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TurboMMaster wrote:We should seriously end this madness once and for all, so many plot holes, yet some are complaining about the one that they had created by themselfs. THE FALLEN CAN BE DEFEATED ONLY BY A PRIME (and he could lied about that), Optimus isn't The Fallen, there is no single hint that Optimus shares similiar power, then it's safe to say that he can be beaten by anyone (even if it's problematic, due to main protagonist's immunity). It's like with this "Optimus was affraid to use his power in Mission City" stuff: It exist only because some fans just can't accept the way it was, so they add something, even if it's against the facts in the movie.Evil_the_Nub wrote:Defeat yes, but anyone could sneak up on a Prime and stab them in the back. Similar to how only a Jedi could beat a Jedi, but a Clone Trooper could easily catch one off guard and take him out.
SKYWARPED_128 wrote:TurboMMaster wrote:We should seriously end this madness once and for all, so many plot holes, yet some are complaining about the one that they had created by themselfs. THE FALLEN CAN BE DEFEATED ONLY BY A PRIME (and he could lied about that), Optimus isn't The Fallen, there is no single hint that Optimus shares similiar power, then it's safe to say that he can be beaten by anyone (even if it's problematic, due to main protagonist's immunity). It's like with this "Optimus was affraid to use his power in Mission City" stuff: It exist only because some fans just can't accept the way it was, so they add something, even if it's against the facts in the movie.Evil_the_Nub wrote:Defeat yes, but anyone could sneak up on a Prime and stab them in the back. Similar to how only a Jedi could beat a Jedi, but a Clone Trooper could easily catch one off guard and take him out.
Suffice it to say, it started out as a cool idea but got too complicated for its own good. With the deadline looming, O&K and Kruger hardly had time to piece the story together, much less concretely explain how and why only a prime can defeat The Fallen.
I think the writers just meant to say that since Primes are regarded as the most powerful bots of their race, it thus takes a prime to kill a prime. I doubt it's meant to be word for word, although the poor choice of dialogue compounded the problem.
Ideally, it would have made more sense if a prime who wields the matrix were the only thing that could kill a Prime. The Fallen, ever cautious, tells Megatron to either find the matrix, or kill the only one who could wield it, namely Optimus, the last prime, so that there isn't even the slightest chance that The Fallen would be in danger.
It would also be sweet irony that killing Optimus actually set the sequence of events that would unite Optimus and the matrix; just like in Kungfu Panda 2 where the peacock seals his own prophesied fate by trying to prevent it.
But I guess such things only work in retrospect.
primematrix1986 wrote:TurboMMaster wrote:We should seriously end this madness once and for all, so many plot holes, yet some are complaining about the one that they had created by themselfs. THE FALLEN CAN BE DEFEATED ONLY BY A PRIME (and he could lied about that), Optimus isn't The Fallen, there is no single hint that Optimus shares similiar power, then it's safe to say that he can be beaten by anyone (even if it's problematic, due to main protagonist's immunity). It's like with this "Optimus was affraid to use his power in Mission City" stuff: It exist only because some fans just can't accept the way it was, so they add something, even if it's against the facts in the movie.Evil_the_Nub wrote:Defeat yes, but anyone could sneak up on a Prime and stab them in the back. Similar to how only a Jedi could beat a Jedi, but a Clone Trooper could easily catch one off guard and take him out.
