The Energon Pub

Tidalwavex wrote:If anything caused the eventual cancellation of the transformers 1980's cartoon it was the extremly long hiatus breaks & re-runs after one season ended & another season began 10+months later.

I doubt the long breaks helped, but I am not yet convinced they were the primary cause. How do the season breaks for TFs compare to other popular cartoons of the time?

Tidalwavex wrote:strikes always delay things. so theirs no doubt in my mind the 1980's actors strike had a impact on hasbro's 1980's cartoons.

However, it does not seem like the strike dates line up with your conclusions. The decision to cancel was made, I believe, before the strike.

Tidalwavex wrote:thus far no one has provided any proof that cartoons that air at 7:30 am get less viewers than cartoons that air at 3:30 pm week days.

currently right now the cartoon network is airing it's flag ship/most popular & higly rated,highly viewed cartoons on the 7:00 am,7:30 am.8:00 am & 8:30 am week days time slots like as follows: bakugan at 7:00 am,beyblade at 7:30 am & pokemon at 8:00 am.

Just for the record,these days hardly any cable network airs their flag ship,most popular highly viewed newer/older cartoons at the 3:00pm,3:30,4:00pm time slots. most of these cable networks air their highly viewed,most popular,flag ship cartoons on in the early mornings or on in prime time hours at 7:00pm,7:30pm,8:00pm,8:30 pm weekdays. DON'T BELIEVE ME,Just grab your cable remote & scroll thru various cable networks that air kid related cartoons meant for kids.

You are correct, no one has yet given proof either way regarding 7:30 vs 4:00 slots from 1986. I firmly believe that the higher rated shows got the 4:00 slot.....and this was certainly my recollection. Not everyone in the US, but everyone I knew was at, on their way to, or prepping for school departure at 7:30.

Regarding shows now.....I don't think we can compare. DVR and insane channel selection has changed so much of the landscape. Sure, some of us had VCRs in the day, but now the actual airtime of a show matters much less.

tidalwavex wrote:BTW,fOR what what it's worth,Hasbro labels their Transformers toys from the years 1984 thru 2011,for ages 5 & up. Everyone here claims the bulk 95% of the transformers toy sales from toddlers. So PERHAPS TODDLERS WHO ARE NOT ENROLLED IN SCHOOL YET WERE ALL WATCHING THE 1986 TF G-1 season 3 cartoon series at 7:30 am. Who's to say these toddlers created higher viewerships rattings than the previous 3:30 pm weekdays time slot.

Maybe, but this feels like grasping.....also, for most of us you would need to go younger than 5 to avoid the issue of school. And why would the toddlers not watch at 3:30?

Sto_vo_kor_2000's facts regarding dates should be addressed if you still want to lay some blame on the strike since his dates re: cancellation vs strike imply no relation.

Tidalwavex wrote:from january 1986 thru september 1986 their was re-runs of seasons 1 & 2 that caused season 3 to air it's first & other episodes at 7:30 am week days from september 15,1986 thru november 20,1986.

your facts are correct, your conclusions are not.

Fact, season 2 episodes finished "first" airing in January of 86.........but that was the plan from the start.All 40+ episodes of season 2 had already aired by Jan 9th 1986.

The film was originally due to be released in early summer, season 3 was due to start with the new school year in September, like it was planned.

and thats what happened.Nothing was "forced" about it, it went according to plan.

If anything caused the eventual cancellation of the transformers 1980's cartoon it was the extremly long hiatus breaks & re-runs after one season ended & another season began 10+months later.

to begin with it was almost 8 months later, mot 10 , and you can try useing that as an excuse, but I dont think its going to help your case.

The last season 1 episode aired on December 15, 1984, the first season 2 episode aired on September 23, 1985, a bit longer of a "break" and it didnt seem to hurt the franchise, and there was no film inbetween to keep the interest going like they had in 1986

strikes always delay things. so theirs no doubt in my mind the 1980's actors strike had a impact on hasbro's 1980's cartoons.

but the strike didnt take place untill mid 1987, the show was already pretty much canceled before the last 86 episode aired.

No matter how you cut it, you have provided any evidence that this strike had no effect on this show.

i've clearly got all my evidence in this thread.

and the conclusions your drawing from them is faulty.

