The Energon Pub

It's Bayformers. The designers just put together a random pile of pointy metal sheets, add a bigger pile of moving mechanics, pick a darts table with names ranging from G1 to Cybertron, shoot a dart, and where it hits the table, that adds the name of the new "transformer".

Chaoslock wrote:It's Bayformers. The designers just put together a random pile of pointy metal sheets, add a bigger pile of moving mechanics, pick a darts table with names ranging from G1 to Cybertron, shoot a dart, and where it hits the table, that adds the name of the new "transformer".

Better than just doing that with cardboard boxes.

Why can't bay just make his bayformers like g1?

*sighs* Because. This. Isn't. G1.

I know it's been said a million times in this thread already, and it'll be said a million more, but it has to be reiterated again and again and again.

This is not G1. It was never intended to be. They may share some of the same characteristics, they might share the same names, but this is a brand new universe. A reboot. Not G1. Not the past. This is the present, the here and now, a brand new universe, a brand new vision.

No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

No amount of hoping and wishing will change it or make it something it's not.

If you don't like the Bayverse, that's your right, but I'm sorry that it wasn't catered to you. I really am. It would've been nice if it could've worked for everyone, but you can't please everyone. No matter how hard you try.

Hasbro, Paramount, Bay, Kruger, Spielberg...all have jobs I do not envy. Not even for a second, not even a little bit.

They have so many people to answer to, but can't answer them all.

Hopefully, one day, there will be a movie that caters to the G1 crowd, so no one's left out. It would be great, no joke. However, right now? It's just not possible. It's not going to happen.

So all you can do is either enjoy the ride and come along, or skip it all together and just wait. Other than that, you really have no options.

And I for one am glad it's not G1. Forget the designs, the boxy look is silly but forgivable... but the stories? Already been done and played out. This is brand new, this is a new direction, this is for a wide audience and to open new doors.

This cannot be G1. This is not G1. This should not be made like G1. It should not be forced to fit a certain way when it clearly cannot.

If people can't understand that, then perhaps the problem lies with them, not the movies.

Autobot032 wrote:

Why can't bay just make his bayformers like g1?

*sighs* Because. This. Isn't. G1.

I know it's been said a million times in this thread already, and it'll be said a million more, but it has to be reiterated again and again and again.

This is not G1. It was never intended to be. They may share some of the same characteristics, they might share the same names, but this is a brand new universe. A reboot. Not G1. Not the past. This is the present, the here and now, a brand new universe, a brand new vision.

No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

No amount of hoping and wishing will change it or make it something it's not.

If you don't like the Bayverse, that's your right, but I'm sorry that it wasn't catered to you. I really am. It would've been nice if it could've worked for everyone, but you can't please everyone. No matter how hard you try.

Hasbro, Paramount, Bay, Kruger, Spielberg...all have jobs I do not envy. Not even for a second, not even a little bit.

They have so many people to answer to, but can't answer them all.

Hopefully, one day, there will be a movie that caters to the G1 crowd, so no one's left out. It would be great, no joke. However, right now? It's just not possible. It's not going to happen.

So all you can do is either enjoy the ride and come along, or skip it all together and just wait. Other than that, you really have no options.

And I for one am glad it's not G1. Forget the designs, the boxy look is silly but forgivable... but the stories? Already been done and played out. This is brand new, this is a new direction, this is for a wide audience and to open new doors.

This cannot be G1. This is not G1. This should not be made like G1. It should not be forced to fit a certain way when it clearly cannot.

If people can't understand that, then perhaps the problem lies with them, not the movies.

Part of the problem is that you reply to these arguments with logic. The 'haters' are generally arguing from an emotional point of view. Responding to such arguments invalidates the emotion inherent to their opinion, making for even stronger emotional repsonses. Just think about how every argument starts... First we're civil, then we slowly polarize.

I think they have many homages to g1,but like other people said,this the movie,not G1.
And i love the the way it is.

RodimalToyota wrote:I wrote a script for a reboot movie I was going to try to give to someone at Hasbro during botcon, but can't make it, I truly believe I hold the key to being the only person who knows how to successfully incorporate the g1 modes, while also incorporating new complex modes.

