The Energon Pub

While there are several Transformers series that are not well-liked among fans (Animated for its animation style, Beast Machines for its less-kid-friendly approach, Energon for its lackluster quality, etc.), there is one series that isn't liked that much and I don't understnad why: Robots in Disguise.

Why is it that RiD gets so much dislike among the fandom? This is not in regards to its toyline, which does have a lot of strong points. This is about the cartoon. I don't understand why so many people have a hard time watching the RiD cartoon and like to bash it almost as badly as ROTF gets bashed.

What is it about the RiD cartoon that turns everybody off? I honestly don't get why it gets so much flak.

EDIT: One thing I forgot to mention. Keep the talk as civilized as possible. We are all intelligent people here, and any such posts as "Because it was retarded and stupid!! are not good enough reasons.

Sabrblade wrote:While there are several Transformers series that are not well-liked among fans (Animated for its animation style, Beast Machines for its less-kid-friendly approach, Energon for its lackluster quality, etc.), there isone series that isn't liked that much and I don't understnad why: Robots in Disguise.

Why is it that RiD gets so much dislike among the fandom? This is not in regards to its toyline, which does have a lot of strong points. This is about the cartoon. I don't understand why so many people have a hard time watching the RiD cartoon and like to bash it almost as badly as ROTF gets bashed.

What is it about the RiD cartoon that turns everybody off? I honestly don't get why it gets so much flak.

I think one of the reasons was that it relied too much on comedy, that was especially true for the Car Robots original. It features many staples in anime that can be viewed as annoying to the US audience. Examples:

- Stock footage for transformations and combination scenes
- "Transform" and "Combine" as command codes, used all the time

The series was directly dubbed, but also adapted in some places to give some winks to G1 fans (Alpha Trion, Prime and Magnus being "brothers" based on them having the same base toy). The dubbing was... mediocre, and in some places there are glaring mistakes. How many "Iron Mammoth" forms does Galvatron have anyway, he used it for his elephant (Devil Elephant), flying dragon (Devilnodon) and gryphon modes (Devilsaurer)!

In short, it was too Japanese, too comedic and the dubbing fell short in some places. I still enjoyed it tho

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:I think one of the reasons was that it relied too much on comedy, that was especially true for the Car Robots original.

Comedy isn't necessarily a bad thing. I found RiD to be hilarious.

Besides, things got more serious later on once the Decepticons, Ultra Magnus, and Fortress Maximus came into play.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:It features many staples in anime that can be viewed as annoying to the US audience. Examples:

- Stock footage for transformations and combination scenes
- "Transform" and "Combine" as command codes, used all the time

Stock footage has been used since the days of G1. It's nothing that should be glaringly bothersome in RiD. At least it wasn't as padded out as it was in Cybertron/Galaxy Force.

And the Beast Era was ripe with Activation Codes, so this shouldn't be anything new either.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:The series was directly dubbed, but also adapted in some places to give some winks to G1 fans (Alpha Trion, Prime and Magnus being "brothers" based on them having the same base toy).

And how is this a bad thing?

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:The dubbing was... mediocre, and in some places there are glaring mistakes. How many "Iron Mammoth" forms does Galvatron have anyway, he used it for his elephant (Devil Elephant), flying dragon (Devilnodon) and gryphon modes (Devilsaurer)!

No dub is perfect. Besides, you can't deny that the quality of its dub was nowhere near the poor level of Super Link's dub of Energon, or the Omni Productions dubs of Headmasters, Masterforce, and Victory.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:In short, it was too Japanese, too comedic and the dubbing fell short in some places. I still enjoyed it tho

I was mostly asking this question to those who didn't enjoy it.

Because RID is stupid. There isnt a single serious moment in it! I hate the robot designes and the humans are even more annoying than the Unicron trilogy ones. And the voice acting is up my ass. And so is the dialogue. Plus it was a Japanese show, which I hate!