Again, I am pulling facts from the movie. Not my personal fan fiction. As I said before, no movie is perfect, and I don't HATE ROTF...I just don't see how some people can LOVE the movie...the plot holes are way to vast. The ROTF Game had a better, and more simple plot than the movie...which, is pretty sad if you ask me.
primematrix1986 wrote:SKYWARPED_128 wrote:TurboMMaster wrote:We should seriously end this madness once and for all, so many plot holes, yet some are complaining about the one that they had created by themselfs. THE FALLEN CAN BE DEFEATED ONLY BY A PRIME (and he could lied about that), Optimus isn't The Fallen, there is no single hint that Optimus shares similiar power, then it's safe to say that he can be beaten by anyone (even if it's problematic, due to main protagonist's immunity). It's like with this "Optimus was affraid to use his power in Mission City" stuff: It exist only because some fans just can't accept the way it was, so they add something, even if it's against the facts in the movie.Evil_the_Nub wrote:Defeat yes, but anyone could sneak up on a Prime and stab them in the back. Similar to how only a Jedi could beat a Jedi, but a Clone Trooper could easily catch one off guard and take him out.
Suffice it to say, it started out as a cool idea but got too complicated for its own good. With the deadline looming, O&K and Kruger hardly had time to piece the story together, much less concretely explain how and why only a prime can defeat The Fallen.
I think the writers just meant to say that since Primes are regarded as the most powerful bots of their race, it thus takes a prime to kill a prime. I doubt it's meant to be word for word, although the poor choice of dialogue compounded the problem.
Ideally, it would have made more sense if a prime who wields the matrix were the only thing that could kill a Prime. The Fallen, ever cautious, tells Megatron to either find the matrix, or kill the only one who could wield it, namely Optimus, the last prime, so that there isn't even the slightest chance that The Fallen would be in danger.
It would also be sweet irony that killing Optimus actually set the sequence of events that would unite Optimus and the matrix; just like in Kungfu Panda 2 where the peacock seals his own prophesied fate by trying to prevent it.
But I guess such things only work in retrospect.
That's what I am saying, it was just bad timing in making the movie...it could have been WAY more better, but things just turned sour and REALLY left a bad taste in most peoples mouths...then when DOTM rolled around, it seemed people were STILL disgusted with ROTF, that it ruined the DOTM experience...that is my point.
Amen Brother!!!Just Negare wrote:Call me old fashioned, I just happen to think that movies should have a decent plot. Yeah yeah, end of the day its just a toy commercial, but did it need to be racist? Full of stupid potty jokes? Sex jokes? Have undies models who can't act their way out of a wet paper bag running around in pants that never get dirty?
It didn't give characters enough screen time to develop, it introduced too many elements of Transformers mythos and some made up stuff. The diaglouge was rough, the characters were OCC in parts, and Devastator having balls? What, is it only 12 year old boys seeing this thing? There was too much packed into too short a movie and seeing as it was like 2 and a half hours, that obviously tells you something about the way it was editted.
It was a terrible, terrible movie and Transformers fans should have no shame in being annoyed. I didn't ask my parents for money to go get a ticket, I had to go to work in a real job and do things most of you would be sick over, then I buy a ticket and the movie is rubbish. I get somewhat agreived when I waste money.
With that said, I've made peace with it now, its a terrible movie in a trilogy of movies where only 1/3rd was passable. It was made for a certain audience, it was made to make money, the first one made oddles so obviously Bay was going to have more leeway on calling the shots for 2 and 3. I'm hoping we can move beyond the abortion that was ROTF and the somewhat acceptable stench that was DOTM and have ourselves a clean slate.
Wanting giant robots kicking the snot out of other giant robots is fine and basically the gist of TFers, but I dont' think its too much to ask to not be racist, poorly paced, badly written.
And I don't see myself as being a "hater", I'm a huge fan of Transformers. I Love Transformers. That's why I rail against its name being so brutally violated.
primematrix1986 wrote:Again, I am pulling facts from the movie. Not my personal fan fiction.