I actually took a lot of time researching tf lore to write this, unfortunately good writing rarely ever gets to the big screen. My reboot would change the face of the TF world forever.
Can't say more because I obviously want to try and pitch it to Hasbro, Ss or even Lorenzo.

Kinda egotistical,huh?

RodimalToyota wrote:Like George Lucas though,he is extending his hands too much in other parts of production, and it's makes the movie suffer.
Wether you agree or not, after seeing transformers, Revenge of the Fallen, and G.I.Joe Rise Of Cobra, Hasbro seriously needs to think about going a completely different direction. At this point in time, everything they have put on screen has been IMO sub-par.

This and many other thing you wrote are your opinion,not an fact.

RodimalToyota wrote: People Like the 2007 Transformers, because they have too. If you had more releases from different companies and different choices, you wouldn't like it so much.

I like the 2007 movie because i choose to.Transformers is a franchise with than 25 years,there many aspects people may choose to like.

Why can't bay just make his bayformers like g1?

Honestly, this question is asked like a broken record player. It annoys the slag out of me.

Why didn't Bay go all-out G1? I'll tell you:

THIS IS NOT G1. THIS IS AN ALL-NEW 21st CENTURY MOVIE CONTINUITY. THIS IS NOT PART OF A 1984 CARTOON SERIES..

If that answer makes absolutely no sense, ask yourself this:

Why can't Bay make his Transformers unique? Why does Transformers have to have so many aesthetic, character, and story limits?

RhA wrote:Part of the problem is that you reply to these arguments with logic. The 'haters' are generally arguing from an emotional point of view. Responding to such arguments invalidates the emotion inherent to their opinion, making for even stronger emotional repsonses. Just think about how every argument starts... First we're civil, then we slowly polarize.

I have to ask...why shouldn't I be able to address this from a logical standpoint?

Why must they respond with an emotional point of view?

And posing a question or making a statement shouldn't invalidate their emotional responses.

If they have a problem, that's on them. Not me.

I can approach an argument from both an emotional standpoint and logical, if need be. I prefer to go with logical because emotional rarely does anyone good in such a situation.

Should we even be getting that upset over such a thing? Should our emotions be affected by TransFormers? Or Star Trek? Or Star Wars?

To be honest, I'm not sure they should. Quite frankly, it scares me that they have the potential to do so.

If a movie or show or song makes me cry, that's great. That means it has some emotional impact. Should it be so impactful that it changes my life, as some have said of their own lives?

Where do you find the line between reality and fantasy? What do you do when that line blurs and you aren't willing to pull yourself back from the brink?

A lot of the arguments I see for and against the films are definitely coming from a fantastical, emotional response. I rarely see one that has logic to it. Since they're few and far between, I take notice of them immediately.

Don't misunderstand me, I think it's great that people enjoy this stuff, I do, but too much is too much.

When one goes to the trouble of saying how much they hate this person, wish that person would go 4*ck themselves, hope they die, send in death threats, and so on and so forth....they've lost touch with reality and sensibility.

Do they still have G1 on DVD? Yes.
Do they still have G1 as a movie? Yes.
Do they still have G1 on the air? Yes.
Do they still have G1 toys? Yes.

How is the Bayverse really affecting them other than it doesn't cater to them? And by it not catering to them, is it the end of the world for them?

Seriously. These are questions that need to be asked, because quite frankly, I'm forming hatred for fandoms as a whole and it bothers me. I shouldn't have to. I end up having to because they incessantly feel a need to ruin it for everyone else so they can be happy.

Do you have any idea how selfish that is?
The sense of entitlement is DISGUSTING.

People seem to forget that this all started as a way to market to kids.

KIDS.

Kids will always be the main focus. Always. Bay did deliver something we wanted....an adult TF movie. None of the content in these films is kid friendly. While it might not be high brow, it's still aimed at us.

We ask, we receive, we whine.

Why can't Bay just make his Bayformers like G1? Why does he have to? And why should we be subjected to G1?