Because it sucked. Because it was lackluster.
No seriously.
I was about 8 when it came out, my mom had always talked about how awesome G1 was, when this game I thought it was a remake....
Once I started watching it, it was just so lame.
An Autobot that liked a car? And it was always whatever her name is's car? Gag got kinda old.
Plus, the villains...the predacons...were AWFUL, it was just like Team Rocket, they ALWAYS lose....

The only thing I liked were the Commandos...mostly because...
You IDIOT, why would you fire at that bird?
*Spaceship flies in the way*
BIRLLIANT, turning a spaceship into a Decepticon.

Or something like that....I always wondered what would happen if he hit the bird....

EDIT:HOWEVER...I have not watched it in a long time because you know...I hated it...
Energon was so much worse though...

My answer is twofold, so I'll divide my answer by the regions.

Personally my issues for Car Robots came down to this. After the level of quality of animation and serious stories thru Beast wars/machines I honestly felt the quality was taking a huge step backwards. and knowing that while BM wasn't as good as Beasties, I would have liked to see Mainframe have the chance to continue the story they had planned, rather then a "kids" story. Regardless, as soon as Car Robots started in Japan a friend of mine (was a bigger fan than I was at the time) sought out fan-sub episodes as fast as they were available, and was eager to share. My opinion at the time was that they weren't as much Transformers but GaoGaiGer with Autobot logos, and frankly if I had wanted to watch GGG I would have just watched that, let alone a re-boot that wasn't necessary in my mind.

That said, I decided that while I had no desire to get the fan-subs I would try to give it a chance when it came to North America.

Sadly with the events at the time right at the beginning of the run, my focus just wasn't there to watch the show, And while the toy line had some great pieces in it, they were next to impossible to find in my area without paying markups that killed whatever interest was there at the time.

It wasn't until I actually saw Scourge in store almost a year later while in New York, that I developed any interest in the toys and have just never had any solid desire to try to watch the series again.

Well since you asked so nicely here are my reasons for not liking RiD and I'm one the most outspoken against it:

1) The MAIN reason why the Transformers are Earth is STUPID. Megatron/Galvatron wants to make kids think that "Evil will always triumph over good" and the Autobots want to stop him. Now if you can find out of all the other Megatron/Galvatron's stupid hair-brained plans and schemes across all the shows out over the years that is dumber this one PLEASE tell me. This is by the dumbest over all plot device ever in Transformers.

2) The jokes, in English, are awful and were not funny.

3) The Autobots outnumber the Predacons and the Decepticons almost 10-to-1 and they still can't shoot them. I mean the Autobots had 6 Spychangers 3 Combiner Team and Autobot Brothers, and 2 Solo Warriors (Tow-Line and Skid-Z) and they still couldn't beat 5 Predacons, 1 combiner team and 1 Decepticon. Even though Animated started out like this at the start it at least clearly stated that the Decepticons were far more powerful that the Autobots by having the Autobots have problems just dealing with Starscream alone (and season 1 finale dealing both Lugnut and Blitzwing). RiD never showed Sky-Bite kicking the Autobot Brothers' butts by himself and having the Autobot Brothers having to out think that stupid shark.

4) Sky-Bite and Sideburn. I would rather listen to 100 annoying Wheelie rhymes than listen to 1 of Sky-Bite's stupid haikus and I would rather watch Showgirls for 24 hours than watch one minute of Sideburn chase after red cars.

5) Characters disappear. While this happened all the time in the orginal Transformers cartoon show, one could conclude it had to with the sizes of the Autobot and Decepticon forces. With such a small size cast characters like Skid-Z gets 1 one episode then re-appears in the final episode there is NO mention of where he is or what he's doing through the whole series. Tow-Line gets two episodes and then vanishes until the final episode.