There is really nothing more hereOnly a Prime can defeat ME
SlyTF1 wrote:primematrix1986 wrote:TurboMMaster wrote:We should seriously end this madness once and for all, so many plot holes, yet some are complaining about the one that they had created by themselfs. THE FALLEN CAN BE DEFEATED ONLY BY A PRIME (and he could lied about that), Optimus isn't The Fallen, there is no single hint that Optimus shares similiar power, then it's safe to say that he can be beaten by anyone (even if it's problematic, due to main protagonist's immunity). It's like with this "Optimus was affraid to use his power in Mission City" stuff: It exist only because some fans just can't accept the way it was, so they add something, even if it's against the facts in the movie.Evil_the_Nub wrote:Defeat yes, but anyone could sneak up on a Prime and stab them in the back. Similar to how only a Jedi could beat a Jedi, but a Clone Trooper could easily catch one off guard and take him out.
Again, I am pulling facts from the movie. Not my personal fan fiction. As I said before, no movie is perfect, and I don't HATE ROTF...I just don't see how some people can LOVE the movie...the plot holes are way to vast. The ROTF Game had a better, and more simple plot than the movie...which, is pretty sad if you ask me.
1. The forest fight
2. It has the greatest musical score of all time
3. It was probably like the second movie I ever saw where I actually gave a damn about the characters. It still is one of the only ones.
4. It actually gave the TFs personalities.
5. The Matrix of Leadership was a key point.
6. Seekers were mentioned.
7. The entire plot is based on an actual alien theory about the pyramids.
8. The scene on the Nemesis. Decepticons actually having a conversation with each other.
9. Megatron's badass look.
10. The movie wasn't as linear as the first.
Those are 10 reasons I like it as much as I do. There are more.
SKYWARPED_128 wrote:primematrix1986 wrote:SKYWARPED_128 wrote:TurboMMaster wrote:We should seriously end this madness once and for all, so many plot holes, yet some are complaining about the one that they had created by themselfs. THE FALLEN CAN BE DEFEATED ONLY BY A PRIME (and he could lied about that), Optimus isn't The Fallen, there is no single hint that Optimus shares similiar power, then it's safe to say that he can be beaten by anyone (even if it's problematic, due to main protagonist's immunity). It's like with this "Optimus was affraid to use his power in Mission City" stuff: It exist only because some fans just can't accept the way it was, so they add something, even if it's against the facts in the movie.Evil_the_Nub wrote:Defeat yes, but anyone could sneak up on a Prime and stab them in the back. Similar to how only a Jedi could beat a Jedi, but a Clone Trooper could easily catch one off guard and take him out.
Suffice it to say, it started out as a cool idea but got too complicated for its own good. With the deadline looming, O&K and Kruger hardly had time to piece the story together, much less concretely explain how and why only a prime can defeat The Fallen.
I think the writers just meant to say that since Primes are regarded as the most powerful bots of their race, it thus takes a prime to kill a prime. I doubt it's meant to be word for word, although the poor choice of dialogue compounded the problem.
Ideally, it would have made more sense if a prime who wields the matrix were the only thing that could kill a Prime. The Fallen, ever cautious, tells Megatron to either find the matrix, or kill the only one who could wield it, namely Optimus, the last prime, so that there isn't even the slightest chance that The Fallen would be in danger.
It would also be sweet irony that killing Optimus actually set the sequence of events that would unite Optimus and the matrix; just like in Kungfu Panda 2 where the peacock seals his own prophesied fate by trying to prevent it.
But I guess such things only work in retrospect.
That's what I am saying, it was just bad timing in making the movie...it could have been WAY more better, but things just turned sour and REALLY left a bad taste in most peoples mouths...then when DOTM rolled around, it seemed people were STILL disgusted with ROTF, that it ruined the DOTM experience...that is my point.
Very true. Although in my case, I looked at DOTM from an objective point of view and enjoyed it for the vast improvement that it was.
It did make me much more cautious with my expectations, though.
At the end of the day, it's just a movie, and I personally don't want to get too emotionally invested in it. TF movies, just like collecting figures, are something that's meant to entertain me, not give me grief or piss me off. The moment it stops being fun for me, I take a step back and invest my time in something else.