And for all those people who have a hard on for hate for Revenge Of The Fallen? You got your G1 movie. Yes, yes you did.

Puddle deep plot? Check.
Old skool crazy master plan? Check.
Incoherent and silly in some scenes? Check.
Prime making the ultimate sacrifice and coming back to save the day as everyone's big damn hero? Check.

If you couldn't see G1 in that movie, then you really didn't pay much attention. Your loss. It was a fun romp, and far more entertaining than that convoluted mess of a first movie.

What do you people want? Seriously? (No. I don't want an answer. I want you to ask yourselves that. Please, please, please don't answer.)

Just my two cents, but Ironhide looks better as a monster truck than some red van.

Autobot032 wrote:

RhA wrote:Part of the problem is that you reply to these arguments with logic. The 'haters' are generally arguing from an emotional point of view. Responding to such arguments invalidates the emotion inherent to their opinion, making for even stronger emotional repsonses. Just think about how every argument starts... First we're civil, then we slowly polarize.

I have to ask...why shouldn't I be able to address this from a logical standpoint?

Why must they respond with an emotional point of view?

And posing a question or making a statement shouldn't invalidate their emotional responses.

If they have a problem, that's on them. Not me.

I can approach an argument from both an emotional standpoint and logical, if need be. I prefer to go with logical because emotional rarely does anyone good in such a situation.

Should we even be getting that upset over such a thing? Should our emotions be affected by TransFormers? Or Star Trek? Or Star Wars?

To be honest, I'm not sure they should. Quite frankly, it scares me that they have the potential to do so.

If a movie or show or song makes me cry, that's great. That means it has some emotional impact. Should it be so impactful that it changes my life, as some have said of their own lives?

Where do you find the line between reality and fantasy? What do you do when that line blurs and you aren't willing to pull yourself back from the brink?

A lot of the arguments I see for and against the films are definitely coming from a fantastical, emotional response. I rarely see one that has logic to it. Since they're few and far between, I take notice of them immediately.

Don't misunderstand me, I think it's great that people enjoy this stuff, I do, but too much is too much.

When one goes to the trouble of saying how much they hate this person, wish that person would go 4*ck themselves, hope they die, send in death threats, and so on and so forth....they've lost touch with reality and sensibility.

Do they still have G1 on DVD? Yes.
Do they still have G1 as a movie? Yes.
Do they still have G1 on the air? Yes.
Do they still have G1 toys? Yes.

How is the Bayverse really affecting them other than it doesn't cater to them? And by it not catering to them, is it the end of the world for them?

Seriously. These are questions that need to be asked, because quite frankly, I'm forming hatred for fandoms as a whole and it bothers me. I shouldn't have to. I end up having to because they incessantly feel a need to ruin it for everyone else so they can be happy.

Do you have any idea how selfish that is?
The sense of entitlement is DISGUSTING.

People seem to forget that this all started as a way to market to kids.

KIDS.

Kids will always be the main focus. Always. Bay did deliver something we wanted....an adult TF movie. None of the content in these films is kid friendly. While it might not be high brow, it's still aimed at us.

We ask, we receive, we whine.

Why can't Bay just make his Bayformers like G1? Why does he have to? And why should we be subjected to G1?

And for all those people who have a hard on for hate for Revenge Of The Fallen? You got your G1 movie. Yes, yes you did.

Puddle deep plot? Check.
Old skool crazy master plan? Check.
Incoherent and silly in some scenes? Check.
Prime making the ultimate sacrifice and coming back to save the day as everyone's big damn hero? Check.

If you couldn't see G1 in that movie, then you really didn't pay much attention. Your loss. It was a fun romp, and far more entertaining than that convoluted mess of a first movie.

What do you people want? Seriously? (No. I don't want an answer. I want you to ask yourselves that. Please, please, please don't answer.)

Choo-choo quotetrain!

I'm not saying you shouldn't approach this with logic, I'm just saying that most of these arguments back and forth won't help each other at all. You're very much right in what you're saying, I feel the same way. The Bayverse is not a threat to G1, it borrows heavily from it. We all know this.