1- a voice overs actors strike happened. strikes are proven to cause delays.

the strike took place after the series was canceled.

2- extremly long hiatus breaks & showing re-runs for 10+ months after a season ened & another season started up is a sure fire way to lose your viewers & lose interest. newer episodes get the highest viewership rattings,re-runs get less viewership rattings.

they did the same thing between season 1 and 2, but viewer ship didnt drop, on the contrary it grew.And they did it with out a movie in between.

thus far no one has provided any proof that cartoons that air at 7:30 am get less viewers than cartoons that air at 3:30 pm week days.

What needs to be proven, theres a reason certin timeslots are wanted, why some timeslots were reserved for older and not so "liked" shows.

currently right now the cartoon network is airing it's flag ship/most popular & higly rated,highly viewed cartoons on the 7:00 am,7:30 am.8:00 am & 8:30 am week days time slots like as follows: bakugan at 7:00 am,beyblade at 7:30 am & pokemon at 8:00 am.

Sorry, but none of those are considered Cartoon networks "flag ship or most popular shows these days.Pokemon may have staying power, but it has long left the arena of being a "most popular" show.Bakugan and Bayblade have also fissed out.

CN's most popular shows include ADVENTURE TIME (8 p.m.)REGULAR SHOW (8:30 p.m.) YOUNG JUSTICE (7 p.m.) ,BEN 10: ULTIMATE ALIEN (7:30 pm.) GENERATOR REX (8 p.m.) STAR WARS: The Clone Wars [8;30pm]

most of these cable networks air their highly viewed,most popular,flag ship cartoons on in the early mornings

when they do air popular shows in the am its not "NEW" episodes, its older ones....so that hardly helps your case here

BTW,fOR what what it's worth,Hasbro labels their Transformers toys from the years 1984 thru 2011,for ages 5 & up. Everyone here claims the bulk 95% of the transformers toy sales from toddlers. So PERHAPS TODDLERS WHO ARE NOT ENROLLED IN SCHOOL YET WERE ALL WATCHING THE 1986 TF G-1 season 3 cartoon series at 7:30 am.

You dont even realize how wrong that sounded do you?The toys are marked for 5 and up,and marked twards kids between 5 and 10.Most kids start kindergarten at between 4 and 5 years old and many have already be in Pre-K since about 3.

So most kids were already enrolled in school at that time.Back in 86 I had 2 foster brothers in 1fist grade, at the age of 6, my 2 daughters were in pre-school/daycare.

Who's to say these toddlers created higher viewerships ratings than the previous 3:30 pm weekdays time slot.

the facts say that didnt happen.

sure, it could have happened, but it didnt.If the show had gotten higher ratings Hasbro wouldnt have pulled its support, the show wouldnt have been canceled in some markets.

I'm willing to entertain your theroies, but you arent providing any reasons to believe them.

F Prime wrote:Sto_vo_kor_2000's facts regarding dates should be addressed if you still want to lay some blame on the strike since his dates re: cancellation vs strike imply no relation.

As far as I can tell, and feel fgree to correct me if you find a better source, the strike in question was somewhere between 11 days long and just about a month.

And was resolved before July of 87.At that time season 3 had long ended production [a year earlier] and the rebirth was near end of its production as well.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

F Prime wrote:Sto_vo_kor_2000's facts regarding dates should be addressed if you still want to lay some blame on the strike since his dates re: cancellation vs strike imply no relation.

As far as I can tell, and feel fgree to correct me if you find a better source, the strike in question was somewhere between 11 days long and just about a month.

And was resolved before July of 87.At that time season 3 had long ended production [a year earlier] and the rebirth was near end of its production as well.

IMHO,This argument/whatever concerning lower viewership rattings that lead to the shows cancellation for TF G-1 1986 season 3,doesn't add up

1-Season 3 only aired for 2 months with newer episodes. even then some season 1 & 2 episodes slipped into the 2 months.
I HARDLY THINK 2 MONTHS OF AIRING NEWER SEASON 3 EPISODES COULD HAVE CAUSE THE ENTIRE CANCELLATION OF THE USA TF G-1 CARTOON SERIES.