ROTF was one of those things where the blind hate and defense heaped on it put me off to the point where I started going into other franchises for a while. DOTM brought a bit of balance and neutrality back to the movies again, and I came back.
While I doubt people will ever stop discussing ROTF, at least the fire's gone down a little, so to speak.
TurboMMaster wrote:Amen Brother!!!Just Negare wrote:Call me old fashioned, I just happen to think that movies should have a decent plot. Yeah yeah, end of the day its just a toy commercial, but did it need to be racist? Full of stupid potty jokes? Sex jokes? Have undies models who can't act their way out of a wet paper bag running around in pants that never get dirty?
It didn't give characters enough screen time to develop, it introduced too many elements of Transformers mythos and some made up stuff. The diaglouge was rough, the characters were OCC in parts, and Devastator having balls? What, is it only 12 year old boys seeing this thing? There was too much packed into too short a movie and seeing as it was like 2 and a half hours, that obviously tells you something about the way it was editted.
It was a terrible, terrible movie and Transformers fans should have no shame in being annoyed. I didn't ask my parents for money to go get a ticket, I had to go to work in a real job and do things most of you would be sick over, then I buy a ticket and the movie is rubbish. I get somewhat agreived when I waste money.
With that said, I've made peace with it now, its a terrible movie in a trilogy of movies where only 1/3rd was passable. It was made for a certain audience, it was made to make money, the first one made oddles so obviously Bay was going to have more leeway on calling the shots for 2 and 3. I'm hoping we can move beyond the abortion that was ROTF and the somewhat acceptable stench that was DOTM and have ourselves a clean slate.
Wanting giant robots kicking the snot out of other giant robots is fine and basically the gist of TFers, but I dont' think its too much to ask to not be racist, poorly paced, badly written.
And I don't see myself as being a "hater", I'm a huge fan of Transformers. I Love Transformers. That's why I rail against its name being so brutally violated.primematrix1986 wrote:Again, I am pulling facts from the movie. Not my personal fan fiction.
The Fact is, Fallen claims that he can't be beaten by non-Prime.There is really nothing more hereOnly a Prime can defeat ME
primematrix1986 wrote:SlyTF1 wrote:primematrix1986 wrote:TurboMMaster wrote:We should seriously end this madness once and for all, so many plot holes, yet some are complaining about the one that they had created by themselfs. THE FALLEN CAN BE DEFEATED ONLY BY A PRIME (and he could lied about that), Optimus isn't The Fallen, there is no single hint that Optimus shares similiar power, then it's safe to say that he can be beaten by anyone (even if it's problematic, due to main protagonist's immunity). It's like with this "Optimus was affraid to use his power in Mission City" stuff: It exist only because some fans just can't accept the way it was, so they add something, even if it's against the facts in the movie.Evil_the_Nub wrote:Defeat yes, but anyone could sneak up on a Prime and stab them in the back. Similar to how only a Jedi could beat a Jedi, but a Clone Trooper could easily catch one off guard and take him out.
Again, I am pulling facts from the movie. Not my personal fan fiction. As I said before, no movie is perfect, and I don't HATE ROTF...I just don't see how some people can LOVE the movie...the plot holes are way to vast. The ROTF Game had a better, and more simple plot than the movie...which, is pretty sad if you ask me.
1. The forest fight
2. It has the greatest musical score of all time
3. It was probably like the second movie I ever saw where I actually gave a damn about the characters. It still is one of the only ones.
4. It actually gave the TFs personalities.
5. The Matrix of Leadership was a key point.
6. Seekers were mentioned.
7. The entire plot is based on an actual alien theory about the pyramids.
8. The scene on the Nemesis. Decepticons actually having a conversation with each other.
9. Megatron's badass look.
10. The movie wasn't as linear as the first.
Those are 10 reasons I like it as much as I do. There are more.