6) The toys were and are for the most part complete and total crap. Except for Opitmus Prime/Fire Convoy mold all of the original molds suck. Sideburn and Prowl can't stand up on their own feet, Omega Prime, Landmine, and Rail Racer are pain to combine. IMHO none of them were or are fun to transform (much like Binaltech/Alternators) getting Ultra Magnus and the Autobot Brothers into robot mode was a terrible experience for me so much that I left them all in robot mode. The rest of the line is simply a forerunner to the orginal Transformers: Universe toy line with older toys repainted in good, questionable, or bad colors with new and/or stupid names.

There are/were good 2 things about RiD that I liked:
I thought the show's animation was good and I loved the return of the old G1 transformation sound effect.
We got new versions of the Combaticons, Fortress Maximus, Laser Rod Opitmus Prime and the Predacon Trio (Slapper, Dark Scream, and Gas Skunk).
But that was it.
The bad outweighs the good with RiD as far as I'm concerned.

*sigh* I knew this was going to happen. So much hate speech. I've edited the first post with a note regarding how this should be answered.

Okie dokie...or however that's spelled.
I think what ruined it for me was the corniness.
I grew up with Beast Wars, I was used to stuff like that and RiD was so far..below(?) that standard that I just didn't like it.

I did own Mega-Octane though, he was cool.

The main reason I ask why it's so disliked is, well... I LOVED it! It's basically just a fun and light-hearted series that serves as the perfect contrast to the dark and gritty atmosphere of Beast Machines. Not to mention that its voice cast was top-notch, consisting of several voice actors known for many cartoon and anime voice roles; all/most of whom had previously worked for Saban Entertainment and now currently work for Studiopolis.

Not to mention that it brought out one of the coolest Decepticons ever: Scourge. He was this series' answer to Starscream, but was 100 times better than any Screamer. He was cold, ruthless, militaristic, and cunning. He was neither second-in-command (Sky-Byte was) nor did he blatantly state that he wanted to take over. His schemes were long-term, appearing loyal to Megatron at first, then gradually taking matters into his own hands when the time was right. Though, he was orignally a loyal soldier, as well as a competent one, gaining much favor and praise from Megatron, which made Sky-Byte quite nervous, fearing Scourge as a threat to his rank of second to Megatron. However, towards the series' end, something happened to Scourge that makes him (and the other Decepticons) less appealing. I won't say what it is, but I'll just say that Galvatron was a jerk during this event.

Another character that was just awesome was Ultra Magnus. Forget the commanding officers of G1 and TFA Magnus, this Magnus was brutal! Hellbent on taking the Matrix from his brother, Optimus Prime, for himself, this guy made no hesitations to strike down any of his opponents, Autobot, Predacon, or Decepticon. He cared for no one other than himself, but eventually softened up and came around to work with Optimus's team. Usually, he'd show up at the most crucial time of battle to unite with Optimus to become Omega Prime (which is still agruably the best Optimus Prime/partner combining figure). By this point, however, he was mostly now a deus ex machina used to form Omega Prime, but he still retained some coolness in his own right.

Not to mention that, aside from Animated, RiD is probably the funniest of all the TF series. While many may not go for this sort of thing, RiD is abundant with good, classic, and honest anime humor. It doesn't dominate the story, but its presence is still quite evident. Particularly in the cases of Sky-Byte (aguably one of the funniest TFs of all time), the trio of Predacons, Side Burn's obsession with little red sportscars, and other things. Basically, if you liked TFA characters such as Blitzwing and Wreck-Gar, you'll probably like the humor of RiD as well. And it did get serious later on when Fortress Maximus and Galvatron came into the story.

Overall, RiD is just a cool/fun Saturday morning cartoon series. It's best to view it with an open mind and through the eyes of a child. But hey, we're all children at heart in some way, aren't we?

Im actually one of the few who is a G1 person who actually liked all of the TF series from G1 to Animated and the live action movies yes I liked both films but 2 was a little crazy that is just cause of the film happened during the writers strike.

