The Energon Pub

The returning guy created MP-01, which was great for its day but MP-10 is much more stable.

Megatron is very unstable and has very poor articulation.

He messed up the Seekers mold by putting a large chunk of plane on the hips as a reference to sword sheaths but without swords, even though the original prototype had the fins on his lower legs.

Grimlock has piss-poor robot shoulder articulation and horrible hands.

Rodimus had many design flaws that customisers like me were able to fix but most people couldn't (and shouldn't have had to) and he's also very unstable.

When the new guy took over he brought us far better designs.

Hey, now, Grimlock is still pretty damn awesome.

And people slamming MP-01, and saying "He was PASSABLE back then" (emphasis mine)... dudes, MP-01 obliterated peoples' minds. They couldn't believe it even existed, and thought it was the most awesome thing to ever exist. Yes, now we can look back and see the problems, but back then it was the bee's knees.

As for die-cast... all it does is add weight. Period. It should only be used in the feet, and in any joint that suffers huge amounts of force, especially shearing force.

That all being said - yes, the new guy is 1000x better than the old guy.

The reason we're worried about the old guy returning is because the new guy was so fantastic at it. He made sure that the figures where not only as cartoon accurate as possible, but where also in scale to one another.
Old guy didn't really care about consistency, he looked at every figure isolated from the rest of the line. He made some fantastic figures, but, none of them really go together.

What makes it even scarier is the fact that MP 09 is his version of a toy in the current MP scale, and it sucks.

MP01 was amazing for its time, but it's no-longer up to it. I have both, MP 01 and MP 10, and let me tell you MP 10 is much better than MP01. Sure Mp10 has some problems that Mp1 doesn't but they are much more forgivable than MP1's. Seriously, comparing the two does a disservice to MP10, since it fails in that comparison.

The Matrix is also better, it's die-cast, has more detail and it's show accurate.

The new MP cars are also leagues better than the Alternators/ Binaltech, not only are they accurate alt-modes, but also show accurate bots.


Also, die-cast sucks.

I wonder how much leeway Takara will give him though. It seems to me that Takara started "MP 2.0" for a reason, I don't see them just abandoning that.

El Duque wrote:

Loyal To The End wrote:Then you must prefer mp03 to mp11 ?

Absolutely not, I much prefer MP-11 to MP-03. The changes to eliminate the hip kibble don't impact the jet mode that much. MP-11 still has a very realistic alt mode, but a much better robot mode.

Kobayashi basically designed MP-11...it's pretty faithful to the design MP-03 was supposed to be. That Macross slappy is the one that came in and jacked up MP-03.

Kibble wrote:

El Duque wrote:

Loyal To The End wrote:Then you must prefer mp03 to mp11 ?

Absolutely not, I much prefer MP-11 to MP-03. The changes to eliminate the hip kibble don't impact the jet mode that much. MP-11 still has a very realistic alt mode, but a much better robot mode.

Kobayashi basically designed MP-11...it's pretty faithful to the design MP-03 was supposed to be. That Macross slappy is the one that came in and jacked up MP-03.

That's my understanding as well. Kobayashi did the initial design, then Kawamori came along and jacked it up. So I'll give Kabayashi credit for a great design regarding the MP Seeker mold.

REMINATOR wrote:I remembered when MP1 prototype pic first debut on the internet transfans worshiped MP1 beauty like he was the god of Venus! We marveled at the designer as to how he was able to achieve and hide the front wheel. 10 years later, the same mold is now being bashed as a piece of crap by some fans, this is just a joke

In my defense I never worshiped MP-01. Like I said before, it has a beautiful robot mode, but a crap alt mode, and that's always been my opinion since day one. For me to carry the label of Masterpiece the figure needs to successfully pull off both modes. MP-10 still isn't perfect in that regard, the fifth wheel area is still too thick, but miles better that MP-01.

My biggest concern with Kobayashi is either his designs or the implementations of his designs tend to result in a fragile end product. He basically designed 5 molds and 3 of them are prone to breaking if you transform them with any regularity. MP-01 is solid, likely due to being mostly die-cast and I haven't heard much about MP-08 falling apart, but the wing hinges on MP-03 are notorious for cracking, MP-05 is fragile in general but the tabs on the gun handle in particular, and the leg hinges on MP-09 along with paint scraping from the trailer, the spoiler not pegging in place on his back, or arms randomly falling off are the leading issues with Rod. I think that's the kind of stuff people are concerned about going back to Kobay-san...at least that's it for me.