What the 'haters' point mostly is, is not so much that they tend to hate it for not being G1. I think it's just as important for us to understand where they are coming from as it is important for them to understand where we are coming from.

For most of us, this hobby started when we where kids. Generally these memories are looked upon with fondness and if the Transformers are a part of that, like all of those things, we see it as a setpoint for the rest of our lives. It's a mental safety zone. Though I might poke fun at people for their fanboyisms, I too come here to talk about the things I love. I come here to talk about stuff I can't anywhere else. This place validates my affections for robot toys.

When the movie was announced, a lot of people (including myself) where hoping to see the glorious return of (a part) our early days. This however was not the case, it was different. Most of us just went with it and liked it for what it was, some people did not and some of them even went on being very verbal about it.
I think they're mostly verbal about it because they really feel invalidated in their affections for the memory and forget it's a brand more then anything else. It's not logical in that sense, no. But people have aright to complain and personally I like being kept sharp through it. I like the discussions, reading them and joining in. I also realize that this is the internet and I will not change people's lives with my opinion. Places like this one on the internet are not here for learning and personal growth, they're here to validate us emotionally in our (childhood)affections and, by extension, blabber about robots.

And luckily, there are also people like you here, who keep me sharp through logic. So for me, the knife cut both ways. I'll have my cake and eat it.

♪All you need is love and understanding, ring the bell and let the people know♪

I think this entire situation boils down to a simple matter if ideology in the minds of G1 fans (not GEEWUNERS, though they do factor into this):

They enjoy G1
They hear "Transformers live action film in production!"
They automatically assume it's going to be a movie version of G1
They don't stop to think it might be it's own continuity

When the new character designs were revealed their little bubble got burst that this is indeed not a movie version of G1 but it's own continuity, and since 2007 they haven't been able to accept it. Really now, I understand that G1 is your favorite iteration of the franchise and I respect that. Hell I love G1 too, it's what defined by childhood in terms of entertainment. However it's time to let go, because while G1 will and always will be there to enjoy, the movieverse is something different.

Right now the movieverse has proven to the just about the single most profitable Transformers series to come out of North America. Whether you liked the 2007 film and Revenge of the Fallen or not they are both incredibley successful and popular (yes RotF is well loved, those who hated it just scream loudest), and due to this the film series will continue as is most likely even after Bay steps down as director.

Iamwarhorse wrote:Just my two cents, but Ironhide looks better as a monster truck than some red van.

Yeah I agree. I think it fits his personality better, which I think is what they were going for with the GMC Topkick. Seriously, the badass tough guy was a Nissan minivan. So much irony.

OptiMagnus wrote:

Iamwarhorse wrote:Just my two cents, but Ironhide looks better as a monster truck than some red van.

Yeah I agree. I think it fits his personality better, which I think is what they were going for with the GMC Topkick. Seriously, the badass tough guy was a Nissan minivan. So much irony.

I dunno, those soccer moms can be pretty dangerous.

Capt.Failure wrote:

OptiMagnus wrote:

Iamwarhorse wrote:Just my two cents, but Ironhide looks better as a monster truck than some red van.

Yeah I agree. I think it fits his personality better, which I think is what they were going for with the GMC Topkick. Seriously, the badass tough guy was a Nissan minivan. So much irony.

I dunno, those soccer moms can be pretty dangerous.

And hot.

Thunderface wrote:i do prefer g1, but they would look rediculous in a real world setting. anyway man IDW are keeping the g1 look alive.

Quoted for truth.

I'm pretty much an equal-opportunity Transfan. I love G1, Beast Wars, RiD, and everything, including Prime, and the movies. Why would I hate on anything that gives more life into a franchise that I love? I know that there are aspects of every TF series that people aren't going to like, because it is impossible to please everyone, and despite how good G1 was, I think some people put it up on a bit of a pedestal and ignore some things that anyone but a child would find silly and annoying.

How about the plethora of animation errors?

How about the constant introduction and dismissal of characters, without explanation, just TO SELL TOYS?

