The Energon Pub

Well I figured we'd do another neat little topic. Respect and understanding stems from knowledge.

So I want to know why you all came to the conclusion of your beliefs. What led to you following Christianity, Atheism, Paganism, etcetera or why you're still trying to find your path.

For me, I've always believed that there was something out there. I was big into the paranormal as a kid, aliens, the whole sha-bang. I was saved when I was 10-13 somewhere in there. Got the greatest feeling in the world when it happened what I now dub "the tingles", which just secured to me that there is something out there.

After several years Christianity and me just didn't seem to mesh, so I stopped doing the whole church thing, it didn't help that my friends who also happened to be christian also seemed incredibly hateful towards everyone not like them. So I moved on.

Around high-school my parents decided to go towards a Greek-Orthodox church, which was incredibly boring, never got a single feeling from that church, it seemed old, dusty and empty. So I stopped going to that as well.

From high-school leading up to college I was an incredible douche-bag towards everybody, kinda lost myself until about 2003 when I realized that I was an ass, and kinda adopted a monkish attitude.

In 2005 I moved to Fort Wayne to attend college, my rommmate started dating a girl who invited me to a group that discussed everything from catholicism to paganism at the local university here in fort wayne. I went, and had a blast. Been going ever since.

Shortly after the pagan group I started playing World of Warcraft, and started playing a Tauren Shaman, I absolutely loved the lore behind the shaman that I started doing research on actual shamanism and something clicked perfectly.

So I continued to research shamanism in all it's forms, I went through native american, celt, south american, african, found that all shamanism is pretty much the same world-wide even through tribes that had no contact with each other, ever.

Then one day around easter me and my friends did a Ostara ritual at a friends house, she follows the Norse pantheon, I was chosen to read the portion for Odin. When it came time for me to read my part, as I was going through the lines, I started getting a tingle in my spine, the same tingle I felt when I was little and was saved. Upon speaking the words "Hail Odin!" a kid who attended the ritual out of curiosity and was one of those staunch christians ended up blacking out and collapsing onto the floor. It was either the best coincidence ever, or the funniest joke ever played by a diety.

After this happened I started researching norse shamanism, and this clicked better than they had when I just found Shamanism. So I started workin with the runes, created my own staff/walking stick and painted runes on it(up until I thought it had gotten infested with bugs and had to saw it in half)

Around the same time I started doing ghost hunting. Came across many upon many encounters that can't be described as a human spirit. Saw what looked like an imp within my home as I was watching tv, found a couple divine presences and demonic presences along the St. Joe river, elementals, faeries(and if I could come up with a scientific explanation that doesn't start delving into quantum mechanics, parallel universes etc I would explain it away as natural phenomenon).

The last few years have been amazing, I've seen stuff I thought I'd never have the chance to see. I still believe there are many, many deities and every person has their own path that works for them, mine happens to be the Norse.

How did you find your way?

strange im sure i posted in this thread already.
back on topic:

my family is christian (wouldnt call us church goers since only go about 10-20 times a YEAR). i personally dont believe that there is a higher powerful being out there. i do read the bible, particpate when we go to church, but i do not believe in christianity. so i guess that makes me athiest.

Some churches elicit a feeling of peace and spiritual wholeness to me, and some don't its mostly a matter of location. I've encountered several such places, a huge rock by itself in the middle of a hay field...a tree standing alone in the same field. Certain locations along a stream, etc.

I have been ultra-secular Christian, sometimes bordering on Atheist, nearly all my life. But, then I became obsessed with Transformers. Current religion: Secular Unicron Worship .

Oh, and I explain ghosts with quantum particles carrying people's presence, actions and sometimes sounds across time and space.

Why do I believe?

Because I was saved from two car wrecks, and it opened my eyes to see there's more going on behind the scenes than I originally thought.

My parents are both Christians and I've basically been in a Church setting since my earliest memory. During my teen years however, I just kinda drifted and paid no attention to the here and now or the here after.

You could say I was a prick. (Most teenagers are though.)

When I was 19 I wrecked a car and smashed the living daylights out of it and the car I rearended. I had no seatbelt on, neither did my passenger or her children in back (yes, I learned that lesson.) and other than a few bruises and a couple of scratches, all of us walked away unscathed. (Her kids didn't even have a mark on them!)

The police on the scene, and the E.R. doc said it was a miracle that she and I survived. We both could've been ejected from the car. She banged her head against the windshield, I hit the steering wheel (even blacked out for a second) and neither of us were permanently hurt.