However I dont think TF 3 will suffer that way and should be the way a transformers movie should be. Also I like how Bay is doing it closing the trilogy but leaving it to were it could be redone again by a new director.

I say Bay wants to do Bad Boys 3 after he is done with the TF Franchise I hope so I loved Bad Boys and the 2nd one.

I loved R.I.D. even though it was crazy and hard to understand sometimes it still had some cool moments and cool characters still I dont understand what the hate was about with RID.

Me I hate that RID has never had an N/A DVD Box set of it or an Ultimate set such as Energon which Hasbro could easily to sadly wont never happen so I give up on RID ever being on TV or DVD again. Sad since I have not seen the show sense the last time it was on Fox Kids.

I also Liked Both Beast Wars & Machines but in Machines I hated how they made Optimus into a Preachy wusss about Organic all the time he was not hardcore like in G1 or Beast Wars.

Animated was also really good I too was one of the few who where skeptical about but when I 1st saw Transform & Roll Out when it 1st aired I was hooked. Now if they can just ge off their buts and release Animated S3 that would be Prime.

The movies I liked both but 1 was done really well 2 was a chopped up mess and Megan Fox couldnt act if she tried so I am glad Bay changed her for a new one so lets hope this chick can do a better job. The 2nd one did have a story but it was crazy and overshadowed by the Action to much action not enough story.

I also loved The Unicron Saga all 3 of them one of the few who as enjoyed all the series and the movies and this is from a G1 original who is now 29.

I am eager to see if Prime will be in their too I have both doubts and also exctied at the same time but I have no doubt Prime will be awesome but will just take time to get use to cause it is movie-verse also take use to get use to the new CGI look also.

Well I am off now fixing to get War for Cybertron then it is on TF-Prime 10/10/10 then next year with TF 3.

I hope they make Shockwave a Cybetronian Tank but diffrent from Megs also when he goes Robotic mode he will have his shock cannon gun that will look somewhat similar to G1. Also He will have a cycloptic eye and will be Black.

Rodimus2006 wrote:I loved R.I.D. even though it was crazy and hard to understand sometimes it still had some cool moments and cool characters still I dont understand what the hate was about with RID.

This is the only thing in your post that is relevant to this topic.

Everything else has little-to-nothing to do with the orignal post question.

Sabrblade wrote:

Rodimus2006 wrote:I loved R.I.D. even though it was crazy and hard to understand sometimes it still had some cool moments and cool characters still I dont understand what the hate was about with RID.

This is the only thing in your post that is relevant to this topic.

Everything else has little-to-nothing to do with the orignal post question.

LOL! He got way off with that!

Me personally I found it to be funny and really cool. Though I tend to like most things transformers, it was one of my favorites. Megatron/galvatron was the coolest along with omega prime! Sky-byte was the funniest. x3


Who's the baddest shark around? Who's the smartest shark in town? Sky-Byte, that's me! Who'll drive Scourge into the ground And never let old Megatron down—Sky-Byte, that's me!

I really enjoyed RiD although I wouldn't objectively say it was good. It did have a lot of legitimate flaws so I can understand why people didn't like it.

Something that surprises me about the Transformers fandom is how many people want to see a "realistic" and "mature" Transformers cartoon. That sounds absolutely abhorrent to me given that it's a series about giant transforming alien robots and that Transformers is at its worst when it abandons humour (ie. Dreamwave). Similarly when Transformers got too corny (ie. most of season two, the end of Budiansky's writing) it was abysmal. To my mind, RiD was just the right level of appealing corniness that a kids show about robots should be. But I suspect that's the same reason why the darkier-and-edgier fans hate it.

That said, RiD got better the more you watched it, especially after the Decepticons turned up.

Sabrblade wrote:Overall, RiD is just a cool/fun Saturday morning cartoon series. It's best to view it with an open mind and through the eyes of a child. But hey, we're all children at heart in some way, aren't we?

