The Energon Pub

Senor Hugo wrote:Currently I'm a student working on my Bachelors degree, and working at a tv station.

Then your opinion on the matter is pretty much without basis.

You are neither in a position to be affected by the pending financial problems nor are you in a position to see just how far it will hurt the basic economic processes in the United States.

See if your opinions on the matter change when Federal funding for student aid start to be drawn back or if the interest rates rise to the point where the option just isn't all that sound.

no the government has to bail them out, or it would just end up with numerous business forclosures which puts more people out of work, and residential forclosures that makes them homeless and unemployed, which means the goverment now has to pay them benefits, and cover their medical costs, or not and increase the number of people unable to work through illness, which hurts business, and as these poor unemployed sick people are probably not going to be able to afford to send their kids to college, either the govenment has to pay or they don't go which means you country's workforce becomes less educated and less skilled. which means if they do get a job it will pay less and the government will make less tax revenue off their income decreasing the amount of benefits the government can pay out, or raise taxes, both of which will just make them poorer,

so yeah it's a rock or hard place situation, but it's a socialist move to prevent a socialist future

I'm a freshman in college, but even I can see that a "just desserts" punishment will only screw everyone. If something is'nt done soon, then we're literally looking at a depresssion on a world wide scale.

I think I see things differently because I've been able to see how the economic crisis has affected my dad's business. There's been a lack of income and the only reason I'm even able to get to and from school is from some grants I earned along with my scholarship. I'm trying my best to get through without loans and I know that if we continue the way we're going then grants and scholarships will be a thing of the past.

While yes, not doing the bailout would screw everyone.

Isn't there a better option than rewarding the banks who screwed us over in the first place?

What about giving that money to anyone over 18. Divvy it up amongst the people, the amount would be enough to get most people out of debt, and the rest would flow back into the economy anyway since people would be spending more.

Or am I wrong in this thinking?

Sounds good to me. In one email I got it was estimated that every family would recieve about 100,000 dollars. Hmmmm I live in a very affordable area so that would set me for life just about. I would love helping my local economy with that.

Senor Hugo wrote:While yes, not doing the bailout would screw everyone.

Isn't there a better option than rewarding the banks who screwed us over in the first place?

What about giving that money to anyone over 18. Divvy it up amongst the people, the amount would be enough to get most people out of debt, and the rest would flow back into the economy anyway since people would be spending more.

Or am I wrong in this thinking?

You are suggesting handing out trillions of dollars to the population of the country with the worst spending problem on the face of the Earth.

This is what would happen abouts:

*citizens get big fat checks from Uncle Sam

*not planning ahead, they buy a bunch of crap

*said crap is made by US companies who have all means of production in China.

*China and the American companies' executives make money

*common US citizen losses money.

*banks close, leading to tens of thousands of lost jobs

*Economy collapses

*Everyone is F'ed royally except the wealthiest of the wealthy and China.

I'll have to agree with the previous statement. It's best the money is used solely for the banks to be stabalized. I know 5 people off the top of my head that would burn through a $100,000 in a matter of hours.

Missourisnowflakes wrote:Sounds good to me. In one email I got it was estimated that every family would recieve about 100,000 dollars. Hmmmm I live in a very affordable area so that would set me for life just about. I would love helping my local economy with that.

"local economies" are supported my having access to banks and loans, not just customers. I cant sell you something without buying it first and if I dont have the cash sitting around then I need a bank. No banks, would mean less local businesses, decreasing competition while increasing demand. then prices would soar as a few companies would fix prices, and your 100k might last you a few years.

And this is not accounting for inflation. that alone would screw everyone as trillions of dollars are released into open circulation, possibly making ur 100k worth 10k by todays standards. Thats less than half of what I make now and no where near enough to live on and try to heroically personally jumpstart the economy

It did not pass, I am watching the senators all blame each other on the news right now.

This was government at it's absolute worst today. They all wanted it to pass, but voted no so their constituents would keep them in office. In fact it sounded like many voted no, because they thought there were enough yes votes. Now supposedly they are going to vote it in on Thursday to correct that mistake. Selfish bastards who have no understanding of the real world making decisions. I blame everyone in a political position and anyone making over 50 million a year.

So it was one of those

"Wait, you didn't vote yes? I thought you were going to vote yes!"
"You mean you didn't vote yes?"

moments?

And to OptimusNC1701, while you are right about the giving trillions to the people with the worst spending thing.

