The Energon Pub

For Maximals there is only a group of Autobot desedants who are smaller and use less energy than their ancestors.

For Predacons there is...

G1 Predacons = Decepticon sub-group with Decepticon insignias. They were techically just Decepticons. They were just as much their own group as the Constructicons, Stunticons, Insecticons, or any other Sub-group from the G1 era.

BW Predacons = Decepticon decendents with Predacon insignias. They never really made it to the states but there are of course Predacons with Vehicle modes in the Japanese Beast Wars series and the Bot Con "Dawn of the Futures Past" exsclusives all have vehicle modes. So it was never really a requirement for Beast Wars Maximals and Predacons to have beast modes in fact the only real defineing factor was that they were alot smaller than their ancestors.

RID Predacons = Any bad guy with a beast mode with Predacon insignias. The RID Predacons all had to have Beast Modes as their defining factor as they were just as big as the Autobots and Decepticons. This may only be in the U.S. dub of the series I'm not sure but this was implyed when they were scanning alt modes for the Decepticons and one of the protoforms allmost scanned a bird Sky-Byte said the protoform would of come out as a Predacon if that had happened. Allthough apperently Decepticons are allso more powerfull and a character with both beast and vehicle alt modes can be either one depending on how powerfull they are sence Megatron was a Predacon and when he changed to Galvatron he proclaimed that he was then a Decepticon. (even though that never showed up on his toy.) I would assume that if they had any good guys with Beast alt modes in the series they would be Maximals but we never saw any beast characters on the heroic side.

Armada Predacon = A toy only character who was a Decepticon and not the first character to be named after a G1 Sub-group. (BW Dinobot and I still think it'd be funny considering his Dawn of the Futures past alt mode if his Pre-Earth name was Constructicon.)

Animated Predacons = Technorganic Decepticons with Decepticon insignias. Allthough never actully refered to as Predacons in the series, EVER, the title of the Episode implys that Blackarachnia and Waspinator were indeed Predacons. This may of just been intended to be a refrence to their BW names sakes as Animated was notorious for adding in refrences to previous incarnations of their characters includeing makeing Wreck-Gar throw his G1 alt mode at Bumblebee. Both characters were technorganic so it's possible that they might be considered Predacons for that reason where as the Dinobots would not be considered to be Maximals because they were completly robotic. But that does make me wonder sence Sari was technorganic as well, would she be a Maximal? They never really gave her any kind of Cybertronian title but I would think if Technorganic robots like Blackarachnia and Waspinator are Predacons than Sari would have to be a Maximal.

So, yeah, why do Predacons have to be so confusing?

Maximals have never offically exsisted outside the Beast era so there's really only one version of them however they have 2 different insignias as the Maximal logo changed from Beast Wars to Beast Machines. Never really quite sure what the point of that was. Predacons could technically have 2 symbols as well but one of them would be the Decepticon insignia. It was worn by Predacons so why not.

It seems every new series that reuses the Predacon name has entirely different definitions of what a Predacon is but there has been much use for the Maximal name. What is up with that?

actually there are atleast 3 predacon insignia's. g1, bw, and timelines, i.e. the one i modified for my avatar. plus there are the insignias of the original predacons here, a guy named Predacon, and shattered glass predacons.

also there is a maximal peace keeper insignia.

it must be because predacons are sooo much more awesome than maximals

Name_Violation wrote:it must be because predacons are sooo much more awesome than maximals

Although I consider myself more of an Autobot, and therefore a Maximal by proxy, I have to agree with this statement There were far more Predacons that I liked as opposed to Maximals.

Beast machines maximals are what made me hate the maxi's sooo much. the series got too hippy/preachy for me.

G1 i actually like Abominus more than Predaking. granted predaking has those gun toes to look out for...

Predicons just sound cooler dude!

When it comes to Predacons, I have to stick with G1. Those 5 were just badass. Razorclaw is my favorite Decepticon after Shockwave. I wish he would have actually gotten a good character development in the comics. And predaking was just a "Don't-f**k-with-me" combiner. Not slow and stupid like the others. He actually lived up to his name of being an "ultimate predator" like he was tagged in the comics. And who could forget the comic story "Gone But Not Forgotten" with Predaking/Predacons and Megatron in a badass battle to the death. Yeah, the Predacons lost, but Megatron got FUBAR. I had respect for the Preds ever since.

As for the BW Preds, there were more for the same reason there were more Decepticons in G1 and in any other continuity: overwhelming odds makes kids root for the heroes much more. But I must say BW was the most balanced as far as characters are concerned. There never were an *overwhelming* number of Preds. there were only 2 or 3 more.