MP-10 and up, there hasn't been a lot of glaring issues with and they've mostly held up to transforming. The line has also become a helluva lot more interesting since they started opening up the character choices and going with a consistent scale, but regardless of whether that was Hasui's doing or not, I expect that to continue.

El Duque wrote:

Kibble wrote:

El Duque wrote:

Loyal To The End wrote:Then you must prefer mp03 to mp11 ?

Absolutely not, I much prefer MP-11 to MP-03. The changed edition eliminated the hip kibble don't impact the jet mode that much. MP-11 still has a very realistic alt mode, but a much better robot mode.

Kobayashi basically designed MP-11...it's pretty faithful to the design MP-03 was supposed to be. That Macross slappy is the one that came in and jacked up MP-03.

That's my understanding as well. Kobayashi did the initial design, then Kawamori came along and jacked it up. So I'll give Kabayashi credit for a great design regarding the MP Seeker mold.

REMINATOR wrote:I remembered when MP1 prototype pic first debut on the internet transfans worshiped MP1 beauty like he was the god of Venus! We marveled at the designer as to how he was able to achieve and hide the front wheel. 10 years later, the same mold is now being bashed as a piece of crap by some fans, this is just a joke

In my defense I never worshiped MP-01. Like I said before, it has a beautiful robot mode, but a crap alt mode, and that's always been my opinion since day one. For me to carry the label of Masterpiece the figure needs to successfully pull off both modes. MP-10 still isn't perfect in that regard, the fifth wheel area is still too thick, but miles better that MP-01.

I don't know I still like having an alt mode that stays together and with the trailer on both of them they look very similar I still don't like mp10's eyes they look dead hasbro edition fixed that while adding a baby blue color on the legs.

REMINATOR wrote:...he was the god of Venus!

Venus is named after the Roman goddess of love, Venus, who is the Roman equivalent of the Greek goddess Aphrodite. Therefore, "god of a goddess".






Anyway, back on the whole "MP01 vs. MP10" debate:

I dunno... I kinda like my MP01, but if I had the chance to get MP10, I would get it in a heartbeat and sell my MP01. MP10 scales much better with the others than MP01 and MP05. Really though, they ought to focus on making a smaller Megatron to scale better with MP01. I suspect third party companies will beat Has/Tak to the punch, just as they did with Shockwave when Fans Toys made Quakewave.

Mykltron wrote:The returning guy created MP-01, which was great for its day but MP-10 is much more stable.

Megatron is very unstable and has very poor articulation.

He messed up the Seekers mold by putting a large chunk of plane on the hips as a reference to sword sheaths but without swords, even though the original prototype had the fins on his lower legs.

Grimlock has piss-poor robot shoulder articulation and horrible hands.

Rodimus had many design flaws that customisers like me were able to fix but most people couldn't (and shouldn't have had to) and he's also very unstable.

When the new guy took over he brought us far better designs.

90% agree but wasn't the hip kibble on Starscream ver. 1.0 the idea of Shoji Kawamori?

As for MP-01 being cartoon, accurate, well he shares more with the 1986 Movie than the series (except for those com cams on his foreams

On Grimlock, yeah, the fists kind of bugs me.

Megatron? Still have never transformed mine......and never will (thanks to all the fandom's warnings)

Hotrodimus? I wish I could get a hold on ver 2.0.Or maybe release a 3.0?

As for MP-01, he was great for his time. Just like PsOne, for its time (albeit the lack of ram severely......hence its flaws)Paint or missing parts can't be blamed on the designers just for sure (nope, the parts or paint issue wasn't Mykltron's post but a previous one mentioned)

As for the original designer returning, well you need to give the latest one a break guys. He's only human . Maybe he asked for a shift on focus temporarily.

To the OP,oodles of die-cast with no purpose does suck. For MP-01, it was good to an extent but the d@mn paint they used on him (mine is the 1st release 2004) seems to hate die-cast.....keeps peeling off)

MP-10 is what in a sense MP-01 should have been.........MP-04 no count because he has no "Buggy" though I prefer the Hasbro version's optics.

fenrir72 wrote:

Mykltron wrote:The returning guy created MP-01, which was great for its day but MP-10 is much more stable.

Megatron is very unstable and has very poor articulation.

He messed up the Seekers mold by putting a large chunk of plane on the hips as a reference to sword sheaths but without swords, even though the original prototype had the fins on his lower legs.

Grimlock has piss-poor robot shoulder articulation and horrible hands.

Rodimus had many design flaws that customisers like me were able to fix but most people couldn't (and shouldn't have had to) and he's also very unstable.

When the new guy took over he brought us far better designs.

90% agree but wasn't the hip kibble on Starscream ver. 1.0 the idea of Shoji Kawamori?