How about the fact that several episodes contained just about the dumbest plot lines ever?
- i.e. the Sub-Atlanticans help Megatron take over New York? WTF?
- i.e. the Crystal Ruby mines of Burma? Huh?
- i.e. a little monkey robot built Unicron? Riiiiiiiiight.

Now again, I have to say that I really do like G1, but people need to stop pretending that it was perfect and that everything else that came after "ruined Transformers FOREVER!"

Now, excuse me while I go watch some of my G1 DVDs, right after I watch the trailer for DOTM for the 1,000th time!

Just because a movie looks the way you want it, doesn't mean it will be good!
If it's bad you're just slandering what you wanted.

PLUS: If a car did transform into a robot in real life, it would look very complex.

HoundimusPrime wrote:Just because a movie looks the way you want it, doesn't mean it will be good!
If it's bad you're just slandering what you wanted.

PLUS: If a car did transform into a robot in real life, it would look very complex.

This is a factor of the whole Transformers series alot of people take for granted. Look at Optimus for example. His semi form has to turn into a humanoid form without magically generating or losing mass (Bay was insistant on avoiding "mass shifting"). Alot of the changes in his design took this into account, along with many of the other robot designs. This is also why Megatron turns into a jet/tank/mad max truck rather than a gun he can't shoot himself.

Mind you I thought Meg's gun alt form was the lamest in the series. Yeah I went there.

Lots of you here like the Bayverse. I can understand that, it's about personal taste and really, whether you want to invoke logic or emotion in the justification it's pretty hard to argue personal taste around - you either like something, or you don't.

To me it comes down to two things - aesthetics and was the film any good?

I plunked my cash down and watched both films at the theatre and came away both times thinking I HADN'T had full value out of the couple hours they both took up. It had nothing to do with whether the films were slavish reproductions of the creaky, clunky Cartoon-world of my youth, it was how did I feel watching the specticle in front of me right then and there - and both came up very short.

I didn't like so much about them that I wont waste anyone's time listing all the factors - this and every other TF on the Net are full of those reasons argued back and forth since 07, but a couple of things are important to restate. I'm NOT a hater just because I don't like M.Bay's version of the TF story, I'm a "hater" (awful term) because I think so much more could have been done with the property than what we got....from him. It was very much his personal, ego-driven show, and apart from the Rock I haven't liked ANYTHING the guy has done before TF's and I'm fairly safe in betting I wont like whatever he turns his lazy, childish and overblown sense of self-importance to next.

The other thing to state is a purely selfish reason - but a lot on here will feel the same - that when a Movie rolls around it tends to hog HasTak resources for the 2 years around that Movie - so if you are not a fan things get thin on the ground.

Now I know someone's going to tell me "but, but there's other things going on too....." but Generations/Classics (ie: the Toys that I selfishly care about) will be lucky to get any attention over the next few years. That's a big chunk of my collecting life spent if not exactly idle, then with a lot less to chase.

Aesthtics - see how I'm back to the personal taste thing? I hate the look of the Bayverse. I just do. Whatever it is that doesn't work for me produces a very negative response to the character designs - once that happens even a good film would struggle to win me round. I compare what Marvel Studios have been able to do with well loved and established characters like Thor and Iron Man and think "if only....." every time I see a Bayformer. Mind you, those were good films, where the plot wasn't "puddle-deep"...and ....well they were just so different in most respects it almost hurts.

That's just MY opinion, and it shouldn't shock or offend anyone else.

Motorthing wrote:I didn't like so much about them that I wont waste anyone's time listing all the factors - this and every other TF on the Net are full of those reasons argued back and forth since 07, but a couple of things are important to restate. I'm NOT a hater just because I don't like M.Bay's version of the TF story, I'm a "hater" (awful term) because I think so much more could have been done with the property than what we got....from him. It was very much his personal, ego-driven show, and apart from the Rock I haven't liked ANYTHING the guy has done before TF's and I'm fairly safe in betting I wont like whatever he turns his lazy, childish and overblown sense of self-importance to next.