I think one of the reasons that some fans have a hard time with the show, is because of 9/11, (I remember a poster on this site asking when the show was going to start up on FOX Kids again and getting flamed by a LOT of people). I think on that day many of us lost what childhood innocence we had left and wanted tougher characters and darker stories which RiD is not and never will be, but I will say this: now maybe (and the key word here is MAYBE) 9/11 has "tainted" the series for me.

If and when the show ever gets a BR or DVD release in the USA chances are that I will ultimately buy it (although I doubt I'll buy on the release day) and maybe by that time enough time will have passed so that I can look at it with a fresh perspective and enjoy it. Or maybe not, you never know.

The toy line's orginal molds, except for Optimus Prime/Fire Convoy, still suck.

Diem wrote:Something that surprises me about the Transformers fandom is how many people want to see a "realistic" and "mature" Transformers cartoon. That sounds absolutely abhorrent to me given that it's a series about giant transforming alien robots and that Transformers is at its worst when it abandons humour (ie. Dreamwave).

As one of those people who want a "realistic" and "mature" cartoon, I can say from my perspective that yes, it's about giant transforming alien robots AT WAR.

All TF shows have been light on the fact that it's a war. They either have the comedy factor, some annoying human(s) or Megatron's lame-plan-of-the-week.

BW/BM came close however, BM probably more so, as the characters were generally fighting to survive.

But personally i'd love to see it go a little bit darker, and to shift the focus away from the command structure a little bit and focus on lower ranked characters and how the war affects them, and if some of them go kablooey, well even better!

I've actually only seen a few episodes of RID. That was around the time when I started getting back into TF's, and it was hard to find/remember when it was on tv to catch, i've never bothered trying to find it on the net and there's been no Australian dvd release.

What I saw though I didn't mind, little corny at times, but it looked like it had potential.

I really don't want a mature cartoon, but rather one that takes itself seriously so the Cartoon is GOOD.
RID had some stuff that makes it seem as if the makers just didn't care.
That guy said Megatron's plan was to make children know evil will win over good.
I told my brother that, and we burst out laughing(which I suppose is what the show is supposed to do)...

I'd be fine if it was funny....but with certain things, it seems as if the makers don't care.

Cyberstrike wrote:1) The MAIN reason why the Transformers are Earth is STUPID. Megatron/Galvatron wants to make kids think that "Evil will always triumph over good" and the Autobots want to stop him. Now if you can find out of all the other Megatron/Galvatron's stupid hair-brained plans and schemes across all the shows out over the years that is dumber this one PLEASE tell me. This is by the dumbest over all plot device ever in Transformers.

zenosaurus_x wrote:That guy said Megatron's plan was to make children know evil will win over good.
I told my brother that, and we burst out laughing(which I suppose is what the show is supposed to do)...

I can't say for certain, but I think this was something that the dub thought of. I say this because a lot of Devil Gigatron's "energy vampire" actions were edited for the dub, making Galvatron less frightening than his Japanese counterpart.

While the dub had Galvatron claim to be holding the minds of the children his bats attached to hostage, Devil Gigatron was actually draining away energy from each of them.

In the dub, Omega Prime challenges Galvatron to a final showdown and lets him pick the battlefield. Omega Prime convinces Galvatron to pick the Earth's core in an attempt to trap Galvatron there. In the original, however, Devil Gigatron specifically instructs God Fire Convoy to open the Cybertron Network directly to the Earth core so he can drain the planet's energy directly into himself.

Galvatron wished to rule through "Reverse Burning Justice" or "Burning Injustice"; while Devil Gigatron wished to rule by becoming all-powerful.

Hmm, the original toy molds I love. The car brothers are pretty cool and unique. The show... didn't see much of it.

Burn wrote:

Diem wrote:Something that surprises me about the Transformers fandom is how many people want to see a "realistic" and "mature" Transformers cartoon. That sounds absolutely abhorrent to me given that it's a series about giant transforming alien robots and that Transformers is at its worst when it abandons humour (ie. Dreamwave).