As for MP-01 being cartoon, accurate, well he shares more with the 1986 Movie than the series (except for those com cams on his foreams

On Grimlock, yeah, the fists kind of bugs me.

Megatron? Still have never transformed mine......and never will (thanks to all the fandom's warnings)

Hotrodimus? I wish I could get a hold on ver 2.0.Or maybe release a 3.0?

As for MP-01, he was great for his time. Just like PsOne, for its time (albeit the lack of ram severely......hence its flaws)Paint or missing parts can't be blamed on the designers just for sure (nope, the parts or paint issue wasn't Mykltron's post but a previous one mentioned)

As for the original designer returning, well you need to give the latest one a break guys. He's only human . Maybe he asked for a shift on focus temporarily.

To the OP,oodles of die-cast with purpose does suck. For MP-01, it was good to an extent but the d@mn paint they used on him (mine is the 1st release 2004) seems to hate die-cast.....keeps peeling off)

MP-10 is what in a sense MP-01 should have been.........MP-04 no count because he has no "Buggy" though I prefer the Hasbro version's optics.

Well I had mp01L so admittedly it did fix many problems that mp01 had so I never experienced any chipping and I got a kickass stand as well.

I have Hasbro MP Prime & Starscream, as well as Takara Megatron. I still like them, but the issues with Megs, are enough of a valid concern, that he will stay in his special glass display-forever-next to Starscream. I do not want to risk damage to Meg's for the fragility issues. I would have purchased Grimlock but he didn't scale right.

I also did my one and only professional custom job to Starscream & Megatron. I'm proud of the work, but will not risk this either.

Despite this, I'm willing to give the architect who drafted/engineered & built the original MP line a chance. He of all people should have learned from the past, so is potentially capable of making the best MP 2.0 toys.

Time will tell in the end, & I'm always willing to give him another chance.

Anyway - I'm slowly buying the new series, along with Grimlock, and I hope it'll be the best of the classic homages.

Tronus_Rex wrote:I have Hasbro MP Prime & Starscream, as well as Takara Megatron. I still like them, but the issues with Megs, are enough of a valid concern, that he will stay in his special glass display-forever-next to Starscream. I do not want to risk damage to Meg's for the fragility issues. I would have purchased Grimlock but he didn't scale right.

I also did my one and only professional custom job to Starscream & Megatron. I'm proud of the work, but will not risk this either.

Despite this, I'm willing to give the architect who drafted/engineered & built the original MP line a chance. He of all people should have learned from the past, so is potentially capable of making the best MP 2.0 toys.

Time will tell in the end, & I'm always willing to give him another chance.

Grimlocks amazing definitely a candidate for best masterpiece he is extremely solid with no chsnce of breakage and tge transformation is very satisfying.

Anyway - I'm slowly buying the new series, along with Grimlock, and I hope it'll be the best of the classic homages.

To answer your original question the new guy seems to have a greater understanding of what most fans want and has been able to deliver on it:

1. Scale
2. More show accurate bot and alt modes
3. More show accurate head and face sculpts
4. And better articulation

I think the die-cast argument should be put to rest. I am actually someone that likes die-cast, but one reason it hasn't been used is because of rising cost of the material. Also, we're not sure how much the lead designer has a say on die-cast.

Quality control is another topic that may not have anything to do with the lead designer.

As others have mentioned - the old designer based his ideas on his impression of the toy, which just didn't resonate with most fans. MP Megatron's face sculpt is a great example. He based the design from one scene in the Transformers movie, which is why Megatron's face looks so elongated.

Other examples include: His unyielding view of that the MP Seekers' alt mode and hip kibble coming from his Macross days; and his attitude of sacrificing transformation or articulation for gimmicks (looking at MP Grimlock's light up hand that doesn't open, and Seekers' face gimmick making the head smaller); and an oversized canon for MP Megatron, which he is incapable of holding up. Then there are unnecessary gimmicks - Grimlock's eye color change. Why? They could have used that money for other things (like a flaming sword!)

The old guy's view on accessories are also off kilter in my opinion. An apron and tray of drinks for MP Grimlock? Are you kidding!! I have yet to meet a fan that has displayed Grimlock with them or say "those accessories really capture the essence of Grimlock". Fire breathing and flame sword have always been Grimlock's trademark.

The old designer is not terrible, but I am going to miss the newer designer. Overall, I got the impression that the old designer is set on doing things his way with his non-mainstream vision of what best represents the figures. I hope I am proven wrong, or I hope TakaraTomy has put in more structure of what they see as the future of the MPs.

