movie universe will solve the biggest problem of TF history (in their opinion). They do not realize the truth about the movies. They have, in fact, caused one of the biggest surges in TF fans since G1. Obviously, the movies are not a problem for TF in that case. The people think that their is the problem. I would say the movies were a problem if there was proof that moviegoers and toy sales dropped. You also cannot tell me that certain toys are a problem unless there is proof that only a handful of the world's people ever purchased one or if their was a safety recall. Saying you don't like a toy is your problem, not the franchise's problem. You would have to prove to me that every single person that ever purchased that toy were dissatisfied with it.
Also, I am not asking us to bash ourselves, but to give more thought into the truthfulness and falseness of what we say about the franchise. For example saying movie Starscream's head design is a trigger to the problem is an untrue statement to me. It's just Starscream's head. It's only when someone says it is the problem itself that we develop a problem.
I would like everyone to ponder on something I tell many people: "Something is not a problem until one suggests it might be a problem, but it can have positive and negative effects equally."

OptiMagnus10 wrote:Well, after getting involved with arguements concerning GeeWunners, why Transformers should go back to the 80's, why the movieverse should go die or be immortal, or what continuities should have reboots and others should perish, I realized something. You see, I had posted a thread titled "Has TF Lost it's Magic?". At the time, I was disappointed with the slightly fewer products available now than the were about six years ago, and thought TF was losing what it used to have and tumbling down hill. Then I got into the "GeeWunners: Myth or Fact?" brawl, and a few others in which people were throwing slag at each other.
It all of a sudden came to me. In the midst of a huge fan base of close-minded people that have to yell at each other for just enjoying some part of TFs, there is only one reason why Transformers could be "Ruined FOREVER". It's not Hasbro or TakaraTomy. It's not the continuity from the mind of Michael Bay. It's not loving G1 too much either...


It's US.

Transformers are now available in all these different franchises and sublines for people of different tastes and ages, but by and large it's a toyline that's meant to be phased out and rebooted once the children they sell to grow out of it. Many fans cannot or will not accept these changes, and it's well within their right to do so. But retiring and replacing franchises will continue so long as it makes TakHas money. The Disgruntled Adult gets mad, but it's likely TakHas didn't have him in mind at all when they were doing the R&D for the toy.

Counterpunch wrote:I think Hasbro and Takara owe us a great deal.

Only if we spawn them a new generation of kids they can sell to.

Counterpunch wrote:I also do not entirely believe that collectors account for an "insignificant" portion of sales. They may not be the majority, but even if only 10% that's enough of a potential loss to scare any company.

TakHas will rightly never give us the exact breakdown on just how much collectors make up their market.

OPTIMAGNUS10 WROTE
Okay, I should have specifically said we contribute to the problem, not single-handedly cause it.
And no, I do not believe that every single fan contributes, nor am I saying I have not contributed to the problem here. I just don't think people realize they keep bashing and bashing thinking it will "solve" "the problem".
The "problem" now is usually the movieverse with most. Those who do not like the movies, for example, think that by rallying for the annihilation of the movie universe will solve the biggest problem of TF history (in their opinion). They do not realize the truth about the movies. They have, in fact, caused one of the biggest surges in TF fans since G1.

>>>>>Yes.I'd say the biggest surge at a guess.But I still feel the movies were gonna be succesful anyway, and continue to be prejudiced toward some fanbase stances or creator stances. My point is that it's the nature of this place that each issue will be periplocal, and sorting it all out can't stop at one solution.We have to keep going,and to be honest the fanbase can't sort it all out alone, the same way that it can't generate it all alone.
Thankfully, there IS a connection starting to develop between the creators and the fans-a real one, not a facade: We'll see the true colors on both sides when the economic crisis is over.
What I tell myself a lot, tho I never see it in person, is that the REAL ambassadors of this forum are the ones talking to the panels at the conventions.I believe thay are calmer and more tolerant (and polite) than (me) in that arena and therefore I'm glad they're the ones doing it all in that arena.Of course I still feel (we) have a place here, and I can see some powerful roles in some of the people here, tho I think the 'problematism' is slowly dying specifically because all sides have matured in it together.
Having said that, we're "[all symbiotes, and what happens to one will affect the other-(we) must see that]", and I'll never pretend that Hasbro hasn't reacted to fans increasingly angered feedback ( any other type,I dunno- increasingly angered,yes), from way before I got involved in all this to a year ago (before me, again) when they started designing Generations and the wfc/unification platform for the immediately foreseeable gens.Obviously, the fanbase has had to clean up parts of our act as well, and accept that some stuff just can't or shouldn't be done.I don't feel that all of this has ever been about winners and losers (forumside, not companyside) but about getting the right message through to the right person.


OPTIMAGNUS10 WROTE
Obviously, the movies are not a problem for TF in that case. The people think that their is the problem. I would say the movies were a problem if there was proof that moviegoers and toy sales dropped.
You also cannot tell me that certain toys are a problem unless there is proof that only a handful of the world's people ever purchased one or if their was a safety recall. Saying you don't like a toy is your problem, not the franchise's problem. You would have to prove to me that every single person that ever purchased that toy were dissatisfied with it.

>>>>>Yup. The RotF Warpath example: I'm not talking about the toy, but about the effort that went into making it:RotF Autobot Warpath = Red Scout Class Armada redo Jeep.Don't you see it? It's old news, now, from a bygone era, from before the 2010 stuff was officially named and set to its' own standard, but don't you see what was happening? What would have happened if people didn't express themselves? Is "yes, sir, thank you sir, may I have some more please, sir" what we/the internet active fans of then should have become? Because, if we/they had, then yes, they would have been ruining TFs for themselves, forever.


OPTIMAGNUS10 WROTE
Also, I am not asking us to bash ourselves, but to give more thought into the truthfulness and falseness of what we say about the franchise. For example saying movie Starscream's head design is a trigger to the problem is an untrue statement to me. It's just Starscream's head. It's only when someone says it is the problem itself that we develop a problem.
I would like everyone to ponder on something I tell many people: "Something is not a problem until one suggests it might be a problem, but it can have positive and negative effects equally."