Rodimus Prime wrote:As for the BW Preds, there were more for the same reason there were more Decepticons in G1 and in any other continuity: overwhelming odds makes kids root for the heroes much more. But I must say BW was the most balanced as far as characters are concerned. There never were an *overwhelming* number of Preds. there were only 2 or 3 more.

The way BW started out they were outnumbered by 2 in the first episode and with Dinobot switching sides it made both teams even for a while. Allso when they got Transmetals the Maximals outnumbered the Predacons for a while.

The first season ended with...

Maximals
# Optimus Primal
# Rattrap
# Rhinox
# Cheetor
# Dinobot
# Tigatron
# Airazor

Predacons
# Megatron
# Scorponok
# Terrorsaur
# Tarantulas
# Waspinator
# Blackarachnia
# Inferno

So they were tied for the begining and end of the first season but of course Primal was killed on the Maximal side and the Predacons lost both Scorpinok and Terrorsaur. Then Optimus was brought back to life, Silverbolt and Quickstrike were added to the cast and that made the Maximals outnumber the Predacons by 2 for a while.

Maximals
# Optimus Primal
# Rattrap
# Rhinox
# Cheetor
# Dinobot
# Tigatron
# Airazor
# Silverbolt

Predacons
# Megatron
# Tarantulas
# Waspinator
# Blackarachnia (became a Maximal towards the end of the series)
# Inferno
# Quickstrike

It always seemed there were just a couple more Preds. But in Season 2 Tigatron and Airazor also vanished and Dinobot was killed in the best character kill-off ever. (Only rivaled by Comic Scorponok's death scene.) Then Tigerhawk came back. Then there was Depthcharge for the Maximals. And then Rampage for the Predacons. They tried to keep it even.

It always comes to that there are more bad guys than good guys in all form of entertainment. See Decepticons.

Rodimus Prime wrote:As for the BW Preds, there were more for the same reason there were more Decepticons in G1 and in any other continuity: overwhelming odds makes kids root for the heroes much more.

Sorry to interupt but I think your a bit mistaken.

In the G1 cartoon the Autobots out numbered the Decepticons....unless your counting the nameless generic seekers and sweeps which is close to impossible to count.

By the end of season 2 the Autobots numbered at 49 while the Decepticons only numbered at 35.

Season's 3 & 4 added 43 more Autobots and 39 more Decepticons.

Which is a total of each group in G1...

92 Autobots
74 Decepticons

And I didnt count characters like the Female Autobots or Alpha trion.

And BTW......in the G1 toy line the Autobots outnumber the Decepticons as well.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:As for the BW Preds, there were more for the same reason there were more Decepticons in G1 and in any other continuity: overwhelming odds makes kids root for the heroes much more.

Sorry to interupt but I think your a bit mistaken.

In the G1 cartoon the Autobots out numbered the Decepticons....unless your counting the nameless generic seekers and sweeps which is close to impossible to count.

By the end of season 2 the Autobots numbered at 49 while the Decepticons only numbered at 35.

Season's 3 & 4 added 43 more Autobots and 39 more Decepticons.

Which is a total of each group in G1...

92 Autobots
74 Decepticons

And I didnt count characters like the Female Autobots or Alpha trion.

And BTW......in the G1 toy line the Autobots outnumber the Decepticons as well.

Something about your math seems wrong.

You said there were 49 Autobots at the end of season 2 and they added 43 in season 3 but your total came out to 92. Did you forget to subtract the characters who got killed in the movie?

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:As for the BW Preds, there were more for the same reason there were more Decepticons in G1 and in any other continuity: overwhelming odds makes kids root for the heroes much more.

Sorry to interupt but I think your a bit mistaken.

In the G1 cartoon the Autobots out numbered the Decepticons....unless your counting the nameless generic seekers and sweeps which is close to impossible to count.

Yes, they're counted. They're Decepticons, even if they're generic. Therefore, Cons > Bots.

Rial Vestro wrote:Something about your math seems wrong.

You said there were 49 Autobots at the end of season 2 and they added 43 in season 3 but your total came out to 92. Did you forget to subtract the characters who got killed in the movie?

Actually I did.

But even subtracting those that died the Autobots still outnumber the Decpticons.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Yes, they're counted. They're Decepticons, even if they're generic. Therefore, Cons > Bots.

Even if you count them Bot's still outnumber Cons.

If your going to count the Sweeps, the Generic Seekers and Cyclonus's Armada group.

The amount of "CONFIRMED" Sweeps was 7.

The amount of "CONFIRMED" Cyclonus's Armada group was 5 of Cyclonus's Armada group.

And about 16 different colored seekers.

And only 1 Generic Reflector double was ever seen.