Stormrider wrote:To answer your original question the new guy seems to have a greater understanding of what most fans want and has been able to deliver on it:

1. Scale
2. More show accurate bot and alt modes
3. More show accurate head and face sculpts
4. And better articulation

I think the die-cast argument should be put to rest. I am actually someone that likes die-cast, but one reason it hasn't been used is because of rising cost of the material. Also, we're not sure how much the lead designer has a say on die-cast.

Quality control is another topic that may not have anything to do with the lead designer.

As others have mentioned - the old designer based his ideas on his impression of the toy, which just didn't resonate with most fans. MP Megatron's face sculpt is a great example. He based the design from one scene in the Transformers movie, which is why Megatron's face looks so elongated.

Other examples include: His unyielding view of that the MP Seekers' alt mode and hip kibble coming from his Macross days; and his attitude of sacrificing transformation or articulation for gimmicks (looking at MP Grimlock's light up hand that doesn't open, and Seekers' face gimmick making the head smaller); and an oversized canon for MP Megatron, which he is incapable of holding up. Then there are unnecessary gimmicks - Grimlock's eye color change. Why? They could have used that money for other things (like a flaming sword!)

The old guy's view on accessories are also off kilter in my opinion. An apron and tray of drinks for MP Grimlock? Are you kidding!! I have yet to meet a fan that has displayed Grimlock with them or say "those accessories really capture the essence of Grimlock". Fire breathing and flame sword have always been Grimlock's trademark.

The old designer is not terrible, but I am going to miss the newer designer. Overall, I got the impression that the old designer is set on doing things his way with his non-mainstream vision of what best represents the figures. I hope I am proven wrong, or I hope TakaraTomy has put in more structure of what they see as the future of the MPs.

That wasn't him with the Seekers, his original MP Seeker design and mold was much closer to MP 11, it was pretty much G1 Movie accurate, and the face swap gimmick was originally done with removable faces that where clicked into the helmet, including the smirk he had when he threw Megatron out of Astrotrain.
The accessories he included where always based on the cartoon, which is why Grimlock came with his tray, apron, drinks and his brain transferer thinggy. Grimlock's sword was also never on fire in the cartoon, it barely showed up and when it did it only kinda radiated with energy.

Megatron was also originally supposed to come with stuff from the cartoon, including an accurate chest interior, but that was all scrapped due to the transformation.

He always tried his best, but sometimes made the wrong calls when it came to having to sacrifice something.

And then there are the instances over which he had no control, like MP Starscream.

I am cautiously optimistic about this. Like I am with many things.
Koboyashi started the line off well enough and more or less went out with a whimper. The figures were very hit and miss and really many sold because they were the best available. That went on for 7 years, produced 5 molds for a total of (I think) 17 releases. This guy was the man behind Alternity so he knows how to do cars, that gives me some comfort in the future.

Then Hasui stepped up and not only refocused the line but re-energized it as well. With scale and screen accuracy being given major priority. In the last 3 years we've gotten (not counting cassettes or mp11) 4 molds and a total of (I think) 12 releases. Hasui packs a much more varied and impressive resumé in terms of design.

That is a substantial increase in pace as well as, I assume, a substantial increase in profit for Takara because these new toys are far less pick n' choose and much more collectable. As a business strategy I believe it is in Takara's best interest to lest Koboyashi do his thing but to also constrain him to the model that as worked incredibly well for the last few years.

Stormrider wrote:Other examples include: His unyielding view of that the MP Seekers' alt mode and hip kibble coming from his Macross days

Kobayashi (aka the old designer) designed the MP Seeker mold without the hip kibble. The original prototypes that were revealed where essentially MP-11. Prior the final production the design was handed off to Kawamori (aka the Macross guy) for some tweaks. He added the ridiculous hip kibble because he felt it made the alt mode more realistic. That's my understanding of it anyway.

Here's an old solicitation with the original MP-03 Starscream prototype before the addition of the hip kibble:

El Duque wrote:

Stormrider wrote:Other examples include: His unyielding view of that the MP Seekers' alt mode and hip kibble coming from his Macross days

Kobayashi (aka the old designer) designed the MP Seeker mold without the hip kibble. The original prototypes that were revealed where essentially MP-11. Prior the final production the design was handed off to Kawamori (aka the Macross guy) for some tweaks. He added the ridiculous hip kibble because he felt it made the alt mode more realistic. That's my understanding of it anyway.

Here's an old solicitation with the original MP-03 Starscream prototype before the addition of the hip kibble:

Thanks for the correction. Well, I'm glad Kawamori is not in the driving seat.

