The Energon Pub

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:No amount of fanwank or nerdtastic from KISS players can excuse the imagery or the disgust. And sometimes cramming that much into a series weighs it down. I've read about what happened after and it's still got some disturbing images and weird **** I don't wanna touch with a ten-foot pole.

I don't know that there's very much disturbing imagery after the disturbing first arc, but I do know it still focuses on a bunch of girls in pretty costumes, and thus it's still something I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole. Dimension-hopping is one thing, but like I said, I could literally write that right now, minus the little girls.

Some of the images of the pretty girls were fairly suggestive, IIRC.

It was a radio drama. How is there imagery in a radio drama?

You're not confusing Kiss Players with Information Administration Teletraan 15 Go! Go!, are you guys?

Sabrblade wrote:It was a radio drama. How is there imagery in a radio drama?

You're not confusing Kiss Players with Information Administration Teletraan 15 Go! Go!, are you guys?

We're talking about the really horrible manga. Which was included in a compilation with what you're talking about. I'm very surprised that you, of all people, aren't even aware of what it is we're all trying to point out as very-not-arguably the worst thing this franchise has ever done.

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:It was a radio drama. How is there imagery in a radio drama?

You're not confusing Kiss Players with Information Administration Teletraan 15 Go! Go!, are you guys?

We're talking about the really horrible manga. Which was included in a compilation with what you're talking about. I'm very surprised that you, of all people, aren't even aware of what it is we're all trying to point out as very-not-arguably the worst thing this franchise has ever done.

Yes, that. Also, this image. Because that's supposed to be Marissa Faireborn, the most ass-kicking female in TF-which includes the any female Transformers. So... wrong.

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:It was a radio drama. How is there imagery in a radio drama?

You're not confusing Kiss Players with Information Administration Teletraan 15 Go! Go!, are you guys?

We're talking about the really horrible manga. Which was included in a compilation with what you're talking about. I'm very surprised that you, of all people, aren't even aware of what it is we're all trying to point out as very-not-arguably the worst thing this franchise has ever done.

Does I need to smack some sense into Sabrblade for you, Master? Um, nevermind.

But I agree with you. Kiss Players = Perv Fans O_o Who came up with that series anyway!?

I completely forgot about KP, probably because I wanted to get those horrible images out of my mind. Another series to add to my list.

And the manga was only three chapters (of the first arc). It was not the primary story.

Sabrblade wrote:And the manga was only three chapters (of the first arc). It was not the primary story.

This is becoming too much of a flame war. Either we get back on topic to which series we personally think are the worst of the franchise or we don't complete this thread at all.

And sabrblade, you may like almost every series, but we are entitled to our own opinion. Don't shove your opinions down our throat and force us to agree with you. That's not going to happen.

Return to topic.

So yeah. #1 is Kiss Players (ugh), #2 is Animated, and #3 is Energon for me.

Gyrotron wrote:But I agree with you. Kiss Players = Perv Fans O_o Who came up with that series anyway!?

The creator of it was trying to do something that would really shock anyone who read it. He was right. The thing is, most Japanese fans hate it not just because of the reasons we have discussed, but also because it paints the (Massively incorrect) picture that that kind of thing is acceptable over there.

Shadowman wrote:

Gyrotron wrote:But I agree with you. Kiss Players = Perv Fans O_o Who came up with that series anyway!?

The creator of it was trying to do something that would really shock anyone who read it. He was right. The thing is, most Japanese fans hate it not just because of the reasons we have discussed, but also because it paints the (Massively incorrect) picture that that kind of thing is acceptable over there.

Creator is Sick. Japanese Fans are right.

Nico wrote:And by blind I mean absolutely refusing to see even a single shred of quality in a specific serie.

The problem with this expectation is that some people are not unwilling to see the good in a series, but are outright incapable of finding any good in a particular series. I have that issue with one, and yet I am always attacked, threatened, shouted down, and on some sites banned outright for expressing that opinion, regardless of how reasonable I may be about it.

To then have people say that it's unacceptable for someone not to see the good in a series, only makes it worse. Saberblade's text steak may contain some valid points, but it also serves to fuel the hostility towards people who want to express a dissenting opinion on some of these shows or movies. It leads to the attitude that you have to justify your opinion, and if your justification isn't deemed to be acceptable, then your opinion is wrong and you can't express it any more.