2-From november 21,1986 thru the entire 1987 year. it was all re-runs. every single season 1,2 & 3 episode+RTOOP & season 4 got a chance to air episodes in 1987. So lets blame all these episode IF WE THINK THE SHOW GOT CANCELLED DUE TO LOWER VIEWERSHIP RATTINGS. As all seasons 1,2,3 & 4 aired all their episodes from november 21,1986 thru the whole entire 1987 year.

ALSO LETS STOP BLAMING SEASON 3 IN 1986 FOR THE CHANGED TIME SLOT. clearly the changed time slot was due to 10 months of season 1 & 2 re-runs from january 1,1986 thru september 14,1986. SEASON 3 AIRED IT'S FIRST EPISODE AT 7:30 am. so season 3 isn't the fault for the changed time slot.

Tidalwavex wrote:IMHO,This argument/whatever concerning lower viewership rattings that lead to the shows cancellation for TF G-1 1986 season 3,doesn't add up

And in my opinion, you havent posted anything that comes close to putting a dent in the idea.Keep in mind, not every market changed to a AM timeslot with the start of season 3.

So seasons 3's downfall is still due to its own mistakes.

1-Season 3 only aired for 2 months with newer episodes. even then some season 1 & 2 episodes slipped into the 2 months.
I HARDLY THINK 2 MONTHS OF AIRING NEWER SEASON 3 EPISODES COULD HAVE CAUSE THE ENTIRE CANCELLATION OF THE USA TF G-1 CARTOON SERIES.

Season 1 and 2 aired new episodes for basically the same amount of time.season 1 for almost 3 months, season 2 for almost 4 months.

2-From november 21,1986 thru the entire 1987 year. it was all re-runs.

again, the same was said for the previous 2 seasons.

So lets blame all these episode IF WE THINK THE SHOW GOT CANCELLED DUE TO LOWER VIEWERSHIP RATTINGS.

And when the same was done in season 1 asnd 2 it didnt lead to the shows cancellation.
Season 1 episodes proved their worth by gaining enough fan support to lead to a season 2.
Season 2 episodes proved their worth by gaining enough fan support and together with the support of season 1 lead to a feature picture.
What did season 3 get us?How did it prove its worth?What did season 3 lead to?

ALSO LETS STOP BLAMING SEASON 3 IN 1986 FOR THE CHANGED TIME SLOT. clearly the changed time slot was due to 10 months of season 1 & 2 re-runs from january 1,1986 thru september 14,1986. SEASON 3 AIRED IT'S FIRST EPISODE AT 7:30 am. so season 3 isn't the fault for the changed time slot.

Sorry, but theres nothing "clear" about it.If anything I feel the true blame falls to the film, but with season 3 they did decide to take their "cue" from the film.So, its still the series fault.

Between season 1 and 2 just about the same amount of re-runs were running and it didnt lead to such a timeslot change.

Dude, just about anyone here will tell you I'm the first to support asny idea that go'es against popular pre-conceptions, but so far you havent provided anything that even remotley challenges the idea that season 3 didnt suffer from declining viewership due to its own flaws.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

F Prime wrote:Sto_vo_kor_2000's facts regarding dates should be addressed if you still want to lay some blame on the strike since his dates re: cancellation vs strike imply no relation.

As far as I can tell, and feel fgree to correct me if you find a better source, the strike in question was somewhere between 11 days long and just about a month.

And was resolved before July of 87.At that time season 3 had long ended production [a year earlier] and the rebirth was near end of its production as well.

I believe the strike ran from around 6/17/87 until 7/27/87, a little over 5 weeks. I don't believe it played any role in the cancellation of the series. The main reason cited is always "declining interest"....same thing that cancelled the toy lines.

All cartoons produced in the day had limited life spans. Once the companies felt that there was enough episodes for syndication, the decision to renew or cancel is made. "He-Man & Masters Of The Universe" still had strong toy sales in 1985, when the show was canceled. This was done as the show had reached the syndication requirements and to focus the production on "She-Ra: Princess Of Power", which ran two seasons and was canceled due to low ratings and declining interest. And in regards to long run of repeats, MOTU was just as guilty as TF. Hell, it continues to this day. MOTU continued to rollout toys in the original line through 1988, a full three years and one film later. By the time season three rolled around, TF had reached the 65 episode requirement.