El Duque wrote:

Stormrider wrote:Other examples include: His unyielding view of that the MP Seekers' alt mode and hip kibble coming from his Macross days

Kobayashi (aka the old designer) designed the MP Seeker mold without the hip kibble. The original prototypes that were revealed where essentially MP-11. Prior the final production the design was handed off to Kawamori (aka the Macross guy) for some tweaks. He added the ridiculous hip kibble because he felt it made the alt mode more realistic. That's my understanding of it anyway.

Here's an old solicitation with the original MP-03 Starscream prototype before the addition of the hip kibble:

Iirc way back, Shoji Kawamori wanted a "samurai" look with those two hip kibbles. They must have given in to him in deference.

Btw, I believe Kawamori was responsible for THS-02. An awesome mold limited only by his size. Imagine if he was built as a voyager?

And there were plans for MP Megatron to have a "Star of Cybertron" chest chamber plus the crystal itself.

fenrir72 wrote:Btw, I believe Kawamori was responsible for THS-02. An awesome mold limited only by his size. Imagine if he was built as a voyager?

Kawamori definitely designed THS-02, which like MP-01 has a fantastic robot mode, but horrific vehicle mode. Still a fun little figure though.

I think that MP-01's vehicle mode is no less bad than MP-10's. I mean, look how fat the legs are in vehicle mode. It looks ridiculous, they even had to add a ladder to the sculpt just so the truck mode would look a little less unfeasible.

Also, MP-10 has a tiny, round head, MP-01 is more cartoon accurate, IMO.

I think people are being unfair against the original designer here, 10 years have passed and surely innovations in that time have contributed to making the figures a little better (subjectively, I might add)? It's not just about the designer surely. This franchise is 30 years old and look at what the best designers could do back then with the technology at their disposal and contrast with today. Unfair comparison.

Banjo-Tron wrote:I think that MP-01's vehicle mode is no less bad than MP-10's. I mean, look how fat the legs are in vehicle mode. It looks ridiculous, they even had to add a ladder to the sculpt just so the truck mode would look a little less unfeasible.

I concede that MP-10's fifth wheel area is far too thick, but luckily it's somewhat camouflaged by the trailer. However, MP-10's cab section is much better than MP-01's. I grew up around trucks, so I'm probably a little more picky. MP-01's cab is too thin front to back, it's smokestacks and wheel/tires are far too small, the indentations where the headlights fall look really bad. Overall MP-10 just looks more homogeneous in truck mode. That my opinion anyway, and I know the proportions on MP-10 aren't perfect, but I do feel they're an improvement.

El Duque wrote:

Banjo-Tron wrote:I think that MP-01's vehicle mode is no less bad than MP-10's. I mean, look how fat the legs are in vehicle mode. It looks ridiculous, they even had to add a ladder to the sculpt just so the truck mode would look a little less unfeasible.

I concede that MP-10's fifth wheel area is far too thick, but luckily it's somewhat camouflaged by the trailer. However, MP-10's cab section is much better than MP-01's. I grew up around trucks, so I'm probably a little more picky. MP-01's cab is too thin front to back, it's smokestacks and wheel/tires are far too small, the indentations where the headlights fall look really bad. Overall MP-10 just looks more homogeneous in truck mode. That my opinion anyway, and I know the proportions on MP-10 aren't perfect, but I do feel they're an improvement.

Yeah I agree that the front of the cab for MP-10 looks nicer than MP-01. But I don't think one is superior to the other overall - I'm talking about the whole package, not demonstrably so (or at least not to me). I just think that 10 years is a long time in toys of this nature, and that some of the design concessions back then (be they budget, agreed size, technology, outside interference etc) may be more favourable now.

Give the guy a chance, damnit

Banjo-Tron wrote:Give the guy a chance, damnit

lol, don't worry MP-01 will always have a place in my collection

Hell, at one point I six versions of the mold. I've been slowing selling them off, but I'm going to keep MP-04. And you're right, a lot of time has passed between then and now. I'm sure Kobayashi has only improved as a designer and learned from the others on the design team. It's not like Hasui left the franchise, he's just working on other stuff. I'm sure these guys communicate.

El Duque wrote:

Banjo-Tron wrote:Give the guy a chance, damnit

lol, don't worry MP-01 will always have a place in my collection

Hell, at one point I six versions of the mold. I've been slowing selling them off, but I'm going to keep MP-04. And you're right, a lot of time has passed between then and now. I'm sure Kobayashi has only improved as a designer and learned from the others on the design team. It's not like Hasui left the franchise, he's just working on other stuff. I'm sure these guys communicate.

Well, his last TF MP was Hot Rod/ Rodimus...