I reserve the right to bitch about Hasbro UK :p

The thing is that everyone has an opinion. Everyone is allowd to have their opinion. I am happy that I have a plae where I can state my opinion and discuss it with other people, like-minded or otherwise.

I don't feel that my opinions are right for everyone. But, they are right for me. I refuse to argue with people about opinions (especially over toys).

I also will not allow anyone; other people, Hasbro, Michael Bay, to ruin my enjoyment of my hobby.

SJ21 wrote:I also will not allow anyone; other people, Hasbro, Michael Bay, to ruin my enjoyment of my hobby.

Can I get an AMEN!

Rodimus the Prime wrote:

SJ21 wrote:I also will not allow anyone; other people, Hasbro, Michael Bay, to ruin my enjoyment of my hobby.

Can I get an AMEN!

Agree about other people, but I do not agree about Hasbro and Michael Bay. I don't see how they can attempt to ruin our hobby. If you do not like toys from Hasbro, simply do not buy them. If you do not like Michael Bay, simply do not see the movies and don't let it occupy your mind. They are not directly speaking to you and trying to bash you like the community may do.

Autobot Smoketreader wrote:OPTIMAGNUS10 WROTE
Okay, I should have specifically said we contribute to the problem, not single-handedly cause it.
And no, I do not believe that every single fan contributes, nor am I saying I have not contributed to the problem here. I just don't think people realize they keep bashing and bashing thinking it will "solve" "the problem".
The "problem" now is usually the movieverse with most. Those who do not like the movies, for example, think that by rallying for the annihilation of the movie universe will solve the biggest problem of TF history (in their opinion). They do not realize the truth about the movies. They have, in fact, caused one of the biggest surges in TF fans since G1.

>>>>>Yes.I'd say the biggest surge at a guess.But I still feel the movies were gonna be succesful anyway, and continue to be prejudiced toward some fanbase stances or creator stances. My point is that it's the nature of this place that each issue will be periplocal, and sorting it all out can't stop at one solution.We have to keep going,and to be honest the fanbase can't sort it all out alone, the same way that it can't generate it all alone.
Thankfully, there IS a connection starting to develop between the creators and the fans-a real one, not a facade: We'll see the true colors on both sides when the economic crisis is over.
What I tell myself a lot, tho I never see it in person, is that the REAL ambassadors of this forum are the ones talking to the panels at the conventions.I believe thay are calmer and more tolerant (and polite) than (me) in that arena and therefore I'm glad they're the ones doing it all in that arena.Of course I still feel (we) have a place here, and I can see some powerful roles in some of the people here, tho I think the 'problematism' is slowly dying specifically because all sides have matured in it together.
Having said that, we're "[all symbiotes, and what happens to one will affect the other-(we) must see that]", and I'll never pretend that Hasbro hasn't reacted to fans increasingly angered feedback ( any other type,I dunno- increasingly angered,yes), from way before I got involved in all this to a year ago (before me, again) when they started designing Generations and the wfc/unification platform for the immediately foreseeable gens.Obviously, the fanbase has had to clean up parts of our act as well, and accept that some stuff just can't or shouldn't be done.I don't feel that all of this has ever been about winners and losers (forumside, not companyside) but about getting the right message through to the right person.


OPTIMAGNUS10 WROTE
Obviously, the movies are not a problem for TF in that case. The people think that their is the problem. I would say the movies were a problem if there was proof that moviegoers and toy sales dropped.
You also cannot tell me that certain toys are a problem unless there is proof that only a handful of the world's people ever purchased one or if their was a safety recall. Saying you don't like a toy is your problem, not the franchise's problem. You would have to prove to me that every single person that ever purchased that toy were dissatisfied with it.

>>>>>Yup. The RotF Warpath example: I'm not talking about the toy, but about the effort that went into making it:RotF Autobot Warpath = Red Scout Class Armada redo Jeep.Don't you see it? It's old news, now, from a bygone era, from before the 2010 stuff was officially named and set to its' own standard, but don't you see what was happening? What would have happened if people didn't express themselves? Is "yes, sir, thank you sir, may I have some more please, sir" what we/the internet active fans of then should have become? Because, if we/they had, then yes, they would have been ruining TFs for themselves, forever.


OPTIMAGNUS10 WROTE
Also, I am not asking us to bash ourselves, but to give more thought into the truthfulness and falseness of what we say about the franchise. For example saying movie Starscream's head design is a trigger to the problem is an untrue statement to me. It's just Starscream's head. It's only when someone says it is the problem itself that we develop a problem.
I would like everyone to ponder on something I tell many people: "Something is not a problem until one suggests it might be a problem, but it can have positive and negative effects equally."

First of all, I'd like to thank you Smoketreader for adding your opinions to these threads. You seem to put good thought into them. I really agree with you here. I also like that we do need to express oursleves. It's when we turn that into dissing someone's enjoyment of something and turn it into a fight that it goes nowhere. I think we should try to give our opinions to Hasbro, so they can see if our own opinions appeal to them enough put them into plastic. And about the redeco thing, yes, it is a lack of creativity, but to me redecos are fine as long as they take up a very small portion of a line. Some molds to me are good enough to be represented by a different character. I also don't know why you quoted my last paragraph with out adding to it. I'd also like to point out one phrase you said that resonated with me:
WE HAVE TO KEEP GOING

Pretender Skywarp wrote:I reserve the right to bitch about Hasbro UK :p

We won't stop you.

I want to apologize for the length of this post. If you don't want to read it, that's fine. Just don't lash out because of it.

One thing that could ruin TFs, or add to the list at the very least, is abandonment.

HasTakTom seem to go with an idea, use it for a while and then throw it away. Sometimes that's for the best, sometimes it isn't.

Follow me here...

I got the urge to dig out Armada Superbase Optimus, Jetfire, and Overload. Why, I don't know, but I did. (It has since gotten me to start rotating my collection so nothing goes to waste.)