In regards to the time slot change in 1986, as noted, it was not universal. In Nebraska, where I live, it was on at both 7:30 and 4:00. The former was a Fox affiliate and the latter was Super Station WGN, which is available in almost all basic cable packages. After it went off the air, it continued on WGN in the afternoons through 1988 and in the mornings, it was edited into segments that would air during "Bozo The Clown Show" from Chicago, airing from Tuesday through Thursday. Multipart episodes took longer to air. The show was still advertised, even well after it had ended. And I'm not talking about the 1988 "season five" era. Even before "The Rebirth", the show was still advertised as being on and well before "season five" began it's run.

As noted, the strike was much later so we can rule that out entirely.

Declining interest in toys. That is true, but not in 1986 and 87. Kids were still buying them, with some getting their first ones during this period. Was it lower than in 85? Yeah, but not so low that the line was discontinued right away. The movie probably did play a part in it, but only for the "I hate Transformers now because so and so is dead". The rest of us kept on buying or having our parents do so. As the Transformers Wiki points out, some kids just grew up and thought they were too cool for something as kiddie as playing with toys. On average, kids who were six in 84 and nine in 87, would stop playing with these toys and watching these cartoons in between then. I was one of those who kept going until the line was done in the US, before "Generation 2" and I was thirteen.

I think it is what it is. The show's ratings went down due to lack of interest as kids were growing up. The film and "Five Faces Of Darkness" just helped those kids to "grow up".

"Only" 98 Episodes?

"Only" 3 seasons and change?



What other Transformers series has lasted longer than 3 seasons and 98 episodes?

Answer: None. Not one.

stk wrote:"Only" 98 Episodes?

"Only" 3 seasons and change?



What other Transformers series has lasted longer than 3 seasons and 98 episodes?

Answer: None. Not one.

Well, Beast Wars had three seasons, but only 52 episodes.

But you're right. 3 seasons and 98 episodes is nothing to scoff at. Most shows don't last that long. Hell, even the original Star Trek didn't last that long!

stk wrote:"Only" 98 Episodes?

"Only" 3 seasons and change?



What other Transformers series has lasted longer than 3 seasons and 98 episodes?

Answer: None. Not one.

Four seasons, not three. "The Rebirth" was three-episode fourth season.

To be fair, the show being on weekdays is why we got ninety eight episodes. Course, that's also why we had so many errors per episode. Even before Akom took over in season three. It should also be noted if Hasbro hadn't decided to shorten "The Rebirth", it would've hit 100 episodes. Every show from "Beast Wars" on, only manage to get to about forty to fifty episodes before it's cancelled.

Mat001 wrote:To be fair, the show being on weekdays is why we got ninety eight episodes.

Judging by its episode release dates after the MTMTE pilot, G1 season 1 seemed to air its episodes on Saturdays instead of the weekdays.

Shadowman wrote:Well, Beast Wars had three seasons, but only 52 episodes.

But you're right. 3 seasons and 98 episodes is nothing to scoff at. Most shows don't last that long. Hell, even the original Star Trek didn't last that long!

almost.

3 seasons, 79 episodes.

Sabrblade wrote:

stk wrote:"Only" 98 Episodes?

"Only" 3 seasons and change?



What other Transformers series has lasted longer than 3 seasons and 98 episodes?

Answer: None. Not one.

Four seasons, not three. "The Rebirth" was three-episode fourth season.

it became a 4th season, but thats not how they intended it.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

stk wrote:"Only" 98 Episodes?

"Only" 3 seasons and change?



What other Transformers series has lasted longer than 3 seasons and 98 episodes?

Answer: None. Not one.

Four seasons, not three. "The Rebirth" was three-episode fourth season.

it became a 4th season, but thats not how they intended it.

Well, that's what it's known as today: G1 season 4.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

stk wrote:"Only" 98 Episodes?

"Only" 3 seasons and change?



What other Transformers series has lasted longer than 3 seasons and 98 episodes?

Answer: None. Not one.

Four seasons, not three. "The Rebirth" was three-episode fourth season.

it became a 4th season, but thats not how they intended it.

Well, that's what it's known as today: G1 season 4.

true enough

I doubt the long breaks helped, but I am not yet convinced they were the primary cause. How do the season breaks for TFs compare to other popular cartoons of the time?

I consider the Re-birth 3 episodes as season 4.