I, personally, am sick and tired of that attitude, and of being forced out of the fandom because I genuinely can't see any redeeming qualities in a particular series. It's this kind of thing that makes me hate other fans, and results in me going over the top rhetorically when I finally do decide to post on a topic.

Saberblade's opinion, in my experience, is far more prevalent than anyone seems to realize. What people need to do is accept that other people don't agree with you on a particular series, allow them to express their views, and not attack them for disagreeing with you, particularly if you're doing so because you feel their reasons aren't valid. The reality is, whether you agree with them or not, whether they are reasons for liking something or hating something, ALL reasons are valid.

It's not the bitching about the series that has to stop, it's the attacking of those who don't like something that has to stop. Otherwise these fan sites will only end up getting more hate-filled fans like me inhabiting them.

All of that said, my ability to say which is worst is limited, and not just by the rules of this topic. At the moment, I have to say the Unicron Trilogy, and I am hard pressed to choose a single series from that trilogy. Still, just to throw Saberblade a bone, I do admit each of the three series have their good points.

Master Renegade wrote:I, personally, am sick and tired of that attitude, and of being forced out of the fandom because I genuinely can't see any redeeming qualities in a particular series. It's this kind of thing that makes me hate other fans, and results in me going over the top rhetorically when I finally do decide to post on a topic.

Very true. This too is another issue that needs addressing. It is one thing to defend a series that has been condemned. It's another thing to directly attack those who have condemned it.

If anyone took my "ignoramus" paragraph as an offense, let me address that that wasn't intended as an attack but more of an awareness. I will even admit that I too am an ignoramus in regards to several comic series. I am quite ignorant and unaware of the specifics of many TF comics simply because I have not read them. However, I am current trying to rectify that. I have become aware that I'm missing out and am trying to catch up.

But those who refuse to give a series the same fair experience and still persist to blindly bash it, that is not right. But, despite this, like Renegade said, any personal attacks on either party remain unwarranted.

Good points can be pointed out in a non-threatening way. And bad points can be acknowledged just as fairly. In every series, there is good and there is bad. A Yin and a Yang. Some have more bad that good, while others have more good than bad. Some may even have an equal share.

Opinions may differ, even misconceptions may arise, but attacks are unnecessary.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:As for Beast Machines, I guess I'm the odd man out here.I feel BM was one of the best written and produced TF shows ever.Toyline sucked thou.

I agree 100%.

IMHO Beast Machines is the best of all of the various The Transformers TV shows it tries to be a lot more than a series of 30-minute TV commercials (lets just admit it that is really what all of the The Transformers TV shows really are) and Beast Machines's creators actually have something to say.

American series it's Transformers: Robots in Disguise I think some of it is because of 9/11 (which I admit to is not it's fault) and maybe that has colored my opinions on it. I do think that animation wise it was pretty good, but it's story just didn't appeal to me. I thought the jokes weren't funny and the running gags got real old, real fast. I still think overall it was pretty weak show with a lot of wasted potentional.

The worse series of all time is in my honest opinion is Beast Wars II it's animation is poor (I think it's safe to say it was a quickly and cheaply made), dumb, stupid, and all of the characters annoy the hell out of me.

For me, the worst series happens to be BW/BM. Not because they are intrinsically bad, but simply because they are supposed to be the 'future' of G1. And also they involve time traveling, which is something else that I don't really care for.

godzillabot wrote:Blitzwing is obviously a hint to: Terminator, Belloc, and any insane person,

OK, firstly:
1. You have clearly never seen the Terminator, considering one of the main features of the Terminator is that he's EMOTIONLESS. Dur, seriously, just because he has a similar accent (though not really) to Arnold does not make him a reference
2. Not Belloc in particular, just a stereotypical Nazi
3. Wait, what? It's a HINT to an insane person? How'd you figure that? This is sarcasm. The point on the third face is that he's insane.
Anyway, even if they WERE references, how the heck does that make it a bad thing? It's a GOOD thing to have little homages to things that fans like, just look at how awesome the Almanac is thanks to these homages and references.

godzillabot wrote:Too many Bumblebee repaints in the Cybertron episodes

This is so not a legitimate reason to dislike the series. Either then the fact that Transformers LIVE on repaints, the citizens of Cybertron all had different functions, so it made sense for them to have the same alt modes. Besides, go drive a car and see how many of the same model of car you see.
Anyway, they at least had their own faces and personalities. Wasp and Bumblebee had the same alt-mode and they were COMPLETELY different.

godzillabot wrote:Blackarachnia is not sexy

That's not a reason to dislike a series. You're not expected to be being turned on by robots in a cartoon. That's you're own issue.

godzillabot wrote:Optimus is a kid!