What I meant to convey, was an alternative to the bailout. Have we @#$%ed up so badly that the bailout is our only 'do or die' option? Or is there something else we can do that would achieve the same result but without screwing over the little guy?

Senor Hugo wrote:So it was one of those

"Wait, you didn't vote yes? I thought you were going to vote yes!"
"You mean you didn't vote yes?"

moments?

And to OptimusNC1701, while you are right about the giving trillions to the people with the worst spending thing.

What I meant to convey, was an alternative to the bailout. Have we @#$%ed up so badly that the bailout is our only 'do or die' option? Or is there something else we can do that would achieve the same result but without screwing over the little guy?

it's cyclic hugo, heliping one eventually helps the other, screwing one screws the other two.

remember one of the reasons this started was that a bunch of little guys defaulted on their mortgages, which buggers the banks, which buggers the little guys trying to get loans from the banks. yes the stock brokers got greedy and took a tumble, yes the banks are greedy and our out to rip you off, but isn't buying a house beyond your ability to pay for isn't exactly ungreedy either. but that's capitalism for you,

Tammuz wrote:

Senor Hugo wrote:So it was one of those

"Wait, you didn't vote yes? I thought you were going to vote yes!"
"You mean you didn't vote yes?"

moments?

And to OptimusNC1701, while you are right about the giving trillions to the people with the worst spending thing.

What I meant to convey, was an alternative to the bailout. Have we @#$%ed up so badly that the bailout is our only 'do or die' option? Or is there something else we can do that would achieve the same result but without screwing over the little guy?

it's cyclic hugo, heliping one eventually helps the other, screwing one screws the other two.

remember one of the reasons this started was that a bunch of little guys defaulted on their mortgages, which buggers the banks, which buggers the little guys trying to get loans from the banks. yes the stock brokers got greedy and took a tumble, yes the banks are greedy and our out to rip you off, but isn't buying a house beyond your ability to pay for isn't exactly ungreedy either. but that's capitalism for you,

It all started with deregulation, based on the assumption real estate will never drop.

Here's some quotes from MSNBC that I found funny/sad:

"The overriding question for congressional leaders was what to do next. Congress has been trying to adjourn so that its members can go out and campaign. "We are ready to continue to work on this," said Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., chairman of the House Financial Services Committee."

Frank said that was a remarkable accusation by Republicans against Republicans: "Because somebody hurt their feelings, they decided to punish the country."

Absolutely crazy.

Steve Forbes just said it best:

"The market lost more today than the bailout would have cost us."

^ oh great, first the stock market now a mod double posted. WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TO?????

Agh. I'm begging you. Please, for the love of all that is holy. Stop acting so retarded!

bumblebeerocks wrote:^ oh great, first the stock market now a mod double posted. WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TO?????

My post was an hour apart, if you keep up the spamming, you are going to get a warning.

I think this thread is a moot point because the bailout is dead. D-E-A-D.

The CURRENT bailout plan is a dead issue, but they will, no doubt, propose another one....hopefully one that can answer for where ALL the monies will go...The American people will settle for nothing less.....well, I can hope anyways!

As Rattrap from Beast Wars puts it... "We're all gonna die."

The government already tried the whole "lets give everyone fat checks and hopefully it'll fix things". Granted it wasn't that fat but like $300-$600 for every single person and $600-$1200 for every married couple, plus $300 for every child a married couple has. Me and my wife got $1200 and I bought a new TV... while I love my TV I regret it... I had debt that could of gone to and I'd be in much better shape now!

But everybody I know spend the money stupidly, and found themselves broke again in a month. Looking back it was a stupid idea and the government shouldn't of just handed people checks. Instead they should of maybe put that into the gas prices and brought gas down a dollar or helped finance the housing market, help people keep their houses, etc.

We are in one of the biggest messes of US history and its scary...

If I got $300,000 I would pay all my debts off (roughly $1500) and I would buy me house. I mean I would buy a house there would only be one, single, uno, payment when I give the owner the certified check for it. The rest would be used for new furniture and appliances.

It looks like it did not work.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081007/ap_ ... l_meltdown

Toronto Stock Exchange fell 1,185 points on monday.

Hello world-wide recession!

Reserve Bank of Australia cut official interest rates by a full 100 points (1%). The banks aren't going to pass it on in full, but they're gonna do more than if it was the .5% that had been expected.

And our economy ISN'T in the hole... yet.