In 2003 I was delivering pizzas, and drove into a sharp curve and no matter how hard I tugged that wheel, the tires just would not grip and the car rolled down a hill and rested pretty much on it's side. I had to climb out through the passenger side of the car and slowly, otherwise I'd have been the straw that broke the camel's back and taken the car all the way down the hill.

I wasn't hurt at all that time, just shaken up. To top it all off? The car was in perfect working order! I was actually able to drive home in one piece and safely. Yet another miracle.

Both times, my Mom said "God was watching over you." and it struck me, both times, as truth.

Those two examples just helped to solidify what I've always known but never admitted.

Every time I look at the birth of a new life, read about a miracle in the news, I realize God does exist and he's in the details.

I asked God for forgiveness, asked Christ to be my savior and became a Christian.

I realize that even though I'm a Christian, that I can be abrasive and rude, sometimes too much. But that's on me and other Christians aren't like me. (well some are, some aren't.)

I'll admit, I don't always see eye to eye with the Church, or the followers and sometimes like to go my own way, which is why I say each of us should speak for ourselves and not allow Pat Robertson or others like him do so for us, but in the end we all share the same goal together as believers.

Sometimes I get angry with God, and really it's my fault and I shouldn't be so angry with him (it's always due to my impatience. Always.)

I also realize I'm a human being and I've still got a long way to go. I'm going to continue down that path and I know that's what's right for me.

And with Revelations coming true more and more everyday, if that doesn't give folks a wake up call, I'm not sure what will.

did the jews get to rebuild there temple ( i must be too far out of the loop if i didnt know this)

but my problem is i believe there is some higher being of power, but there is no one single entity (sp) out there.

I believe in God.

My parents were never churchgoers and didn't bring me up in anything remotely like a Christian upbringing, so it's not like I was "born into it." I had to come to my own decision and still reaffirm it. I don't have a dramatic story to tell about why I believe. But I believe.

I think that, if science were all there is and there were no higher power, we couldn't be here. It's the something-from-nothing argument: something physical must come from something. It couldn't come from nothing. And science can only deal in the physical. I've mentioned this to some people and they always ask me where God came from, then, because HE must have come from something. But then if you postulate a world with God, then you postulate something outside the realm of science and therefore aren't bound by scientific or physical logic. So you therefore CAN have something come from nothing since God lives outside our human experience. We're quite obviously here, so we can choose to believe in one of two things: that the universe just spontaneously came up with us, even though that defies physics, and everything is physical; or that we were created by something unexplained by science.

There are also the scientific WTFs. I do believe in evolution, the Big Bang Theory, and not the Young Earth theory (though science can't account for everything, it has strong evidence for or against these things), but I believe evolution is supervised. Take the giraffe. There's a certain type of giraffe who would have died out long ago if evolution were all that was. This giraffe, with its long neck, would need a heart to beat at a certain strength or blodo would never reach its brain because gravity would be pulling the blood down. So it would die before it could evolve. So it evolves with a stronger heart. But then teh first time it takes a drink from a stream, the force of the blood shooting into its brain, since it's now stronger and working WITH gravity (the giraffe's head is angled down) would blow out its head. So this breed of giraffe would never have the chance to evolve and would die out. If evolution takes steps to correct mistakes, this giraffe would never have lived through its first and evolution wouldn't have a chance to do anything.

Same with the bombardier beetle. It has a defence mechanism where it creates a small explosion by expelling two different chemicals. But evolution would first have to know to separate these chemicals. So if they were combined inside its body, the bombardier beetle would never have a chance to evolve since its own abdomen would explode before evolution could correct its mistake.

Scientists have said that human DNA is so complex that we would take 100 times the age of the Earth for DNA to evolve to the point it is right now. I've also heard that, for the Earth to become what it is today, it would have needed much more time than what scientists think is its age (can't remember how long it would need).

There are a number of other things, but these are the ones off the top of my head. Obviously these point to the existence of a god rather than the Judeo-Christian God, so my faith has to take a step in the Christian direction after these revelations.

I do believe in God which doesn't mean I ignore science. I just think that science is God's method of interaction. To me, science itself points to a higher creator, and I think it takes more faith not to believe than to believe. I may have opened this thread up to a different direction, but I just wanted to explain some of my reasons for believing.

Undead Waffles wrote:but my problem is i believe there is some higher being of power, but there is no one single entity (sp) out there.

Wait, but in your first post you said you didn't believe in a higher power and were atheist.