Inexperienced =/=kid
Optimus had far, far, FAR more development and personality then like any other Optimus in Transformers history.

godzillabot wrote:Making toys of characters that never were on the show

I can not think of a single example of this at all. Maybe you're talking about Oil Slick? He was in the show, just in Cybertron mode.
And again, EVERY SINGLE SHOW has characters that are toys and not in the show, EXCEPT Animated. That argument is fail.

godzillabot wrote:Swindle is a walking infomercial

And it makes him one of the best characters in the series? He's awesome.
And G1 Swindle was obsessed with selling things too. That's why he's called Swindle.

godzillabot wrote:Dinobots can’t even talk

Grimlock talks all the time.

godzillabot wrote:Transformations sucked, I mean look; a swift criss-cross of color?

Because we really want to watch the same animation sequence every episode? We got detailed transformation scenes every now and then (usually their first time on screen) but not using stock footage OR having parts appear and disappear out of nowhere like in G1 is NOT a better option.

godzillabot wrote:Sari is a wimp

At the start she is a little girl who occasionally is emotional, but still on a VERY frequent basis helps the Autobots. By the end she has cannons for arms and helps the Autobots fight the Decepticons. She's like the opposite of a wimp.

godzillabot wrote:The “other” little kids are stupidly designed

Are you really complaining about background characters?

godzillabot wrote: Guitarformers?

I know! So stupid! What are they gonna do next? Have Mini-cassettes turn into birds and bats?
Animated Laserbeak and Ratbat rock and are actually awesomely original, something that Transformers in general has difficulty with sometimes

That had to be the worst list of reasons to dislike a show ever.

godzillabot wrote:Animated

You'd think that Sumdac would learn that every time something bad happens that his "Friend" has a program in it

Bumblebee's head is the size of the earth

Blitzwing is obviously a hint to: Terminator, Belloc, and any insane person,

Too many Bumblebee repaints in the Cybertron episodes

To many human villains and not enough Con’s

And c’mon: Professor Princess? Meltdown? Nanosec? Slo-Mo? Lame.

Blackarachnia is not sexy

Optimus is a kid!

Making toys of characters that never were on the show

Swindle is a walking infomercial

The stereotypical New York Constructicons

Dinobots can’t even talk

Wreck Gar is acting special needs

Transformations sucked, I mean look; a swift criss-cross of color?

Sari is a wimp

The “other” little kids are stupidly designed

Guitarformers?

Most of this is so silly its not worth addressing...but one thing stands out for me.

Making toys of characters that never were on the show

Where have you been, this has been the case with every show/series since G1.

I know I'm coming into this late but I still want to get my two cents in for the worst series being: Robots in Disguise.

Despite the A/E/C trilogy being spotty any one of those singularly has more enjoyable episodes than RID.

Put together it makes me appreciate Beast Machines even more.

The best is still G1 and Beast Wars and really in fairness the best storytelling is BW.

Starscream GaGa wrote:

godzillabot wrote:Too many Bumblebee repaints in the Cybertron episodes

This is so not a legitimate reason to dislike the series.

Yes. YES IT IS! The fact that you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's not legitimate. You are not the arbiter of what people can use to judge a series. If he doesn't like that, if that ruins the series for him, then who are you to tell him he's wrong?

Starscream GaGa wrote:

godzillabot wrote:Blackarachnia is not sexy

That's not a reason to dislike a series.

Yes. YES IT IS! If it ruins his ability to enjoy the series, then it is, by definition, a reason. It is not up to you to say he's wrong, because it is his opinion.

Starscream GaGa wrote:That had to be the worst list of reasons to dislike a show ever.

You may think they're foolish reasons, no one can expect you to change your mind about that, but they are still reasons. It's nice to see you accepting that they are reasons, even if you disagree with them.

Master Renegade wrote:You may think they're foolish reasons, no one can expect you to change your mind about that, but they are still reasons. It's nice to see you accepting that they are reasons, even if you disagree with them.

No, they're pretty awful reasons, and I do not accept them. Otherwise every Transformers series is just awful.