Once I got everything dusted, gathered up the accessories, some Mini-Cons to match up (I.E. Requiem Blaster for Jetfire), I started actually playing with them. I don't mean simply just transforming them back and forth, but actually playing with them.

I was attaching Mini-Cons to activate features on Prime's Superbase, all the lights and sounds, all the spring loaded features and I had a hell of a lot of fun.

Then came the combining. First Super Optimus. Then Jetfire Prime (the original name escapes me at the moment). Then Overload being attached for big ass killer robot super mode. And I kept doing this for the better part of 3 hours. Wasn't intentional, I was just consumed.

And, I fell in love with the auto transforming trailer gimmick all over again. (New fans and collectors, check out Armada Optimus on YouTube. The trailer feature is REALLY neat.)

And I realized just how much fun I was having. I mean genuine, lost in the moment, completely a kid again (with sound effects, no less, kid again) fun.

And it got me thinking...

Armada really got it right. The idea, not so much the execution, but definitely the idea.

Take a look at current offerings. I mean, take a good, good look. What do you see? Here's what I saw:

C.H.U.G. (Classics, Henkei, Universe 2.0, Generations): Collector oriented. Focuses more on accuracy, updating, display value, more adult minded. That's great, that's fine, but it's not always FUN. (I'm okay with that, I still love what FansProject has done, and I'm so glad to see what Hasbro has lined up for us.)

Movieverse (TF1, ROTF, HFTD, RTS): Middle of the road. Gimmicks are present, but not obtrusive to the point that it ruins the figure for you. Has enough complexity to satisfy the adult collector and mature minded fan, yet just enough ease for kids to grasp and brings their favorite big screen characters to life, in their hands. (Due to the complexity, not always fun. In fact, some of the figures are a downright frustration. I personally find ROTF Leader Class Optimus to be THE Optimus Prime toy. Perhaps even the best TF toy in the line's grand history, but that's just me. However, a lot of people found him to be overly complex, too bulky in some spots, too kibbly in others, and while he looks good, not a lot of fun.)

Power Core Combiners: Definitely kid oriented. Very easy to transform (if there are no QC issues present), and the swappable limbs, swappable leaders, and Mini-Cons (who actually do perform a function or two) definitely appeal to kids, but adult collectors and long time fans are pretty much left out in the cold.

Now, I have to tell you that I'm not the biggest fan of Mini-Cons. They're not terrible, by any means, but they're just not what I had hoped for. Cyberkeys for Cybertron, also not a fan, but they weren't a "Gotta catch 'em all!" deal like Mini-Cons were, but they were necessary for full operation of the figure. (Before someone tries to correct me on the purpose of Mini-Cons in Armada, I know, you needed them to activate functions to some degree, but you could use a paper clip to activate the features if you didn't feel like shoving two figures together with breakable force. Cyberkeys? Not that lucky...)

However, their integration with the larger figures was a huge step in the right direction. They not only formed little robots, but some of them could be weapons, they could activate features, and in the case of Prime's Superbase, they could man the guns, there was a launching ramp, a view screen, a spring loaded platform, etc. Cyberkeys couldn't do that. Today's accessories don't do that. Even the Mini-Cons of today, don't do that. (Well, weapon and robot, but nothing beyond that.)

Here's the problem though...some of the Armada designs are downright laughable. Jetfire's chicken head, Prime's goofy supermode head, some of the Mini-Con robot designs, Hot Shot's massive shoulder/rocket launcher ...thing, and Hasbro heard us complain, so they shied away from it in Energon. And even more so in Cybertron. (They kept the Mini-Cons, to some degree, but integration wasn't necessary, at all. There was no Superbase, no ideas like it.)

Then, came Classics. They heard us. They listened to us whine and complain about the Unicron trilogy toys and gimmicks, and they offered us straightforward, gimmick less updates of our favorite G1 characters. (And did a damn fine job of it, too.) Problem is, the fun factor wasn't there for kids. We didn't pay attention to it because we were so excited.

Then came the first movie's toys. Wow. Realistic and beautiful vehicle modes, incredibly detailed and alien looking robot modes, and some of the Automorph features were wow inducing, but once the "wow" factor disappeared, so did the fun.

Then came Universe 2.0 and Animated. Universe, nothing more than a relabel of the Classics line, picking up where the line had left off. Great new updates, but not a lot of fun.

Animated? In the direction of fun. The designs outlandish but still cool, the show was well written and smart, the toys captured the animation models to an insane level of accuracy we hadn't seen before. With things like spring loaded spinning features, moving faces while they talk, and combination for the first time in three years (Safeguard) the fun was starting to be recaptured, but alas...Animated was not long for this world, sad to say. Who knows where it could've gone if given a healthy chance.

Then we come back to the movieverse, Generations, and Power Core Combiners. Some look fantastic, some fill a niche, some are fun oriented but lack quality.

We need to return to Armada's sense of fun. The ability to go crazy with the toys, actually have them interact with each other, but without sacrificing good looks, and not allowing the gimmicks to overwhelm.

I think that if we could take Power Core Combiner ideas, Armada ideas, C.H.U.G. designs and put them all together into one line, I think everyone could find a bit of happiness. We'd all have our collector needs met, but the fun would return. No one would get left out. There would be electronic features that enhance and not detract, there would be intricate designs that wouldn't be impossible to master, and there'd still be enough kid appeal to keep them coming back for more.

If we were having fun with our figures, I think it would help us enjoy the hobby more. I didn't think about board politics, or this person's opinion, or intricate designs, or collector oriented updates, just fun. Lost in the moment, "Oh wow, this brings back memories" fun.

And I had a tremendously good time. And I'll go back for more. I learned that I have the C.H.U.G. stuff when I want something awesome to LOOK at. I have movie stuff if I want that middle of the road feel. I have Armada for good, clean, old fashioned "ZOWIE! POW! KABOOM!" fun that these were always intended to have.

We changed it. We complained too much. I grant you that Armada's designs weren't the best, some of them were downright ridiculous, but we complained too much and we didn't give HasTakTom the time or the credit to make it work.