I believe the Bible is the truth because of 2 Timothy 3:16. When I was two years old I was afflicted with Guillain-Barre syndrome, a potentially life-trheatening disease that begins by paralyzing your limbs and working its way to the heart. I got better. In first grade I had it again and now, several years later, I can run, jump, and am perfectly fine. Only by God's grace do I find such a thing possible, for a toddler to be healed twice from a disease that "Refrigerator" Perry of the Chicago Bears is struggling with.

I was born and raised Catholic and will die Catholic. With that said I did my own investigations into my faith and what I beleive about life and politics and everything, and discovered that Catholism was smack bang similar with my own beleifs.

My faith has only grown stronger since I started my new job, I see stuff all the time that cannot be explained. And just when I think I'm going insane I overhear other staff talking about the same things I've seen and experienced.

Its creepy as Hell.

I also live by Gallalio's quote "I do not beleive the same God who endowed us with sense and reason intended us to forgo their use". Believe in God all you want, just don't be a dumbarse about it.

Why do I believe?

Because I've seen Heaven and Hell. God told me not to go any church just to have faith and love for Him and that's what I do.

Why is an ant an ant? Why is an eagle an eagle? 2 entirely different species of animals an totally opposite spectrum's of life's food chain yet one is no more important than the other. Both serve their purpose in the balance of life.

Why is almost EVERYTHING that exists the mortal enemy of an ant?

Why do eagles have no mortal enemy's besides Mankind?

Is it POSSIBLE that a man/woman whom spent his whole life doing wrong toward fellow man suffers the second life of a doomed creature like the ant?

And, is it possible that a man/woman whom spends their whole life doing good and just things for their fellow man enjoys the freedom of flight and to be king in a kingdom?

Is it possible that someone with a balanced life of right and wrong end up in the center of the food chain spectrum, only to deal with the yin's and yang's of life as in his previous life?

Do you ever look into your pet's eyes and it seems they know more than they can communicate?

Just thoughts I entertain of reincarnation I am not a total believer in this hypothetical theory. I do not have a belief in any kind of religion personally. I have traveled the path of religion for may years in my life and have studied many books and have asked many ghosts to help me live a good, just life and I personally, got no results. I just believe life is yin and yang. A balance of things good and bad. It explains IMO why innocent babies die and awful men live the lives of mortal kings.

I choose not to live my life wanting to be rewarded for the good things I do nor, the bad things I have done that I regret. I only try to learn from my mistakes and treat fellow man as I would want to be treated regardless of a spiritual outcome. I do my best to suck the positive out of every minute I am alive and happy and with those I love. After all, NOTHING you are told is guaranteed.

Cyberstrike wrote:God told me not to go any church just to have faith and love for Him and that's what I do.

I really like this answer.

In the end it is all about faith...

Cyber Bishop wrote:

Cyberstrike wrote:God told me not to go any church just to have faith and love for Him and that's what I do.

I really like this answer.

In the end it is all about faith...

Indeed. And fellowship can be between two or more people, even outside the walls of a Church.

I'm Agnostic, what am I supposed to say? "I believe...or do I disbelieve?" I picked the wrong faith for this argument. I guess, because I don't want to concern myself with all these details. Or perhaps it speaks to my lazy nature.

That said, I do believe there is some manner of higher power, so I guess I'd lean more towards Catholic. (And I say Catholic because that's how I was baptized) And this is because I can't possibly wrap my mind around there being "nothing" after life. I have consciousness, sentience, sapience, and I can't imagine not having it. So, ultimately, I think my philosophy is "We'll find out when it happens."

And as for "encounters from beyond," I happen to remember, while we were moving out of our old house, we were having lunch while cleaning up, and all of us (My sisters, me, and some of our friends) could quite clearly hear a girl singing, even though there were no children around.

Autobot032 wrote:

Cyber Bishop wrote:

Cyberstrike wrote:God told me not to go any church just to have faith and love for Him and that's what I do.

I really like this answer.

In the end it is all about faith...

Indeed. And fellowship can be between two or more people, even outside the walls of a Church.

Very true!

I am not sure what I believe about God or the afterlife. I just don't think there is any way to know for sure until you die.

God Thundercracker wrote:I am not sure what I believe about God or the afterlife. I just don't think there is any way to know for sure until you die.

That's agnosticism for you. "What happens when we die?" "We'll find out when it happens."

Cyber Bishop wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

Cyber Bishop wrote:

Cyberstrike wrote:God told me not to go any church just to have faith and love for Him and that's what I do.

I really like this answer.

In the end it is all about faith...

Indeed. And fellowship can be between two or more people, even outside the walls of a Church.