I'm gonna call you on this because I find your reasoning ridiculous. If you want an egotistical, lazy, self important director I can point you toward Christopher Nolan and many of his pretentious love letters to himself such as The Dark Knight or Inception. If Bay was lazy he would have done the G1 carbon copy the OP was clamoring for and called it quits there. Instead he worked out ways to bring the characters to life without resorting to many of the things that are major flaws of G1. If he was so self important he'd have never came back to do a sequel because when tapped to direct at first he hated the concept of Transformers. When Hasbro showed him what he could do with the series he actually became inspired to make the film happen and stay on for future films. Hell, even after he was evicerated by critics unfairly for RotF he stayed on. Most directors would have jumped ship right there, but instead he's decided to correct the "mistakes" he supposedly made with a film to blow the other two out of the water.

But of course, he's lazy and only doing it for himself, right?

That's something I get sick in these threads. Somehow directors who push their moral agenda or slather on layer after layer of pretention and social commentary are ok, but the directors who make films because they enjoy it are the self important, egotistical hacks?

Motorthing wrote:I compare what Marvel Studios have been able to do with well loved and established characters like Thor and Iron Man and think "if only....." every time I see a Bayformer. Mind you, those were good films, where the plot wasn't "puddle-deep"...and ....well they were just so different in most respects it almost hurts.

That's just MY opinion, and it shouldn't shock or offend anyone else.

So because the movies weren't good for you, they weren't good at all? You can't objectify good because what qualifies as good to you doesn't for others. I thought Iron Man was a good movie with a good story and plot. I thought Transformers and Revenge of the Fallen were good movies with good stories and plot. I thought Iron Man 2 was crap, and I took one look at the Thor trailer and responded with a resounding, "Meh, don't care." But I'm not gonna say they aren't good in an objective sense because that's not for me to decide.

You can't make a thinly veiled statement about the movieverse's definitive badness then slap on an ending sentence stating, "It's just my opinion." Your entire arguement fell on it's face in that moment.

Ho-hum. You seemed to pick and chosse to suit YOUR opinion too I notice. M. Bay is on record for telling "G1 purists" back in 07 that it was "My movie so get over it!" I think that says pretty much everything that needs to be said here.

Bay may be doinfg another Movie for the fine reasons YOU might think, or he may be finshing his Ego-trip off with another giant guaranteed payday. Now that could be an example of me being flip and potentially insulting. It's how you choose to take it and how personally you seem to be invested in it.

And ultimately every post on here is just some guy stating "my opinion" - including you. So did all of that really need to be said?

You like the movies, I didn't like the Movies - or M. Bay's general output. I'm sure the world will survive that.

Motorthing wrote:Ho-hum. You seemed to pick and chosse to suit YOUR opinion too I notice. M. Bay is on record for telling "G1 purists" back in 07 that it was "My movie so get over it!" I think that says pretty much everything that needs to be said here.

Bay may be doinfg another Movie for the fine reasons YOU might think, or he may be finshing his Ego-trip off with another giant guaranteed payday. Now that could be an example of me being flip and potentially insulting. It's how you choose to take it and how personally you seem to be invested in it.

And ultimately every post on here is just some guy stating "my opinion" - including you. So did all of that really need to be said?

You like the movies, I didn't like the Movies - or M. Bay's general output. I'm sure the world will survive that.

Nice sarcasm, bro. It is his movie because ultimately fans are not directing it. They put no work into it, they put no thought into it, yet they claim it somehow belongs to them. Here's a protip: when you need someone else to make something for you then it's not up to you what the finished product is like. Whether you liked it or not doesn't change the fact that you did nothing to make it happen, you're merely a consumer. Saying Bay's films are an ego trip based on that is at best shakey logic.

Does it need to be said? Yes it does. To quote an expert on the subject:

"Fans are clingy complaining dipsh*ts who will never ever be grateful for any concession you make. The moment you shut out their shrill, tremulous voices the happier you will be for it." -Ben Croshaw

Bay followed this advice and currently Transformers is experiencing a surge in popularity it hasn't seen since Beast Wars. I do believe your corelation between not listening to "true fans" and "egotism" is starting to fall apart.