And 1 Generic tape called Scout.

So that takes the total of 104 Decepticons [not counting deaths]

But since your allowing the "Generic Decepticons" to be counted then you have to allow for the "Generic Autobots" to be counted.

And in that the Decepticons are seriously out numbered.

There was about 6 Female Autobots.

1 Autobot Bounty Hunter

Alpha Trion

And thousand's if not millions of Junkions and Autobots from the planet of Paradon.

And the Sharkticons dont count because they belonged to the Quints.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And thousand's if not millions of Junkions and Autobots from the planet of Paradon.

And the Sharkticons dont count because they belonged to the Quints.

That's a horrible reason to not count them. If you're not going to count something it should be the Junkions sence as far as I know only Wreck-Gar joined the Autobots and non of the rest of them were even from Cybertron and never seen ever again.

Rial Vestro wrote:That's a horrible reason to not count them.

It seems like a horrible reason not to count characters that "NEVER" joined forces with the Decepoticons?????That were "NEVER" called Decepticons on the show????

If you're not going to count something it should be the Junkions sence as far as I know only Wreck-Gar joined the Autobots and non of the rest of them were even from Cybertron and never seen ever again.

The Sharkticons followed the Quints, and while the Quints may have worked with the Cons from time to time, they never joined the ranks of the Decepticons.

They were never called Decepticons.The Quints,Sarkticons and the Aligatorcons werent Decepticons.

They were a 3rd party.

Wreck-Gar joined the Autobots.

Werck-Gar was the leader of all Junkions.the Junkions followed their leader.The Junkions were called Autobots on the show.

And the Junkions were seen after the movie..

Research is your friend not your enemy

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Rial Vestro wrote:That's a horrible reason to not count them.

It seems like a horrible reason not to count characters that "NEVER" joined forces with the Decepoticons?????That were "NEVER" called Decepticons on the show????

That wasn't what you said. What you said was that you weren't counting them because "they belong to the Quintessons" which so did the Autobots and Decepticons once apon a time. So it's basically like you're only counting robots who were built on Cybertron AFTER the Rebellion.

If you're not going to count something it should be the Junkions sence as far as I know only Wreck-Gar joined the Autobots and non of the rest of them were even from Cybertron and never seen ever again.

The Sharkticons followed the Quints, and while the Quints may have worked with the Cons from time to time, they never joined the ranks of the Decepticons.

They were never called Decepticons.The Quints,Sarkticons and the Aligatorcons werent Decepticons.

They were a 3rd party.

Wreck-Gar joined the Autobots.

Werck-Gar was the leader of all Junkions.the Junkions followed their leader.The Junkions were called Autobots on the show.

And the Junkions were seen after the movie..

Research is your friend not your enemy

Nope, only Wreck-Gar and MAYBE a couple others were seen after the movie but the Junkions were from the movie were still never seen again. At no point in season 3 were there ever as many Junkions as what appeared in the movie.

Yes, Wreck-Gar is the leader of the Junkions, yes Wreck-Gar was an Autobot, but no the Junkions didn't all follow their leader. Just because someone is your leader doesn't mean you're allways going to agree with the choices he or she makes hence there are bound to be Junkions who never left the planet of Junk. Wreck-Gar is the only confirmed Junkion to join the Autobots.

http://www.geocities.com/regenesis0/jets/



like 4 generic cassettes anf a full extra reflector + 1 unit shown.
so 111 generics. plus maybe a few more.

edit* the edge with a cassette and a reflector clone get cut off, source http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Image:GenericDec ... _MTMTE.jpg

Rial Vestro wrote:
That wasn't what you said. What you said was that you weren't counting them because "they belong to the Quintessons" which so did the Autobots and Decepticons once apon a time. So it's basically like you're only counting robots who were built on Cybertron AFTER the Rebellion.

You misunderstood me....but maybe I should have been clearer.

Point is theres a big difference between being property and formally being property.

Nope,

Yep.....and if you had done your research you would know that.

only Wreck-Gar and MAYBE a couple others were seen after the movie but the Junkions were from the movie were still never seen again. At no point in season 3 were there ever as many Junkions as what appeared in the movie.

Even if we only saw a handful more my point was made.

I never said we saw any where near the same amount of Junkions that we saw in the film.

And besides.....we saw a good number of Junkions in "The Big Broadcast of 2006".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBU22gBq6Aw

Some even looked exactly like Wreck-Gar.

So again you need to do research.

Yes, Wreck-Gar is the leader of the Junkions, yes Wreck-Gar was an Autobot, but no the Junkions didn't all follow their leader. Just because someone is your leader doesn't mean you're allways going to agree with the choices he or she makes hence there are bound to be Junkions who never left the planet of Junk. Wreck-Gar is the only confirmed Junkion to join the Autobots.