Very true!

Really i never mean any offence but when and how did god talked you and said things about church?

I think believeing things like god just makes people feel happy and relaxed.(and nothing bad about it)

I was a muslim for 21 years and happy about believeing god feeling god with me, but after reading sophie's world; i started to question islam and became an atheist. Questioning does the trick of not believeing since Socrates .

I think only bad thing about religions is religious fanatism harming and thinking bad of a person due to his/her religion. A good person is good and a bad person is bad; religion dont make difference.

Koray wrote:

Cyber Bishop wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

Cyber Bishop wrote:

Cyberstrike wrote:God told me not to go any church just to have faith and love for Him and that's what I do.

I really like this answer.

In the end it is all about faith...

Indeed. And fellowship can be between two or more people, even outside the walls of a Church.

Very true!

Really i never mean any offence but when and how did god talked you and said things about church?

I think believeing things like god just makes people feel happy and relaxed.(and nothing bad about it)

I was a muslim for 21 years and happy about believeing god feeling god with me, but after reading sophie's world; i started to question islam and became an atheist. Questioning does the trick of not believeing since Socrates .

I think only bad thing about religions is religious fanatism harming and thinking bad of a person due to his/her religion. A good person is good and a bad person is bad; religion dont make difference.

Well, it's not like God spoke to us in a conversation, and we responded back. But there are signs, things happen for a reason, things we do not understand, beyond our control.

And those things happen outside the walls of a Church and show us believers (and those who don't) that he exists.

The miracles in everyday life, the gift of a new day, when you come to realize that God does exist, and some of the signs had nothing to do with being in a Church, you come to realize that you can still walk with God and have his peace in your life without having to listen to misguided voices proclaiming horrible deeds, in his name. You don't have to see other hypocrites babble on and on, you already have enough hypocrisy of your own.

You also come to realize that with the invention of radio, TV, and the internet, God's word is always just one channel away. The Bible is just one page away, and his love is always there.

My Grandmother was a strong, faithful Christian in the last decade of her life. She rarely attended Church due to her physical handicaps (including a stroke that crippled her inside and out) so she listened on the radio, for hours on end, watched preachers on TV, and attended Church whenever possible (which wasn't often. Though she tried, she tried so hard.)

After seeing her strong faith, her love for God, and his love for her, I realized that sometimes a Church can get between you and God, rather than bring you close together. NOTE: A Church, not ALL Churches. Each Church has their own leader, and some of those leaders are purely "Do as I say, not as I do." while many others are genuine human just like the rest of us, and admit their mistakes and tell the congregation that they're walking the same path we are, and they're no closer or more important to God than any of us. All we have to do is ask God's help, his forgiveness.

We should go among a congregation much like ourselves, so we can learn together. It can be difficult, but not impossible. It just takes time and a lot of will power to weed through the negative Churches. (and there are negative Churches in all Denominations.)

If we felt the care and love from one another, we'd be more apt to go to Church and be together. Humanity is the problem, not God. People wish to interpret God's word however they choose, make it fit their picture of the world, and that's just not the case.

Even if you don't always agree with a certain scripture, it's not up for interpretation. God says what he means and means what he says. Sometimes we need a little interpretation to open the door to understanding, but once we're in, and we've gotten an idea of what he's talking about, we should leave it at that and take it to heart that he means what he says, says what he means. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

People are the problem. Not God.

I'm an Atheist. I have been since my mid-teens, when I read Douglas Adams' books for the very first time, and discovered he was an Atheist, which led me to read up more on the subject. What I read made sense to me, especially questions such as the Problem of evil. So, I found myself gravitating towards Atheism. It's turned out to be a good thing, because the fact that I personally believe that no deities exist has led me into causes to protect this planet and the people who live on it, my rationale being that if no 'god' (or gods) are there to sort it out, it's about time the human race got up off it's arse and started doing something about it.

Me, Grimlock! wrote:There are also the scientific WTFs. I do believe in evolution, the Big Bang Theory, and not the Young Earth theory (though science can't account for everything, it has strong evidence for or against these things), but I believe evolution is supervised. Take the giraffe. There's a certain type of giraffe who would have died out long ago if evolution were all that was. This giraffe, with its long neck, would need a heart to beat at a certain strength or blodo would never reach its brain because gravity would be pulling the blood down. So it would die before it could evolve. So it evolves with a stronger heart. But then teh first time it takes a drink from a stream, the force of the blood shooting into its brain, since it's now stronger and working WITH gravity (the giraffe's head is angled down) would blow out its head. So this breed of giraffe would never have the chance to evolve and would die out. If evolution takes steps to correct mistakes, this giraffe would never have lived through its first and evolution wouldn't have a chance to do anything.