It comes back to us. We're still the problem. We get an innovative idea, but because it's not perfect, we ask them to get rid of the gimmick that helped make it fun. Then we asked them to make it look fantastic, and they did, but the fun was stripped away.

HasTakTom is trying, and they have been for over two decades. We've failed them, not the other way around.

I don't want them to end C.H.U.G. I love that we're getting Scourge, Kup, etc.
I don't want them to end the movieverse. I love that the toys are a nice balance between ease and collector oriented.
I don't want them to end Power Core Combiners (any more). I love that kids are having a chance to have fun.

I would like to see them find a way to give us the fun of Armada with the looks of C.H.U.G. and the accessibility of the movie figures. (I realize movie figures can be complex, but not all.)

HasTakTom can do it. I know they can. We just have to support them and show them that we're grateful for their efforts, and they might just surprise us.

I apologize for the length of this post, but I needed to explain it so my idea came through loud and clear.

We've allowed the fun to be abandoned. We have to have the fun back, or we'll fall out of love with the hobby that's brought us so much joy for over 25 years. Don't take the fun out people, help bring it back.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

Rodimus the Prime wrote:

SJ21 wrote:I also will not allow anyone; other people, Hasbro, Michael Bay, to ruin my enjoyment of my hobby.

Can I get an AMEN!

Agree about other people, but I do not agree about Hasbro and Michael Bay. I don't see how they can attempt to ruin our hobby.

Then allow me to clarify my young friend! I underlined, italicized and boldfaced Bay's name, because I was referring only to him; I will not allow Michael Bay's work, which strikes me as excessive, vile and disrespectful to ruin or negatively affect my experience of Transformers, nor my view of Transformers.

Optimagnus10 wrote:If you do not like toys from Hasbro, simply do not buy them. If you do not like Michael Bay, simply do not see the movies and don't let it occupy your mind.

Good advice! Now...I think if there is truly an issue here, then it's simply because you are not following your own advice, and are taking what other people say, to you, to one another etc. too personally.

Indeed, if what other people are saying to you, or saying and doing to one another upsets you..why focus on it? Indeed, why start threads to focus on it? This is obviously something that is occupying your mind a great deal if you want to spend this much time and energy discussing it, and can be upset enough to make such a sweepingly broad and simplistic generalization about a complex community.

What works for me is this...If there is a conversation that is upsetting me, then I generally do my best to stay out of it. If someone takes issue with what I say or wants to bash my pov, I do my best to not take it personally, since their issue has nothing to do with me anyway. If for some reason I look around and feel glum, I break out some toys, pose them, touch up their paint, or draw them, whatever makes me feel good.
The key is in learning to not take things personally. Have more trust in yourself for what you love, because needing validation from or feeling threatened by other people's views is a recipe for misery.

Autobot032 wrote:I want to apologize for the length of this post. If you don't want to read it, that's fine. Just don't lash out because of it.

One thing that could ruin TFs, or add to the list at the very least, is abandonment.

HasTakTom seem to go with an idea, use it for a while and then throw it away. Sometimes that's for the best, sometimes it isn't.

Follow me here...

I got the urge to dig out Armada Superbase Optimus, Jetfire, and Overload. Why, I don't know, but I did. (It has since gotten me to start rotating my collection so nothing goes to waste.)

Once I got everything dusted, gathered up the accessories, some Mini-Cons to match up (I.E. Requiem Blaster for Jetfire), I started actually playing with them. I don't mean simply just transforming them back and forth, but actually playing with them.

I was attaching Mini-Cons to activate features on Prime's Superbase, all the lights and sounds, all the spring loaded features and I had a hell of a lot of fun.

Then came the combining. First Super Optimus. Then Jetfire Prime (the original name escapes me at the moment). Then Overload being attached for big ass killer robot super mode. And I kept doing this for the better part of 3 hours. Wasn't intentional, I was just consumed.

And, I fell in love with the auto transforming trailer gimmick all over again. (New fans and collectors, check out Armada Optimus on YouTube. The trailer feature is REALLY neat.)

And I realized just how much fun I was having. I mean genuine, lost in the moment, completely a kid again (with sound effects, no less, kid again) fun.

And it got me thinking...

Armada really got it right. The idea, not so much the execution, but definitely the idea.

Take a look at current offerings. I mean, take a good, good look. What do you see? Here's what I saw:

C.H.U.G. (Classics, Henkei, Universe 2.0, Generations): Collector oriented. Focuses more on accuracy, updating, display value, more adult minded. That's great, that's fine, but it's not always FUN. (I'm okay with that, I still love what FansProject has done, and I'm so glad to see what Hasbro has lined up for us.)

Movieverse (TF1, ROTF, HFTD, RTS): Middle of the road. Gimmicks are present, but not obtrusive to the point that it ruins the figure for you. Has enough complexity to satisfy the adult collector and mature minded fan, yet just enough ease for kids to grasp and brings their favorite big screen characters to life, in their hands. (Due to the complexity, not always fun. In fact, some of the figures are a downright frustration. I personally find ROTF Leader Class Optimus to be THE Optimus Prime toy. Perhaps even the best TF toy in the line's grand history, but that's just me. However, a lot of people found him to be overly complex, too bulky in some spots, too kibbly in others, and while he looks good, not a lot of fun.)

Power Core Combiners: Definitely kid oriented. Very easy to transform (if there are no QC issues present), and the swappable limbs, swappable leaders, and Mini-Cons (who actually do perform a function or two) definitely appeal to kids, but adult collectors and long time fans are pretty much left out in the cold.

Now, I have to tell you that I'm not the biggest fan of Mini-Cons. They're not terrible, by any means, but they're just not what I had hoped for. Cyberkeys for Cybertron, also not a fan, but they weren't a "Gotta catch 'em all!" deal like Mini-Cons were, but they were necessary for full operation of the figure. (Before someone tries to correct me on the purpose of Mini-Cons in Armada, I know, you needed them to activate functions to some degree, but you could use a paper clip to activate the features if you didn't feel like shoving two figures together with breakable force. Cyberkeys? Not that lucky...)