Again sorry but no.

Other Junkions were seen working with Autobots and it was directly stated that the Junkions were Autobots.

Look things up before you post because this is getting really old.

Name_Violation wrote:http://www.geocities.com/regenesis0/jets/



like 4 generic cassettes anf a full extra reflector + 1 unit shown.
so 111 generics. plus maybe a few more.

edit* the edge with a cassette and a reflector clone get cut off, source http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Image:GenericDec ... _MTMTE.jpg

I did mention the "Reflector" doubles but I never noticed those "Generic tapes"

Good find

Even if we only saw a handful more my point was made.

I never said we saw any where near the same amount of Junkions that we saw in the film.

A hand full is not the same as "all" You said "all junkions" so yes you did. And then you allso added this.

Again sorry but no.

Other Junkions were seen working with Autobots and it was directly stated that the Junkions were Autobots.

So again, yes, you, DID.

All means, ALL and the simple fact is NO THEY DIDN'T.

Even if other Junkions were seen in season 3 it still does change what I said which was that "Wreck-Gar is the only CONFIRMED Junkion to join the Autobots." He's the only Junkion that even has a name and even if others were seen in season 3 they were never seen in large numbers like they were in the movie. We don't even know who all the other Junkions were let alone weather or not any of them were Autobots.

Hence Wreck-Gar is the only CONFIRMED Junkion to join the Autobots is right. ALL Junkions are Autobots is WRONG. You can not account for an entire planet of people who were never named and rarely seen, the only one you can account for is Wreck-Gar.

BTW just to clear things up a bit. This was in general not in any spicific series so the actual Maximal vs. Predacon count for the US cartoons is...

Maximals 14

Predacons 26

And that's counting Blackarachnia and Dinobot twice, once for each group. Blackarachnia and Waspinator were allso counted as 2 characters each BW and Animated same with G1 and BW Rampage.

Rial Vestro wrote:A hand full is not the same as "all" You said "all junkions" so yes you did.

No I did not.

I think your feelings and ego are hurt, because your proven wrong so often, that your now seeing words when they aren't there.

My original statement was about how if we are to count the "Generic Decepticons" then we must to count the "Generic Autobots".

Here are my exact words......

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:But since your allowing the "Generic Decepticons" to be counted then you have to allow for the "Generic Autobots" to be counted.

And in that the Decepticons are seriously out numbered.

There was about 6 Female Autobots.

1 Autobot Bounty Hunter

Alpha Trion

And thousand's if not millions of Junkions and Autobots from the planet of Paradon.

As you can see I said "thousand's if not millions" but I NEVER said "ALL".

So as always........"YOU FAIL!!!!!!"

Rial Vestro wrote: And then you allso added this.

Again sorry but no.Other Junkions were seen working with Autobots and it was directly stated that the Junkions were Autobots.

And?????

Some how I still dont see the word "ALL" in there.

Rial Vestro wrote:So again, yes, you, DID.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9Jcpagfieg

Rial Vestro wrote:Even if other Junkions were seen in season 3 it still does change what I said which was that "Wreck-Gar is the only CONFIRMED Junkion to join the Autobots."

Sorry but thats not all you said.

Your exact words were.......

Rial Vestro wrote:as far as I know only Wreck-Gar joined the Autobots and non of the rest of them were even from Cybertron and never seen ever again.

Which you were wrong on 2 out of 3.

1]Other Junkions were seen again

and as I said a few times already........

2]The Junkions were called Autobots in the show.

Theres also an argument that can be made for saying the Junkions also came from Cybertron but thats a different debate.

Rial Vestro wrote:He's the only Junkion that even has a name

And....whats your point????

None of the Generic Decepticons were named on the show either.

Rial Vestro wrote: and even if others were seen in season 3 they were never seen in large numbers like they were in the movie.

Again I never mentioned seeing "ALL" of them, besides.....plenty were seen in "The Big Broadcast of 2006".

Rial Vestro wrote: We don't even know who all the other Junkions were

Right

Rial Vestro wrote: let alone weather or not any of them were Autobots.

Wrong.

I repeat, The Junkions were called Autobots.

Rial Vestro wrote:Hence Wreck-Gar is the only CONFIRMED Junkion to join the Autobots is right.

Hence.........

Rial Vestro wrote: ALL Junkions are Autobots is WRONG. You can not account for an entire planet of people who were never named and rarely seen, the only one you can account for is Wreck-Gar.

They were called Autobots just like the robots from the planet Paradon.

And if you had done some research you wouldnt look like a fool right now.