Capt.Failure wrote:

Motorthing wrote:Ho-hum. You seemed to pick and chosse to suit YOUR opinion too I notice. M. Bay is on record for telling "G1 purists" back in 07 that it was "My movie so get over it!" I think that says pretty much everything that needs to be said here.

Bay may be doinfg another Movie for the fine reasons YOU might think, or he may be finshing his Ego-trip off with another giant guaranteed payday. Now that could be an example of me being flip and potentially insulting. It's how you choose to take it and how personally you seem to be invested in it.

And ultimately every post on here is just some guy stating "my opinion" - including you. So did all of that really need to be said?

You like the movies, I didn't like the Movies - or M. Bay's general output. I'm sure the world will survive that.

Nice sarcasm, bro. It is his movie because ultimately fans are not directing it. They put no work into it, they put no thought into it, yet they claim it somehow belongs to them. Here's a protip: when you need someone else to make something for you then it's not up to you what the finished product is like. Whether you liked it or not doesn't change the fact that you did nothing to make it happen, you're merely a consumer. Saying Bay's films are an ego trip based on that is at best shakey logic.

Does it need to be said? Yes it does. To quote an expert on the subject:

"Fans are clingy complaining dipsh*ts who will never ever be grateful for any concession you make. The moment you shut out their shrill, tremulous voices the happier you will be for it." -Ben Croshaw

Bay followed this advice and currently Transformers is experiencing a surge in popularity it hasn't seen since Beast Wars. I do believe your corelation between not listening to "true fans" and "egotism" is starting to fall apart.

Just so you don't get confused: No sarcasm.

Believe what you wish. I don't agree in the slightest, but then why would I? You have that Opinion is the same as arguement is the same as facts thing rolling nicely - I wont stop it.

If you really believe the quote you use then as another "expert" put it you are "a sad, strange little man and you have my pity - Farewell!" it's one of the worst and most cynical excuses for insulting your audience AND justifying why your end product is crap I've ever heard.

You are welcome to the 2 hours 14 minutes you so obviously deserve/crave. My empty seat will simply mean more room for you.

I'm done.

Motorthing wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:

Motorthing wrote:Ho-hum. You seemed to pick and chosse to suit YOUR opinion too I notice. M. Bay is on record for telling "G1 purists" back in 07 that it was "My movie so get over it!" I think that says pretty much everything that needs to be said here.

Bay may be doinfg another Movie for the fine reasons YOU might think, or he may be finshing his Ego-trip off with another giant guaranteed payday. Now that could be an example of me being flip and potentially insulting. It's how you choose to take it and how personally you seem to be invested in it.

And ultimately every post on here is just some guy stating "my opinion" - including you. So did all of that really need to be said?

You like the movies, I didn't like the Movies - or M. Bay's general output. I'm sure the world will survive that.

Nice sarcasm, bro. It is his movie because ultimately fans are not directing it. They put no work into it, they put no thought into it, yet they claim it somehow belongs to them. Here's a protip: when you need someone else to make something for you then it's not up to you what the finished product is like. Whether you liked it or not doesn't change the fact that you did nothing to make it happen, you're merely a consumer. Saying Bay's films are an ego trip based on that is at best shakey logic.

Does it need to be said? Yes it does. To quote an expert on the subject:

"Fans are clingy complaining dipsh*ts who will never ever be grateful for any concession you make. The moment you shut out their shrill, tremulous voices the happier you will be for it." -Ben Croshaw

Bay followed this advice and currently Transformers is experiencing a surge in popularity it hasn't seen since Beast Wars. I do believe your corelation between not listening to "true fans" and "egotism" is starting to fall apart.

Just so you don't get confused: No sarcasm.

Believe what you wish. I don't agree in the slightest, but then why would I? You have that Opinion is the same as arguement is the same as facts thing rolling nicely - I wont stop it.