However, their integration with the larger figures was a huge step in the right direction. They not only formed little robots, but some of them could be weapons, they could activate features, and in the case of Prime's Superbase, they could man the guns, there was a launching ramp, a view screen, a spring loaded platform, etc. Cyberkeys couldn't do that. Today's accessories don't do that. Even the Mini-Cons of today, don't do that. (Well, weapon and robot, but nothing beyond that.)

Here's the problem though...some of the Armada designs are downright laughable. Jetfire's chicken head, Prime's goofy supermode head, some of the Mini-Con robot designs, Hot Shot's massive shoulder/rocket launcher ...thing, and Hasbro heard us complain, so they shied away from it in Energon. And even more so in Cybertron. (They kept the Mini-Cons, to some degree, but integration wasn't necessary, at all. There was no Superbase, no ideas like it.)

Then, came Classics. They heard us. They listened to us whine and complain about the Unicron trilogy toys and gimmicks, and they offered us straightforward, gimmick less updates of our favorite G1 characters. (And did a damn fine job of it, too.) Problem is, the fun factor wasn't there for kids. We didn't pay attention to it because we were so excited.

Then came the first movie's toys. Wow. Realistic and beautiful vehicle modes, incredibly detailed and alien looking robot modes, and some of the Automorph features were wow inducing, but once the "wow" factor disappeared, so did the fun.

Then came Universe 2.0 and Animated. Universe, nothing more than a relabel of the Classics line, picking up where the line had left off. Great new updates, but not a lot of fun.

Animated? In the direction of fun. The designs outlandish but still cool, the show was well written and smart, the toys captured the animation models to an insane level of accuracy we hadn't seen before. With things like spring loaded spinning features, moving faces while they talk, and combination for the first time in three years (Safeguard) the fun was starting to be recaptured, but alas...Animated was not long for this world, sad to say. Who knows where it could've gone if given a healthy chance.

Then we come back to the movieverse, Generations, and Power Core Combiners. Some look fantastic, some fill a niche, some are fun oriented but lack quality.

We need to return to Armada's sense of fun. The ability to go crazy with the toys, actually have them interact with each other, but without sacrificing good looks, and not allowing the gimmicks to overwhelm.

I think that if we could take Power Core Combiner ideas, Armada ideas, C.H.U.G. designs and put them all together into one line, I think everyone could find a bit of happiness. We'd all have our collector needs met, but the fun would return. No one would get left out. There would be electronic features that enhance and not detract, there would be intricate designs that wouldn't be impossible to master, and there'd still be enough kid appeal to keep them coming back for more.

If we were having fun with our figures, I think it would help us enjoy the hobby more. I didn't think about board politics, or this person's opinion, or intricate designs, or collector oriented updates, just fun. Lost in the moment, "Oh wow, this brings back memories" fun.

And I had a tremendously good time. And I'll go back for more. I learned that I have the C.H.U.G. stuff when I want something awesome to LOOK at. I have movie stuff if I want that middle of the road feel. I have Armada for good, clean, old fashioned "ZOWIE! POW! KABOOM!" fun that these were always intended to have.

We changed it. We complained too much. I grant you that Armada's designs weren't the best, some of them were downright ridiculous, but we complained too much and we didn't give HasTakTom the time or the credit to make it work.

It comes back to us. We're still the problem. We get an innovative idea, but because it's not perfect, we ask them to get rid of the gimmick that helped make it fun. Then we asked them to make it look fantastic, and they did, but the fun was stripped away.

HasTakTom is trying, and they have been for over two decades. We've failed them, not the other way around.

I don't want them to end C.H.U.G. I love that we're getting Scourge, Kup, etc.
I don't want them to end the movieverse. I love that the toys are a nice balance between ease and collector oriented.
I don't want them to end Power Core Combiners (any more). I love that kids are having a chance to have fun.

I would like to see them find a way to give us the fun of Armada with the looks of C.H.U.G. and the accessibility of the movie figures. (I realize movie figures can be complex, but not all.)

HasTakTom can do it. I know they can. We just have to support them and show them that we're grateful for their efforts, and they might just surprise us.

I apologize for the length of this post, but I needed to explain it so my idea came through loud and clear.

We've allowed the fun to be abandoned. We have to have the fun back, or we'll fall out of love with the hobby that's brought us so much joy for over 25 years. Don't take the fun out people, help bring it back.

Do we really have that much influence on how TakHas plans out their TF franchises? I'm not arguing that CHUG is not designed with us in mind, but the movies and Animated came out despite all the KILL BAY or KILL WYATT outrage. Beast Wars and Beast Machines angered many during its day, and yet they went on to define TF for several years.

I think you're also overlooking that, while we're allowed to have fun, we don't see and treat Transformers the same way we did when we were younger. The definition of what's "fun" changed simply because we got older. Sure, we may find ourselves really playing with our toys once in awhile, but many would be just as happy leaving them MISB forever.

I'm not sure if the ideal would be a single toyline which offers something for everyone. There's practically always something that has to be compromised.

Autobot032 wrote:
One thing that could ruin TFs, or add to the list at the very least, is abandonment.

Armada really got it right. The idea, not so much the execution, but definitely the idea.

C.H.U.G. (Classics, Henkei, Universe 2.0, Generations): Collector oriented. Focuses more on accuracy, updating, display value, more adult minded. That's great, that's fine, but it's not always FUN. (I'm okay with that, I still love what FansProject has done, and I'm so glad to see what Hasbro has lined up for us.)

I would like to see them find a way to give us the fun of Armada with the looks of C.H.U.G. and the accessibility of the movie figures. (I realize movie figures can be complex, but not all.)


We've allowed the fun to be abandoned. We have to have the fun back, or we'll fall out of love with the hobby that's brought us so much joy for over 25 years. Don't take the fun out people, help bring it back.

Autobot 032, I've got a question for you,and actually, maybe for everyone- because I know your answer will be a fair, honest and proper one.

Do you think G2 characters getting redone into C.H.U.G would fit/start making inroads towards the criteria you feel is missing/ needs addressing?