As one of those people who want a "realistic" and "mature" cartoon, I can say from my perspective that yes, it's about giant transforming alien robots AT WAR.

All TF shows have been light on the fact that it's a war. They either have the comedy factor, some annoying human(s) or Megatron's lame-plan-of-the-week.

BW/BM came close however, BM probably more so, as the characters were generally fighting to survive.

But personally i'd love to see it go a little bit darker, and to shift the focus away from the command structure a little bit and focus on lower ranked characters and how the war affects them, and if some of them go kablooey, well even better!

I've actually only seen a few episodes of RID. That was around the time when I started getting back into TF's, and it was hard to find/remember when it was on tv to catch, i've never bothered trying to find it on the net and there's been no Australian dvd release.

What I saw though I didn't mind, little corny at times, but it looked like it had potential.

What about Animated? I mean the war was over, but when they showed Ratchet's flash backs of the war, they where pretty gruesome and dark. For instance in the episode Transwarped they show Ratchet walking through a war torn field with dead bodies and parts laying around. I was suprised they let that into a childrens show! Especually when they emphasise that robots have feelings and "souls" (sparks) too.

Sabrblade wrote:

Cyberstrike wrote:1) The MAIN reason why the Transformers are Earth is STUPID. Megatron/Galvatron wants to make kids think that "Evil will always triumph over good" and the Autobots want to stop him. Now if you can find out of all the other Megatron/Galvatron's stupid hair-brained plans and schemes across all the shows out over the years that is dumber this one PLEASE tell me. This is by the dumbest over all plot device ever in Transformers.

zenosaurus_x wrote:That guy said Megatron's plan was to make children know evil will win over good.
I told my brother that, and we burst out laughing(which I suppose is what the show is supposed to do)...

I can't say for certain, but I think this was something that the dub thought of. I say this because a lot of Devil Gigatron's "energy vampire" actions were edited for the dub, making Galvatron less frightening than his Japanese counterpart.

While the dub had Galvatron claim to be holding the minds of the children his bats attached to hostage, Devil Gigatron was actually draining away energy from each of them.

In the dub, Omega Prime challenges Galvatron to a final showdown and lets him pick the battlefield. Omega Prime convinces Galvatron to pick the Earth's core in an attempt to trap Galvatron there. In the original, however, Devil Gigatron specifically instructs God Fire Convoy to open the Cybertron Network directly to the Earth core so he can drain the planet's energy directly into himself.

Galvatron wished to rule through "Reverse Burning Justice" or "Burning Injustice"; while Devil Gigatron wished to rule by becoming all-powerful.

I don't see how any Japanese or American kid could have ever found Gigatron/Megatron and Devil Gigatron/Galvatron frightening, I could understand if they found him stupid and annoying, but frightening? Uh no.

And in the end regardless of what happened in the Japanese version it a very, very, very STUPID idea for the English language version.

I really wanted to like RiD but I felt insulted by the series and ripped off by the toy line. If you love it, more power to you, simply put I didn't.

If you take the kids out, I actually like RiD. I was about 20 when they played it down here. I liked the toys, though I did think they were a bit cheaply made, and Ultra Magnus always had really loose joints and now, he spends most of his time in vehicle mode because he can't stand on his own any more.

I thought Skybyte was really funny, but that's just me.

I did think Megatron was a bit of a putz. And I will always be enraged by the fact some (insert lengthy string of profanities) broke into my flat because my flatmate left the window open and stole my RiD Galvatron (and Palisades Nemesis).

I also thought Scourge was neat, and the Decepticons.

I mean, honestly, it was sooooo much better than Beast Wars and Beast Machines. I really couldnt' stand Cybertron, I just thought that Unicron Trilogy was a mess and it took too long to get from point A to point B. I'm a child of the 80s, I have a short attention span.