If you really believe the quote you use then as another "expert" put it you are "a sad, strange little man and you have my pity - Farewell!" it's one of the worst and most cynical excuses for insulting your audience AND justifying why your end product is crap I've ever heard.

You are welcome to the 2 hours 14 minutes you so obviously deserve/crave. My empty seat will simply mean more room for you.

I'm done.

Ah, such thinly veiled insulting remarks from a poorly disguised troll. I accept your defeat.

Capt.Failure is right, actually. Transformers fans are the definition of an Unpleasable Fanbase. Bay is right; he can either drown out the people screaming "ur doin it wrong!" at him, or he can give in and get an entirely new round of people screaming the exact same thing.

Motormouth, you're actually wrong on this one. Mostly because you're criticizing Capt.Failure for using the "Opinion = Facts" mindset while at the same time you're using it yourself. You may think the movies are crap, and I really can't argue with you (Because as it turns out Opinions =/= Facts) but the $1.5 Billion that both movies have grossed together kinda point to the conclusion that Bay doesn't really have to care what you think, he brought the franchise into the mainstream while putting a lot of money in peoples' pockets doing so.

Short version: The Universal Language is cash, and these movies made a ton of it.

Shadowman wrote:Motormouth, you're actually wrong on this one. Mostly because you're criticizing Capt.Failure for using the "Opinion = Facts" mindset while at the same time you're using it yourself.

Pretty much this, except I was trying to say Opinion =/= Fact, though I might have come on too strong. It's an easy arguement to skew if you argue it strongly.

Capt.Failure wrote:

Motorthing wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:

Motorthing wrote:Ho-hum. You seemed to pick and chosse to suit YOUR opinion too I notice. M. Bay is on record for telling "G1 purists" back in 07 that it was "My movie so get over it!" I think that says pretty much everything that needs to be said here.

Bay may be doinfg another Movie for the fine reasons YOU might think, or he may be finshing his Ego-trip off with another giant guaranteed payday. Now that could be an example of me being flip and potentially insulting. It's how you choose to take it and how personally you seem to be invested in it.

And ultimately every post on here is just some guy stating "my opinion" - including you. So did all of that really need to be said?

You like the movies, I didn't like the Movies - or M. Bay's general output. I'm sure the world will survive that.

Nice sarcasm, bro. It is his movie because ultimately fans are not directing it. They put no work into it, they put no thought into it, yet they claim it somehow belongs to them. Here's a protip: when you need someone else to make something for you then it's not up to you what the finished product is like. Whether you liked it or not doesn't change the fact that you did nothing to make it happen, you're merely a consumer. Saying Bay's films are an ego trip based on that is at best shakey logic.

Does it need to be said? Yes it does. To quote an expert on the subject:

"Fans are clingy complaining dipsh*ts who will never ever be grateful for any concession you make. The moment you shut out their shrill, tremulous voices the happier you will be for it." -Ben Croshaw

Bay followed this advice and currently Transformers is experiencing a surge in popularity it hasn't seen since Beast Wars. I do believe your corelation between not listening to "true fans" and "egotism" is starting to fall apart.

Just so you don't get confused: No sarcasm.

Believe what you wish. I don't agree in the slightest, but then why would I? You have that Opinion is the same as arguement is the same as facts thing rolling nicely - I wont stop it.

If you really believe the quote you use then as another "expert" put it you are "a sad, strange little man and you have my pity - Farewell!" it's one of the worst and most cynical excuses for insulting your audience AND justifying why your end product is crap I've ever heard.

You are welcome to the 2 hours 14 minutes you so obviously deserve/crave. My empty seat will simply mean more room for you.

I'm done.

Ah, such thinly veiled insulting remarks from a poorly disguised troll. I accept your defeat.

due give it a break.

The guy gave a reasoned argument and jsut because it doesnt correlate with your view he is a troll. You are quite tedious and the mods should look into it really, you cant dismiss everyone with the same tired meme over and over again


And i agree with him, I dont want G1 look, i dont want the stupid g1 stories. I jsut want a movie i could enjoy, one which didnt insult my intelligence. Bay has not produced that movie .....yet