You know, like the old Turbomasters, Throttlebots, Sparkabots and Aquaspeeders, looking as glorious as the latest Kup, Wheeljack, Rumble and Frenzy.

They seem never to really consider G2, nor do we.I'm not a major supporter of the Headmasters,who appear to get all the airtime in G2 recollection talk,but there is a whole lot more than just those in the G2 line, and I do like virtually all the rest.

Furthermore, altho I'm blown away by the new stuff, absolutely happy about Tracks and Wheeljack ans Tomahawk,they'll run out of G1 characters in due time.Shouldn't they continue on with G2? And wouldn't the old G2 Gimmicks appeal to kids who arguably would normally be keyed to shop outside of the C.H.U.G lines?

Would you consider a water cannon toting or rotor shooting toy of the same size and quality of the rest of the RTS line to be equally as playable, and displayable as what you refer to above? Even tho they are not combiners, they are teams, which TF3's release will theoretically popularise with the wreckers and the Dreads...and there are still combiners throughout G1 and G2 for the RTS line to tinker with.

I own a modest collection of G2 stuff, The Illuminator boss, Electro, can be redone right now with the RTS Kup model painted gold and a tiny battery pack,sword and head swap thrown in, and plenty of see-through plastic pieces are being done right now, so Sparkabots shouldn't be too outlandish as a 'new' look.The only thing I'd be afraid of is the Aquaspeeders shooting at and shorting out the the other battery powered toys.

What does everybody think?

This is a little off topic-just putting my two cents in. Also, I very much enjoy Autobot Smoketreader's sig quote.

I'm kind of a new collector, so I'm kinda discovering all this right now. I grew up on BW/BM but for various reasons I didn't get a lot of the figures I wanted at the time. (Which isn't necessarily a bad thing considering they'd be in pretty bad shape now). Anyway, I'm now filling in most of the show figures. Pretty much the main thing that pulled me into this hobby is really wanting to figure out how the transformations of these figures work. But I have to say what brings me back to the figures after I've transformed them a few times is the fun. And there's plenty of it to be had in the beast era lines-TM Primal's hoverboard, Megs' VTOL fans (and roller blades), Depth Charge's disc launcher, etc. I use to think that things like show accuracy and posability were the most important parts of the figure, but now I find there's a balance between fun and...quality, for lack of a better word. I think that's some of what the previous posters had to say.

I was griping on these forums not to long ago about not having a decent BM Silverbolt figure (among other things) and about how great it'd be to have a 10th Anniversary BM line or at least some new molds in the Generations line. But, I sort of have new eyes for the existing figures. Yeah, a lot of them are neony, scrawny, and scaled wrong, but considering an accurate depiction of the show characters is next to impossible, I think (some of) the figures are actually okay. Plus they can be fun. I'm waiting for my AAOP to come in the mail and I can't wait to play with discover the flight sounds as well as figure out the transformation. Same thing with Blackarachnia-the fang movement is one of the best parts of the figure.

Where am I going with this? It's 5:30 in the morning, so even I'm not sure. I think it's important that these things we collect are not just "collector's items" or "sculpts"-- they're TOYS. They're meant to expand your imagination or allow you to rediscover it. Whether we enjoy looking at, playing with, or figuring them out, somebody up at Hasbro/Takara put a bit of happyness into these things for us to enjoy. I doubt most people working on these figures make a lot of money doing it, so we owe them a bit of gratitude, even if we get the occasional dud. And even those might be treasures to someone else.

You guys are really diving into this. It makes me feel "cheap" for not giving an essay style response. But...

I just enjoy the toys (and sometimes the fiction).

There's no larger truth to it for me, no hidden door, no need for explaining or justifying.

I just do. I've never really felt like the "Franchise" was ruined for me. I don't feel like any decision Hasbro or Takara makes is going to change my mind.

Sometimes good things just are.

Don't get me wrong, there are things like the movie-look creeping into other lines that I would prefer not to see. But in those cases I usually just don't buy and move on.

As for bringing back another age of gimmickry (which I never had a problem with)...

2002-2007 was all gimmicks. Armada through Cybertron was one long gimmick parade. I'm perfectly fine balancing that out with more early G1 style figures where the look and transformation is all that is needed to carry a line.

Autobot Smoketreader wrote:
Autobot 032, I've got a question for you,and actually, maybe for everyone- because I know your answer will be a fair, honest and proper one.

Do you think G2 characters getting redone into C.H.U.G would fit/start making inroads towards the criteria you feel is missing/ needs addressing?

You know, like the old Turbomasters, Throttlebots, Sparkabots and Aquaspeeders, looking as glorious as the latest Kup, Wheeljack, Rumble and Frenzy.

They seem never to really consider G2, nor do we.I'm not a major supporter of the Headmasters,who appear to get all the airtime in G2 recollection talk,but there is a whole lot more than just those in the G2 line, and I do like virtually all the rest.

Furthermore, altho I'm blown away by the new stuff, absolutely happy about Tracks and Wheeljack ans Tomahawk,they'll run out of G1 characters in due time.Shouldn't they continue on with G2? And wouldn't the old G2 Gimmicks appeal to kids who arguably would normally be keyed to shop outside of the C.H.U.G lines?

Would you consider a water cannon toting or rotor shooting toy of the same size and quality of the rest of the RTS line to be equally as playable, and displayable as what you refer to above? Even tho they are not combiners, they are teams, which TF3's release will theoretically popularise with the wreckers and the Dreads...and there are still combiners throughout G1 and G2 for the RTS line to tinker with.

I own a modest collection of G2 stuff, The Illuminator boss, Electro, can be redone right now with the RTS Kup model painted gold and a tiny battery pack,sword and head swap thrown in, and plenty of see-through plastic pieces are being done right now, so Sparkabots shouldn't be too outlandish as a 'new' look.The only thing I'd be afraid of is the Aquaspeeders shooting at and shorting out the the other battery powered toys.

What does everybody think?

Depends on what gimmick. A gimmick costs money and takes up space on the toy, which can mean sacrificing articulation, posability or show accuracy.