RiD wasn't great. It wasn't the bestest thing ever. But it was, IMHO, better than the UT.

Mind you, I liked Animated more than I liked RiD.

SlyTF1 wrote:

Burn wrote:

Diem wrote:Something that surprises me about the Transformers fandom is how many people want to see a "realistic" and "mature" Transformers cartoon. That sounds absolutely abhorrent to me given that it's a series about giant transforming alien robots and that Transformers is at its worst when it abandons humour (ie. Dreamwave).

As one of those people who want a "realistic" and "mature" cartoon, I can say from my perspective that yes, it's about giant transforming alien robots AT WAR.

All TF shows have been light on the fact that it's a war. They either have the comedy factor, some annoying human(s) or Megatron's lame-plan-of-the-week.

BW/BM came close however, BM probably more so, as the characters were generally fighting to survive.

But personally i'd love to see it go a little bit darker, and to shift the focus away from the command structure a little bit and focus on lower ranked characters and how the war affects them, and if some of them go kablooey, well even better!

I've actually only seen a few episodes of RID. That was around the time when I started getting back into TF's, and it was hard to find/remember when it was on tv to catch, i've never bothered trying to find it on the net and there's been no Australian dvd release.

What I saw though I didn't mind, little corny at times, but it looked like it had potential.

What about Animated? I mean the war was over, but when they showed Ratchet's flash backs of the war, they where pretty gruesome and dark. For instance in the episode Transwarped they show Ratchet walking through a war torn field with dead bodies and parts laying around. I was suprised they let that into a childrens show! Especually when they emphasise that robots have feelings and "souls" (sparks) too.

I think it's possible to balance dark and funny, grim and cheesy...but it's very rare to see it done well. Beast Wars had a good stab at it but Beast Machines had many of its own problems. Animated managed to get a lot of maturity under the radar, maybe thanks to its cartoony looks. And Dark Awakening may well be the best G1 episode of all.

But there were a lot of times it went wrong. Furman's writing on the comics breathed life, character and maturity into the franchise butsadly it was tempered by his insistence on focussing on the same small group of characters, his tendency to casually and callously kill characters that were just beginning to become fleshed-out and his bizarre love of inserting otherworldly forces and gods into the otherwise moderately-serious sci-fi of the story.

Dreamwave demonstrated what happened if you sucked all the humour and fun from Transformers and ended up producing an informative and thought-provoking yet empty and soulless experience. There were a lot of interesting ideas but the characters were at their most mechanical.

What I dislike is not grimdark stories but the typical execution of them.

I do strongly agree with you on a number of points Burn. I feel like there was a lot more that was happening at the heart of the war that the comedy of RiD/G1 and the limited character focus of all the comics never covered. Where are the master strategies, the sieges, the scorched earth? Where is the focus on the front line soldiers, the artillerymen, the desperate civillians?

If Transfomers is going to be mature in any fashion, I'd far rather it be in the manner of Suikoden 2, Dave Sim's High Society or the works of Naoki Urasawa. Something that impresses me with its scope, detail and intelligence rather than with its blood and guts.

(Sorry Sabrblade, I totally went off topic )

Diem wrote:(Sorry Sabrblade, I totally went off topic )

Let's just call it a "Big-Lipped Alligator Moment" and get back on track.

Just Negare wrote:If you take the kids out, I actually like RiD.

Kids? Well, there was really only one. His friends did appear sometimes, but they were just guest appearances.

Just Negare wrote:I thought Skybyte was really funny, but that's just me.

...

I also thought Scourge was neat, and the Decepticons.

Qutoed for truth.

Just Negare wrote:I mean, honestly, it was sooooo much better than Beast Wars and Beast Machines.

What?!! Beast Machines I can understand, but Beast Wars?!! Nothing can top the quality, competence, and awesomeness of that series

Just Negare wrote:Mind you, I liked Animated more than I liked RiD.

Same here, but I still liked RiD, nonetheless.