I consider the 2 RTOOP episode as Season 3.5 or the first 2 episodes of season 4. Because clearly season 3 wrapped up & those 2 RTOOP episodes were added/forced in later.

I stil have nightmares of the awful Season 5. with tommy & that puppet PMOP thing chatting while the episodes were airing.
That G-2 cyber cube on the G-2 cartoons was equally awful.

They should do a "Robot chicken" episode. with a season 5 tommy & PMOP Puppet reunion episode/skit. where tommy cries/complains about never getting to be a headmaster decades ago. and PMOP cries/complains for never returning on usa TF cartoons in his PMOP form like he kept promising tommy & the viewers he would. it would be kinda cool if peter cullen voices PMOP.

TigerMegatron wrote:I consider the Re-birth 3 episodes as season 4.

I consider the 2 RTOOP episode as Season 3.5 or the first 2 episodes of season 4. Because clearly season 3 wrapped up & those 2 RTOOP episodes were added/forced in later.

Doesn't matter what you consider them. The fact of the matter is that "The Rebirth" is season 4, and "The Return of Optimus Prime" is the season 3 finale.

Yikes! What a long-winded thread.

98 episodes wasn't a bad run at all. Honestly, it's hard to keep a show like that going for much longer. Sure, there have been some longer but a lot of iconic cartoons have had fewer episodes, too. As far as the voice actors hating on the studio/director, have you guys not seen all the interviews with the voice talent praising Wally Burr left and right?

(No 19 page replies, please )

Shadowman wrote:

stk wrote:"Only" 98 Episodes?

"Only" 3 seasons and change?



What other Transformers series has lasted longer than 3 seasons and 98 episodes?

Answer: None. Not one.

Well, Beast Wars had three seasons,

Yeah, but I was asking what other series had exceeded 3 seasons... which none have.

Sabrblade wrote:Four seasons, not three. "The Rebirth" was three-episode fourth season.

Yeah, I know that. My wording was responding to the OP. That's why I said "and change". Meaning, 3 seasons and a little extra. I doubt you're going to come across a bigger fan of The Rebirth than me, so trust me, I know it was Season 4.


The bottom line is I've seen this question asked a few times in different places. "Why did the G1 cartoon only last..." etc., etc. And it's a disingenuous question, because it makes it sound like some other TF series has lasted longer than that. Beast Wars didn't. Hell, even if Animated had gotten a 4th season, the episode count still would have been nowhere near G1. Who knows...maybe TFP will surpass it (although I don't really expect that to last beyond 3 seasons, either). But so far, nothing has.

stk wrote:The bottom line is I've seen this question asked a few times in different places. "Why did the G1 cartoon only last..." etc., etc. And it's a disingenuous question, because it makes it sound like some other TF series has lasted longer than that. Beast Wars didn't. Hell, even if Animated had gotten a 4th season, the episode count still would have been nowhere near G1.

Agreed. And even if the cartoon only ran for 98 episodes, the G1 franchise itself still ran for seven (nine in other countries) years, longer than any other TF franchise to date.

stk wrote:Who knows...maybe TFP will surpass it (although I don't really expect that to last beyond 3 seasons, either). But so far, nothing has.

If not TF: Prime specifically, then the Aligned continuity itself is planned to run for the next seven years to a decade.

Its doesnt make sense to me either, it was the clear the best transformers cartoon series past, present and short term future. The drawings, characters, story plots were really good!!

unawaredave wrote:Its doesnt make sense to me either, it was the clear the best transformers cartoon series past, present and short term future. The drawings, characters, story plots were really good!!

98 episodes isn't enough for you? And, no, it was certainly not the best TF series ever. It had just as many (if not more) animation errors, plot holes, static characters as later series. It was good for its time, but a lot of it doesn't completely hold up to today's standards.

To be honest, I'm of the mind they cancelled it because end of the day, teh show was there to sell the toys, and the toys weren't doing so well, so they just had to call it quits. Kids can bore easily, and if something new comes along, they move into that. Then of course, a decade or so later we get BW, and then a whole host of other new stuff coming out of Japan and America, so more interest, more stuff, live action movies.

Its all about selling toys, it was never about adding something to the culture.

I'm okay with that. Even if there were other reasons for its cancellation.