It will take an awful long time to run out of G1 characters for any CHUG-style toyline. This year we got Darkmount and Drift, two fellas who have only appeared in the comics, and Drift only debuted in the past year. No one here can say for certain that they will not make CHUG toys for comics-only characters again.

Even if they did manage to go through the entire G1 roster, it's a given they will always make new molds for Optimus Prime, Megatron, Starscream and a couple of others for any CHUG-type line. And they'll use the same character for more than one size class, like Hound, G2 Megatron and Bumblebee for Universe.

And whatever exclusives the TFCC offers is fair game for CHUG so long as they repaint it.

Autobot032 wrote:I want to apologize for the length of this post. If you don't want to read it, that's fine. Just don't lash out because of it.

One thing that could ruin TFs, or add to the list at the very least, is abandonment.

HasTakTom seem to go with an idea, use it for a while and then throw it away. Sometimes that's for the best, sometimes it isn't.

Follow me here...

I got the urge to dig out Armada Superbase Optimus, Jetfire, and Overload. Why, I don't know, but I did. (It has since gotten me to start rotating my collection so nothing goes to waste.)

Once I got everything dusted, gathered up the accessories, some Mini-Cons to match up (I.E. Requiem Blaster for Jetfire), I started actually playing with them. I don't mean simply just transforming them back and forth, but actually playing with them.

I was attaching Mini-Cons to activate features on Prime's Superbase, all the lights and sounds, all the spring loaded features and I had a hell of a lot of fun.

Then came the combining. First Super Optimus. Then Jetfire Prime (the original name escapes me at the moment). Then Overload being attached for big ass killer robot super mode. And I kept doing this for the better part of 3 hours. Wasn't intentional, I was just consumed.

And, I fell in love with the auto transforming trailer gimmick all over again. (New fans and collectors, check out Armada Optimus on YouTube. The trailer feature is REALLY neat.)

And I realized just how much fun I was having. I mean genuine, lost in the moment, completely a kid again (with sound effects, no less, kid again) fun.

And it got me thinking...

Armada really got it right. The idea, not so much the execution, but definitely the idea.

Take a look at current offerings. I mean, take a good, good look. What do you see? Here's what I saw:

C.H.U.G. (Classics, Henkei, Universe 2.0, Generations): Collector oriented. Focuses more on accuracy, updating, display value, more adult minded. That's great, that's fine, but it's not always FUN. (I'm okay with that, I still love what FansProject has done, and I'm so glad to see what Hasbro has lined up for us.)

Movieverse (TF1, ROTF, HFTD, RTS): Middle of the road. Gimmicks are present, but not obtrusive to the point that it ruins the figure for you. Has enough complexity to satisfy the adult collector and mature minded fan, yet just enough ease for kids to grasp and brings their favorite big screen characters to life, in their hands. (Due to the complexity, not always fun. In fact, some of the figures are a downright frustration. I personally find ROTF Leader Class Optimus to be THE Optimus Prime toy. Perhaps even the best TF toy in the line's grand history, but that's just me. However, a lot of people found him to be overly complex, too bulky in some spots, too kibbly in others, and while he looks good, not a lot of fun.)

Power Core Combiners: Definitely kid oriented. Very easy to transform (if there are no QC issues present), and the swappable limbs, swappable leaders, and Mini-Cons (who actually do perform a function or two) definitely appeal to kids, but adult collectors and long time fans are pretty much left out in the cold.

Now, I have to tell you that I'm not the biggest fan of Mini-Cons. They're not terrible, by any means, but they're just not what I had hoped for. Cyberkeys for Cybertron, also not a fan, but they weren't a "Gotta catch 'em all!" deal like Mini-Cons were, but they were necessary for full operation of the figure. (Before someone tries to correct me on the purpose of Mini-Cons in Armada, I know, you needed them to activate functions to some degree, but you could use a paper clip to activate the features if you didn't feel like shoving two figures together with breakable force. Cyberkeys? Not that lucky...)

However, their integration with the larger figures was a huge step in the right direction. They not only formed little robots, but some of them could be weapons, they could activate features, and in the case of Prime's Superbase, they could man the guns, there was a launching ramp, a view screen, a spring loaded platform, etc. Cyberkeys couldn't do that. Today's accessories don't do that. Even the Mini-Cons of today, don't do that. (Well, weapon and robot, but nothing beyond that.)

Here's the problem though...some of the Armada designs are downright laughable. Jetfire's chicken head, Prime's goofy supermode head, some of the Mini-Con robot designs, Hot Shot's massive shoulder/rocket launcher ...thing, and Hasbro heard us complain, so they shied away from it in Energon. And even more so in Cybertron. (They kept the Mini-Cons, to some degree, but integration wasn't necessary, at all. There was no Superbase, no ideas like it.)

Then, came Classics. They heard us. They listened to us whine and complain about the Unicron trilogy toys and gimmicks, and they offered us straightforward, gimmick less updates of our favorite G1 characters. (And did a damn fine job of it, too.) Problem is, the fun factor wasn't there for kids. We didn't pay attention to it because we were so excited.

Then came the first movie's toys. Wow. Realistic and beautiful vehicle modes, incredibly detailed and alien looking robot modes, and some of the Automorph features were wow inducing, but once the "wow" factor disappeared, so did the fun.

Then came Universe 2.0 and Animated. Universe, nothing more than a relabel of the Classics line, picking up where the line had left off. Great new updates, but not a lot of fun.

Animated? In the direction of fun. The designs outlandish but still cool, the show was well written and smart, the toys captured the animation models to an insane level of accuracy we hadn't seen before. With things like spring loaded spinning features, moving faces while they talk, and combination for the first time in three years (Safeguard) the fun was starting to be recaptured, but alas...Animated was not long for this world, sad to say. Who knows where it could've gone if given a healthy chance.

Then we come back to the movieverse, Generations, and Power Core Combiners. Some look fantastic, some fill a niche, some are fun oriented but lack quality.