I agree with most of those, but again...I never said I HATE ROTF, I just think it was really bad...I liked some things in it, but how were the Transformers personalities enhanced? Sideways was gone in a minute. Demolisher was gone in a minute. Sideswipe had a few lines. Jolt was barely seen or acknowledged. The three girls were seen that well. The first movie you got to actually SEE the Transformers. Got to hear them talk. They had proper introductions.
primematrix1986 wrote:That's something that never made sense to me. Why some fans get so depressed over it...I mean, I am sixteen years old. Again, I liked ROTF. It was entertaining, but it was still a bad movie. Its like the Resident Evil movies, they are entertaining...but lately they have sucked in my opinion. I didn't even really mean for this to turn into an ROTF rant, I was just saying that I think ROTF ruined it for several people.
SlyTF1 wrote:Optimus, Megatron, Starscream, The Fallen, Mudflap, and Skids all had more screen time by themselves than the entire first movie had TFs. They only talked in about two or three scenes in the first movie. Even Bumblebee's personality was a bit more apparent in ROTF.
Evil_the_Nub wrote:primematrix1986 wrote:- The story of the Original 13 weren't even explained in G1, so I wasn't referring to that. Funny, because the ROTF video game said Original 13 primes. Yes, the game and movie has some differences, but its still the same universe.
No it's not. The games, comics, and novels are different versions of the same story.
He made a movie series that is a total garbage when compared to Predacons Rising...Burn wrote:What exactly did Michael Bay have to do with Predacons Rising?
SlyTF1 wrote:Yesterday, I watched TF1 for the first time in years. I was bored out of my mind. Then, I watched the opening of ROTF. The Shanghai scene alone is better than the entire first movie. So, keep ROTF.
Dagon wrote:SlyTF1 wrote:Yesterday, I watched TF1 for the first time in years. I was bored out of my mind. Then, I watched the opening of ROTF. The Shanghai scene alone is better than the entire first movie. So, keep ROTF.
Funnily enough, a few weeks ago I put ROTF on with the intention of skipping to the 'good parts'. After a few minutes I realized it was too much work and too boring of a project, so I put on the first movie and enjoyed it from start to finish.
It's like we have some kind of mirrored existence going on!
Dagon wrote:Evil_the_Nub wrote:primematrix1986 wrote:- The story of the Original 13 weren't even explained in G1, so I wasn't referring to that. Funny, because the ROTF video game said Original 13 primes. Yes, the game and movie has some differences, but its still the same universe.
No it's not. The games, comics, and novels are different versions of the same story.
This is utterly ridiculous. How is it possible to have a movie whose accompanying media is ALL a different version of the events of the movie that they accompany?
As a completely serious question, are there other examples of fictions where this happens? I don't mean like a reboot or an alternate universe kind of thing, and not Rashomon where at least it's an actual part of the story. I mean a story where all of the attendant parts are different versions of the main narrative, and it is not as much of a reach as this explanation for ROTF.
NewFoundStarscreamLuv wrote:me and my friends combine all the time. Sometimes I even combine by myself if no one is around.
Evil_the_Nub wrote:Dagon wrote:Evil_the_Nub wrote:primematrix1986 wrote:- The story of the Original 13 weren't even explained in G1, so I wasn't referring to that. Funny, because the ROTF video game said Original 13 primes. Yes, the game and movie has some differences, but its still the same universe.
No it's not. The games, comics, and novels are different versions of the same story.
This is utterly ridiculous. How is it possible to have a movie whose accompanying media is ALL a different version of the events of the movie that they accompany?
As a completely serious question, are there other examples of fictions where this happens? I don't mean like a reboot or an alternate universe kind of thing, and not Rashomon where at least it's an actual part of the story. I mean a story where all of the attendant parts are different versions of the main narrative, and it is not as much of a reach as this explanation for ROTF.
Spider-Man 2. The video game was totally different from the movie it was based on. He never lost his powers, he teamed up with Black Cat, and there were more villains than Doctor Octopus.
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