That logic is flawed. That would assume that evolution first effects the look of the animal and then the inner "technology" if you will.
That's like designing a machine and then think of it's purpose and function. Evolution happens simultaneously the Giraffe started out looking totally different and adapted to it's needs evolving into what we know as a Giraffe today, but not from yesterday to today but over the course of thousands of years, while the neck grew larger, the hart grew stronger to support the head with blood and a system to allow it to drink.

Same with the bombardier beetle, who says it had those chemicals in it during it's first evolutionary step?

Scientists have said that human DNA is so complex that we would take 100 times the age of the Earth for DNA to evolve to the point it is right now. I've also heard that, for the Earth to become what it is today, it would have needed much more time than what scientists think is its age (can't remember how long it would need).

There are also scientists that state all facts lead to the earth being no older than 6.000 years.....

Hadn't thought that about the giraffe. You're right. I'll have to look it up to see what we think happened.

Dead Metal wrote:Same with the bombardier beetle, who says it had those chemicals in it during it's first evolutionary step?

Not really with you on this one. No one says they had to have those chemicals during their first evolutionary step, but whenever they did acquire the last one, that's when the problem would happen.

Scientists have said that human DNA is so complex that we would take 100 times the age of the Earth for DNA to evolve to the point it is right now. I've also heard that, for the Earth to become what it is today, it would have needed much more time than what scientists think is its age (can't remember how long it would need).

There are also scientists that state all facts lead to the earth being no older than 6.000 years.....[/quote]

I don't buy that the Earth is 6,000 years old. If you're talking about the Young Earth Theory, Christian scientists came to that conclusion by taking Jesus' time (assuming it was year 0) and working backward using the genealogy chart in Matthew and counting the years that way. The problem is that, when the chart says "X, the son of Y", they took that literally. "Son" back then was also used like descendent today, sort of like how we often use "couple" when we mean a group. The genealogy chart didn't go through all generations, only the landmark ones. It's an incomplete list.

Me, Grimlock! wrote:Hadn't thought that about the giraffe. You're right. I'll have to look it up to see what we think happened.

Dead Metal wrote:Same with the bombardier beetle, who says it had those chemicals in it during it's first evolutionary step?

Not really with you on this one. No one says they had to have those chemicals during their first evolutionary step, but whenever they did acquire the last one, that's when the problem would happen.

Scientists have said that human DNA is so complex that we would take 100 times the age of the Earth for DNA to evolve to the point it is right now. I've also heard that, for the Earth to become what it is today, it would have needed much more time than what scientists think is its age (can't remember how long it would need).

There are also scientists that state all facts lead to the earth being no older than 6.000 years.....

I don't buy that the Earth is 6,000 years old. If you're talking about the Young Earth Theory, Christian scientists came to that conclusion by taking Jesus' time (assuming it was year 0) and working backward using the genealogy chart in Matthew and counting the years that way. The problem is that, when the chart says "X, the son of Y", they took that literally. "Son" back then was also used like descendent today, sort of like how we often use "couple" when we mean a group. The genealogy chart didn't go through all generations, only the landmark ones. It's an incomplete list.

[/quote]
I can't really talk about biology as I never had that at school propper so I'm in the act of reading up on it so the bombardier beetle baffles me as well, there must be some book that could give some sort of explanation of how the beetle might have got the chemicals in the first place.

And that with the 6,000 years came from a documentary called "The Genius of Darwin" that aired on Channel4 last year in the UK. It was about evolution and how it's being ignored and being fought by the US educational system, the Church and lots of Christian groups in general. And they interviewed a real scientist who actually teaches at a University and he stated that considering all scientific facts the world can be no older than 6 to 10 thousand years at the maximum I loled hard at him and his petty arguments .
You should try and see it, it's a pretty awesome series and seeing some of those people is pretty hilarious, especially considering that some of them have a look on their face that just says "I don't even believe in the BS I just said".
But you might see it as pretty one sided but that's the whole point of the show.

Dead Metal wrote:And they interviewed a real scientist who actually teaches at a University and he stated that considering all scientific facts the world can be no older than 6 to 10 thousand years at the maximum

I don't know how old the planet is, so I won't even try and slap a number on it, but here's something to think about...

IF (IF!) the world is 6-10,000 years old, what does that say for us? We sure do know how to tear the crap out of the world around us, eh?