We need to return to Armada's sense of fun. The ability to go crazy with the toys, actually have them interact with each other, but without sacrificing good looks, and not allowing the gimmicks to overwhelm.

I think that if we could take Power Core Combiner ideas, Armada ideas, C.H.U.G. designs and put them all together into one line, I think everyone could find a bit of happiness. We'd all have our collector needs met, but the fun would return. No one would get left out. There would be electronic features that enhance and not detract, there would be intricate designs that wouldn't be impossible to master, and there'd still be enough kid appeal to keep them coming back for more.

If we were having fun with our figures, I think it would help us enjoy the hobby more. I didn't think about board politics, or this person's opinion, or intricate designs, or collector oriented updates, just fun. Lost in the moment, "Oh wow, this brings back memories" fun.

And I had a tremendously good time. And I'll go back for more. I learned that I have the C.H.U.G. stuff when I want something awesome to LOOK at. I have movie stuff if I want that middle of the road feel. I have Armada for good, clean, old fashioned "ZOWIE! POW! KABOOM!" fun that these were always intended to have.

We changed it. We complained too much. I grant you that Armada's designs weren't the best, some of them were downright ridiculous, but we complained too much and we didn't give HasTakTom the time or the credit to make it work.

It comes back to us. We're still the problem. We get an innovative idea, but because it's not perfect, we ask them to get rid of the gimmick that helped make it fun. Then we asked them to make it look fantastic, and they did, but the fun was stripped away.

HasTakTom is trying, and they have been for over two decades. We've failed them, not the other way around.

I don't want them to end C.H.U.G. I love that we're getting Scourge, Kup, etc.
I don't want them to end the movieverse. I love that the toys are a nice balance between ease and collector oriented.
I don't want them to end Power Core Combiners (any more). I love that kids are having a chance to have fun.

I would like to see them find a way to give us the fun of Armada with the looks of C.H.U.G. and the accessibility of the movie figures. (I realize movie figures can be complex, but not all.)

HasTakTom can do it. I know they can. We just have to support them and show them that we're grateful for their efforts, and they might just surprise us.

I apologize for the length of this post, but I needed to explain it so my idea came through loud and clear.

We've allowed the fun to be abandoned. We have to have the fun back, or we'll fall out of love with the hobby that's brought us so much joy for over 25 years. Don't take the fun out people, help bring it back.

I made a thread concerning this a few weeks ago and no one really liked it. I would love to see Powerlinking, Multipurpose MiniCons, and maybe even Cyber Planet Keys again. But I really love the combining we used to have. Of course, that's an opinion. Don't let it affect you. I now realize that bashing HasTak will get me nowhere, because they are really trying to give us good products. The problem is, we tell them what to do, they do it, we complain for whatever reason, and then the cycle repeats. Some praise for their efforts would definitely be great. However, I still think my newer TFs are fun. In fact, I wish to complete my ROTF collection at Christmas this year.

Rodimus the Prime wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

Rodimus the Prime wrote:

SJ21 wrote:I also will not allow anyone; other people, Hasbro, Michael Bay, to ruin my enjoyment of my hobby.

Can I get an AMEN!

Agree about other people, but I do not agree about Hasbro and Michael Bay. I don't see how they can attempt to ruin our hobby.

Then allow me to clarify my young friend! I underlined, italicized and boldfaced Bay's name, because I was referring only to him; I will not allow Michael Bay's work, which strikes me as excessive, vile and disrespectful to ruin or negatively affect my experience of Transformers, nor my view of Transformers.

Optimagnus10 wrote:If you do not like toys from Hasbro, simply do not buy them. If you do not like Michael Bay, simply do not see the movies and don't let it occupy your mind.

Good advice! Now...I think if there is truly an issue here, then it's simply because you are not following your own advice, and are taking what other people say, to you, to one another etc. too personally.

Indeed, if what other people are saying to you, or saying and doing to one another upsets you..why focus on it? Indeed, why start threads to focus on it? This is obviously something that is occupying your mind a great deal if you want to spend this much time and energy discussing it, and can be upset enough to make such a sweepingly broad and simplistic generalization about a complex community.

What works for me is this...If there is a conversation that is upsetting me, then I generally do my best to stay out of it. If someone takes issue with what I say or wants to bash my pov, I do my best to not take it personally, since their issue has nothing to do with me anyway. If for some reason I look around and feel glum, I break out some toys, pose them, touch up their paint, or draw them, whatever makes me feel good.
The key is in learning to not take things personally. Have more trust in yourself for what you love, because needing validation from or feeling threatened by other people's views is a recipe for misery.

First off, I really like the advice you give to me, Rodimus. You always make sense to me. (Coincidentally, I seem to get along with people that use the name "Rodimus" in some way) Unfortunately, it breaks my heart to see that you view Bay's work as "excessive, vile, and disrespectful". I don't know how it is excessive to you. Is it the popularity of it? The long periods of toylines? The sequels? The video games and comic series? Also, to me "vile" is a rather strong word, and it tells me you really do not enjoy the movieverse. I can understand disrespectfulness, (although I hope you don't mean direspectful to TF in general just because it is different) with all of the slagging drug and sexual references that can be left out. But, of course, it seems society (especially American society) has lost its true sense of humor, in favor of this stuff.
Ok I see your second point there. I am now trying not to let things get to me, but what really upsets me is that people feel a need to bash each other, or that people find enjoyment in enraging each other. My point in this whole thread is to get everyone to think before they post something to bash another fan or HasTak, to realize that can do more harm than good. And thank you for the reassurance in the last sentences there, because, I still make sure I put my TFs away in a "safe location" where they are not visible before I have buddies over. I am always paranoid of judgment, and unfortunately I get it about every day. I was never a "jock" in school and never will be, because I don't believe in sports occupying my life, and yes I am criticized just for this and I am pretty sure if more people knew I collect Transformers I would be criticized and made fun of twice as much. I am not dissing sports lovers, but I think there is more to life than that. We all have a hobby, but it doesn't all have to be the same hobby. Just as we need to realize we all don't need to have the same favorite TF continuity.