Shadowman wrote:

Master Renegade wrote:You may think they're foolish reasons, no one can expect you to change your mind about that, but they are still reasons. It's nice to see you accepting that they are reasons, even if you disagree with them.

No, they're pretty awful reasons, and I do not accept them. Otherwise every Transformers series is just awful.

Which attitude makes you the kind of arrogant SOB that I absolutely detest. You are not the arbiter of what makes an acceptable reason to dislike a series.

Master Renegade wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Master Renegade wrote:You may think they're foolish reasons, no one can expect you to change your mind about that, but they are still reasons. It's nice to see you accepting that they are reasons, even if you disagree with them.

No, they're pretty awful reasons, and I do not accept them. Otherwise every Transformers series is just awful.

Which attitude makes you the kind of arrogant SOB that I absolutely detest. You are not the arbiter of what makes an acceptable reason to dislike a series.

Yes I am, actually. Government certified. Right on my business card, too "Shadowman, Arrogant SOB and Arbiter of what makes an acceptable reason to dislike a series."

In all truth, they are awful reasons. For instance as me, Starscream gaga and Sto_vo_kor all pointed out, he criticized Animated for having toys of characters who weren't in the show. This is a bad reason because 1. Every other TF series does it and 2. Animated actually doesn't. Even WfC somehow managed it and there were only five toys based on that game. (Cliffjumper got a toy, a repaint of Bumblebee, despite never appearing in the game)

His criticism of Blackarachnia is also a silly reason. Personal taste in sex appeal does not a bad show make. I didn't think Blackarachnia was hot in any series; that doesn't mean Beast Wars was bad. Beast Machines...eh...that series had it's own problems.

Shadowman wrote:Yes I am, actually. Government certified. Right on my business card, too "Shadowman, Arrogant SOB and Arbiter of what makes an acceptable reason to dislike a series."

Your attempt at humor is feeble. It only makes me hate you more.

Shadowman wrote:In all truth, they are awful reasons.

So, you admit they're reasons? I rest my case.

On a side note, if someone has a fact wrong, then correct them, and point them to a source to back it up if they need one, but if they're merely expressing an opinion based on personal taste, then they cannot be wrong about it. If something interferes with their ability to enjoy a show, then it not up to you to say they are wrong.

Master Renegade wrote:On a side note, if someone has a fact wrong, then correct them, and point them to a source to back it up if they need one, but if they're merely expressing an opinion based on personal taste, then they cannot be wrong about it. If something interferes with their ability to enjoy a show, then it not up to you to say they are wrong.

Except they ARE wrong.

Going through all Animated toys there is ONE toy not based on any actual character: The Activators Dirge toy. With that being said, Dirge was placed in Animated canon via the Almanacs.

Starscream GaGa wrote:Except they ARE wrong.

Going through all Animated toys there is ONE toy not based on any actual character: The Activators Dirge toy. With that being said, Dirge was placed in Animated canon via the Almanacs.

Learn to read, read what you quoted, then get back to me and explain why your reply isn't devoid of intelligence.

Master Renegade wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Yes I am, actually. Government certified. Right on my business card, too "Shadowman, Arrogant SOB and Arbiter of what makes an acceptable reason to dislike a series."

Your attempt at humor is feeble. It only makes me hate you more.

Good! The last guy who hated me because of a minor dispute I had with someone else left. I kind of miss him.

Master Renegade wrote:

Shadowman wrote:In all truth, they are awful reasons.

So, you admit they're reasons? I rest my case.

Are you the kind of guy who ignores certain words and then pretends it really proves their point? If you are, I am going to love having you around.

Master Renegade wrote:On a side note, if someone has a fact wrong, then correct them, and point them to a source to back it up if they need one, but if they're merely expressing an opinion based on personal taste, then they cannot be wrong about it. If something interferes with their ability to enjoy a show, then it not up to you to say they are wrong.

No, I can still call them awful reasons. It's easy. Like, for example, if you do not find a character who appears in only a few episodes of a kid's show attractive, that's a terrible reason for hating a series. If you hate a series because a character never talks when, in fact, a character talks repeatedly, that's a terrible reason. If you hate a series because of something the entire franchise is guilty of (Especially if the series in question isn't guilty of it) that's a terrible reason.

You see what I'm getting at? Having an opinion is one thing, but having an opinion based on terrible logic is just silly.